Montana boat registration question (for a new boat)?

[stonehenge]

If a person is building a new boat, and it is going to be registered new in Montana. Does anyone here know from personal knowledge if it can be done on line? Or does the boat have to be registered in person when new? Their web site is confusing and jumps to the treasury and fish and game and etc.,

thanks for any help

 

[stonehenge]

I ask because in NV it has to be in person when new or change of title

Oregon can be done on line.

Montana?

 

[Done-it-again]

Our RVs didn’t have to go to MT and was all handled by the Montana LLC firm. Pretty sure boats are handled the same way.

Is the LLC already set up?

 

[boatpi]

Answer, and I have used this firm for 20+ years; https://www.49dollarmontanaregister...g6Sz5V4Ilsw2-VvlHepoGtMnlKdOfjAhoC2G8QAvD_BwE

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Not the same as Nevada, when we registered our last boat in Nevada, it was a PITA. We've not registered a boat in Montana yet, but everything else we registered has been easy.

Vehicle registration has not been with MDOT. Only a Drivers license through MDOT, vehicle registration has been with the County Treasurer. A boat should be with the county treasurer as well. I've not tried to register anything without a title, except my son did try and register his truck without a physical title and was denied. Nevada had to provide him with a new title before he could obtain Montana registration.

If your boat does not have a title I "ASSUME" they will want to confirm a VIN number before they issue one. Lot's of people build wood boats up here so it must not be that hard to get a title.

 

[sml]

Last year I had my brand new boat and trailer registered in Montana. I sent my manufacturers certificate or origin for both to my registered agent and they handled it. It’s permanent registration but if you don’t already know every few years you need to get the use permit decal (free). That can be done online.

 

[Outdrive1]

I had a company set up my LLC and register my boat. They don’t require an inspection.

 

[BoatCop]

Remember that boats are required by Federal and ALL State laws, to be registered in the "State of Principle Operation".

"State of Principle Operation" means where the boat is primarily operated, meaning where it is being used on the water the most.

As an example, let's look at the Montana Registration. You could be a Montana resident, live full time in Montana, and store your boat in Montana, when it's not in use. You take your boat out 5 times a year. Once at your local Montana lake for 3 days. Once for 5 days at Lake of the Ozarks, MO. And 3 times at Lake Havasu, for a total of 21 days.

You would be required to register your boat in either Arizona or California.

I know Montana, with their loose incorporation/LLC laws, is an attractive way to keep from paying taxes & fees on expensive toys, but boats are a different story. Although it would take a bit of surveillance and documentation to "prove" that Montana ISN'T the State of Principle Operation, it's still illegal. This is especially true for those that may have rented/owned slips. If you drop your boat into your slip @ the Riviera in March and pull it in September, guess what? Lake Havasu is the primary use lake. There is also the requirement (in Arizona, at least) that if a non-AZ registered boat is in use on Arizona's waters for 90 days, they are required to be registered in AZ. (ARS 5-322.E)

For all the cheapskates wanting to avoid paying the State for the privilege of using their waterways and facilities, the only legal way to do it is to have the boat Federally Documented.

 

[sml]

I can appreciate the info as usual Boatcop, always look forward to your input!

In the state i live in currently, the reciprocity with out of state registrations is 60 days on the water. I think NY is 90 days. None of this seems to be enforced anyways, pretty much every marina you go to in my area is equal amount of registrations for in state as there is out of state. (PA,NY, OH)

 

[Sportin' Wood]

FWIW, I don't see the Montana LLC loophole continuing in it's current form indefinitely. One good thing is that the Montana state legislation meets for only a brief period every other year, but at some point enough noise will be made about the revenue opportunity registration fees can provide from out of state sources. There is a growing disdain for the out of state advantages that are being taken by the wealthy.

I see this as a two front assault. The local municipalities will begin looking more closely at Montana registrations on exotic cars, boats and RVs and Montana will dig a little deeper in the pockets of those that use our favorable tax code as a method to bolster budget constraints. Locals are realizing that the untapped income opportunity of people who can't vote on policy is appealing universally in this state.

I don't see them shutting off the Montana LLC, I just see them ramping up revenue streams for those that wish to use the shelter. Example, if you don't have a primary residence inside Montana, the lifetime registration goes away and the fees go up. The rich would still be ahead and the state would gain a lot of extra budget.

I can't imagine California likes the Montana plates on all those personal property tax opportunities. If your DL is California, I could see a traffic stop raising some questions about taxes.

 

[nordictom]

Just my 2 cents..............
I looked into a Montana LLC for a motorhome. Yes, the registration had an advantage, but the insurance was going to offset the benefit. We have State Farm, and every SF Agent I talked to told me if I didn't have a permanent residence in Montana, I couldn't get insurance through them. Just another item to look at when going the Montana LLC route.

NT

 

[Done-it-again]

A

Just my 2 cents..............
I looked into a Montana LLC for a motorhome. Yes, the registration had an advantage, but the insurance was going to offset the benefit. We have State Farm, and ever SF Agent I talked to told me if I didn't have a permanent residence in Montana, I couldn't get insurance through them. Just another item to look at when going the Montana LLC route.

NT

Not the case. You need to have insurance for Montana specifically. Our local State Farm agent said the same, because they couldn’t do it.

Mine is with National General by Alstates.

 

[sml]

A

Not the case. You need to have insurance for Montana specifically. Our local State Farm agent said the same, because they couldn’t do it.

Mine is with National General by Alstates.

Maybe talk to another agent? My llc is listed as an additional insured on my policies. I’ve never had a Montana policy…and i have multiple vehicles, trailers, boats, atvs, sxs and snowmobiles registered. I’ve been doing it this way for a long time. I’m sure someone will say it’s wrong…..

I do have some non resident registration on snowmobiles because NY doesn’t recognize any other states registrations.

 

[sml]

FWIW, I don't see the Montana LLC loophole continuing in it's current form indefinitely. One good thing is that the Montana state legislation meets for only a brief period every other year, but at some point enough noise will be made about the revenue opportunity registration fees can provide from out of state sources. There is a growing disdain for the out of state advantages that are being taken by the wealthy.

I see this as a two front assault. The local municipalities will begin looking more closely at Montana registrations on exotic cars, boats and RVs and Montana will dig a little deeper in the pockets of those that use our favorable tax code as a method to bolster budget constraints. Locals are realizing that the untapped income opportunity of people who can't vote on policy is appealing universally in this state.

I don't see them shutting off the Montana LLC, I just see them ramping up revenue streams for those that wish to use the shelter. Example, if you don't have a primary residence inside Montana, the lifetime registration goes away and the fees go up. The rich would still be ahead and the state would gain a lot of extra budget.

I can't imagine California likes the Montana plates on all those personal property tax opportunities. If your DL is California, I could see a traffic stop raising some questions about taxes.

In some states, the street legal sxs people that are hell bent on street riding where they don’t permit this are causing a lot of unwanted attention also.

 

[Done-it-again]

Maybe talk to another agent? My llc is listed as an additional insured on my policies. I’ve never had a Montana policy…and i have multiple vehicles, trailers, boats, atvs, sxs and snowmobiles registered. I’ve been doing it this way for a long time. I’m sure someone will say it’s wrong…..

I do have some non resident registration on snowmobiles because NY doesn’t recognize any other states registrations.

I go through Overland insurance in Az. Since I have a loan through the LLC it might be different, I’m not sure.

Insurance isn’t that expensive but slightly more than if was it was added to my current policy.

 

[stonehenge]

wow, wow... WOW!!

So much goodness in all of these amazing responses.

Perhaps I should have been more detailed in my inquire.

We currently have a second home in Montana, we plan on buying a boat and registering it when new, with a title and vin from the manf. in Montana. Was just trying to find out if this can be done without the boat being physically there?

Although the LLC is tempting for a million reasons, and might go this route for a plethora of other reasons, still would love to know if a new boat, with a title and vin., new from the manf. can be registered in Montana without the boat having to be there physically at time of initial registration? (AND NOT HAVING TO USE AN LLC TO DO IT)

And for all the leo's concerned over usage fees, this is not my intention, nor am I worried about this either. Just was wondering if anyone knows from first hand knowledge if a new boat, with a title and vin., from the manf. can be registered in Montana without the boat having to be there physically?

Like I stated earlier, in Oregon, you apply on line, pay, get your paperwork, done! The boat does not need to be present to complete this transaction. Nor do you need an LLC.

Montana?

thank you for any direct knowledge on this question, specifically, new boat, with title, and vin, from manf., can it be registered in Montana without the need for it to be there physically?

 

[WildHorses24]

A

Not the case. You need to have insurance for Montana specifically. Our local State Farm agent said the same, because they couldn’t do it.

Mine is with National General by Alstates.

State Farm can do it. You're most likely speaking with unexperienced staff. Insurance is similar to what @BoatCop said, the boat/RV should be insured in the primary garaging state (not were it's registered). There's nothing illegal about insuring in AZ and registering in MT. MT is not a reporting state so they don't require Ins Companies to electronically file proof of liability for registration like CA and AZ. I have many RVs and boats insured in AZ/CA that are registered in MT. If it was the other way around you would have a notice of suspended registration within 60 days in AZ/CA for failing to file insurance through the MVD/DMV.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

wow, wow... WOW!!

So much goodness in all of these amazing responses.

Perhaps I should have been more detailed in my inquire.

We currently have a second home in Montana, we plan on buying a boat and registering it when new, with a title and vin from the manf. in Montana. Was just trying to find out if this can be done without the boat being physically there?

Although the LLC is tempting for a million reasons, and might go this route for a plethora of other reasons, still would love to know if a new boat, with a title and vin., new from the manf. can be registered in Montana without the boat having to be there physically at time of initial registration? (AND NOT HAVING TO USE AN LLC TO DO IT)

And for all the leo's concerned over usage fees, this is not my intention, nor am I worried about this either. Just was wondering if anyone knows from first hand knowledge if a new boat, with a title and vin., from the manf. can be registered in Montana without the boat having to be there physically?

Like I stated earlier, in Oregon, you apply on line, pay, get your paperwork, done! The boat does not need to be present to complete this transaction. Nor do you need an LLC.

Montana?

thank you for any direct knowledge on this question, specifically, new boat, with title, and vin, from manf., can it be registered in Montana without the need for it to be there physically?

I'm pretty sure you are good, but I need to go down to the county court house to check on a custom Lic plate Angie ordered me for the UTV, so if I can remember, I'll just ask. It won't likely be this week as I've got a crazy schedule tues-thursday. If Friday clears up I'll go ask.

New boat, manufactured with a VIN, first time registered. Any other details I need? I will be asking in Lake County. I assume all the same. PM me if you want me to ask anything you don't want to share online.