Most awesome "boat" ever

[jetboatperformance]

Of all the boats and ships this beast has always been my favorite , apparently Its just undergone a 10 million dollar resto , I worked with a guy as a kid that claimed to have spent time on it and had great stories about firing a projectile the weight of a Volkswagon

USS New Jersey (BB-62) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[monkeyswrench]

Something like 2200lbs 26 miles? Throwing a VW to Catalina

 

[Sharky]

There is a great you tube channel done by the curator all about the USS NJ. Including the dry docking & repainting.

He takes you EVERYWHERE on and in the ship and goes into great details.

 

[Sharky]

A sample-

 

[stephenkatsea]

I had the amazing pleasure of seeing the New Jersey and the Missouri at sea. First was the NJ doing live fire sea trials before deploying to Vietnam. Watched the sunrise over San Clementine Island with the NJ, running at speed, between us and the island. Later that day we were miles away when she began shelling the island with her BIG guns. It literally rattled your bones.

Next was the Missouri as she entered San Diego Bay. Her decks lined with Navy and Marines in dress whites. Seeing her coming straight at us is a sight I’ll never forget. The beam of those ships were like no other.

 

[jetboatperformance]

I had the amazing pleasure of seeing the New Jersey and the Missouri at sea. First was the NJ doing live fire sea trials before deploying to Vietnam. Watched the sunrise over San Clementine Island with the NJ, running at speed, between us and the island. Later that day we were miles away when she began shelling the island with her BIG guns. It literally rattled your bones.

Next was the Missouri as she entered San Diego Bay. Her decks lined with Navy and Marines in dress whites. Seeing her coming straight at us is a sight I’ll never forget. The beam of those ships were like no other.

I seem to recall in the early days they sent the loads with 100lb sacks of black powder eeeek !

 

[boatpi]

I was a board in New Jersey when I was very young. My dad was a gunner on the Lexington.
I believe this ship has 16 inch guns!

 

[jetboatperformance]

good vid

 

[stephenkatsea]

When I toured one of our Trident Subs, the Capt told me the accuracy of their weapons depended, to a larage extent, on the ability to know exactly where the weapon had been launched. The 3 dimensional station keeping abilities of their boat were particularly important when they did ‘ripple/multiple’ launches. I believe these battleships did not have station keeping abilities. Perhaps others may know better. At best, the New Jersey may have had GPS when deployed to Vietnam?

 

[Desert Whaler]

My Brother in Law Retied Naval Comander . . . told me once how much that (or a similar ship) ship moved sideways from the recoil when they fired all the guns from one side . . . don't remember the actual number, but it was a lot more than I expected.

 

[spectra3279]

They move roughly 18 feet for every round fired. So a single round. 18ft 2 rounds will move it about 30ft. It's also been said if all guns fired at the same time to one side, it would roll over.

 

[73mandella]

My son volunteers on the USS Iowa in Long Beach whenever he can. He really enjoys the time he spends on the ship.

 

[Sharpy]

This guy is great!

 

[4Waters]

 

[4Waters]

They move roughly 18 feet for every round fired. So a single round. 18ft 2 rounds will move it about 30ft. It's also been said if all guns fired at the same time to one side, it would roll over.

That's why they are so wide so they can't roll over when firing all guns from the same side

 

[Cray Paper]

One of my younger brothers joined the navy in 1989 and served about 12 years. He was on the Nimitz for most of that time and was in the Gulf and Kosovo wars. Nimitz had marines onboard and some of them talked about a US battleship laying down precision destruction from 20+ miles away to clear the path for them. Not rockets, big ass artillery rounds surgically placed that obliviated the tanks and opposing forces. I couldn't find it, but back in the early 2000's there was a video from the mid 90's of young navy personnel on deck of a battle ship when it fired several of it's main guns, they were dumbfounded at the ferocity of those canons going off.

 

[rrrr]

When I toured one of our Trident Subs, the Capt told me the accuracy of their weapons depended, to a larage extent, on the ability to know exactly where the weapon had been launched. The 3 dimensional station keeping abilities of their boat were particularly important when they did ‘ripple/multiple’ launches. I believe these battleships did not have station keeping abilities. Perhaps others may know better. At best, the New Jersey may have had GPS when deployed to Vietnam?

No, GPS wasn't deployed until after the Iowa class battleships were decommissioned. They relied on a mechanical analog fire control computer that used cams and gears to arrive at a firing solution. It was made by the Ford Instrument Company (not the automobile manufacturer). The fire control computer was invented by a British admiral around 1905, with successive generations becoming more and more accurate.

It performed several separate computing solutions: distance to target, target speed, target course, own ship's speed, own ship's course, and closing rate between target and own ship. It then sent commands to the turrets that automatically aimed range by barrel elevation and azimuth by slewing the turret.

The computer also had a gyroscopic function called the stable element, which detected the rolling motion of own ship, and compensated for it by continually changing the gun elevation. That kept the guns at the same range elevation with respect to the horizon that the fire control computer had determined.

The system could accurately place fire on targets over twenty miles away. While the outdated communications equipment being used by the enlisted talkers indicate the photo below may have been taken during WWII, the fire control computer remained essentially the same until the early 90s, when the Iowa class was removed from service.

If you want to learn about these mechanical integrating computers, this document produced by MIT explains how they work.

https://web.mit.edu/STS.035/www/PDFs/Newell.pdf

The mechanical analog computers of Hannibal Ford and William Newell

I've done a little reading about battleship history. These are some of the books I've collected over the years.

 

[4Waters]

They move roughly 18 feet for every round fired. So a single round. 18ft 2 rounds will move it about 30ft. It's also been said if all guns fired at the same time to one side, it would roll over.

Here are a couple pics of the New Jersey.

You can see in the water how much the ship move sideways

 

[rrrr]

Here are a couple pics of the New Jersey.
View attachment 1438810

You can see in the water how much the ship move sideways
View attachment 1438811

They didn't move when the guns were fired, and firing all nine 16" guns on one side won't cause the ship to roll over. They displaced over 60,000 tons when combat loaded, the shells weighed about 2,700 lbs each.

Do Battleships move sideways when they fire? - NavWeaps

www.navweaps.com

 

[4Waters]

They didn't move when the guns were fired, and firing all nine 16" guns on one side won't cause the ship to roll over. They weighed over 60,000 tons when combat loaded, the shells weighed about 2,700 lbs each.

Do Battleships move sideways when they fire? - NavWeaps

www.navweaps.com

I know they did roll over, post 15 but in the pic it appears the ship moved sideways and I would be hard pressed to believe that they didn't move

 

[rrrr]

I know they did roll over, post 15 but in the pic it appears the ship moved sideways and I would be hard pressed to believe that they didn't move

View attachment 1438815

Try clicking on the link I posted. You're seeing the results of rapidly expanding gases that just fired shells at 2,500 feet per second inducing movement of the air around the ship, which disturbs the water. I can promise those ships didn't move.

 

[4Waters]

Try clicking on the link I posted.

Ok but not believing it

 

[rrrr]

Ok but not believing it

You're looking for the moon landing thread.

 

[4Waters]

You're looking for the moon landing thread.

That energy has to go somewhere, I understand that they have 48" of recoil but that energy still has to go somewhere and that somewhere is into the hull that floats. I don't see the water being broiled up at the tip of the bow. Until they fire up NJ and take her out with modern GPS positioning and fire all guns off one side to prove that she doesn't move my opinion is she moves.

 

[rrrr]

The ship's 60,000 ton displacement at combat loading equals 120,000,000 lbs. The nine 16" armor piercing shells fired at once weigh 24,300 lbs. The math showing the effect of the salvo on the ship is contained in the link I posted. While it may be hard to understand, it's accurate.

In addition to the recoil absorption, the guns don't fire at the same time in an all gun salvo. There's a .06 second firing delay between the three guns in a turret, and a .40 second firing delay between each of the three turrets.

 

[4Waters]

The ship's 60,000 ton weight at combat loading equals 120,000,000 lbs. The nine 16" armor piercing shells fired at once weigh 24,300 lbs. The math showing the effect of the salvo on the ship is contained in the link I posted. While it may be hard to understand, it's accurate.

In addition to the recoil absorption, the guns don't fire at the same time in an all gun salvo. There's a .06 second firing delay between the three guns in a turret, and a .40 second firing delay between each of the three turrets.

I move when I shoot an AR, that little 55g round transfers that energy into the recoil spring, which in turn transfers into my shoulder causing me to move since I am not a solidly mounted immovable object. The energy has to go somewhere and the ship is not solidly mounted immovable object.

 

[rrrr]

MmmmmK.

 

[spectra3279]

I know they did roll over, post 15 but in the pic it appears the ship moved sideways and I would be hard pressed to believe that they didn't move

View attachment 1438815

Same here and especially after talking to people who were on them

MmmmmK.

 

[rrrr]

Same here and especially after talking to people who were on them

Many battleship crew members believe it, but that doesn't mean its true. It doesn't happen. Think about this...

Not only does the ship displace 60,000 tons, there's about 37' of battleship under the water. The Iowas are about 880' in length. For it to move 30', it would have to push 924,000 cubic feet of water. A cubic foot of water weighs 62.4 lbs, so 924,000 CF of water totals 57,657,600 lbs. The guns are an ant on the ass of an elephant compared to that.

The New Jersey fired a couple thousand times during WWII. Those nine guns firing 32,400 lbs of shells aren't going to move the ship. The recoil system absorbs the energy produced by the cordite. If it didn't, if the ship moved 30' instantaneously, it would wreck the guns. It would also destroy the turbines, fracture the steam piping operating at 600 PSI and 800°, and tear apart the boilers. Every crew member on the ship would fall on his ass.

But the proof for those that doubt what I'm saying, let's watch this video taken during firing. The ship is underway. It doesn't move sideways. Besides that, if it did, then the firing solution would have to be recalculated. It's common knowledge a good gun crew could fire two rounds a minute, it was done repeatedly during WWII. How would that fire be accurate at distances up to twenty miles if the ship moved every time a single gun fired? Answer: it wouldn't.

Don't take my word for it. Do a freekin' Google search.

 

[spectra3279]

How much force do you think it takes to toss a 2200# object upto 26 miles?

 

[Hardly Satisfied]

Watched these videos posted very interesting

 

[Sawtooth]

So if this ship in question and others like it supposedly move sideways 15 or 18 or however many feet when the guns are fired how come there is no tsunami type wave on the opposite side of the ship in any pictures. That’s a lot of mass that has to displace/push the water out of the way on the opposite side of the ship the guns are on. You know, the ole for every action there is a opposite and greater reaction deal .

 

[4Waters]

So if this ship in question and others like it supposedly move sideways 15 or 18 or however many feet when the guns are fired how come there is no tsunami type wave on the opposite side of the ship in any pictures. That’s a lot of mass that has to displace/push the water out of the way on the opposite side of the ship the guns are on. You know, the ole for every action there is a opposite and greater reaction deal .

I'm not saying they move that far but I do believe they move

 

[Sharky]

Watched these videos posted very interesting

There is a cool one where the curator crawls inside one of the boilers & super heaters. Also another where he ventures all the way down inside the keel where the rudder gear is located.

The places, nooks & crannies he crawls into on the NJ are incredible.

 

[rrrr]

@4Waters

From a technical article:

Contrary to popular belief, the ships did not move sideways noticeably when a broadside was fired; this was an illusion. With the enormous mass of the vessel and the damping effect of the water around the hull, the pressure wave generated by the gunfire was felt as just a slight change in lateral velocity. The sea surface on the side of the ship to which the guns are trained is roiled by the guns' muzzle blast, which creates the illusion of motion in still photos.

Toldjaso.

Do Battleships move sideways when they fire? - NavWeaps

www.navweaps.com

 

[rrrr]

There is a cool one where the curator crawls inside one of the boilers & super heaters. Also another where he ventures all the way down inside the keel where the rudder gear is located.

The places, nooks & crannies he crawls into on the NJ are incredible.

I'd like the videos a lot more if he wasn't such a doofus. Hands in his pockets, eyes darting around, it's annoying as hell.

 

[monkeyswrench]

@4Waters

From a technical article:

Contrary to popular belief, the ships did not move sideways noticeably when a broadside was fired; this was an illusion. With the enormous mass of the vessel and the damping effect of the water around the hull, the pressure wave generated by the gunfire was felt as just a slight change in lateral velocity. The sea surface on the side of the ship to which the guns are trained is roiled by the guns' muzzle blast, which creates the illusion of motion in still photos.

Toldjaso.

The muzzle blast or shockwave created by those guns must be massive. I've watched videos of a muzzle brake on a Barrett, the redirected blast cleared the gear off the adjacent shooting bench. That's only ½ inch, 650 grain or so. The amount of air in a 16" barrel being pushed out at speed by a 2200lb projectile must be damaging to anything near

 

[HST4ME]

That would settle the squirt guns in the channel deal.

 

[was thatguy]

How much force do you think it takes to toss a 2200# object upto 26 miles?

Oh shit…now you’ve done it…

 

[was thatguy]

That energy has to go somewhere, I understand that they have 48" of recoil but that energy still has to go somewhere and that somewhere is into the hull that floats. I don't see the water being broiled up at the tip of the bow. Until they fire up NJ and take her out with modern GPS positioning and fire all guns off one side to prove that she doesn't move my opinion is she moves.

Newton figured it out a while ago.
His 3rd law of motion.

 

[yz450mm]

I'd like the videos a lot more if he wasn't such a doofus. Hands in his pockets, eyes darting around, it's annoying as hell.

He has a medical condition that causes his abnormal "traits". It was mentioned by somebody in the comments of one of his early videos, but I can't recall the name of it.

Not everybody is perfect.

 

[Rajobigguy]

How much the ship moves in a nine gun salvo is an interesting discussion but my bet is that it’s actual movement is probably less than a couple of inches.
I tried to figure out a way to scale this down to something that’s more in the realm of things we’re most used too and what I came up with is nine guys standing on my deck boat and all fire a 357 simultaneously.
Anyone think my boat is going to skid sideways a measurable amount ??

 

[Gramps]

two questions.............is the ship on a treadmill and what props have they tried

 

[bonesfab]

If the shipped moved any substantial amount every time one fired, there would be a lot of injured sailors. I would almost have to agree the ship would rock but not shuffle any great amount.

 

[rrrr]

He has a medical condition that causes his abnormal "traits". It was mentioned by somebody in the comments of one of his early videos, but I can't recall the name of it.

Not everybody is perfect.

And I didn't know that.

 

[rrrr]

How much force do you think it takes to toss a 2200# object upto 26 miles?

The muzzle blast or shockwave created by those guns must be massive. I've watched videos of a muzzle brake on a Barrett, the redirected blast cleared the gear off the adjacent shooting bench. That's only ½ inch, 650 grain or so. The amount of air in a 16" barrel being pushed out at speed by a 2200lb projectile must be damaging to anything near

That energy has to go somewhere, I understand that they have 48" of recoil but that energy still has to go somewhere and that somewhere is into the hull that floats. I don't see the water being broiled up at the tip of the bow. Until they fire up NJ and take her out with modern GPS positioning and fire all guns off one side to prove that she doesn't move my opinion is she moves.

How much the ship moves in a nine gun salvo is an interesting discussion but my bet is that it’s actual movement is probably less than a couple of inches.
I tried to figure out a way to scale this down to something that’s more in the realm of things we’re most used too and what I came up with is nine guys standing on my deck boat and all fire a 357 simultaneously.
Anyone think my boat is going to skid sideways a measurable amount ??

All of these questions are answered in the link I posted above. If anyone that looks understands the math, let me know and I will bow down to a superior being.

 

[was thatguy]

A friend of mine has a custom built breach load double barrel .500 Nitro Express rifle.

The gun weighs 10 pounds.
The projectile is a 570 grain bullet.
It leaves the 22” barrel at a velocity of 2250 FPS powered by 104 grains of IMR4831.
There is no recoil absorbing device.

Pop quiz: can anyone calculate the recoil seen at the butt stock when fired?
(I know the answer, it’s been measured)

The point of this is that the projectile weight is almost microscopic compared to the recoil force. Using simply the weight of the projectile fired by the ships guns as a force loading metric is grossly inaccurate.

 

[Rajobigguy]

All of these questions are answered in the link I posted above. If anyone that looks understands the math, let me know and I will bow down to a superior being.

Whatcha picking on me for, I’m on your side. Any movement is going to be statistically insignificant.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Might be a vin? But, still a good explanation.

 

[BoatCop]

Childhood friend, surf buddy, and fellow Chief served on USS New Jersey as a Signalman. I recently found this pic on the internet a while back showing the Coast Guard Cutter Cleat (65' Harbor Tug) enforcing the security zone around New Jersey as she was being transferred from her usual Philly berth to Camden, NJ. I served as Chief Engineer on Cleat, early '80s.