New boats - Are people still buying new boats?

[I Dig It !]

New builds are very expensive. Labor isn’t cheap materials aren’t cheap. It’s no longer your 350 small block Chevy etc. I contacted Nordic before I bought mine used inquiring about building new they wanted 365k for a 29 deck with 400s. When I asked if that was the best they could do that’s where the conversation ended so they must be plenty busy. The used market will stay high due to new builds being a fortune. But also used is gonna be harder to unload as they get older finance companies won’t finance etc. prices are coming down.

I hear ya. Covid messed this all up and I’m sure that the big guys that planed the plandemic had it all figured out. I’m in a position I have never been in before to pay cash for a boat and not finance anything and trying to find what I want For a price I can afford is difficult.

but I’m going to try to be patient and find what I’m looking for and in my price range. I’m done being a slave to the man and I’m paying cash!

 

[NicPaus]

Used is definitely coming down. Covid prices are over. But I have not seen precovid prices yet.

My old Ultra was 53k new with every option and upgraded to 454 with bravo 1. Pre covid I got 15k. During covid I could of got 45k. Now I would say 22-25k. But to build it new today 100k.

Just glad I got the Cobra precovid.

 

[JFMFG]

I hear ya. Covid messed this all up and I’m sure that the big guys that planed the plandemic had it all figured out. I’m in a position I have never been in before to pay cash for a boat and not finance anything and trying to find what I want For a price I can afford is difficult.

but I’m going to try to be patient and find what I’m looking for and in my price range. I’m done being a slave to the man and I’m paying cash!

I think after the election we will see prices drop.

Used is definitely coming down. Covid prices are over. But I have not seen precovid prices yet.

My old Ultra was 53k new with every option and upgraded to 454 with bravo 1. Pre covid I got 15k. During covid I could of got 45k. Now I would say 22-25k. But to build it new today 100k.

Just glad I got the Cobra precovid.

I think by beginning of season next year we will be closer to pre Covid prices.

 

[DRYHEAT]

If I recall the 210 was 145k range

Pretty crazy, I remember looking to buy a vector or a 210 around 1985-87, think the vectors were right around 19 or $20,000 and the 210s were probably $22-$25,000.

 

[Melloyellovector]

Pretty crazy, I remember looking to buy a vector or a 210 around 1985-87, think the vectors were right around 19 or $20,000 and the 210s were probably $22-$25,000.

It is crazy. But it is what it is
meantime everyone’s waiting for the world to reverse costs. Never gonna happen. Lol
corporations have stock holders, boards are never gonna say let’s lower our prices and tank our stocks. They’ll fire employees and close operations long before any would consider lowering costs.

 

[DWC]

New builds are very expensive. Labor isn’t cheap materials aren’t cheap. It’s no longer your 350 small block Chevy etc. I contacted Nordic before I bought mine used inquiring about building new they wanted 365k for a 29 deck with 400s. When I asked if that was the best they could do that’s where the conversation ended so they must be plenty busy. The used market will stay high due to new builds being a fortune. But also used is gonna be harder to unload as they get older finance companies won’t finance etc. prices are coming down.

That’s crazy. They were under $300k on the 35’ she. They first introduced it. That’s a shitload more work and raw materials.

 

[FROGMAN524]

There seems to be plenty of people dropping $45.000 on a new SXS and then dumping another $40-60,000 into them. That really blows my mind.

 

[DRYHEAT]

It is crazy. But it is what it is
meantime everyone’s waiting for the world to reverse costs. Never gonna happen. Lol
corporations have stock holders, boards are never gonna say let’s lower our prices and tank our stocks. They’ll fire employees and close operations long before any would consider lowering costs.

Just looking at a typical mom and pop production bowrider a 21 footer is right at about 100 K, nothing custom about it.

The bar for entry-level boating has definitely been raised.

 

[RiverDave]

There seems to be plenty of people dropping $45.000 on a new SXS and then dumping another $40-60,000 into them. That really blows my mind.

Well when ya put it like that.. lol.

I was thinking about what it would cost to build a new 335 with decent power.. it’s gotta be insane money

 

[ChrisV]

There seems to be plenty of people dropping $45.000 on a new SXS and then dumping another $40-60,000 into them. That really blows my mind.

You should see the drag racing world. We're all idiots.

 

[DRYHEAT]

You should see the drag racing world. We're all idiots.

You’re hanging out at the wrong drag races. Duct tape drags for the win.

 

[Orange Juice]

If I recall the 210 was 145k range

I've always thought the 21’ Eliminator was priced about the same as the higher-end Corvette.

I've bought two 21 eliminator new 1985 & 1989. One was closed bow and one open. Much more fun than a corvette.

 

[FROGMAN524]

Well when ya put it like that.. lol.

I was thinking about what it would cost to build a new 335 with decent power.. it’s gotta be insane money

I asked. It’s $4-500,000 depending on 700s or 1100s.

The 400 was $650-750,000 depending on 700s or 1100s.

 

[JFMFG]

I asked. It’s $4-500,000 depending on 700s or 1100s.

The 400 was $650-750,000 depending on 700s or 1100s.

Damn that’s some coin.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Interceptor has the old cole 25 mold and they will build one with a 300r for under 100k still.

 

[JFMFG]

Interceptor has the old cole 25 mold and they will build one with a 300r for under 100k still.

Saw an interceptor this weekend. Their interiors are looking really good. Andrew has done a great job.

 

[RiverDave]

I asked. It’s $4-500,000 depending on 700s or 1100s.

The 400 was $650-750,000 depending on 700s or 1100s.

That’s about what I was thinking..

 

[Tank0088]

Are people who can afford these boats buying them with multiple business partners, or are people making millions every year? I feel like what I make in a year is what some of these people make in a few hours or days. I’m just jealous.

 

[hallett21]

Are people who can afford these boats buying them with multiple business partners, or are people making millions every year? I feel like what I make in a year is what some of these people make in a few hours or days. I’m just jealous.

I think there’s an assumption that everyone pays cash.

Borrowing money doesn’t mean you can’t afford the purchase either. Buyers may cut a check to the builder. But no one knows if they’re tapping into lines of credit personally or through their business.

The cash for toys mentality worked in the 70s, 80s and 90s. It still works today in the used market. But if you’re going to drop 300+ on a toy why not put the liability on the bank? Unless you have enough that you don’t care lol.

 

[Tank]

I think there’s an assumption that everyone pays cash.

Borrowing money doesn’t mean you can’t afford the purchase either. Buyers may cut a check to the builder. But no one knows if they’re tapping into lines of credit personally or through their business.

The cash for toys mentality worked in the 70s, 80s and 90s. It still works today in the used market. But if you’re going to drop 300+ on a toy why not put the liability on the bank? Unless you have enough that you don’t care lol.

Yep, and even then, you pull 800k cash out of investments, that’s 800k that’s now not making money. Instead, you take a line of credit out against that 800k. The interest it’s making is covering the interest against the loan. You pay it back slowly at your own pace and when it’s paid off, you now have you 800k boat, AND you still have your principal 800K invested, still making you money. And even better is your other investments interest rate is paying off the actual loan against the 800k. So, essentially, you just got the 800k boat for free. This is what they mean when they say, make your money work for you.




Also, if I was looking at a new small vee bottom, I’d immediately see if Ricky would build one of those MOM’s. Those fuckers are so bad ass!!!

 

[JFMFG]

Yep, and even then, you pull 800k cash out of investments, that’s 800k that’s now not making money. Instead, you take a line of credit out against that 800k. The interest it’s making is covering the interest against the loan. You pay it back slowly at your own pace and when it’s paid off, you now have you 800k boat, AND you still have your principal 800K invested, still making you money. This is what they mean when they say, make your money work for you.




Also, if I was looking at a new small vee bottom, I’d immediately see if Ricky would build one of those MOM’s. Those fuckers are so bad ass!!!

I think there’s an assumption that everyone pays cash.

Borrowing money doesn’t mean you can’t afford the purchase either. Buyers may cut a check to the builder. But no one knows if they’re tapping into lines of credit personally or through their business.

The cash for toys mentality worked in the 70s, 80s and 90s. It still works today in the used market. But if you’re going to drop 300+ on a toy why not put the liability on the bank? Unless you have enough that you don’t care lol.

How would you pay for a boat out of a regular business and not worry about issues with the IRS? I get it entertainment etc. but just risky to me.

 

[ChrisV]

Yep, and even then, you pull 800k cash out of investments, that’s 800k that’s now not making money. Instead, you take a line of credit out against that 800k. The interest it’s making is covering the interest against the loan. You pay it back slowly at your own pace and when it’s paid off, you now have you 800k boat, AND you still have your principal 800K invested, still making you money. And even better is your other investments interest rate is paying off the actual loan against the 800k. So, essentially, you just got the 800k boat for free. This is what they mean when they say, make your money work for you.




Also, if I was looking at a new small vee bottom, I’d immediately see if Ricky would build one of those MOM’s. Those fuckers are so bad ass!!!

So… end of the day you still gotta make a shit load of money.

 

[Tank]

How would you pay for a boat out of a regular business and not worry about issues with the IRS? I get it entertainment etc. but just risky to me.

That’s a question for Shintoo but there’s ways to do it and make it a tax write off as well. All legit.

 

[JFMFG]

That’s a question for Shintoo but there’s ways to do it and make it a tax write off as well. All legit.

My CPA is pretty to the book. I don’t want any issues so I don’t push much

 

[Tank]

So… end of the day you still gotta make a shit load of money.

Yep. That scenario was regarding those with money invested.

On the flip side, if you’re a blue collar worker and don’t have 150k liquid but can afford the payment, a standard boat / RV loan at 20 years may make sense. I know people on here are against that, but I am not. If you work hard and can afford the payment and the interest, fuck it! Get some. You live once. Make shit happen!!

 

[Paradox]

Then there are folks like me on the verge of retirement with essentially what will amount to a fixed income going forward (with annual bumps) which we’ll have to stick with. As such, an older boat for cash makes sense. I personally don’t want to roll into retirement with significant debt over my head.

 

[hallett21]

How would you pay for a boat out of a regular business and not worry about issues with the IRS? I get it entertainment etc. but just risky to me.

Gonna have to ask @shintoooo. I believe at a minimum the corp can loan “you” money.

 

[shintoooo]

How would you pay for a boat out of a regular business and not worry about issues with the IRS? I get it entertainment etc. but just risky to me.

It depends on a lot of factors but here are two simple scenarios. First, I wouldn't pay for the boat from the business account because you don't want to comingle business/personal expenses. If it's a C-Corp, then it would be considered a dividend and you would pay taxes on that money you distribute to yourself to buy the boat. If it's an S-Corp, then it's just a distribution. You distribute the money to your personal account and then buy the boat.

However, keep in mind though that you will still owe taxes on whatever pass-through income you have from the S-Corp so make sure you leave enough money to pay your taxes lol.

Again, the above are just two napkin drawn ideas sitting at the bar and just my opinion and not tax advice so leave me alone.

 

[JFMFG]

It depends on a lot of factors but here are two simple scenarios. First, I wouldn't pay for the boat from the business account because you don't want to comingle business/personal expenses. If it's a C-Corp, then it would be considered a dividend and you would pay taxes on that money you distribute to yourself to buy the boat. If it's an S-Corp, then it's just a distribution. You distribute the money to your personal account and then buy the boat.

However, keep in mind though that you will still owe taxes on whatever pass-through income you have from the S-Corp so make sure you leave enough money to pay your taxes lol.

Again, the above are just two napkin drawn ideas sitting at the bar and just my opinion and not tax advice so leave me alone.

I am an s corp so would it be similar to say a shareholder loan?

 

[hallett21]

Now involve @ChumpChange

What if your business does 5-10 million a year with a bank. Maybe they can pencil a personal loan for a boat.

You’re definitely making money either way. But the way you pay for it is a whole different story.

 

[shintoooo]

I am an s corp so would it be similar to say a shareholder loan?

Yes, if you don't have basis (retained earnings) then it would have to be classified as a loan and you technically have to pay yourself interest (most people don't).

 

[JFMFG]

Yes, if you don't have basis (retained earnings) then it would have to be classified as a loan and you technically have to pay yourself interest (most people don't).

Gotcha.

 

[hallett21]

Yes, if you don't have basis (retained earnings) then it would have to be classified as a loan and you technically have to pay yourself interest (most people don't).

And just like that the CPA created DCB money.


@JFMFG

 

[DrunkenSailor]

It depends on a lot of factors but here are two simple scenarios. First, I wouldn't pay for the boat from the business account because you don't want to comingle business/personal expenses. If it's a C-Corp, then it would be considered a dividend and you would pay taxes on that money you distribute to yourself to buy the boat. If it's an S-Corp, then it's just a distribution. You distribute the money to your personal account and then buy the boat.

However, keep in mind though that you will still owe taxes on whatever pass-through income you have from the S-Corp so make sure you leave enough money to pay your taxes lol.

Again, the above are just two napkin drawn ideas sitting at the bar and just my opinion and not tax advice so leave me alone.

If I put a wrap on it with the business name can it be an advertising expense?

 

[attitude]

I need to start a business…

 

[hallett21]

I need to start a business…

That generates income lol.

 

[RogerThat99]

Velocity has been building some sweet boats. The 29' twin outboard is very nice.

 

[shintoooo]

If I put a wrap on it with the business name can it be an advertising expense?

Yes, the wrap portion, not the boat underneath

 

[Done-it-again]

How would you pay for a boat out of a regular business and not worry about issues with the IRS? I get it entertainment etc. but just risky to me.

You can’t write off “interntament” anymore since Trump got into office.

 

[Done-it-again]

It depends on a lot of factors but here are two simple scenarios. First, I wouldn't pay for the boat from the business account because you don't want to comingle business/personal expenses. If it's a C-Corp, then it would be considered a dividend and you would pay taxes on that money you distribute to yourself to buy the boat. If it's an S-Corp, then it's just a distribution. You distribute the money to your personal account and then buy the boat.

However, keep in mind though that you will still owe taxes on whatever pass-through income you have from the S-Corp so make sure you leave enough money to pay your taxes lol.

Again, the above are just two napkin drawn ideas sitting at the bar and just my opinion and not tax advice so leave me alone.

Now, can you put said boat in its own rental LLC and rent back to your true business LLC and both can double dip the payment against taxes? We do this now with RV’s just not sure if boats are the same.

 

[shintoooo]

Now, can you put said boat in its own rental LLC and rent back to your true business LLC and both can double dip the payment against taxes? We do this now with RV’s just not sure if boats are the same.

It has to be “ordinary and necessary”. Can you explain to an auditor why a DCB is an ordinary and necessary expense for your business? If you can and you’re confident you can pass an audit, then there’s your answer.

 

[DRYHEAT]

Hey @shintoooo I got a quick question?

 

[hallett21]

It has to be “ordinary and necessary”. Can you explain to an auditor why a DCB is an ordinary and necessary expense for your business? If you can and you’re confident you can pass an audit, then there’s your answer.

Sir happiness is necessary

 

[Done-it-again]

It has to be “ordinary and necessary”. Can you explain to an auditor why a DCB is an ordinary and necessary expense for your business? If you can and you’re confident you can pass an audit, then there’s your answer.

I was think along the lines of a 60’ Viking. Ha ha ha.

“ordinary and necessary” for boat is not as easy as an RV. We have customers nationally and use the RV to visit them.

 

[Smupser]

How would you pay for a boat out of a regular business and not worry about issues with the IRS? I get it entertainment etc. but just risky to me.

It’s called “creative financing”

 

[Kenboat]

Keep in mind in the 1980's the average business owner would make 10-15 times what the workers make, today they make 15 -25 times the worker.
These would be firms with 75 to 500 employees.
My dad told me as a young man. You can be the best electrician in the whole state and you will have a really nice middle class life. Own a company that has 500 employees and you will make many times as much.
I own part of a company with a 1000 in the field and dad was correct.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Yes, the wrap portion, not the boat underneath

 

[DrunkenSailor]

AI is stupid lol

 

[traquer]

I love the V hulls Essex is making, always have. Also have always loved Nordic.

Those new Cobras are awesome too. I wasn't familiar with them until the past 5-10 years but they make some sick boats

 

[BigQ]

There seems to be plenty of people dropping $45.000 on a new SXS and then dumping another $40-60,000 into them. That really blows my mind.

Raises hand, lol. Well not that bad. with the purchase it is around 37k invested in 2019, now I have no calls at 21k.