NRA responce, really?

[riverroyal]

"the only way to fight bad guys with guys is with good guys with guns" Wow. Even if you are a member and supporter of this you have to think this was a joke. 1/3 of all schools have armed guards. Columbine had armed guards, how did that work out?
If you want a gun great, I dont care.
The problem is the lack of mental health care. I lived it for 6 years with my crazy/ sick/ mental/ scary neighbor, he is 40ish. the sheriff was here over 50 times is 6 years. he threatend to kill me and family dozens of times, he tried to open my doors, my windows, you name it. I got a retraining order, had him arrested 4 times. He kept coming back.
Sheriff told me every time, "sorry he has more rights than you do, he doesnt know what he is doing". really? i had multiple sheriffs tell me " you didnt hear this from me, but a little street justice goes a long way" really? Then I go to jail if i do that since Im normal.
Finally being threaten multiple times in 1 day, he actually threatened me while the sheriff was in my driveway. arrested again. I took 6 years of documents to the sheriff station. They were suprised that this had gone on so long, really?? Bull shit. They dont want to deal with it, they cant deal with it. Until he snaps or commites a violent crime he has rights you and I dont have. After 6 years my paperwork made it to the DA's desk, the calls and meetings started. My family received a CRIMINAL restraining order, totally different from a typical one. He stayed in jail until a "bed" opened up at a facility, which is located downtown SD. He is free to wander the streets and ruin other peoples life, which Im sure he is.
thats how the SYSTEM works. There is NO system, the problems are just moved, not solved. There is no place for mentally disturbed people, there is no hospital anymore to send these people, no imaginary movies mental wards.
Stopping guns sales cures nothing. Its to late for that. helping or hospitalizing "crazy" people is a legal snafu nobody will touch.
Take a distrubed kid, sit him in front of violent movies, tv and video game and surprise they snap at some point.


Why did I take time to type this? well I believe the gun happy doomsdayers are spending all their time and effort complaining the government is taking away theirs rights when the problem isnt guns at all. Its lack of help for messed up brains.
past generations were doomdayers also, cold war, remember? We just never had the media to fill our heads with fear that a individual might need another gun to add to the 20 they already have.
My guess is if you are affraid your guns will be taken away , you probably have enough guns!
Maybe spend a a fraction of the time wasted on complaining about the government and guns and use a fraction of that time pushing for a solution to the lack of mental health care in this country, thats the real problem.


By the way, I dont own a gun. If I did my sick neighbor would have been shot, then id be in jail and not able to type this:rolleyes

 

[Ziggy]

"the only way to fight bad guys with guys is with good guys with guns" Wow. Even if you are a member and supporter of this you have to think this was a joke. 1/3 of all schools have armed guards. Columbine had armed guards, how did that work out?
If you want a gun great, I dont care.
The problem is the lack of mental health care. I lived it for 6 years with my crazy/ sick/ mental/ scary neighbor, he is 40ish. the sheriff was here over 50 times is 6 years. he threatend to kill me and family dozens of times, he tried to open my doors, my windows, you name it. I got a retraining order, had him arrested 4 times. He kept coming back.
Sheriff told me every time, "sorry he has more rights than you do, he doesnt know what he is doing". really? i had multiple sheriffs tell me " you didnt hear this from me, but a little street justice goes a long way" really? Then I go to jail if i do that since Im normal.
Finally being threaten multiple times in 1 day, he actually threatened me while the sheriff was in my driveway. arrested again. I took 6 years of documents to the sheriff station. They were suprised that this had gone on so long, really?? Bull shit. They dont want to deal with it, they cant deal with it. Until he snaps or commites a violent crime he has rights you and I dont have. After 6 years my paperwork made it to the DA's desk, the calls and meetings started. My family received a CRIMINAL restraining order, totally different from a typical one. He stayed in jail until a "bed" opened up at a facility, which is located downtown SD. He is free to wander the streets and ruin other peoples life, which Im sure he is.
thats how the SYSTEM works. There is NO system, the problems are just moved, not solved. There is no place for mentally disturbed people, there is no hospital anymore to send these people, no imaginary movies mental wards.
Stopping guns sales cures nothing. Its to late for that. helping or hospitalizing "crazy" people is a legal snafu nobody will touch.
Take a distrubed kid, sit him in front of violent movies, tv and video game and surprise they snap at some point.


Why did I take time to type this? well I believe the gun happy doomsdayers are spending all their time and effort complaining the government is taking away theirs rights when the problem isnt guns at all. Its lack of help for messed up brains.
past generations were doomdayers also, cold war, remember? We just never had the media to fill our heads with fear that a individual might need another gun to add to the 20 they already have.
My guess is if you are affraid your guns will be taken away , you probably have enough guns!
Maybe spend a a fraction of the time wasted on complaining about the government and guns and use a fraction of that time pushing for a solution to the lack of mental health care in this country, thats the real problem.


By the way, I dont own a gun. If I did my sick neighbor would have been shot, then id be in jail and not able to type this:rolleyes

While I agree with you 100% on the mentally ill not getting the help they need I can't help but wonder why he had access to guns at all...yes his mom took him with her, blah, blah, blah but IMHO a gun should never be allowed in a household with a mentally disabled person..period. Did she lie on application to get one or were there some facts ignored by officials?
No matter how you shake it it's a travesty for everyone. The debate will never end.

 

[DRYHEAT]

Thank the ACLU for crazy people not being "helped" until they hurt someone first. Its OK for nut jobs to have rights but not the average joe to live in peace.:grumble:

 

[Carlson-jet]

riverroyal,

There wasn't an armed guard present during the attack at Columbine. This is a false Talking point being spread by MSM with no merit.

I agree about the rest.

Of all the places I have lived I can say without a doubt, S.D. county (East county in particular) had far too many wackjobs. Although most were harmless, the endless freak show made me wonder why/how such a nice place could end up with a disportionate amount of them.

I have found that the government has deliberatly set out to stop me from protecting myself. Now that the S.C. has determined that the police are not there and have no obligation to protect me or anyone else, I consider them an extra expense I could do without. This includes Federal, State and local. It is tough enough to defend ones self against assholes on the street, let alone those who have been given authority to make almost any situation worse.

 

[Tinkerer]

River - If the teachers or principal had guns the PUKE never would have gotten at the children
You can't stop a whack job with laws. He broke a bunch of laws just being there.
Gun free zones just guarantee there won't be any real oposition.
There isn't any real differance between an AR - 15 and ANY other semi auto riffle. They just LOOK like a military riffle.
What if he had a pistol or machette. Whack job in Russia used a knife on the kids.

 

[JB in so cal]

RDP guest commentator:grumble:

Next issue: ford vs Chevy.....Go!

 

[Carlson-jet]

RDP guest commentator:grumble:

Next issue: ford vs Chevy.....Go!

As many, including you, RR is a respected memeber who has been on the boards for a long time now. I value his opinion along with many others on RD's and the string of boating boards past and present.

On Rd's you will get a much better response on Trailer tires... Carlisle killed my dog.. Blah blah blah.

 

[JDKRXW]

River - If the teachers or principal had guns the PUKE never would have gotten at the children
.

Teachers in public schools in the US are generally paid shit.
http://www.teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state
.... and you're going to ask them to carry, and become armed guards to boot as a part of their jobs????

 

[92562]

I personally know teachers with CCWs that would happily step up to do this if it were allowed. As for the mental health issue, the drugs are the real problem. Every school "mass murderer" since the 90's was on antidepressants or a combination of them. After Columbine there was a news story on this and it was shocking. "Mood stabilizers" and anti depressants have proven more times than not to increase violent behavior and "amnesia" in a large percentage of those who take them. Not sure what the solution is for this but if they are coming into schools to kill, they need to be stopped.

 

[HPBoats83]

I believe that the mental health issue is a big issue that hasn't been addressed by enough people. One "easier" approach to help with the problem could be a little more leniency with CCW's in the sense of allowing law abbiding citizens who can pass a competency test and prove they are competent to carry.

 

[BigQ]

"the only way to fight bad guys with guys is with good guys with guns" Wow. Even if you are a member and supporter of this you have to think this was a joke. 1/3 of all schools have armed guards. Columbine had armed guards, how did that work out?
If you want a gun great, I dont care.
The problem is the lack of mental health care. I lived it for 6 years with my crazy/ sick/ mental/ scary neighbor, he is 40ish. the sheriff was here over 50 times is 6 years. he threatend to kill me and family dozens of times, he tried to open my doors, my windows, you name it. I got a retraining order, had him arrested 4 times. He kept coming back.
Sheriff told me every time, "sorry he has more rights than you do, he doesnt know what he is doing". really? i had multiple sheriffs tell me " you didnt hear this from me, but a little street justice goes a long way" really? Then I go to jail if i do that since Im normal.
Finally being threaten multiple times in 1 day, he actually threatened me while the sheriff was in my driveway. arrested again. I took 6 years of documents to the sheriff station. They were suprised that this had gone on so long, really?? Bull shit. They dont want to deal with it, they cant deal with it. Until he snaps or commites a violent crime he has rights you and I dont have. After 6 years my paperwork made it to the DA's desk, the calls and meetings started. My family received a CRIMINAL restraining order, totally different from a typical one. He stayed in jail until a "bed" opened up at a facility, which is located downtown SD. He is free to wander the streets and ruin other peoples life, which Im sure he is.
thats how the SYSTEM works. There is NO system, the problems are just moved, not solved. There is no place for mentally disturbed people, there is no hospital anymore to send these people, no imaginary movies mental wards.
Stopping guns sales cures nothing. Its to late for that. helping or hospitalizing "crazy" people is a legal snafu nobody will touch.
Take a distrubed kid, sit him in front of violent movies, tv and video game and surprise they snap at some point.


Why did I take time to type this? well I believe the gun happy doomsdayers are spending all their time and effort complaining the government is taking away theirs rights when the problem isnt guns at all. Its lack of help for messed up brains.
past generations were doomdayers also, cold war, remember? We just never had the media to fill our heads with fear that a individual might need another gun to add to the 20 they already have.
My guess is if you are affraid your guns will be taken away , you probably have enough guns!
Maybe spend a a fraction of the time wasted on complaining about the government and guns and use a fraction of that time pushing for a solution to the lack of mental health care in this country, thats the real problem.


By the way, I dont own a gun. If I did my sick neighbor would have been shot, then id be in jail and not able to type this:rolleyes

You're painting with a broad brush based on your experience. Your situation is the extreme, most with mental issues are not going on a rampage. With that said though, based on statistic we should ban alcohol and all drugs. Substance abuse is a huge percentage of violence, which is classified as a mental illness.

Who is ready to rise up against alcohol !! oh wait we tried that....

I have some bad news for some of you. If you want a free society sometimes bad things will happen. People control is one key to managing violence along with self respect for yourself and the community at large. We need more "Harakiri."

 

[92562]

You're painting with a broad brush based on your experience. Your situation is the extreme, most with mental issues are not going on a rampage. With that said though, based on statistic we should ban alcohol and all drugs. Substance abuse is a huge percentage of violence, which is classified as a mental illness.

Who is ready to rise up against alcohol !! oh wait we tried that....

I have some bad news for some of you. If you want a free society sometimes bad things will happen. People control is one key to managing violence along with self respect for yourself and the community at large. We need more "Harakiri."

I agree with the people control; however, alcohol and street drugs make up 0% of the "mass murder" profile. Alcohol and drugs do cause some people to lash out violently at individuals (or get really happy, then stupid, then pass out...repeat as necessary). The vast majority of mass shootings that have taken place in the last 20 years have been people on prescription drugs; that is the common thread. Now, the vast majority of people on psych drugs have no issues, but the few that get the side effects have issues. Many drugs we all take have side effects of nausea, rash, etc. Many psych drugs have on the side effect list: suicidal tendencies, violent outbursts, loss of memory, and rage. To make matters worse, many of these drugs are prescribed in a cocktail together.

Again, not blaming drugs but blaming how they are prescribed and monitored. Too many people end up living on drugs rather than using them to get "over the hump" until therapy and life changes take over.

 

[Gramps]

I think mental health is a huge issue that Obama and his pals want to sweep under the rug. They (the Obama group) cannot see that gun restrictions are not the answer. They need to look at the cause not the tool used by the perpetrator. The NRA saw that the Obama bunch have been going around yelling and screaming about how terrible (it was) this incident was but they are not offering any real solutions. The NRA at least has offered what they think may be a solution or at least a step in the right direction...............Safeguard our children. Obama has not offered any way to protect our kids. I think the NRA hit it on the head when they gave examples of how we guard sporting events, our money our personal property our government officials but not our schools. I'm not saying an armed teacher is the answer, but I do like the idea of an armed certified professional that is trained to protect and kill any perpetrator if necessary.

To me the fix, in a nut shell is:
#1 identify and fix the root of the problem, not the tools used.
#2 protect our children in at least the same manner we protect our money and our elected officials
#3 stop the media and press using their fountain of misinformation, it seems the majority of them do not know the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground. ex: 223/5.56 is a heavy powerful round, an AR15 is an automatic ....PLEASE

Last thought, if the feds and the idiots that are in charge of New York state and city and the Feinstein bitch think they are going to come into our homes and take away our guns they should realize they will be starting the largest civil war the globe has ever seen.

 

[thmterry]

This guy didn't use a gun to kill people. He used a car, it is the mental problem not the tool that kills people.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/05/local/la-me-attias-20120905

David Attias, driver who plowed into crowd, to leave mental hospital
Judge says the self-described UC Santa Barbara 'angel of death' should be moved to a less restrictive facility because he has made progress.

A Santa Barbara judge has ruled that David Attias, who in 2001 declared he was the "angel of death" after killing four pedestrians and severely injuring a fifth, should be transferred from Patton State Hospital to a less restrictive outpatient program.

Attias, then a student at UC Santa Barbara, was charged with murder after deliberately plowing his car into a crowd on an Isla Vista street. A jury in 2002 found him legally insane.

 

[2Driver]

If people move into a newly built house and it turns out to be full of problems, most people would blame the builder and ask why and how this could come about. No one would rank making hammers illegal as the 1st priority.

Almost non-existant in this solution seems a real desire to get to the core of why people do this and how to keep them from attempting to do it. In typical US politics, officals place little importance on truly solving problems but rather ensure their image as appearing to be doing so.

As for the NRA speech. What an frickin dinosour. Do these guys live in the same world as us and do they understand public comment, image and how to formulate a reasonable position. BTW: Bought 2 AR's and 4 30 mags in the past few weeks. :thumbsup

 

[TPC]

"We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." ~Ronald Reagan~

 

[U4ia]

riverroyal,

There wasn't an armed guard present during the attack at Columbine. This is a false Talking point being spread by MSM with no merit.

I agree about the rest.

Of all the places I have lived I can say without a doubt, S.D. county (East county in particular) had far too many wackjobs. Although most were harmless, the endless freak show made me wonder why/how such a nice place could end up with a disportionate amount of them.

I have found that the government has deliberatly set out to stop me from protecting myself. Now that the S.C. has determined that the police are not there and have no obligation to protect me or anyone else, I consider them an extra expense I could do without. This includes Federal, State and local. It is tough enough to defend ones self against assholes on the street, let alone those who have been given authority to make almost any situation worse.

You are correct, it was not an armed guard, it was a police officer. He was assigned to the school and when the shooting started, he was off campus monitoring a popular teen hangout a block away for truants. He returned to the school at once, at this point 11 of the 13 victims were still alive, and fired 4 shots at one of the shooters. ALL 4 SHOTS MISSED. Following the policy in effect at the time he then called for backup and was then pushed onto the sidelines by the SWAT team.
A few years back there was a shooting on the Observation Deck of the Empire State Building where 9 bystanders were shot by NYPD officers responding to the call. If these guys with all their training couldn't hit their target what hope do a bunch of half-trained teachers and custodians have? And who pays when one of them misses the gunman and kills or paralyzes your child instead? Who pays for the training? Who pays to train and post guards in private schools, Christian Academies, etc?

Just remember: for every complex problem, there is a simple, easy to understand answer.........that is just plain wrong. This is one of those ideas.

Regarding mental health screening and treatment, how much more taxes would you be willing to pay? Or how much of what programs would you cut to get the money? Maybe a tax on ammunition or arms, to reflect the societal cost of them, like tobacco or alcohol. Let the smokers pay for the PSA's against tobacco and let the shooters pay for the mental health bills or the cost of the guards. Sort of a user fee and if you don't shoot much it won't cost much. After all 20% of gun owners own 80% of all guns. Some folks have a dozen or more weapons, but most people keep a pistol for protection and maybe a rifle or shotgun for hunting. For most such a tax would be negligible..... Only the guys who burn through a ton of ammo or buy a new weapon every couple of months would get hit. You might not like this, but do not be surprised if something like this happens.

 

[riverroyal]

Thanks for the posts everyone.


As far as Ford Vs Chevy, really, thats just a stupid question. My new F350 6.7 diesel is the best truck Ive ever owned.


I have 2 kids in school, I just dont think having a person carrying a gun is a good idea. Children already have a false idea about guns. That they are 'no big deal' They are on TV, in movies, games a based on them. Put them in schools and they will think owning or carrying a gun is OK. Which it is, with the proper training and responcibility that comes with it. Plus, the perps that want to kill will then just go to the mall, or a park, where ever the gun carrying security isnt.
Again, it just pushes the problem under the rug.
I understand the NRA not wanting their guns taken away or limited, Im fine with that. You never know when a zombie attack is gonna happen and you cant get your bunker thats 200 miles away in the woods.

How about the gov puts the military in schools. Maybe a dressed out Marine, it could be his or hers jobs. 1 week a month in school. There will be plenty of soldiers coming home soon. They can go to the schools, maybe even speak to the kids. Make them feel good about our troops while standing watch on the school.


have a great christmas everybody, be safe, hug your kids. Im off to havasu for 5,6,7,8 days. The schedule, no plans. Just relaxing and maybe a few cocktails:rolleyes

 

[JB in so cal]

Fag:rolleyes

 

[Ziggy]

As many, including you, RR is a respected memeber who has been on the boards for a long time now. I value his opinion along with many others on RD's and the string of boating boards past and present.

On Rd's you will get a much better response on Trailer tires... Carlisle killed my dog.. Blah blah blah.

Easy there CJ........JB and RR are practically bed buddies..he was just tuggin his wanker a bit

 

[HotRod82]

"the only way to fight bad guys with guys is with good guys with guns" Wow. Even if you are a member and supporter of this you have to think this was a joke. 1/3 of all schools have armed guards. Columbine had armed guards, how did that work out?
If you want a gun great, I dont care.
The problem is the lack of mental health care. I lived it for 6 years with my crazy/ sick/ mental/ scary neighbor, he is 40ish. the sheriff was here over 50 times is 6 years. he threatend to kill me and family dozens of times, he tried to open my doors, my windows, you name it. I got a retraining order, had him arrested 4 times. He kept coming back.
Sheriff told me every time, "sorry he has more rights than you do, he doesnt know what he is doing". really? i had multiple sheriffs tell me " you didnt hear this from me, but a little street justice goes a long way" really? Then I go to jail if i do that since Im normal.
Finally being threaten multiple times in 1 day, he actually threatened me while the sheriff was in my driveway. arrested again. I took 6 years of documents to the sheriff station. They were suprised that this had gone on so long, really?? Bull shit. They dont want to deal with it, they cant deal with it. Until he snaps or commites a violent crime he has rights you and I dont have. After 6 years my paperwork made it to the DA's desk, the calls and meetings started. My family received a CRIMINAL restraining order, totally different from a typical one. He stayed in jail until a "bed" opened up at a facility, which is located downtown SD. He is free to wander the streets and ruin other peoples life, which Im sure he is.
thats how the SYSTEM works. There is NO system, the problems are just moved, not solved. There is no place for mentally disturbed people, there is no hospital anymore to send these people, no imaginary movies mental wards.
Stopping guns sales cures nothing. Its to late for that. helping or hospitalizing "crazy" people is a legal snafu nobody will touch.
Take a distrubed kid, sit him in front of violent movies, tv and video game and surprise they snap at some point.


Why did I take time to type this? well I believe the gun happy doomsdayers are spending all their time and effort complaining the government is taking away theirs rights when the problem isnt guns at all. Its lack of help for messed up brains.
past generations were doomdayers also, cold war, remember? We just never had the media to fill our heads with fear that a individual might need another gun to add to the 20 they already have.
My guess is if you are affraid your guns will be taken away , you probably have enough guns!
Maybe spend a a fraction of the time wasted on complaining about the government and guns and use a fraction of that time pushing for a solution to the lack of mental health care in this country, thats the real problem.


By the way, I dont own a gun. If I did my sick neighbor would have been shot, then id be in jail and not able to type this:rolleyes

I agree with your position on the mental health issue, having a brother who is insane and has threatened to kill EVERYBODY ay one time or another. Unfortunately however you completely missed the point of the NRA speech. New laws, mental health programs, etc. DO NOTHING TO PROTECT THE KIDS TODAY, RIGHT NOW TODAY , while they are at school. We need to treat schools the same as ANY potential terrorist target. The first step to guarding anything is controlling access, then armed guards. Arming teachers is a stupid idea, the NRA suggested police officers which I agree with. WE NEED TO HARDEN THE TARGET RIGHT NOW TODAY. No plan will be foolproof but putting up a line of defense needs to be done right NOW. It is terribly sad we are even having this conversation, but while we are having it we need to physically protect the schools.

Sad but true story......Yesterday I was on a LARGE High School Campus, I walked into the UNLOCKED AND UNGUARDED front office and signed the visitors log. I could not help but think if I was a lunatic with my AR, I could have mowed down dozens if not hundreds of kids COMPLETELY UNCONTESTED. We need to do something about these soft targets TODAY.

 

[riverroyal]

Easy there CJ........JB and RR are practically bed buddies..he was just tuggin his wanker a bit

Gonna be a great summer
You know that homo is moving in next door to me at the islander?

 

[riverroyal]

I agree with your position on the mental health issue, having a brother who is insane and has threatened to kill EVERYBODY ay one time or another. Unfortunately however you completely missed the point of the NRA speech. New laws, mental health programs, etc. DO NOTHING TO PROTECT THE KIDS TODAY, RIGHT NOW TODAY , while they are at school. We need to treat schools the same as ANY potential terrorist target. The first step to guarding anything is controlling access, then armed guards. Arming teachers is a stupid idea, the NRA suggested police officers which I agree with. WE NEED TO HARDEN THE TARGET RIGHT NOW TODAY. No plan will be foolproof but putting up a line of defense needs to be done right NOW. It is terribly sad we are even having this conversation, but while we are having it we need to physically protect the schools.

Sad but true story......Yesterday I was on a LARGE High School Campus, I walked into the UNLOCKED AND UNGUARDED front office and signed the visitors log. I could not help but think if I was a lunatic with my AR, I could have mowed down dozens if not hundreds of kids COMPLETELY UNCONTESTED. We need to do something about these soft targets TODAY.

Something needs to happen in the next few weeks.

 

[CoolCruzin]

"

By the way, I dont own a gun. If I did my sick neighbor would have been shot, then id be in jail and not able to type this:rolleyes

Glad you don't have any guns. A bad way of thinking for gun ownership .It's all about our freedom and our Constitution ,not killing people.

 

[Ziggy]

Gonna be a great summer
You know that homo is moving in next door to me at the islander?

I heard the rumor mill grinding that nut a little while ago. It's about time and glad he's doing it.:thumbup::thumbup:
Hope he leaves that BrokeBack Meadows 'tude behind

 

[U4ia]

How about the gov puts the military in schools. Maybe a dressed out Marine, it could be his or hers jobs. 1 week a month in school. There will be plenty of soldiers coming home soon. They can go to the schools, maybe even speak to the kids. Make them feel good about our troops while standing watch on the school.

I do not believe that Regular Army troops can be deployed within the national borders without there being a declared State of Emergency. This allows for the suspension of certain constitutional rights, habeas corpus for example. I may be wrong, but I think it also permits the confiscation of private firearms for the "duration of the emergency". Is this what you want?

 

[Tinkerer]

U4ia - Half of the point is that IF the teachers had guns THEN more than likely the nut case wouldn't go there.
AND how many times did the cops shoot the bad guys without hitting any inocent bystanders.
If there no guns to defend then the bad guys have free reign.
How come we don't hear of all of the times that someone with a gun stoped a crime or killing spree.
It has happened recently - I believe the same day as the school shooting.

 

[Tom Brown]

There wasn't an armed guard present during the attack at Columbine. This is a false Talking point being spread by MSM with no merit.

... so you're saying the police account of Deputy Neil Gardner being assigned to the school and firing three shots into the library the day of the Columbine shootings in attempt to hit assailants is false and some sort of liberal cover-up? That sounds correct, since it does not support the argument of solving this issue with more guns.

This text suggests Deputy Neil Gardner was assigned to the school and was eating lunch in his car in the school parking when the Columbine event took place.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/DEPUTIES_TEXT.htm

Of course, it's probably just liberal lies if it doesn't support your philosophy.

 

[lalhc]

Having teachers carrying guns is not the solution. My wife is an educator, not an armed guard. She is a girlie, girl and has never held or owned a gun. I would have to guess that about 80% of the teachers in her district (probably 90% female) would feel the same. They already have enough crap to worry about teaching their students, no budgets, and growing class sizes.

 

[U4ia]

U4ia - Half of the point is that IF the teachers had guns THEN more than likely the nut case wouldn't go there.
AND how many times did the cops shoot the bad guys without hitting any inocent bystanders.
If there no guns to defend then the bad guys have free reign.
How come we don't hear of all of the times that someone with a gun stoped a crime or killing spree.
It has happened recently - I believe the same day as the school shooting.

Do you really want to see a bunch of left wing unionized teachers packing heat in your school? If they cannot be trusted not to teach our kids all about gay marriage, evolution and atheism, how can we trust them with deadly weapons? All of a sudden those lazy unionized socialist propagandizers are the good guys?

 

[U4ia]

Having teachers carrying guns is not the solution. My wife is an educator, not an armed guard. She is a girlie, girl and has never held or owned a gun. I would have to guess that about 80% of the teachers in her district (probably 90% female) would feel the same. They already have enough crap to worry about teaching their students, no budgets, and growing class sizes.

Well, since your wife already is expected to buy school supplies out of her paycheck it would be nice if you were the one to buy her gun for her....... You don't expect the taxpayer to pickup the tab for her teaching equipment do you? She should come to work with ALL of the tools she needs for her job and if nowadays that means a new Glock, than so be it.

 

[djunkie]

Having teachers carrying guns is not the solution. My wife is an educator, not an armed guard. She is a girlie, girl and has never held or owned a gun. I would have to guess that about 80% of the teachers in her district (probably 90% female) would feel the same. They already have enough crap to worry about teaching their students, no budgets, and growing class sizes.

My wife is in school to be a teacher. I just asked her if she'd be willing to carry in the classroom. Her answer was yes!!!!!! But then she explained how she didn't feel it would be a good idea cause of a few reasons. Not all teachers have the experience with guns as my wife has. Some teachers, in her opinion, are mentally unstable themselves so bad idea there. Then would be the problem of worrying about a student getting the gun from the teacher somehow. Me personally, I'd rather my wife have the gun and not need it then need it and not have it. But not all teachers are like her so I don't see it ever happening.


Sent from my iPad using Tap That Ass

 

[Duffster]

"We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." ~Ronald Reagan~

Fuck yes from America's last true president. Everyone going forward has been a stuffed shirt in my eyes.

 

[Tinkerer]

I did not say EVERY teacher had to carry - But the ones that would take the extra training and WANT to carry should be allowed.
If their were armed security and teachers I bet these shootings would all but stop.
What is so hard for you guys to understand. Not bright enough.
Maybe YOU need to go back to school.
Ranks right up there with raising taxes on people over 250,000 being good for the country. I bet the same people that don't see how good people having guns is a deturent to bad people doing evil - They are under the same belief that raising taxes on income over 250,000 won't cut employment.
DUH

 

[JB in so cal]

Gonna be a great summer
You know that homo is moving in next door to me at the islander?

Stick to the topic!

 

[djunkie]

I did not say EVERY teacher had to carry - But the ones that would take the extra training and WANT to carry should be allowed.
If their were armed security and teachers I bet these shootings would all but stop.
What is so hard for you guys to understand. Not bright enough.
Maybe YOU need to go back to school.
Ranks right up there with raising taxes on people over 250,000 being good for the country. I bet the same people that don't see how good people having guns is a deturent to bad people doing evil - They are under the same belief that raising taxes on income over 250,000 won't cut employment.
DUH

Amazing. LOL

 

[BigQ]

I agree with the people control; however, alcohol and street drugs make up 0% of the "mass murder" profile. Alcohol and drugs do cause some people to lash out violently at individuals (or get really happy, then stupid, then pass out...repeat as necessary). The vast majority of mass shootings that have taken place in the last 20 years have been people on prescription drugs; that is the common thread. Now, the vast majority of people on psych drugs have no issues, but the few that get the side effects have issues. Many drugs we all take have side effects of nausea, rash, etc. Many psych drugs have on the side effect list: suicidal tendencies, violent outbursts, loss of memory, and rage. To make matters worse, many of these drugs are prescribed in a cocktail together.

Again, not blaming drugs but blaming how they are prescribed and monitored. Too many people end up living on drugs rather than using them to get "over the hump" until therapy and life changes take over.

Mass murder yes, sad that it is more dramatic when people die in "mass", this is true. My point is more people die each year (about 3-5000) due to alcohol compared to firearms, so why are we not talking about banning alcohol? Maybe the way people die matters more? Or is it the kids. I will take a wild guess and say more have die violently in a drunk car accident then by mass gun shooting.

I am not sure what the answer is to all of this, but some of the arguments are just amazingly stupid.

I guess everything should be put out there on the table for discussion.

 

[Carlson-jet]

... so you're saying the police account of Deputy Neil Gardner being assigned to the school and firing three shots into the library the day of the Columbine shootings in attempt to hit assailants is false and some sort of liberal cover-up? That sounds correct, since it does not support the argument of solving this issue with more guns.

This text suggests Deputy Neil Gardner was assigned to the school and was eating lunch in his car in the school parking when the Columbine event took place.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/DEPUTIES_TEXT.htm

Of course, it's probably just liberal lies if it doesn't support your philosophy.

Thank you Tom for clearly stating my post. You see Tom, the police in this country are not responsible nor accountable for protecting anyone but themselves as decided by the Supreme court.

Is that feces holding your ears apart good for anything else but turning in to diarrhia upon my screen?

Do you really think the "Police department" that were over charging the school district and whom were not present during the first few minutes that made the difference between life and death would state otherwise? Do you think the POS news media could get an accurate account of of what really happened without clouding the facts before considering their own ratings?

Perhaps you could sniff around in your own backyard to see how disarming the populace made a difference in the lives lost due to the Ecole Polytechnique massacre using a semi-automatic rifle and a hunting knife that killed 14 and injured 14 or the Concordia University massacre by Dr. Valery Fabrikant.
I can continue but we all realize the population of Canada is 1/10 that of the U.S.
Calhouns "Mortality-Inhibiting Environment exemplifies that we (U.S.) are bound to exhibit far greater atrocities than that of your sparse frozen population up North.

You live in a dream world where vicious dogs are sent packing with Tri-pods. Good luck with that, "friend".

 

[regor]

Do you really want to see a bunch of left wing unionized teachers packing heat in your school? If they cannot be trusted not to teach our kids all about gay marriage, evolution and atheism, how can we trust them with deadly weapons? All of a sudden those lazy unionized socialist propagandizers are the good guys?

:thumbup:

Remember, it's all about the children! arty:

 

[DtB]

what the hell is the NBA doing concerning itself with these issues anyway?

 

[Old Texan]

An observation aside from the topic. Odd how the Liberal Left is all about rights to not have to show and/or carry personal ID to prove citizenship and/or vote, rights to ending life in the womb up until the moment of birth, rights for the specific group of folks responsible for around 99+% of all plane hijackings/bombongs not to be singled out more than 80 year old caucasian grandmothers, rights of bigots to protest funerals of soldiers without any respect or concern about the grieving families, rights for illegals who would be in jail if they tried to enter their own countries in the same manner, support of entitlements to drug users and criminals, and on and on.

Yet they would take away all citizens Constitutional rights to bear arms, take away rights to any vehicle that doesn't conform to their narrow views formed from mostly junk science and misconceptions, protest even the mere mention of Jesus Christ outside of a formally marked place of worship, and outlaw/ban/protest/ ridicule any form of communication that they can't agree with or objectively tolerate, rights to rent personal property to only legitimate legal citizens, and a wide ever growing range of formerly accepted behavior that harmed no one except those who refused to conform to some type of decent standards other than their own.

We live in a nation of spoiled children who react on blind emotion and bitch incessantly why things go wrong inspite of their ongoing support of poor choices. They fail to see the irony in the fact a high percentage of the rock star/movie star/ entertainment media industry members who lead their charge, regularly are arrested for a myriad of crimes small and large, spend periods in detox and mental centers, breed like rabbits in relationships akin to teenage crushes, change sexual persuations on a whim, adopt kids from 3rd world countries while their natural offspring end up in rehabs or commit suicide, support entertainment dialogue that talks of murder and retribution to the "system" and male dominance over females while claiming support and respect for women. Rappers who cry for retribution for the deeds of sevral generation back in history, yet treat their own women and children like chattel......It's a very confusing message when you get right down to it. But not so confusing when we see the everyday results from that message's effects in society.

Flame on, carry on, whatever......:rolleyes

 

[Buoy]

The whole idea of teachers carrying guns will never happen.
Teachers = Union.
Union = Democrat
Democrat = Outlaw guns

 

[regor]

An observation aside from the topic. Odd how the Liberal Left is all about rights to not have to show and/or carry personal ID to prove citizenship and/or vote, rights to ending life in the womb up until the moment of birth, rights for the specific group of folks responsible for around 99+% of all plane hijackings/bombongs not to be singled out more than 80 year old caucasian grandmothers, rights of bigots to protest funerals of soldiers without any respect or concern about the grieving families, rights for illegals who would be in jail if they tried to enter their own countries in the same manner, support of entitlements to drug users and criminals, and on and on.

Yet they would take away all citizens Constitutional rights to bear arms, take away rights to any vehicle that doesn't conform to their narrow views formed from mostly junk science and misconceptions, protest even the mere mention of Jesus Christ outside of a formally marked place of worship, and outlaw/ban/protest/ ridicule any form of communication that they can't agree with or objectively tolerate, rights to rent personal property to only legitimate legal citizens, and a wide ever growing range of formerly accepted behavior that harmed no one except those who refused to conform to some type of decent standards other than their own.

We live in a nation of spoiled children who react on blind emotion and bitch incessantly why things go wrong inspite of their ongoing support of poor choices. They fail to see the irony in the fact a high percentage of the rock star/movie star/ entertainment media industry members who lead their charge, regularly are arrested for a myriad of crimes small and large, spend periods in detox and mental centers, breed like rabbits in relationships akin to teenage crushes, change sexual persuations on a whim, adopt kids from 3rd world countries while their natural offspring end up in rehabs or commit suicide, support entertainment dialogue that talks of murder and retribution to the "system" and male dominance over females while claiming support and respect for women. Rappers who cry for retribution for the deeds of sevral generation back in history, yet treat their own women and children like chattel......It's a very confusing message when you get right down to it. But not so confusing when we see the everyday results from that message's effects in society.

Flame on, carry on, whatever......:rolleyes

Well said Tex. :thumbup:

This was a horrible tragedy, no doubt about it but, if you think this will be the last, you are mistaken. There is no fixing it and there will be plenty more to come. It comes down to accountability IMO, something that the majority of citizens in this country, clearly have no clue about.

 

[Tinkerer]

The debt problem and the mass shooting of our kids are related. NO politition is going to do what really needs to be done to fix the problem since it would be political suicide.
I don't care that most teachers are LIBS. NOT ALL are - Let the ones that are willing and pass the training, background and mental testing carry in the classroom.
Again just the knowledge that the teachers might be packing would be a huge deterant.

 

[Outnumbered]

"the only way to fight bad guys with guys is with good guys with guns" Wow. Even if you are a member and supporter of this you have to think this was a joke. 1/3 of all schools have armed guards. Columbine had armed guards, how did that work out?
If you want a gun great, I dont care.
The problem is the lack of mental health care. I lived it for 6 years with my crazy/ sick/ mental/ scary neighbor, he is 40ish. the sheriff was here over 50 times is 6 years. he threatend to kill me and family dozens of times, he tried to open my doors, my windows, you name it. I got a retraining order, had him arrested 4 times. He kept coming back.
Sheriff told me every time, "sorry he has more rights than you do, he doesnt know what he is doing". really? i had multiple sheriffs tell me " you didnt hear this from me, but a little street justice goes a long way" really? Then I go to jail if i do that since Im normal.
Finally being threaten multiple times in 1 day, he actually threatened me while the sheriff was in my driveway. arrested again. I took 6 years of documents to the sheriff station. They were suprised that this had gone on so long, really?? Bull shit. They dont want to deal with it, they cant deal with it. Until he snaps or commites a violent crime he has rights you and I dont have. After 6 years my paperwork made it to the DA's desk, the calls and meetings started. My family received a CRIMINAL restraining order, totally different from a typical one. He stayed in jail until a "bed" opened up at a facility, which is located downtown SD. He is free to wander the streets and ruin other peoples life, which Im sure he is.
thats how the SYSTEM works. There is NO system, the problems are just moved, not solved. There is no place for mentally disturbed people, there is no hospital anymore to send these people, no imaginary movies mental wards.
Stopping guns sales cures nothing. Its to late for that. helping or hospitalizing "crazy" people is a legal snafu nobody will touch.
Take a distrubed kid, sit him in front of violent movies, tv and video game and surprise they snap at some point.


Why did I take time to type this? well I believe the gun happy doomsdayers are spending all their time and effort complaining the government is taking away theirs rights when the problem isnt guns at all. Its lack of help for messed up brains.
past generations were doomdayers also, cold war, remember? We just never had the media to fill our heads with fear that a individual might need another gun to add to the 20 they already have.
My guess is if you are affraid your guns will be taken away , you probably have enough guns!
Maybe spend a a fraction of the time wasted on complaining about the government and guns and use a fraction of that time pushing for a solution to the lack of mental health care in this country, thats the real problem.


By the way, I dont own a gun. If I did my sick neighbor would have been shot, then id be in jail and not able to type this:rolleyes

Did you (or any of the other posters here bashing this guy) even read or listen to what the guy said or did you just get your info after it was filtered by the liberal mainstream media? They conveniently left out all the other things he said about the current state of our society. While his proposal may not be the best it sure as hell makes more sense than banning certain types of weapons from law abiding citizens. Here is the entire transcript:

The National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre makes a statement during a news conference in response to the Connecticut school shooting, on Friday, Dec. 21, 2012 in Washington.


The National Rifle Association's 4 million mothers, fathers, sons and daughters join the nation in horror, outrage, grief and earnest prayer for the families of Newtown, Connecticut ... who suffered such incomprehensible loss as a result of this unspeakable crime.
Out of respect for those grieving families, and until the facts are known, the NRA has refrained from comment. While some have tried to exploit tragedy for political gain, we have remained respectfully silent.
Now, we must speak ... for the safety of our nation's children. Because for all the noise and anger directed at us over the past week, no one ? nobody ? has addressed the most important, pressing and immediate question we face: How do we protect our children right now, starting today, in a way that we know works?
The only way to answer that question is to face up to the truth. Politicians pass laws for Gun-Free School Zones. They issue press releases bragging about them. They post signs advertising them.
And in so doing, they tell every insane killer in America that schools are their safest place to inflict maximum mayhem with minimum risk.
How have our nation's priorities gotten so far out of order? Think about it. We care about our money, so we protect our banks with armed guards. American airports, office buildings, power plants, courthouses ? even sports stadiums ? are all protected by armed security.
We care about the President, so we protect him with armed Secret Service agents. Members of Congress work in offices surrounded by armed Capitol Police officers.
Yet when it comes to the most beloved, innocent and vulnerable members of the American family ? our children ? we as a society leave them utterly defenseless, and the monsters and predators of this world know it and exploit it. That must change now!
The truth is that our society is populated by an unknown number of genuine monsters ? people so deranged, so evil, so possessed by voices and driven by demons that no sane person can possibly ever comprehend them. They walk among us every day. And does anybody really believe that the next Adam Lanza isn't planning his attack on a school he's already identified at this very moment?
How many more copycats are waiting in the wings for their moment of fame ? from a national media machine that rewards them with the wall-to-wall attention and sense of identity that they crave ? while provoking others to try to make their mark?
A dozen more killers? A hundred? More? How can we possibly even guess how many, given our nation's refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill?
And the fact is, that wouldn't even begin to address the much larger and more lethal criminal class: Killers, robbers, rapists and drug gang members who have spread like cancer in every community in this country. Meanwhile, federal gun prosecutions have decreased by 40% ? to the lowest levels in a decade.
So now, due to a declining willingness to prosecute dangerous criminals, violent crime is increasing again for the first time in 19 years! Add another hurricane, terrorist attack or some other natural or man-made disaster, and you've got a recipe for a national nightmare of violence and victimization.
And here's another dirty little truth that the media try their best to conceal: There exists in this country a callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells, and sows, violence against its own people.
Through vicious, violent video games with names like Bulletstorm, Grand Theft Auto, Mortal Kombat and Splatterhouse. And here's one: it's called Kindergarten Killers. It's been online for 10 years. How come my research department could find it and all of yours either couldn't or didn't want anyone to know you had found it?
Then there's the blood-soaked slasher films like "American Psycho" and "Natural Born Killers" that are aired like propaganda loops on "Splatterdays" and every day, and a thousand music videos that portray life as a joke and murder as a way of life. And then they have the nerve to call it "entertainment."
But is that what it really is? Isn't fantasizing about killing people as a way to get your kicks really the filthiest form of pornography?
In a race to the bottom, media conglomerates compete with one another to shock, violate and offend every standard of civilized society by bringing an ever-more-toxic mix of reckless behavior and criminal cruelty into our homes ? every minute of every day of every month of every year.
A child growing up in America witnesses 16,000 murders and 200,000 acts of violence by the time he or she reaches the ripe old age of 18.
And throughout it all, too many in our national media ... their corporate owners ... and their stockholders ... act as silent enablers, if not complicit co-conspirators. Rather than face their own moral failings, the media demonize lawful gun owners, amplify their cries for more laws and fill the national debate with misinformation and dishonest thinking that only delay meaningful action and all but guarantee that the next atrocity is only a news cycle away.
The media call semi-automatic firearms "machine guns" ? they claim these civilian semi-automatic firearms are used by the military, and they tell us that the .223 round is one of the most powerful rifle calibers ... when all of these claims are factually untrue. They don't know what they're talking about!
Worse, they perpetuate the dangerous notion that one more gun ban ? or one more law imposed on peaceful, lawful people ? will protect us where 20,000 others have failed!
As brave, heroic and self-sacrificing as those teachers were in those classrooms, and as prompt, professional and well-trained as those police were when they responded, they were unable ? through no fault of their own ? to stop it.
As parents, we do everything we can to keep our children safe. It is now time for us to assume responsibility for their safety at school. The only way to stop a monster from killing our kids is to be personally involved and invested in a plan of absolute protection. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Would you rather have your 911 call bring a good guy with a gun from a mile away ... or a minute away?
Now, I can imagine the shocking headlines you'll print tomorrow morning: "More guns," you'll claim, "are the NRA's answer to everything!" Your implication will be that guns are evil and have no place in society, much less in our schools. But since when did the word "gun" automatically become a bad word?
A gun in the hands of a Secret Service agent protecting the President isn't a bad word. A gun in the hands of a soldier protecting the United States isn't a bad word. And when you hear the glass breaking in your living room at 3 a.m. and call 911, you won't be able to pray hard enough for a gun in the hands of a good guy to get there fast enough to protect you.
So why is the idea of a gun good when it's used to protect our President or our country or our police, but bad when it's used to protect our children in their schools?
They're our kids. They're our responsibility. And it's not just our duty to protect them ? it's our right to protect them.
You know, five years ago, after the Virginia Tech tragedy, when I said we should put armed security in every school, the media called me crazy. But what if, when Adam Lanza started shooting his way into Sandy Hook Elementary School last Friday, he had been confronted by qualified, armed security?
Will you at least admit it's possible that 26 innocent lives might have been spared? Is that so abhorrent to you that you would rather continue to risk the alternative?
Is the press and political class here in Washington so consumed by fear and hatred of the NRA and America's gun owners that you're willing to accept a world where real resistance to evil monsters is a lone, unarmed school principal left to surrender her life to shield the children in her care? No one ? regardless of personal political prejudice ? has the right to impose that sacrifice.
Ladies and gentlemen, there is no national, one-size-fits-all solution to protecting our children. But do know this President zeroed out school emergency planning grants in last year's budget, and scrapped "Secure Our Schools" policing grants in next year's budget.
With all the foreign aid, with all the money in the federal budget, we can't afford to put a police officer in every school? Even if they did that, politicians have no business ? and no authority ? denying us the right, the ability, or the moral imperative to protect ourselves and our loved ones from harm.
Now, the National Rifle Association knows that there are millions of qualified active and retired police; active, reserve and retired military; security professionals; certified firefighters and rescue personnel; and an extraordinary corps of patriotic, trained qualified citizens to join with local school officials and police in devising a protection plan for every school. We can deploy them to protect our kids now. We can immediately make America's schools safer ? relying on the brave men and women of America's police force.
The budget of our local police departments are strained and resources are limited, but their dedication and courage are second to none and they can be deployed right now.
I call on Congress today to act immediately, to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed police officers in every school ? and to do it now, to make sure that blanket of safety is in place when our children return to school in January.
Before Congress reconvenes, before we engage in any lengthy debate over legislation, regulation or anything else, as soon as our kids return to school after the holiday break, we need to have every single school in America immediately deploy a protection program proven to work ? and by that I mean armed security.
Right now, today, every school in the United States should plan meetings with parents, school administrators, teachers and local authorities ? and draw upon every resource available ? to erect a cordon of protection around our kids right now. Every school will have a different solution based on its own unique situation.
Every school in America needs to immediately identify, dedicate and deploy the resources necessary to put these security forces in place right now. And the National Rifle Association, as America's preeminent trainer of law enforcement and security personnel for the past 50 years, is ready, willing and uniquely qualified to help.
Our training programs are the most advanced in the world. That expertise must be brought to bear to protect our schools and our children now. We did it for the nation's defense industries and military installations during World War II, and we'll do it for our schools today.
The NRA is going to bring all of its knowledge, dedication and resources to develop a model National School Shield Emergency Response Program for every school that wants it. From armed security to building design and access control to information technology to student and teacher training, this multi-faceted program will be developed by the very best experts in their fields.
Former Congressman Asa Hutchinson will lead this effort as National Director of the National School Shield Program, with a budget provided by the NRA of whatever scope the task requires. His experience as a U.S. Attorney, Director of the Drug Enforcement Agency and Undersecretary of the Department of Homeland Security will give him the knowledge and expertise to hire the most knowledgeable and credentialed experts available anywhere, to get this program up and running from the first day forward.
If we truly cherish our kids more than our money or our celebrities, we must give them the greatest level of protection possible and the security that is only available with a properly trained ? armed ? good guy.
Under Asa's leadership, our team of security experts will make this the best program in the world for protecting our children at school, and we will make that program available to every school in America free of charge.
That's a plan of action that can, and will, make a real, positive and indisputable difference in the safety of our children ? starting right now.
There'll be time for talk and debate later. This is the time, this is the day for decisive action.
We can't wait for the next unspeakable crime to happen before we act. We can't lose precious time debating legislation that won't work. We mustn't allow politics or personal prejudice to divide us. We must act now.
For the sake of the safety of every child in America, I call on every parent, every teacher, every school administrator and every law enforcement officer in this country to join us in the National School Shield Program and protect our children with the only line of positive defense that's tested and proven to work.

 

[Dan Lorenze]

An observation aside from the topic. Odd how the Liberal Left is all about rights to not have to show and/or carry personal ID to prove citizenship and/or vote, rights to ending life in the womb up until the moment of birth, rights for the specific group of folks responsible for around 99+% of all plane hijackings/bombongs not to be singled out more than 80 year old caucasian grandmothers, rights of bigots to protest funerals of soldiers without any respect or concern about the grieving families, rights for illegals who would be in jail if they tried to enter their own countries in the same manner, support of entitlements to drug users and criminals, and on and on.

Yet they would take away all citizens Constitutional rights to bear arms, take away rights to any vehicle that doesn't conform to their narrow views formed from mostly junk science and misconceptions, protest even the mere mention of Jesus Christ outside of a formally marked place of worship, and outlaw/ban/protest/ ridicule any form of communication that they can't agree with or objectively tolerate, rights to rent personal property to only legitimate legal citizens, and a wide ever growing range of formerly accepted behavior that harmed no one except those who refused to conform to some type of decent standards other than their own.

We live in a nation of spoiled children who react on blind emotion and bitch incessantly why things go wrong inspite of their ongoing support of poor choices. They fail to see the irony in the fact a high percentage of the rock star/movie star/ entertainment media industry members who lead their charge, regularly are arrested for a myriad of crimes small and large, spend periods in detox and mental centers, breed like rabbits in relationships akin to teenage crushes, change sexual persuations on a whim, adopt kids from 3rd world countries while their natural offspring end up in rehabs or commit suicide, support entertainment dialogue that talks of murder and retribution to the "system" and male dominance over females while claiming support and respect for women. Rappers who cry for retribution for the deeds of sevral generation back in history, yet treat their own women and children like chattel......It's a very confusing message when you get right down to it. But not so confusing when we see the everyday results from that message's effects in society.

Flame on, carry on, whatever......:rolleyes

Well said Old Texan.. Well said.. I am right there with you!

 

[Cdog]

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

-- Samuel Adams