My 2 months of being an electric car owner

[Cole Trickle]

I'm curious if over time/aging the battery will start to deplete quicker.

Every rechargeable device I own (cell phones, tool, etc) start out holding a great charge when new, but over time they seem to deplete quicker than when they were new.

No idea but they have a very good extended warranty on batteries.

I will only have it for another 33 months

Maybe next time I will get the 2 door caddy

 

[Sleek-Jet]

The Caddy looks pretty cool. One of my neighbors has the Lexus version of the Prius... way less hippy-dippy looking and it has a very nice interior.

I could make several round trips to work on a single charge, it has been very tempting not to go trade the Bimmer off...

 

[pronstar]

I'm curious if over time/aging the battery will start to deplete quicker.

Every rechargeable device I own (cell phones, tool, etc) start out holding a great charge when new, but over time they seem to deplete quicker than when they were new.

It's a tricky comparison.
That's because every device you've mentioned, uses 100% of it's battery's capacity.
So you go from full charge, to no charge, to full charge...lather, rinse, repeat.

EV batteries are hideously expensive, so carmakers manage their state of charge (SOC) quite differently.
The battery is never 100% full, and it is never 100% depleted.
They all vary, but they typically stay within around 40% - 80% SOC.

This is true for plug-in hybrids with gas engines for backup...full EV's use much more of their battery capacity, and we're seeing a lot more degradation over time.
Google Nissan Leaf battery and you'll find a lot of reports on this.

By managing this SOC, the batteries have been lasting almost indefinitely in the field, at least for NiMH batteries.
Toyota is on 6 generations, and over a decade, of NiMH battery data, and independent studies are also proving this to be true.

LiIon batteries so far are following in this trend, but they don't have as much data at this point.

The biggest issue that's causing battery degradation for plug-in hybrids is rapid-charging.
Here's a good discussion of it:
http://simanaitissays.com/2014/03/16/quick-charge-quick-degradation/

 

[Boat 405]

I found the numbers I was looking for regarding the volt battery.

It has as 16 kwh battery but goes 35 miles in all electric mode. It does not use 100% of battery capacity.

The EPA rating for electric only is 36 kwh per 100 miles

So a 35 mile range requires 12.5 kwh recharge. At $0.33 a kwh thats $4 a day

Thats cheaper than my car but my mileage sux but a high mileage TDI would be comparable

Now if I can only figure out how to steal electricity from work

$4 per 35 miles is about 1 gallon of fuel then. Just remember when you burn fuel in your car you lose efficiency once. When you use electricity in your car you lose efficiency twice. Once to burn fuel to make electricity. Then again when you use it in your car to go down the road. Charging your battery actually loses efficiency too. Ever put your hand on your golf cart battery charger when charging. It gets pretty hot. Heat is energy lost.

 

[pronstar]

One of my neighbors has the Lexus version of the Prius... way less hippy-dippy looking and it has a very nice interior.

FYI - the Lexus CT uses the Prius drivetrain, but little else is shared with the Prius.
The CT is a much better-driving car, it has a premium platform and underpinnings...plus a Lexus interior.

 

[pronstar]

$4 per 35 miles is about 1 gallon of fuel then. Just remember when you burn fuel in your car you lose efficiency once. When you use electricity in your car you lose efficiency twice. Once to burn fuel to make electricity. Then again when you use it in your car to go down the road. Charging your battery actually loses efficiency too. Ever put your hand on your golf cart battery charger when charging. It gets pretty hot. Heat is energy lost.

And internal combustion engines have cooling systems and exhaust that radiate 60+ percent of gasoline's energy to the atmosphere as heat...so not sure what you're saying here?


Edit:
I think I see what you're saying...but plug-in hybrids use gas to propel the car down the road mechanically...in spite of Chevy's earlier claims to the contrary.
They don't use gas to fully-charge a deplete battery, that would be very inefficient.

 

[Enen]

What I'm reading here is after 2 months of being gay, you are coming out of the closet.


<--------- looking for a fuel efficient daily driver.

 

[Boat 405]

And internal combustion engines have cooling systems and exhaust that radiate 60+ percent of gasoline's energy to the atmosphere as heat...so not sure what you're saying here?


Edit:
I think I see what you're saying...but plug-in hybrids use gas to propel the car down the road mechanically...in spite of Chevy's earlier claims to the contrary.
They don't use gas to fully-charge a deplete battery, that would be very inefficient.

Let's talk strictly electric vehicles to clarify. Forget about the hybrids

First loss. Fossil fuels to generate electricity.
2nd loss. Charging your car.
Third loss. Driving your car.

All of these operations create heat.

Now a gas car only has one loss.
First loss. Driving the car.

 

[Cole Trickle]

Where do you think electricity comes from to charge your car at night? Fossil fuels.

I could careless about the smog implications of gas versus electric cars.

For me the choice was purely fiscal.

 

[Rivertoys]

I could careless about the smog implications of gas versus electric cars.

For me the choice was purely fiscal.

:hmm ....... if male prostitutes were cheaper, you'd go that route? :eek

(sorry I can't stop myself) :smackhead

 

[pronstar]

Where do you think electricity comes from to charge your car at night? Fossil fuels.

And I care about this...why?
I'm not running a gas generator to charge my car, I'm plugging it onto a wall and buying the electricity super-cheap to do so.
90 cents to get me as far as $5 in gasoline on my way to work.
My company pays for the electricity to get me home.

So instead of paying around $10 in gasoline everyday to commute, I pay around 90 cents.

I could careless about the smog implications of gas versus electric cars.

For me the choice was purely fiscal.

Exactly.
That's what sealed the deal for me as well.
I'm not making some green statement...I'm saving money.

 

[Boat 405]

I could careless about the smog implications of gas versus electric cars.

For me the choice was purely fiscal.

I agree with you. I'm just saying that when you plug in your car at night that electricity comes from fossil fuels. Like an enormous power plant.

A generator to charge your car pronstar? Really?:yikes

 

[Cole Trickle]

:hmm ....... if male prostitutes were cheaper, you'd go that route? :eek

(sorry I can't stop myself) :smackhead

Your posts are coming off a tad transexual buddy...lol

 

[pronstar]

I agree with you. I'm just saying that when you plug in your car at night that electricity comes from fossil fuels. Like an enormous power plant.

A generator to charge your car pronstar? Really?:yikes

That's basically how a locomotive operates - diesel generator to generate electricity to power wheel motors.

BTW - I totally see what you're saying.
Each step in converting energy into another form, causes energy to be lost.

A big issue we see with internal combustion, is inefficiency.
Toyota has optimized their next-gen gasoline engine for the Prius to be 40% efficient.
Which means 60% is wasted to heat and friction (which is also heat).
But electric motors are 90%+ efficient.

A while back, some carmakers and oil companies experimented with gasoline fuel cells to generate electricity.
They were 90%+ efficient...
But they were super expensive, and were easily poisoned by impurities inherent in gasoline at the pump.

 

[HolyMoly]

CT - you are aware that there is no award for gayest thread of the year?

 

[DaveC]

Thanks for your takes on the all electric cars. :thumbup:

What I learned today is that I am getting fawking ripped off paying for my electricity. thumbsdown
And I don't even use that much (less than 600 KWH per year)


IMHO if I had to get a commuter car I think I would get a fossil-fuel burner but opt for a less Brown-ish car and give up 10 MPG or so and go for a 30 MPG range car like an A4 or 3 series (diesel or 4 banger) Still better economy and less stigma.

 

[Cole Trickle]

CT - you are aware that there is no award for gayest thread of the year?

Why not?

This is more entertaining and informative than anything yellow boat or milk money related.

 

[Cole Trickle]

Thanks for your takes on the all electric cars. :thumbup:

What I learned today is that I am getting fawking ripped off paying for my electricity. thumbsdown
And I don't even use that much (less than 600 KWH per year)


IMHO if I had to get a commuter car I think I would get a fossil-fuel burner but opt for a less Brown-ish car and give up 10 MPG or so and go for a 30 MPG range car like an A4 or 3 series (diesel or 4 banger) Still better economy and less stigma.

The volt would be perfect for you. They are typically owned by high net worth people and we all know accountants are rich

 

[Sleek-Jet]

FYI - the Lexus CT uses the Prius drivetrain, but little else is shared with the Prius.
The CT is a much better-driving car, it has a premium platform and underpinnings...plus a Lexus interior.

I knew there were differences. It's a very well executed car.

 

[was thatguy]

 

[pronstar]

The volt would be perfect for you. They are typically owned by high net worth people and we all know accountants are rich

I just got my hair cut at the new Floyd's Barbershop in Belmont Shore.
The chick transferred from Hermosa Beach.

The biggest difference between Hermosa and Belmont Shore, according to her?
In Hermosa, all the rich people drive BMW's.
In Belmont Shore, they all drive hybrids

 

[JDKRXW]

$4 per 35 miles is about 1 gallon of fuel then. Just remember when you burn fuel in your car you lose efficiency once. When you use electricity in your car you lose efficiency twice. Once to burn fuel to make electricity. Then again when you use it in your car to go down the road. Charging your battery actually loses efficiency too. Ever put your hand on your golf cart battery charger when charging. It gets pretty hot. Heat is energy lost.

I think you need to sit down and think about this post.... then edit as necessary.:readpb:

 

[DaveC]

Maybe.

but we all claim that we are poor.

The volt would be perfect for you. They are typically owned by high net worth people and we all know accountants are rich

 

[was thatguy]

Funny stuff.

Electric cars and hybrids are the 8 track tape of transportation.

It's cool to save a few bucks here and there, but in the end they are only transferring energy company's "accounts receivable" into a more tidy stack.
Emissions on equipment...say...generators, are not regulated or taxed like vehicles.
Even the fuel is different, green and red diesel anyone?? Bueller??

Here's a tip. If you can steal electricity or pay to charge do it.
Before long, like a gas pump, the cost will be spread out over everyone as fossil fuel becomes cheaper to refine for industrial standard, more profit from the market, which will be, oh I don't know, PGE maybe?

When you see polar drive (magnet) become the headline...go all in.

 

[Boat 405]

I think you need to sit down and think about this post.... then edit as necessary.:readpb:

Ok, I'll clarify it for you.


Previous post stated by someone said, it was costing a him about $4 in electricity to drive his car 35 miles.

A gallon of gas costs roughly $4.

Let's talk strictly electric vehicles to clarify. Forget about the hybrids

First loss. Fossil fuels burned in a Power plant to generate electricity transferred to your house via local power company.
2nd loss. Charging your car from being plugged into your house, office, whatever.
Third loss. Driving your car.

All of these operations create heat.

Now a gas car only has one loss.
First loss. Driving the car.

I don't care if you like you electric vehicle or not. That is your choice and if you like it cool. If you don't then cool.

I'm just laying out the facts that electric cars don't live up to all the hype created in the idea that they get 99+mpg. Maybe you are stealing electricity, Maybe you charge at work. Maybe you get it free.

I'm saying

Electric Car A uses $4 in electricity to go 35 miles.

Gasoline Car A uses $4 in gasoline to go 35 miles.

There are more losses in efficiency for the electric car vs the gasoline car.


The true cost per mile driven using only energy cost saying for arguments sake the above numbers are true, the electric car is a loser.

A turbo diesel engine is the most efficient way to propel a vehicle currently. Energy from a combustion engine is broken down into thirds. Heat, exhaust and torque. 1/3 goes out the tail pipe, 1/3 goes out into the radiator, and lastly 1/3 goes out in the form of exhaust.

A turbo diesel engine harnesses some of that 1/3 going out the exhaust to turn it into torque (or twisting force to move the vehicle down the road)

 

[was thatguy]

Ok, I'll clarify it for you.


Previous post stated by someone said, it was costing a him about $4 in electricity to drive his car 35 miles.

A gallon of gas costs roughly $4.

Let's talk strictly electric vehicles to clarify. Forget about the hybrids

First loss. Fossil fuels burned in a Power plant to generate electricity transferred to your house via local power company.
2nd loss. Charging your car from being plugged into your house, office, whatever.
Third loss. Driving your car.

All of these operations create heat.

Now a gas car only has one loss.
First loss. Driving the car.

I don't care if you like you electric vehicle or not. That is your choice and if you like it cool. If you don't then cool.

I'm just laying out the facts that electric cars don't live up to all the hype created in the idea that they get 99+mpg. Maybe you are stealing electricity, Maybe you charge at work. Maybe you get it free.

I'm saying

Electric Car A uses $4 in electricity to go 35 miles.

Gasoline Car A uses $4 in gasoline to go 35 miles.

There are more losses in efficiency for the electric car vs the gasoline car.


The true cost per mile driven using only energy cost saying for arguments sake the above numbers are true, the electric car is a loser.

A turbo diesel engine is the most efficient way to propel a vehicle currently. Energy from a combustion engine is broken down into thirds. Heat, exhaust and torque. 1/3 goes out the tail pipe, 1/3 goes out into the radiator, and lastly 1/3 goes out in the form of exhaust.

A turbo diesel engine harnesses some of that 1/3 going out the exhaust to turn it into torque (or twisting force to move the vehicle down the road)

And emissions will increase along that file path also.
Like I opined, they solve nothing.

Best case scenario they DO increase conservation awareness, and at this exact point in time do lower emissions, albeit at a feel good level only.

But the bad thing is that being a stop gap,
This technology and research is in fact delaying the future solution.

Think about it. Electricity is GENERATED, by machine, solar, hydro, whatever the source it IS a secondary form of energy.

 

[pronstar]

I'm saying

Electric Car A uses $4 in electricity to go 35 miles.

Gasoline Car A uses $4 in gasoline to go 35 miles.

There are more losses in efficiency for the electric car vs the gasoline car.

The true cost per mile driven using only energy cost saying for arguments sake the above numbers are true, the electric car is a loser.

A turbo diesel engine is the most efficient way to propel a vehicle currently. Energy from a combustion engine is broken down into thirds. Heat, exhaust and torque. 1/3 goes out the tail pipe, 1/3 goes out into the radiator, and lastly 1/3 goes out in the form of exhaust.

A turbo diesel engine harnesses some of that 1/3 going out the exhaust to turn it into torque (or twisting force to move the vehicle down the road)

Not true at all.

There's actually more to it, but an electric car has it all over a diesel or gasoline car.
It's just harder to store electricity.

Using your example above:
An electric car uses 10kW of stored electricity to travel 35 miles.
A gasoline car uses a gallon of fuel - which contains 33kW of energy - to travel 35 miles.
A diesel car will be more efficient, so let's say one gallon of diesel - 37 kW - will allow it to travel 45 miles.

There's no comparison.

An electric engine that's 90% efficient will travel farther per unit of energy than any internal-combustion powered car, because an IC engine is extremely inefficient at converting stored energy to forward propulsion.
At best, they're sub-50% efficient and that's being extremely optimistic.

 

[was thatguy]

Not true at all.

There's actually more to it, but an electric car has it all over a diesel or gasoline car.
It's just harder to store electricity.

Using your example above:
An electric car uses 10kW of stored electricity to travel 35 miles.
A gasoline car uses a gallon of fuel - which contains 33kW of energy - to travel 35 miles.
A diesel car will be more efficient, so let's say one gallon of diesel - 37 kW - will allow it to travel 45 miles.

There's no comparison.

An electric engine that's 90% efficient will travel farther per unit of energy than any internal-combustion powered car, because an IC engine is extremely inefficient at converting stored energy to forward propulsion.
At best, they're sub-50% efficient and that's being extremely optimistic.

But still, comparing a brontosaurus to a triceratops.
Both will be extinct nearly similtainiously. .

 

[HolyMoly]

Not true at all.

There's actually more to it, but an electric car has it all over a diesel or gasoline car.
It's just harder to store electricity.

Using your example above:
An electric car uses 10kW of stored electricity to travel 35 miles.
A gasoline car uses a gallon of fuel - which contains 33kW of energy - to travel 35 miles.
A diesel car will be more efficient, so let's say one gallon of diesel - 37 kW - will allow it to travel 45 miles.

There's no comparison.

An electric engine that's 90% efficient will travel farther per unit of energy than any internal-combustion powered car, because an IC engine is extremely inefficient at converting stored energy to forward propulsion.
At best, they're sub-50% efficient and that's being extremely optimistic.

What you are missing from the electricity energy component, is how much fossil fuel in kW was used to create 10kW of electricity? You think internal combustion will soon be extinct, while it is actually fully integrated into making electricity and is what currently makes electricity so cheap. Now throw in CA forcing energy companies to use alternate generation (wind/solar) that are significantly more costly. Solar is the future, wind is not. Wind is just a good place to get a bunch of money while looking like you are doing something friendly to the planet by placing tons of huge eye sores in windy areas that are less efficient that a Ford 3/4 4x4 with a carbed 460 gasser and 410 gears.

Internal combustion is still the most efficient method of making things go when you look cradle to grave....otherwise known as the big picture.

 

[Crazyhippy]

Power plants are MUCH more efficient than any automotive gasoline engine... cleaner too.

 

[HolyMoly]

Power plants are MUCH more efficient than any automotive gasoline engine... cleaner too.

Well it they better be! But it doesn't negate that 10kW of electricity didn't appear from thin air. It was produced by burning fossil fuels! And solar and wind are very inefficient (wind will always be inefficient, except for the efficiency in getting money from the government ). Solar will be the prime source one day.

So how much potential kW in fossil fuels does it take to produce 10kW of electricity?

 

[pronstar]

What you are missing from the electricity energy component, is how much fossil fuel in kW was used to create 10kW of electricity? You think internal combustion will soon be extinct, while it is actually fully integrated into making electricity and is what currently makes electricity so cheap. Now throw in CA forcing energy companies to use alternate generation (wind/solar) that are significantly more costly. Solar is the future, wind is not. Wind is just a good place to get a bunch of money while looking like you are doing something friendly to the planet by placing tons of huge eye sores in windy areas that are less efficient that a Ford 3/4 4x4 with a carbed 460 gasser and 410 gears.

Internal combustion is still the most efficient method of making things go when you look cradle to grave....otherwise known as the big picture.

It's a moot argument, because as consumers, we don't buy fossil fuel to make electricity.

We buy energy in the form of gasoline, electricity, diesel, natural gas, heating oil, etc...
Each unit of energy we buy has a specific cost.
And the way we use this energy has varying levels of efficiency.

And "well to wheel" efficiency has been studied extensively for the auto industry, and it tuns out that, IC engines are not the most efficient method, not by a long shot. Your view of the "big picture" is wrong

Just google "well to wheel" and see for yourself.
Countless studies, conducted over more than a decade, have come to this conclusion.

 

[brgrcru]

after all these posts. It still is gay.

 

[HolyMoly]

It's a moot argument, because as consumers, we don't buy fossil fuel to make electricity.

You have to choose one side of the argument or the other. You can't (unless you are taking lessons from Froggy) try to make a scientific argument, then say...well, I don't care...I just look at what it cost me. But in the big picture I'm still wrong, you just can't explain it so fuck me, you win? LOL

 

[BigQ]

For a fully depleted battery:
At 12 amps/120 volts from a wall outlet, it takes about 12 hours to charge.
At 20 amps/240 volts from a wall outlet, it takes around 4 hours.
I'm on an Home/EV rate structure with SCE, so electricity between midnight and 6AM is super cheap, just $0.09 per kW, so I set my car up to charge between those hours.
And I recharge for free at work :thumbup:

Here's the rate plan I'm on - Home & Electric Vehicle Plan (TOU-D-TEV).
Summer rates listed, winter are a bit less:

On-Peak
10 AM to 6 PM weekdays
Tier 1: 28 cents / kWh
Tier 2: 47 cents / kWh

Off-Peak
6 a.m. to 10 a.m.
6 p.m. to midnight
Tier 1: 12 cents / kWh
Tier 2: 31 cents / kWh

Super Off-Peak
Midnight to 6 AM every day
Tier 1: 9 cents / kWh
Tier 2: 9 cents / kWh

Tiers are based on how much electricity you use.
The more you use, the more it costs.


The Volt's battery is 16.5kW, and the state of charge that it actually uses is around 10kW+/-

In traffic, I average between 40 and 46 miles per charge.
My commute one-way is about 33 miles

This is what we are going to be doing also. The difference being we have solar on the roof. We pay about .17 for the solar, but we feed a lot back to SCE (until it gets warmer) and then pay .09 at night to charge the car.

Also, if you electric\plug-in owners do not know CA has a rebate program to steal money from all the petrol users . Full electric is $2500 and most plug-ins are $1500.

Using that for my payments makes the car about $135 a month for the payment.

 

[pronstar]

I don't think it looks THAT bad...though I swore if never own another black car again.

 

[Enen]

I would buy a diesel hybrid. It would be awesome if someone swapped a little Diesel engine into the Volt, or a Prius, or even a bigger Camry hybrid.

 

[Cole Trickle]

I don't think it looks THAT bad...though I swore if never own another black car again.

View attachment 323112

Too funny I got black as well. It lives outside and looks like shit since I haven't washed it in two weeks.

I was planning on the dk grey color but the black looks better on the volt so I threw Jason Holley a curve ball at the last minute...lol

 

[DaveC]

my next car is gonna get worse gas mileage than my current car.:thumbsup

thats gonna be tough since I get shitty mileage now (12.5)

but the bad gas mileage is not what costs $. its the tires that kills me

my Moho gets 7. but doesn't count since I don't commute it

 

[JDKRXW]

And "well to wheel" efficiency has been studied extensively for the auto industry, and it tuns out that, IC engines are not the most efficient method, not by a long shot.

You are 100% correct.
Any newer nat. gas fired 'combined cycle' power plant's thermal efficiency is ~60% (compared to 30% for an automotive gasoline engine).
This, combined with the fact that nat. gas is 1/4 the cost of gasoline (Gasoline Gallon Equivalent basis) and there is no comparison in the energy cost to run a 'plug in' electric car.

 

[Boat 405]

I would buy a diesel hybrid. It would be awesome if someone swapped a little Diesel engine into the Volt, or a Prius, or even a bigger Camry hybrid.

Mercedes has one coming. They are claiming to get better than 50 mpg in a full size e class sedan. Makes a sissy little prius car look like dinosaurs in technology. Prius curb weight 3000 lbs. E class sedan curb weight 4000 lbs. Not to mention the obvious. Bigger, faster, more hp, better MPG and much more SAFE.

 

[Boat 405]

It's a moot argument, because as consumers, we don't buy fossil fuel to make electricity.

We buy energy in the form of gasoline, electricity, diesel, natural gas, heating oil, etc...
Each unit of energy we buy has a specific cost.
And the way we use this energy has varying levels of efficiency.

And "well to wheel" efficiency has been studied extensively for the auto industry, and it tuns out that, IC engines are not the most efficient method, not by a long shot. Your view of the "big picture" is wrong

Just google "well to wheel" and see for yourself.
Countless studies, conducted over more than a decade, have come to this conclusion.

You clearly don't understand the saying, "there is no such thing as a free lunch" do you?

Guess what your shiny plastic panels are made from in your car. FOSSIL FUELS
Guess what your tires are made from. FOSSIL FUELS
Guess where your electricity in your house comes from. FOSSIL FUELS

YOU ARE PAYING FOR FOSSIL FUELS IN EVERY CAR YOU BUY. Just because you see it in the end product doesn't mean you are using them.

 

[rush1]

That volt is the only real hybrid on the market

 

[Boschma]

So how far can you go on a full charge?

 

[Enen]

Mercedes has one coming. They are claiming to get better than 50 mpg in a full size e class sedan. Makes a sissy little prius car look like dinosaurs in technology. Prius curb weight 3000 lbs. E class sedan curb weight 4000 lbs. Not to mention the obvious. Bigger, faster, more hp, better MPG and much more SAFE.

I found this. 65mpg. If it comes to the States, I may have my next commuter car!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/m...cedes-e300-bluetec-hybrid-the-richard-1530005

 

[OCMerrill]

Well, I own a penis and there is no way it will fit in an electric car. I guess I could tuck it and talk with a lisp.

I do love reading all the cost justification you potential Sierra Club members are spewing.


Mileage controlled lease...I can buy a fair amount of diesel on a paid for car for $400 mo plus an extra $ hundy on my electric bill.
There is little talk in this thread about insurance and Lic fees. I guess that free in an electric car.




I am happy for those that want them and think they are great.:thumbsup When they are nuclear powered then I'm interested.

 

[Boat 405]

Well, I own a penis and there is no way it will fit in an electric car. I guess I could tuck it and talk with a lisp.

I do love reading all the cost justification you potential Sierra Club members are spewing.


Mileage controlled lease...I can buy a fair amount of diesel on a paid for car for $400 mo plus an extra $ hundy on my electric bill.
There is little talk in this thread about insurance and Lic fees. I guess that free in an electric car.




I am happy for those that want them and think they are great.:thumbsup When they are nuclear powered then I'm interested.

Quoted for lots of winning in this post!

 

[78Southwind]

[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7-YMt-XAcsQ[/video]

Same test mule. Bigger wins.

I drive an 8,000 lbs Ford Excursion this is what worries me about heavy vehicles. Just Saying...

 

[Gelcoater]

Well, I own a penis and there is no way it will fit in an electric car. I guess I could tuck it and talk with a lisp.

I do love reading all the cost justification you potential Sierra Club members are spewing.


Mileage controlled lease...I can buy a fair amount of diesel on a paid for car for $400 mo plus an extra $ hundy on my electric bill.
There is little talk in this thread about insurance and Lic fees. I guess that free in an electric car.




I am happy for those that want them and think they are great.:thumbsup When they are nuclear powered then I'm interested.

Nice&#128077;

I am curious what one of these new gay cars cost to register and insure also.

 

[JJK94]

Leased one end of February- 1200 down 261/month including tax. 36000 miles. Down included license and first payment. Getting 1500 back from state, payment will decrease to 245/mo. LA DWP going to give me up to 750.00 to install 240v charger. Also going to install dedicated meter for charging and LA DWP will give me 250.00 for that, which will bring the off peak rate to .025/kwh. 40 miles will cost about .30 Going to install myself so 250 should cover it.
36000 miles would cost 270.00 to charge assuming we don't get it free somewhere. I figure that the total monthly is around 360.00 including tax,insurance,power, and license. Assumption is power won't go up but we are on solar
Chevy Cruze 190/month . 36000 miles, Possibly average 35mpg and 4.00 gal fuel costs over the next 3 years. 385.00/month tax,insurance, fuel, and license.

If we get the HOV sticker it makes it all worth while but they are running out.