Need some pictures of "fast" Stokers for Oz Dude..

[knuckle head]

email this please

Done:thumbsup

 

[knuckle head]

Stokers suck :thumbsdown

Do you even remember what the river looks like

 

[knuckle head]

Do you have soem pics of your boat on the trailer?

Especially from behind, side, etc..

RD

Billdo's moms 224 :cry:

 

[knuckle head]

Here is the 224 from different angles. I can't view photo bucket so I am not sure what I am posting

 

[Jackpunx]

i'm half tempted to call over there and bug him.

what does the other half say?:champagne:

 

[stokerwhore]

"more coffee"

 

[stokerwhore]

did you get a hall pass for this weekend?

 

[River Lynchmob]

did you get a hall pass for this weekend?

I sent him the hall pass yeaterday!!!

 

[Wakker]

Do you even remember what the river looks like

Barely.. Haven't been since 4th of July..

 

[Jackpunx]

welll... as you know boys.. its tricky.. I wont know till the last min...LOL.. she's says yes.. but its motherday and Ive been gone a bunch.. The hall pass was brilliant though..LOL

 

[Riverbound]

thats what my post was refering to. and mark on mine its more than 4" i'm pretty sure....
Al told me the bottoms are identical 22 & 224

I was under the impression that the bottoms were same also...and the "4" part was the added height of the deck.

 

[Riverbound]

In order to stay within the rules a BIG power 20.4 with an IO would be interesting to see.:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

 

[stokerwhore]

legend has it there once was one back east. nascar motor and a black hawk drive. give all the local drag hydro's serious problems lol

 

[Jackpunx]

legend has it there once was one back east. nascar motor and a black hawk drive. give all the local drag hydro's serious problems lol

this is true. there is more then one out there.. and the top end numbers are the same as mine

 

[coz]

welll... as you know boys.. its tricky.. I wont know till the last min...LOL.. she's says yes.. but its motherday and Ive been gone a bunch.. The hall pass was brilliant though..LOL

I tried that hall pass too, but my wife say's it don't matter when you're on detention :swear you ain't going nowhere :swear

Here is the 224 from different angles. I can't view photo bucket so I am not sure what I am posting

That's RBs Mom's ride

 

[knuckle head]

welll... as you know boys.. its tricky.. I wont know till the last min...LOL.. she's says yes.. but its motherday and Ive been gone a bunch.. The hall pass was brilliant though..LOL

FYI my end of the deal has been completed

 

[Riverbound]

legend has it there once was one back east. nascar motor and a black hawk drive. give all the local drag hydro's serious problems lol

I do remember hearing about that one also...just never saw anyhting else on it.

 

[Riverbound]

That's RBs Mom's ride

Mom has some cool toys

 

[River Lynchmob]

Mom has some cool toys

You in BB this weekend for sure?

 

[coz]

Mom has some cool toys

Um :hmm need an older brother?

 

[460]

Thats one hell of a ride right there. Badass.

Bill, does she need anyone to drive her around. LOL

 

[Riverbound]

You in BB this weekend for sure?

Negative on BB, the black Supra wont be ready in time. looks like I will try and rally up some people for incahoots Friday night and beach day Saturday with some surfing. and then Brunch on Sunday. Its no river trip but I will just have to make up for it on Memorial :champagne::champagne::champagne:

 

[knuckle head]

Bill, does she need anyone to drive her around. LOL

She already has me to do that

 

[mrs. bordsmnj]

Negative on BB, the black Supra wont be ready in time. looks like I will try and rally up some people for incahoots Friday night and beach day Saturday with some surfing. and then Brunch on Sunday. Its no river trip but I will just have to make up for it on Memorial :champagne::champagne::champagne:

:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown:thumbsdown

what happend to our aligned stars??? :grumble::cry:

 

[Retired Member]

That's all in the setup though Mark.. you can fix that relatively easily.

RD

Please explain the reason for porpoising inn the flat water, all knowing aRDy. What would you do to fix it, a stainless porpoise eliminator?

the boat is 22 with a 4' stand off box
Jasons boat is 22

What stand off?

RD

I do believe the "stand off" Mark is referring to is the transom notches in the back of the sponsons (like a Delta Pad, if you will). The measurment would not stop at the end of the running surface, but to the transom itself.

The boats run fast, but would have problems, running superclass, with taking the turns at speed, then taking another set. They would be effective if there were long straight aways, but would scrub off a lot of speed crabbing them around a leg of the race course that is arced.

The last draw back would be putting a drive on the back that could hold that stress for the distance. I have yet to see one with a #6 swinging from the back. I think, if it was possible, a ton of R &D would be needed to get the balance correct.

The outboards where effective, back in the day, do to it being an outboard class. The v-bottoms OBs were slower and the skiers could out ski the speed of the boats. Now you have v-bottoms that can run nearly as fast, while still breaking down the water, as the mod v's.

 

[460]

She already has me to do that

Shit.


I figured, brotha as the driver. Its happened in the movies.

 

[knuckle head]

Shit.


I figured, brotha as the driver. Its happened in the movies.

LMAO

 

[stokerwhore]

The boats run fast, but would have problems, running superclass, with taking the turns at speed, then taking another set. They would be effective if there were long straight aways, but would scrub off a lot of speed crabbing them around a leg of the race course that is arced.

i dont agree with this. to run those speeds pulling a skier with big power you wouldnt be trimmed up at all. deadeven trim to a hair tucked would be the call and they turn like that. i show you this weekend if you like. in the enduro i set the trim dead even and took turns at 85 and never lifted. i actually floored it from half throttle so as to not loose too much speed. i see the logic in the other stuff yuh said.

 

[Local399]

WHo's is the yellow one?

It's MEEEEEEE! :thumbsup

 

[River Lynchmob]

i dont agree with this. to run those speeds pulling a skier with big power you wouldnt be trimmed up at all. deadeven trim to a hair tucked would be the call and they turn like that. i show you this weekend if you like. in the enduro i set the trim dead even and took turns at 85 and never lifted. i actually floored it from half throttle so as to not loose too much speed. i see the logic in the other stuff yuh said.

I think they trim quite a bit...Stinga at this years Bridge to Bridge

 

[knuckle head]

I think they trim quite a bit...Stinga at this years Bridge to Bridge

View attachment 51457

View attachment 51458

He is talking about stokers:thumbsup

 

[stokerwhore]

Love the look of the stokers. Your boys not bad either MrsBordsmnj!!:champagne:
WHo's is the yellow one?
MFV & Dillion nice rides!

thankyou

 

[Retired Member]

i dont agree with this. to run those speeds pulling a skier with big power you wouldnt be trimmed up at all. deadeven trim to a hair tucked would be the call and they turn like that. i show you this weekend if you like. in the enduro i set the trim dead even and took turns at 85 and never lifted. i actually floored it from half throttle so as to not loose too much speed. i see the logic in the other stuff yuh said.

To be competitive in the Superclass, you would need to pull a skier to an average t 115+ mph. The drag created by a skier, at that speed, is tremendous.

Last weekend was the Bridge to Bridge one up race, that was won by Chris Stout. His time was 35 minutes and 14 seconds on an 112 KM (69.5 mile) course. That's an AVERAGE of 118.35mph.

There is a picture of Daniel Cotton skiing in the 115 range that shows the wind in his face and how powerful it is. I just need to dig it up.

 

[stokerwhore]

the skiers nuts alone would cuase serious drag.

 

[Retired Member]

the skiers nuts alone would cuase serious drag.

Very true!

Here is Steve Row from OZ, at 110mph:

 

[Jackpunx]

FYI my end of the deal has been completed

Ok.. we'll talk tonight

 

[Jackpunx]

I think they trim quite a bit...Stinga at this years Bridge to Bridge

View attachment 51457

View attachment 51458

You couldnt run a stoker like that at those speeds.. it would fly away.. but.. you could be out of the water (flat) and slide through a turn like that if the water was flat.. would just need enough prop to get the boat to stay out of the water.. as soon as you blow off your air and if comes down.. its like putting on the breaks...would need more power then what I got to make it work.. and a drive to hold it for that long.. Ive done big bend at 90 in my boat with the water flat but had some air in it.. I cant imagine going to much faster then that in any boat.. would love to see it though

 

[River Lynchmob]

Here's a couple pics of Ziggy...2007 world champ at the 2008 Bridge 2 Bridge one up race at Wiseman's somewhere north or 120 mph...notice his mouth:

 

[coz]

Very true!

Here is Steve Row from OZ, at 110mph:

I guess you need guns like this to hold on at 110mph :thumbsup

 

[obnoxious001]

There is a picture of Daniel Cotton skiing in the 115 range that shows the wind in his face and how powerful it is. I just need to dig it up.

I pulled Daniel one weekend at the circle races at Mead when I was running my Schiada.

 

[obnoxious001]

Here's a couple pics of Ziggy...2007 world champ at the 2008 Bridge 2 Bridge one up race at Wiseman's somewhere north or 120 mph...notice his mouth:

I think he is saying "slow down you bastards!"

 

[Oz Dude]

Hi Fellas...

RiverDave - thanks for setting this thread up for me, you're a great bloke...

I've just spent 2 hours typing a message all about your comments so far and asking questions, providing photos, and the damn thing got lost when I tried to post it up. Needless to say, I'm a little upset at present and don't feel like going through all of it again :swear

So, in typing it again, I'll make some quick comments / questions / observations:

Can someone explain to me the different Stoker models please...

jackpunx - good pics of the boat with the yellow stripes - is that a 224?

knuckle head - awesome pics to show me the details of the hull - which model is that?

H2oSki2Fast - do you think these boats can turn at speed under the right trim? What sort of drive other than a #6 do you think could work? I don't know the prices of stuff overthere but I read about the Ilmor V10-710 coupled to their new Indy drive. Would that take the punishment? Do I need to take out 3 mortgages to buy one of those setups though? Do you think a couple of Eric Simon's latest development motors (once released) would work - 3.1L at about 380hp a piece - or would that be too much weight on the back?

stokerwhore - you think the boat will turn if trimmed under but it sucks up HP. How much HP you running and how much do you think it would take?

River Lynchmob - good pics of Stinga - it shows how they've been flying traditionally. The "new kid" on the block, the Force Hulls now aren't flown at all. They bury em and create a huge hole for the skiers and they're still finding out how to make em faster and faster.

The Stoker hull reminds me a bit of the LabSport Hull we have here. The Lab is only about 18ft long and outboard only:

Here's a couple of Superclass Boats.

Stinga (Connolly) - Flying lhow it's always been done:

Blazen (Force) - now run flat and bury the nose in the turns:

These Force hulls are running even more wet in the turns. I've seen pics where the water is contacting the hull in front of the driver's position. Basically they run em deep in the water and allow 1600hp to push em along.

Also, with regard to engines, the big setups here now are all TT Big Blocks through 2 speed tranmissions, Merc #6 Drives and huge 5 blade cleaver props. Blowers and Whipples are no longer used because the turbos are kinder to the drivetrain, don't blow apart from running big speeds for 40min at a go, and also becasue the turbos don't rip the arms off the skiers when they power down out of turns like the big blowers do.

One of my theories with finding an air entrapment hull is that it would take less HP to drive it than a V Bottom boat. Could I get away with say 1,000Hp and a lesser drive unit out the back?

I need to clarify a point made by H2oSki2Fast about race distance too. The 1-Up Race last weekend runs a shorter course than the November 2-Up Race. The 2-Up Race is advertised as 70miles which is the centerline of the river. Allow 2miles off that for race lines. The 1-Up race is 61miles as measured by us last Sunday. It lowers the average speeds a bit but still doesn't take away form the massive speeds the Superclass guys are running.

As for speeds, the pics of Ziggy are from last year and everyone was blown away when they ran in 36:11. That run was behind a Superclass Hull and trimmed out like nothing else. This year 1st and 2nd place were behind Force Hulls and were 35:14 and 35:39! Third place went to Stinga at 36:34 and Stinga / Hellbent have been the top 2 boats for the last 2 years. Hellbent towed Zig last year so with Stinga's time of 36:34 this year, conditions permitted them to run virtually as fast as last year.

This shows how much difference the Force Hulls are making. They carve a wider, deeper hole in the water and provide the skiers with a much smoother ride. I had a vantage point for the top 10 shootout last November where I could see the boats at V-max for about 1/2 mile. The older-style boats like Stinger saw the skiers being bounced along, the new Force boat basically had the skiers in a constant position. Run smoother for the skier = run faster overall.

Essentially I don't think I will ever run in the same league as Superclass but I do believe I could be competitive in Unlimited. Other than 2 boats that are waiting for their qualification up to Superclass, most of the Unimited Boats are definitely beat-able.

Look at last Sunday's results:
Superclass
35:14 (Av speed 103.83mph)
35:39 (Av speed 102.66mph)
36:34 (Av speed 100.09mph)

Unlimited
38:03 (Av speed 96.16mph)
38:08 (Av speed 95.98mph)
Both of these boats are Superclass in waiting, now the others:
42:03
42:42
42:48
44:20

Here's the interesting part. We have a class called MOC (Modified, Open Cockpit). This is a single O/B class where you can do what ever you like tothe motor. Darren Spencer of ACE Racing is the king in this field and he ran well enough to be 9th overall. The hull he runs is a Lab similar to the photos above of Ragin Bull. He also said that becasue the skier had to follow a boat with no wash he couldn't push as hard as he wanted to.

MOC
41:43 (Av speed 87.73mph)

In other words, he beat all but the top 2 runners in Unlimited!

Surely there is a combination I can find in the USA that will get me up into a podium finish in Unlimited...


I will post up more questions and details next week when I'm not so pissed about losing all the information I've already typed. In the mean time, hope you guys have a great weekend and I look forward to digging deeper into these Stoker hulls next week and asking more questions.

Thanks for your help so far!

Oz:thumbsup

 

[knuckle head]

Hi Fellas...

Can someone explain to me the different Stoker models please...

jackpunx - good pics of the boat with the yellow stripes - is that a 224?

knuckle head - awesome pics to show me the details of the hull - which model is that?


Oz:thumbsup

Hey Oz,

First off welcome to RDP

Jackpunx's Boat and the pictures I posted of my old boat are both the "224 model" Boardsmnj's boat is the "22 Model" and then you have a 20.4 model


Left to Right 224, 22, 20.4, 20.4

 

[River Lynchmob]

Welcome Oz Dude...

You are going to find the Lab so be substantially lighter than say a 20' Stoker. You also fly a lab a lot more than you would a Stoker. A freind of mine used to own Alibi when he owed a lot of the records in the 175 class. I think the Stoker is a very good hull and they used to race a few them over here in the outboard class.

I have ridden in a number of Stokers and they are a pretty fogiving boat I know Jackpunx boat has run over 140 with about 1200 hp and a bravo drive. He would be the best guy to talk to about turning at speed. I do think a properly set up Stoker could be competitive in unlimited once you get that sanbagger Robo and Agitator out of unlimited

You are right about the Force boats and they are amazing we have a nuumber of them running Formula 2 over here and Howard Hoggins has one with a PFM TT and # 6 drive unbelievable boat. I can't wait to see how Greg does with the new Stinga. Just a side note my dad pulled Jack Houston in the Catalina ski race last year and will be pulling him again next year.

There is a lot of knowledge on these boards about everything you can think of so keep the ? s coming and I'm sure you'll get very good answers.

Have a good one!!!

 

[stokerwhore]

stokerwhore - you think the boat will turn if trimmed under but it sucks up HP. How much HP you running and how much do you think it would take?

it will also turn trimmed flat or nuetral trim. i cant speak from experience because i've never pulled a skier the speeds your talking about. whole different realm.power wont be an issue. mine has 800hp but you'd need more. a big turbo motor would do it but as was previously stated you want to have a beefy drive.as far as turning its like anyothetr boat the harder you turn the more power your gonna need. i dont think your going around any single pin turns and i doubt that would be the issue. Stokers turn VERY well.

history- stokers started out as an outboard race boat. they're derived from the baker tunnel. in the 1990's ther were two main sellers in the stoker line up the 20 sst and the 22sst. about 1996(?) or so the epa(treehuggers) got the big v8 evenrude twostroke outboard outlawed. so Stoker started building them as I/O's. to the surprise of a few in the industry(mercury) these worked rediculously well! in 2001(?) the top half of the mold was re-tooled to be more i/o friendly and the 224 was born. 8" more freeboard. in a minute i'll go find Al Stoker's shop number. it's 9:17 am here and he open 17 minutes ago. he's the builder and would have the best insight.

....or we could get lynch behind my boat tomorrow if he feels sassy?????

 

[RiverDave]

Welcome Oz Dude...

You are going to find the Lab so be substantially lighter than say a 20' Stoker.

I think Al will build him whatever he wants?

RD

 

[Riverbound]

al wrote his email address on my invoice when I pickd up my boat but it got wet and cant read it anymore ( I was going to send him a link to this thread) Here is his shop number. 714-827-7920

 

[Riverbound]

I think Al will build him whatever he wants?

RD

There are some pretty light stokers out there.

 

[RiverDave]

Oz Dude is off for the weekend and won't be back until monday..

I've been thinking about this, and I think a Stoker would do VERY WELL in this application.. And I think if the boat was built a bit light, and didn't have all the shit in it that a pleasure boat does.. I question the need for "gobs" of horse power either?

I think 800 - 1000 HP? Would get him pretty close to where he wants to be?

I don't even think he needs a 6 drive or anything of the sort? I think you could do this with a Bravo Drive if it was built..

RD

 

[obnoxious001]

i dont think your going around any single pin turns and i doubt that would be the issue.

I need to bring the Southern 80 DVD this weekend, it will surprise you the turns they make!