New HU... Some weird voltage out of Pioneer

[headshothills]

Hey Guys,

I wanted to post this kind of as a heads up, and potentially any feedback if anyone has any... The boat has had an old school JVC back from 01 or 02... Works great, slightly out dated, no USB, No Bluetooth, no AUX In, but did have the old school Sirius tuner with iPod 30 pin adapter, so it wasn't completely bad..

So I do the research, and decide on the Pioneer, mind you I had a Pioneer in my old boat, and a 7" Double Din in my truck... So I figured it wouldn't hurt to stick with what yah know...

This HU is feeding old school Rockford Fosgate T2000.1 (Subs) and T1500.4 (Front/Rear)... 8- 6x9's and 4-15's... Again, the sound quality of the JVC sounded great, just didn't have the versatility I wanted for 2014.... AMP Gains are set all the way down, and the JVC would get as loud as you wanted with room to spare...

Throw in a Pioneer DEH-9600BT, get it all wired up, and figured Id tune it at the lake rather than annoy the neighbors... Yah... Wrong... Get out to the lake and start tweaking on it, EQ, HPF, LPF, etc, and crank it all the way and hardly have any sound.... Scratch my head and decide I'll tackle it in the garage...

Get back, whip out the volt meter, and start messing with the gain... JL Audio Amps come with a nice chart to help set the gains on your amps depending on your ohm load for your output voltage for the speakers, couldn't really find anything for these Rockford amps, so start tweaking it in to get close to the output voltage level match for the input level... As some of you know, this is done unhooking your + speaker lead from the amp, turning your headunit 1/2 - 2/3's of the way up and running a constant tone through a CD or iPod-- Subs is 50hz, and Mids/Tweeks can be 1khz, then taking a voltage reading from the output of the amp.. the HU EQ should be completely flat, no bass boost or anything set... The damn thing was only putting out .5v... Granted that's far from the specified 4v pre-outs it claims, so with the HU at 40 volume, max is 60, so I start trying to dial in the gain... I get to about 49v, gain is like 3/4th up, and of course now you have the dreaded amp hiss cause the gains are cranked... I try cranking the HU all the way up... Not even 1V... So I decide to call Pioneer support to ask them what the Voltage to Slope curve is on the Volume for the pre-outs... Yah... No Bueno, I was told that is classified and I couldn't get that information.... Even though I told him im only getting .5v out at 1/2-2/3 volume... He had nothing....

Frustrated with only a couple days to spare before DS, I needed a quick fix... Found some JL Audio Line Drivers which claim to boost pre-output to 7.5v... Thought what the hell, for 59 bucks a pop, I could get 3, and independently control the sub volume, side speaker, and rear seat volume individually, which in my eyes was a plus... The 6x9's on the side sit just about ear level and can be ear piercing when driving, so having the ability to turn these down, independently while keeping the rest turned up, was a huge plus for the wife...

Was able to find 3 of these to install... After talking to a couple different audio shops about the issue, most of them claimed the obvious, they don't make them like they used to... That was comforting...

So I get the 3 line drivers installed, turn the gains all the way back to 0, no more hiss, better volume, but still no in the ballpark of what the old school JVC did on its own... It got me through the weekend, still have to crank the HU volume knob to like 50 just to get a decent amount of throughput even to the JL Line Drivers... Nevertheless, It was bugging me, so I opted for a Amazon Return and got the Kenwood KDC-X997... We shall see how this one fairs... If this doesn't fair to well, it back to a JVC Arsenal as a backup HU....

The crap we buy these days just aren't built like the used to be.... Anyone have any luck with this Kenwood 997 or the JVC Arsenal KD-A95BT?

 

[SPL2K]

What were you using for source when you were measuring voltage out on the RCA's? 50hz or music? iPod or CD? Not to insult you but were you measuring AC or DC?
Low voltage out on a Pioneer is tropical until you start getting close to max volume. Then it starts ramping up quick. If it goes to 60, then your max clean listening level should be around 55.
I love Pioneer head units in cars but hate them in boats.

 

[headshothills]

What were you using for source when you were measuring voltage out on the RCA's? 50hz or music? iPod or CD? Not to insult you but were you measuring AC or DC?
Low voltage out on a Pioneer is tropical until you start getting close to max volume. Then it starts ramping up quick. If it goes to 60, then your max clean listening level should be around 55.
I love Pioneer head units in cars but hate them in boats.

DC... Did it the same way I did my JL System in the truck... I was just shocked... My AVH HU in the truck is awesome, love it... The Pioneer HU unit I had in my old boat, the front USB was shot after a couple trips... Was bummed, but the rest of the unit was good....

Maybe its just me and not being used to the high slope in the end of the volume run, just made low level listening a PITA... I have always associated High volume control to distortion, maybe that's the wrong mindset, but in all the old school stuff I did, normally after 1/2-2/3 volume you started getting the distort from the HU....

I Used my Iphone with the Signal Generator App... for the subs, I ran a 50hz Constant tone, and checked voltage... For the front's/rear's, Ran a 1khz constant tone....

It was a night and day difference from the Old JCV to the new Pioneer... I had Blubyu in the boat cause we were motor testing, and even he was like, dude, WTF is wrong with your HU....

My other problem is, Ive never really been a "Marine" HU kinda of guy, yah I know they are better protect from moisture and stuff, but you just don't get, or I haven't really seen a quality Marine HU with the features of a car HU... Aside from that, then you have the challenge of trying to find the balance with a HU that you can actually see the display in the sunlight, which is always a PITA... I have had good luck with Clarion, even considered the CZ702... Lacked a little in the EQ and tuning... The JCV KD-A95BT did have some nice features, not as many fine tuning capabilities as the X997, but was promising with 5v pre-outs....

Im looking at actually swapping out the 8 - 6x9's... They are the old school MB Quart from 2001, back from when they were still true german engineering quality.... Was considering the JBL GTO-938.... Torn because all of them are in technically located in Free-Air spots... 2 on each side, whereas the 4 in the rear seat base technically are using the seat base enclosure as a box, but again... Still pretty much a free-air enclosure cause its so big.... thoughts?

 

[SPL2K]

DC is incorrect. RCA output and speaker output from both head units and amplifiers are AC voltage.

An iPhone app signal generator will work but I would trust the signal from a CD to be a lot more accurate and "clean".

Distortion usually becomes audible in the top 10% of the head units volume range which would put your peak clean output in the low 50's. If you're maxing out well below that then your amp gains are too high.

The newer Sony Marine head units are great. Ive tried everything in my personal boat and thats what I use.... and I'm VERY picky.

Im not familiar with those JBL speakers but 99% of full range speakers today are engineered to play free air. With 4 15's in the boat, it won't really matter anyway because your 6X9's will be playing high pass. You won't need them to play sub-bass which is the only area free-air vs. enclosed will make a difference on them.