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My daughter lost her car again

boatnam2

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So a few months ago i wrote a thread about how my daugters boyfriend got followed home by a few guys and they took the car he was driving which just happens to be my car or daughters car at the time. With the help of a few board members i was able to get it out of impound and get my $700 bucks back from the county. So the fck did it again except this time he was driving it on a suspended license, which to my understanding is a automatic 30 day hold unless he gets a sr22(isn't happening) but i don't understand why the car is not his and the car is insured? So now she can get it back after 30 days if i give her the $1800 to get it out, what would you guys do? I have already made my decision just like to here the peanuts gallery's view, few things of note she has a 2 month old baby, goes to nursing school full time, i just spent 2200 bucks on a new motor for it and she isn't leaving this guy!
 

Cole Trickle

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So a few months ago i wrote a thread about how my daugters boyfriend got followed home by a few guys and they took the car he was driving which just happens to be my car or daughters car at the time. With the help of a few board members i was able to get it out of impound and get my $700 bucks back from the county. So the fck did it again except this time he was driving it on a suspended license, which to my understanding is a automatic 30 day hold unless he gets a sr22(isn't happening) but i don't understand why the car is not his and the car is insured? So now she can get it back after 30 days if i give her the $1800 to get it out, what would you guys do? I have already made my decision just like to here the peanuts gallery's view, few things of note she has a 2 month old baby, goes to nursing school full time, i just spent 2200 bucks on a new motor for it and she isn't leaving this guy!

leave it there....they can figure it out:)

The fact that the car is hers and its insured is irrelevant if she is letting someone else drive it...he's unlicensed and should be off the street so someone is going to pay

Hopefully it's out of your name;)
 

LomitaBob

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one way around this I believe is, IF you or her have the title add your self on as a lien holder then wait a few days, show up at the tow company and tell them you are there to REPO the car.you may also call the PD talk to the watch commander and exlpain to him that you kid owes you money on the car and is proably gonna walk and leave it at the tow company, ask them if there is any way for you to "repo" the car to recoup your funds
 

shintoooo

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Suck to hear but she is an adult. You keep helping her out and she is never going to figure it out by herself. Time to cut off the financial help and let her figure out how to survive in this world by herself. I am speaking from experience. I was a dad 8 months after I graduted high school and it was hard but I got it done and she can too but not if you keep helping her out financially. Good Luck.
 

wsuwrhr

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.............. and she isn't leaving this guy!

leave it there....they can figure it out:)


Hard deal for sure.

It is your daughter and granddaughter, so there are no easy answers. The problem is in your last sentence.

CT and Shintoo have the best advice, although it is the hardest to swallow.

Brian
 
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boatnam2

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leave it there....they can figure it out:)

The fact that the car is hers and its insured is irrelevant if she is letting someone else drive it...he's unlicensed and should be off the street so someone is going to pay

Hopefully it's out of your name;)

Yea i took it out of my name and made sure the car was insured(me payng) in her name after the last fiasco...Im thinking like you she has figured it out for 2 week so far and is doing fine, her mom isn't so high on this idea though:D always great to get to argue with the ex wife every once in awhile if if you haven't seen her in 11 years.
 

SBMech

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Go over there and beat the holy living crap out of the worthless piece of shit for endangering and stranding your daughter and grandchild. Make it clear that he has 2 choices : straighten up and fly right; or fuck off out of your daughters life.

Whatever he is up to he's obviously not got their best interests at heart, it's only going to end worse if he does not get his shit together.

Sorry to hear that man, hope it all works out. I've bounced more than one guy out of my sister's life, it does work. Just hurt them bad enough to understand that it will happen anytime you even think he's going to fuck with her or your grandchild.

You just gotta be prepared for a little jailtime :grumble::p
 

was thatguy

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This sounds similar to the DUI impound rules in some States.
Car "ownership" does not matter, IF the driver in violation has permission to drive it, specific or implied.
The ONLY way around it that I am aware of, and what I had to do, was supply signed affidavits that the car was taken without permission.
(My brother took it and got his umpteenth DUI)
It was presented to the ADA that not only was it without permission, but He was specifically forbidden to use the car.

You would have a hard time saying he took the car, since it sounds like he uses it all the time.

Edit: Just read that it isn't in your name.
Screw it.
 
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mrs. bordsmnj

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Why can't the baby daddy handle it? I am sure that Vato can russle up some money. ;)
 

Chili Palmer

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I thought the man of the (illegal) people, Villaragossa, passed that if the driver was pulled over and didn't have a license they would let him go if someone licensed could drive the car away. If that's the case the car may have been impounded illegally.

This may only be an LA City deal.
 

boatnam2

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Go over there and beat the holy living crap out of the worthless piece of shit for endangering and stranding your daughter and grandchild. Make it clear that he has 2 choices : straighten up and fly right; or fuck off out of your daughters life.

Whatever he is up to he's obviously not got their best interests at heart, it's only going to end worse if he does not get his shit together.

Sorry to hear that man, hope it all works out. I've bounced more than one guy out of my sister's life, it does work. Just hurt them bad enough to understand that it will happen anytime you even think he's going to fuck with her or your grandchild.

You just gotta be prepared for a little jailtime :grumble::p

Yea sounds good, wish i was that kinda guy but Im not...She lives with him and all his family and is pretty happy with the whole situation Im guessing, plus they watch the baby while she goes to school so that is the main reason I don't really want to rock the boat too much, I just want her to get her nursing deal under her belt so she can support her baby by herself.
 

HolyMoly

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I thought the man of the (illegal) people, Villaragossa, passed that if the driver was pulled over and didn't have a license they would let him go if someone licensed could drive the car away. If that's the case the car may have been impounded illegally.

This may only be an LA City deal.


May have to claim he is illega.....I mean "undocumented" :p
 

boatnam2

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Why can't the baby daddy handle it? I am sure that Vato can russle up some money. ;)

I wish he would #2 but that isn't happening...I told her to have him get a job down the street so he don't have to drive a car....preferrably at KFC or something so they can at least get some free fried chicken.
 

HolyMoly

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I wish he would #2 but that isn't happening...I told her to have him get a job down the street so he don't have to drive a car....preferrably at KFC or something so they can at least get some free fried chicken.

afro_ninja_emoticon_by_MenInASuitcase.gif
 

boatnam2

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Wow its snowing hard! Anyone need a good worker in the downtown riverside area hit me up, i got one ready to go;)
 

rivrrts429

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Here's an opportunity to let her see who her boyfriend really is.

Currently she has made the boyfriends problem YOUR problem, by thinking you'll bail her out of a situation her boyfriend got her in.

Although you've spent all the money on the car already it might turn out to be cheaper in the end if you leave the car and tell her she needs to get the money from the boyfriend to get it out.

After all it's most likely she was aware he was driving on a suspended, and still let him take the risk.

I say leave it and let them fight it out amongst themselves. Tough love is just that, Tough. But might result in some better decision making down the road.
 

Carlson-jet

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It looks like you have 30 days to make a point. You realize next time they keep it right? Tell them no dice and they have to deal with it as it drags along but be supportive. If his family is worth more then a sack of shit they will be forced to help him out or look like turds in a bag. I know you know there is a much bigger issue here then a car being 30 days in the hole. Dude needs to take care of why he has no license or stop getting behind the wheel. Driving on a suspended starts getting pretty serious after a few rounds. He will be spending time in jail without a doubt if he continues on this course.
 

boatnam2

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It looks like you have 30 days to make a point. You realize next time they keep it right? Tell them no dice and they have to deal with it as it drags along but be supportive. If his family is worth more then a sack of shit they will be forced to help him out or look like turds in a bag. I know you know there is a much bigger issue here then a car being 30 days in the hole. Dude needs to take care of why he has no license or stop getting behind the wheel. Driving on a suspended starts getting pretty serious after a few rounds. He will be spending time in jail without a doubt if he continues on this course.

When i went throught the last deal I had told her this is it you take the risk you take the fall and to her credit she hasn't asked for help to get it back. So hard to tell someone you love that going down this road is not going to be smooth but your 18 and want to do it go ahead but leave me out of it.
 

wsuwrhr

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Dude needs to take care of why he has no license or stop getting behind the wheel. Driving on a suspended starts getting pretty serious after a few rounds. He will be spending time in jail without a doubt if he continues on this course.

Yep. Dude needs to learn how to start taking care of HIS family.
 

dread Pirate

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Pretty sure the 30 day thing was ruled "unconstitutional" as you are being charged for the same crime twice. Fined for driving on a suspended lic and charging a ridiculous amount for impound. Huntington Beach/O.C. tried to pull this about 5 years ago on me. Call from my attorney got it dropped quick.
 

McRib

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If the car is her name she should go to the PD and see if she can get it back. Shes got a 50/50 chance. Riverside agenceys will prob say no because she willing and knowingly let him take the car. That will be the stance they take. She can plead her case to the WC and say she just found out about the suspended licence due to this incident. Play the new born card and only vehicle card. Its worth a shot. Shes gonna learn the hard way with this guy and if she gets the car he will just take it again and she will let him. It will get impounded again and again. They wont keep it. They will give it back after every 30 day hold and keep giving it back as long as they are willing to pay to get it out. If they leave it after the 30 days are up it will be sold at a lien auction and what ever fees are not recouped will be sent to collections on the registered owner.
 

Carlson-jet

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It will get impounded again and again. They wont keep it. They will give it back after every 30 day hold and keep giving it back as long as they are willing to pay to get it out. If they leave it after the 30 days are up it will be sold at a lien auction and what ever fees are not recouped will be sent to collections on the registered owner.

When I lived out there it was 3 strikes on the impounds with suspended license. Have they changed the laws?
 

McRib

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When I lived out there it was 3 strikes on the impounds with suspended license. Have they changed the laws?

I work for a tow company and dont know anything about that. We have multiple offenders all the time. I suppose its at the impounding agency.

We have a guy thats been in here 5 diff times for 3 diff 30 day holds from ontario PD. So idk if there is any law any more.
 

j540

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Yea sounds good, wish i was that kinda guy but Im not...She lives with him and all his family and is pretty happy with the whole situation Im guessing, plus they watch the baby while she goes to school so that is the main reason I don't really want to rock the boat too much, I just want her to get her nursing deal under her belt so she can support her baby by herself.

Go to the house and kick the shit outa all of them, Start with who ever answers the door first.

Sounds like his family is a big shit pile for not busting his ball's.
Bad thing is, I know how hard Nursing school is, and how promising it can be in the end, My wife is going thru it now
and if she fails it, it will be a long wait to get back in. And if she doesn't get killer grades it mite be hard to get a job.
been thru something similar.
Hope it works out for her and the baby. Meybe her friends will help open her eyes.
 

wsuwrhr

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When i went throught the last deal I had told her this is it you take the risk you take the fall and to her credit she hasn't asked for help to get it back. So hard to tell someone you love that going down this road is not going to be smooth but your 18 and want to do it go ahead but leave me out of it.


Yes sir.

I don't want to be in your shoes.

My youngest brother called me for help on Friday as he is having his own created issues and after a few minutes I had to hang up. I spent 10K with my wife not in full approval to show him that I cared and help him stay out of jail when he finally found out that trouble you get into when you don't live right is gets REAL, real quickly. He did OK for a couple years, but not great.

Fast forward 5 years later he didn't learn his lession and is looking at jailtime.

I hung up on him
 

McRib

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Pretty sure the 30 day thing was ruled "unconstitutional" as you are being charged for the same crime twice. Fined for driving on a suspended lic and charging a ridiculous amount for impound. Huntington Beach/O.C. tried to pull this about 5 years ago on me. Call from my attorney got it dropped quick.

Not unconstitutional imo. Here is the 30 day laws.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d06/vc14602_6.htm

The tow fees are not part of the fine for driving on a suspended. Its a separate entity having nothing to do with the citation or the courts. The tow fee is not the expensive part. Its the daily storage fees we are allowed to charge which are approved by the agencys we tow for in the tow service agreements.
 

DaveC

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You are such a nice Dad. :p. Where were you when I was a kid? :D

Here is what I would do if it was my kid.

I would take the $1800 and buy thug life junior a bus pass then take the remainder of the money and take my wife and I on vacation. ;). The kids might have it sorted out by the time you get back ;). Tell jr to leave the daughters car alone until he gets his shit together

I can tell that you are such a nice man you might harbor some guilt. So maybe you buy them something they desperately need. Diapers and formula for a baby that age are expensive. Go buy them a shitload of diapers and formula. That should take care of your guilt :D
 
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RitcheyRch

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Like has been said already, leave the car and let them figure it out on their own.
 

dread Pirate

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Not unconstitutional imo. Here is the 30 day laws.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d06/vc14602_6.htm

The tow fees are not part of the fine for driving on a suspended. Its a separate entity having nothing to do with the citation or the courts. The tow fee is not the expensive part. Its the daily storage fees we are allowed to charge which are approved by the agencys we tow for in the tow service agreements.

The way it's written the tow company gets the $ and they should. They have the car etc. No argument there. However the big picture is the person has to pay out twice for the same "crime" . Not to the same agency, so it's not really a fine, but it sure seems like it's used as one. Tow companies have a rough job. They rarely get to deal with happy people.

In may case OC had once again, happens all the f'ing time, did not report my child support payments and my license was suspended without my knowledge. I'm still dealing with them on the issue. She's 22, living with her b-friend and dropped out of college, but I'm still paying support to her mom??? I hate OC!!


I wish the best for your daughter and hope she learns from this one.
 

ka0tyk

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id say take the car and sell it if its worth the money, otherwise just let it go and get your name off of it.

whats worse? they struggle for a little while and get their life together and priorities straight...or they rearend someone with no license, no insurance, no registration and get into a $100k lawsuit and dad goes to jail and the child then has no father.

maybe the fact that shes going to struggle while riding the bus will knock some sense into her that she needs to move into the REAL world with the rest of us. if you want to help, get her a bus pass and a check into reality.
 

McRib

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The way it's written the tow company gets the $ and they should. They have the car etc. No argument there. However the big picture is the person has to pay out twice for the same "crime" . Not to the same agency, so it's not really a fine, but it sure seems like it's used as one. Tow companies have a rough job. They rarely get to deal with happy people.

In may case OC had once again, happens all the f'ing time, did not report my child support payments and my license was suspended without my knowledge. I'm still dealing with them on the issue. She's 22, living with her b-friend and dropped out of college, but I'm still paying support to her mom??? I hate OC!!


I wish the best for your daughter and hope she learns from this one.

We deal with angry degenerates on a daily basis. Its actually funny. Dont be pissed at me cause ur an idiot not flyin straight. Ur situation is far and few. Ur in a less than 5%tile and tbe system is hardest for guys like you. Meanwhile johnny no license is out drivin around without a care in the world.
 

djunkie

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Unfortunately nowadays we can't get away with the whole ass kicking thing. Hopefully it all works out.


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460

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Have you tried a good old man to man with this cat. I'm not one for violence but this guy needs the shit sacred out of him
 

RUNNINHOTRACING163.1

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Go over there and beat the holy living crap out of the worthless piece of shit for endangering and stranding your daughter and grandchild. Make it clear that he has 2 choices : straighten up and fly right; or fuck off out of your daughters life.

Whatever he is up to he's obviously not got their best interests at heart, it's only going to end worse if he does not get his shit together.

Sorry to hear that man, hope it all works out. I've bounced more than one guy out of my sister's life, it does work. Just hurt them bad enough to understand that it will happen anytime you even think he's going to fuck with her or your grandchild.

You just gotta be prepared for a little jailtime :grumble::p

+100 & a bail bond card :thumbsup







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Flyinbowtie

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To the OP.
I feel for you, there is not a helluva lot you can do at this point. Your daughter doesn't listen to you when it comes to keeping him out of the car, you've said she isn't going to leave him, and he is the father of your grandchild. Other than SBMech's suggestion, which has some merit, the only thing you can do is try to keep your daughter and grandchild safe from this asshole.
I know this much, that car would sit in impound. He caused the problem, let him find a fix for it.
If there is a life/death or critical need for your daughter and grandchild to be somewhere, then she can call and you can find a way. But enabling her so she can enable him is going to be a lifelong event if you don't stop it now.
 

SKIDMARC

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Sucks...Bad situation.......This time she and her sounds like soon to be Husband need to figure this out. If you keeping bailing them out they will never learn. Regaurdless of the $$. The lesson is the important thing. Especially as new parents it is important for them to learn in this day and age. I mean its only a $1800 lesson. Hopfully it will prevent a even more expensive mistake.
 

pronstar

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This might not be helpful, and I don't have kids so take it for what it's worth...

The government (local, via the PD) took her car. Again.

You daughter didn't "lose her car" - this implies that it's gone thru no fault of her own.

Maybe it would frame it better if you stated "my daughter's repeated poor decision-making caused her car to be taken from her"

At some point, she needs to own up and take her licks for the consequences of her actions. Sounds like she's going down a bad life path, and at some point you will tire of allowing her problems to become yours.




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boatnam2

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This might not be helpful, and I don't have kids so take it for what it's worth...

The government (local, via the PD) took her car. Again.

You daughter didn't "lose her car" - this implies that it's gone thru no fault of her own.

Maybe it would frame it better if you stated "my daughter's repeated poor decision-making caused her car to be taken from her"

At some point, she needs to own up and take her licks for the consequences of her actions. Sounds like she's going down a bad life path, and at some point you will tire of allowing her problems to become yours.




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Yea she didn't lose it for sure, she had it taken away on a poor decision she made...Now i will tell what i have decided to do, i usally spend on her 400 bucks for christmas and a couple hundred for a birthday which is on dec 23 her mother (my ex) usally does about the same so that is 1200 bucks. I think her mother is going to throw in the rest so she will skate one more time plus i don't have to bother going christmas shopping this year.
 

boatnam2

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We deal with angry degenerates on a daily basis. Its actually funny. Dont be pissed at me cause ur an idiot not flyin straight. Ur situation is far and few. Ur in a less than 5%tile and tbe system is hardest for guys like you. Meanwhile johnny no license is out drivin around without a care in the world.

I will say this, when i picked up the car the first time the tow yard does make you feel like a fcking felon...Probably why there in a block building with a 6" opening.
 

RitcheyRch

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Hopefully it doesnt get taken away again. Just seems like you are throwing good money after bad.


Yea she didn't lose it for sure, she had it taken away on a poor decision she made...Now i will tell what i have decided to do, i usally spend on her 400 bucks for christmas and a couple hundred for a birthday which is on dec 23 her mother (my ex) usally does about the same so that is 1200 bucks. I think her mother is going to throw in the rest so she will skate one more time plus i don't have to bother going christmas shopping this year.
 

t&y

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So a few months ago i wrote a thread about how my daugters boyfriend got followed home by a few guys and they took the car he was driving which just happens to be my car or daughters car at the time. With the help of a few board members i was able to get it out of impound and get my $700 bucks back from the county. So the fck did it again except this time he was driving it on a suspended license, which to my understanding is a automatic 30 day hold unless he gets a sr22(isn't happening) but i don't understand why the car is not his and the car is insured? So now she can get it back after 30 days if i give her the $1800 to get it out, what would you guys do? I have already made my decision just like to here the peanuts gallery's view, few things of note she has a 2 month old baby, goes to nursing school full time, i just spent 2200 bucks on a new motor for it and she isn't leaving this guy!

If he is driving on a suspended and there is proof of service it is 100% legal for the police to impound the vehicle for 30 days per 14602.6 CVC. LAPD apparently has a policy against it now with a few exceptions but most other agency's are still doing it. Adding yourself as a Lien Holder or Buying the car while in impound and trying to get it out will not work. It is all about what is going on at the time of the stop. You can have a meeting with the Watch Commander and try to get it out early but really unless the stellar boyfriend is going to get his license prior to that meeting you will be out of luck.

The other time this thing went down was a way different scenario. This is all on the turd of a boyfriend. If your daughter insists on supporting his actions I say let her do it on her dime and not yours. Or how about this the turd is the one who was driving HIS family bail the two out;) Do what you're gonna do, just realize she's not going to wake up until you let her figure it out on her own. Good luck.
 

SBMech

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To the OP.
I feel for you, there is not a helluva lot you can do at this point. Your daughter doesn't listen to you when it comes to keeping him out of the car, you've said she isn't going to leave him, and he is the father of your grandchild. Other than SBMech's suggestion, which has some merit, the only thing you can do is try to keep your daughter and grandchild safe from this asshole.
I know this much, that car would sit in impound. He caused the problem, let him find a fix for it.
If there is a life/death or critical need for your daughter and grandchild to be somewhere, then she can call and you can find a way. But enabling her so she can enable him is going to be a lifelong event if you don't stop it now.

My only hope is that after you bail her out this time, you make it clear that this is it: there will be no more help when her man decides to be a dumbshit and force her to loose her freedom....and have to ride the fucking bus.

Good luck Boatnam, this is a really shitty situation. I am sending positive thoughts your way man!
 

Cole Trickle

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I say you put the $$ in an account for the grandkid. Start throwing some cash in the acct and hive it to the kid for his 18th. If the parents want to make bad decisions thats on them but the kid should have some $$$ in the Bank for college when the time comes:thumbup::)

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So a few months ago i wrote a thread about how my daugters boyfriend got followed home by a few guys and they took the car he was driving which just happens to be my car or daughters car at the time. With the help of a few board members i was able to get it out of impound and get my $700 bucks back from the county. So the fck did it again except this time he was driving it on a suspended license, which to my understanding is a automatic 30 day hold unless he gets a sr22(isn't happening) but i don't understand why the car is not his and the car is insured? So now she can get it back after 30 days if i give her the $1800 to get it out, what would you guys do? I have already made my decision just like to here the peanuts gallery's view, few things of note she has a 2 month old baby, goes to nursing school full time, i just spent 2200 bucks on a new motor for it and she isn't leaving this guy!


My plan, I'd go pick up the car, and drive it straight over to one of those places that installs the device that prevents a car from starting when the driver is drunk. Tell the father to not use it ever. Tell the father he is going to be working for you around the house every other weekend until his bill is paid off. Your daughter can drive him, and she can help your wife around the house, while you and the wife get some grand kid time;)
 

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Boyfriend needs to be found in a dumpster, In Compton
 

troostr

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Boyfriend needs to be found in a dumpster, In Compton

Then he has no chance to learn.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: Baseball bats have a way of teaching invaluable lessons. You already know (but may not realize) that you don't need to be the one that introduces the guy to the bat. The kid will eventually heal and for the rest of his life a limp will remind him of his responsablities. Unfortunatly, your daughters choices are affected by those of her BF. Water seeks it's own level. It's a shame that his "level" seems far below hers. Her choices will improve with his, or without him. Good for you in helping your daughter. I don't envy your situation and it's easy to be on the outside playing armchair QB. Best of luck to you and your family.
 

boatsntoys

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Tough love. In this case it may be tougher on you then her. Because of the baby, help with all non monetary means (drive her to work, watch the baby Etc.) It will disrupt your life. But, giving money is the easy way out for you, at least for a short while. However, it teachs her nothing. She will hate being dependent on you and your time frames. you have to make it hard, at least in some sense. You sound very concerned, especially with the baby involved. Are you willing to sacrafice ? OR only willing to sacrafice some $$$ to show your concern?
 
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Ryphraph

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Sorry you are going through this stuff man!

Ryph
 

OCMerrill

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I never gave up and neither can you, it's your child no matter what. It's her program, but eventually she will get the idea, maybe. Have lots of patience and try to hang in there, sounds like they help with the baby, so it's not all bad. Continue to look on the bright side as you did and if nothing else you'll feel good. :)
Oh by the way, u'd better pick up the car or it might stay there and her money now goes to his xmas. Trust me on this one.


I agree with this. If the OP has the funds you might want to consider getting the car out before the yard files and sells it. Adding to his profit margin.

Now if it's not worth more than a couple grand then it might be best to let the kids watch the car go bye.
 

UAV.Pilot

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So a few months ago i wrote a thread about how my daugters boyfriend got followed home by a few guys and they took the car he was driving which just happens to be my car or daughters car at the time. With the help of a few board members i was able to get it out of impound and get my $700 bucks back from the county. So the fck did it again except this time he was driving it on a suspended license, which to my understanding is a automatic 30 day hold unless he gets a sr22(isn't happening) but i don't understand why the car is not his and the car is insured? So now she can get it back after 30 days if i give her the $1800 to get it out, what would you guys do? I have already made my decision just like to here the peanuts gallery's view, few things of note she has a 2 month old baby, goes to nursing school full time, i just spent 2200 bucks on a new motor for it and she isn't leaving this guy!

Word for word this happened to me with my 21yr old daughter. Except they "the boyfriend" totaled it after getting it impounded. If she was not going to nursing school and had a kid I would not have wanted to help anymore.

Get the car back and park it, Baby or not she is choosing HIM over you and always will...let HIM get her a car...she will soon be crawling on her knees for you to help...

just my .02cents

My daughter by the way Married him and has a year and a half of her nursing school left until she is an RN...try to talk to the kid...really it might be better for the both of you, make him work off the debt
 
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