LS3 swap to Daytona fuel pump delima HELP !

[jetboatperformance]

This basket case came with a mishmosh of extra parts , To rig we intend to simply use an Imco 6 port , one high pressure pump and the question do we need a lift pump ? (LS 3 has a multiport injection on a Holly Intake

 

[Blackmagic94]

If the efi pump is being fed by the tank by gravity and is below the fuel tank level. Then one pump should be fine.


If it doesn’t then I would run a fuel sump tank with a carb pump as a lift pump to a regulator. Then mount an in tank pump in the sump. This is what I did on my jet.

Pics show sump and efi regulator. Front side of engine has carb pump regulator and a black Carter. The sump has twin walbros inside.

 

[Blackmagic94]

Also


Carter lift pump is set on regular to 3 psi to maximize volume of fuel to sump

Efi regulator is at 62 psi for Holley sniper efi.

Another advantage is I added another 2.5 gallons of fuel to what was small tanks of 13 gallons per side. So gives me some longer legs. Uses simple, cheap, common, quiet and reliable oem fuel pumps as well. And can slosh fuel away from pumps in hard seas

 

[bonesfab]

The one I was helping on put a returnless pump module in each tank. Check valves on each line to A Y and just switch between tanks. Holley makes the pump modules.

 

[jetboatperformance]

The one I was helping on put a returnless pump module in each tank. Check valves on each line to A Y and just switch between tanks. Holley makes the pump modules.

I think that one side of the fuel rail on this is the input on the other side maybe a return line my idea was to use a single pump high-pressure to feed the fuel rails and then return it via the Imco 6 way valve and probably not use a lift pump because of the design of the tanks

 

[lf2]

Im in the middle of my build but i am plumbing it like this pickup out of each tank to a tee into a 100 micron pre filter, to pump, to 5 micron filter water separator, Y out of that to each fuel rail, regulator on backside with return to a tee and back to each tank.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

This will solve your issues and is all in one box. What my ProCharged 525 is fed by.

3.5L Surge Tank

3.5L modular surge tank, universal. Includes 2 350iL In-line Fuel Pump

deatschwerks.com

 

[Blackmagic94]

This will solve your issues and is all in one box. What my ProCharged 525 is fed by.

3.5L Surge Tank

3.5L modular surge tank, universal. Includes 2 350iL In-line Fuel Pump

deatschwerks.com

That’s what I run but the bigger 5.5l one but a lift pump works best for it.

 

[DaveH]

This basket case came with a mishmosh of extra parts , To rig we intend to simply use an Imco 6 port , one high pressure pump and the question do we need a lift pump ? (LS 3 has a multiport injection on a Holly Intake

any efi system in a boat benefits from a proper lift pump and accumulator.

simply sticking a pump near the tank to feed you main pump is not enough. the problem gets MUCH worse as the tank level drops or the boat gets driven aggressively.

 

[jetboatperformance]

any efi system in a boat benefits from a proper lift pump and accumulator.

simply sticking a pump near the tank to feed you main pump is not enough. the problem gets MUCH worse as the tank level drops or the boat gets driven aggressively.

So a "lift pump" to feed the high pressure then ?

 

[DaveH]

So a "lift pump" to feed the high pressure then ?

its more then just a lift pump. its a system to deaeriate the fuel.

think of it this way....when you have half a tank of fuel, and this is especially true with marine fuel tanks that have little to no baffling, the acceleration, deceleration, turning and so forth sloshes the fuel like a washing machine.

this highly aeriated fuel is introduced to the fuel system with or without a lift pump.

the correct solution is a reservoir of fuel, fed via a lift pump, where the design of the reservoir separates the air out and returns it to the main tank. clean low pressure fuel is then pushed to the main pump. Kinsler EFI makes a VST tank for this exact purpose and work exceedingly well.

some pump manufactures are making combo lift/high pressure pumps "all in one". what will work best for you situation depends on many factors.

 

[jetboatperformance]

Im in the middle of my build but i am plumbing it like this pickup out of each tank to a tee into a 100 micron pre filter, to pump, to 5 micron filter water separator, Y out of that to each fuel rail, regulator on backside with return to a tee and back to each tank.
View attachment 1275959

In amongst the plethera of "stuff" supplied US are basically TWO systems similar your diagram and I suspect 'they may have been misguided ............... Theres a vast Crevase' between the anonymous owner/purchaser of all this for this project . The folks/entity that sublet this "project" to US, they were are clueless and were in over theyre collective heads

 

[02HoWaRd26]

its more then just a lift pump. its a system to deaeriate the fuel.

think of it this way....when you have half a tank of fuel, and this is especially true with marine fuel tanks that have little to no baffling, the acceleration, deceleration, turning and so forth sloshes the fuel like a washing machine.

this highly aeriated fuel is introduced to the fuel system with or without a lift pump.

the correct solution is a reservoir of fuel, fed via a lift pump, where the design of the reservoir separates the air out and returns it to the main tank. clean low pressure fuel is then pushed to the main pump. Kinsler EFI makes a VST tank for this exact purpose and work exceedingly well.

some pump manufactures are making combo lift/high pressure pumps "all in one". what will work best for you situation depends on many factors.

That’s where a surge tank like posted above works well. My return from the rail goes back to the sump, as does the regulated overflow of fuel, and the mechanical pump, all three keep the tank full, and then the overflow there flows back to the tank it’s switched to. So the two 350lph pumps are always submerged in fuel and reall cannot have a starvation issue unless you run the fuel tanks dry.

 

[aftershock]

My LS Jet boat has a Carter Lift Pump (there's a small cleanable filter/screen inside it), then a fuel/water separator, then high pressure pump, then an OEM LS style filter/regulator with a return.

 

[Bigbore500r]

its more then just a lift pump. its a system to deaeriate the fuel.

think of it this way....when you have half a tank of fuel, and this is especially true with marine fuel tanks that have little to no baffling, the acceleration, deceleration, turning and so forth sloshes the fuel like a washing machine.

this highly aeriated fuel is introduced to the fuel system with or without a lift pump.

the correct solution is a reservoir of fuel, fed via a lift pump, where the design of the reservoir separates the air out and returns it to the main tank. clean low pressure fuel is then pushed to the main pump. Kinsler EFI makes a VST tank for this exact purpose and work exceedingly well.

some pump manufactures are making combo lift/high pressure pumps "all in one". what will work best for you situation depends on many factors.

This is a great point - Boat tanks are not "baffled" and the fuel sloshing around can introduce air into the system, which will make the EFI very angry.....lol

Has anyone tried to rig up a boat fuel tank with an in-tank Walbro or similar setup (similar to a car) and utilize holley hydra-mat on the pickup, set at the floor of the tank?
That would get rid of the lift pump, and probably give a much quieter fuel pump and longer pump life.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

This is a great point - Boat tanks are not "baffled" and the fuel sloshing around can introduce air into the system, which will make the EFI very angry.....lol

Has anyone tried to rig up a boat fuel tank with an in-tank Walbro or similar setup (similar to a car) and utilize holley hydra-mat on the pickup, set at the floor of the tank?
That would get rid of the lift pump, and probably give a much quieter fuel pump and longer pump life.

Personally I think I’d still want the surge tank and external lift pump for ease of maintenance.

I realize this is the opposite of what I just said, but It would be bitchen to have the surge tank in the boat fuel tank like it is in some high performance car tanks. If you had easy access to it, that would be super clean.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Personally I think I’d still want the surge take and external lift pump for ease of maintenance.

I realize this is the opposite of what I just said, but It would be bitchen to have the surge take in the boat fuel tank like it is in some high performance car tanks. If you had easy access to it, that would be super clean.

That would be sweet. The boat fuel tanks often end up in the gunnels though, so access would be a bitch I think.

 

[DaveH]

This is a great point - Boat tanks are not "baffled" and the fuel sloshing around can introduce air into the system, which will make the EFI very angry.....lol

Has anyone tried to rig up a boat fuel tank with an in-tank Walbro or similar setup (similar to a car) and utilize holley hydra-mat on the pickup, set at the floor of the tank?
That would get rid of the lift pump, and probably give a much quieter fuel pump and longer pump life.

doing this right now on a Schiada, an aermotove in tank pump with its own baffle/sock for each tank feeding a VST reservoir that pushes to a main pump.

 

[jetboatperformance]

anyones thoughts on using this to reduce plumbing ?

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

I always thought IMCO built fuel tanks with baffles and trap doors to keep the fuel from sloshing around and the trap keeps fuel running away from the pickup?

Are we talking OEM tanks that cut corners?

 

[DaveH]

I always thought IMCO built fuel tanks with baffles and trap doors to keep the fuel from sloshing around and the trap keeps fuel running away from the pickup?

Are we talking OEM tanks that cut corners?

you thought WRONG.

 

[Shlbyntro]

here you go. nice cheap and easy solution is a knock off Volvo Penta fuel supply module. fuel filter, lift pump, vst, fuel cooler, and hp pump all built into one.

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

you thought WRONG.

Well then I’d be sure to request it in the build if they aren’t included. Not hard to solve if you’re getting new tanks.

 

[DaveH]

Well then I’d be sure to request it in the build if they aren’t included. Not hard to solve if you’re getting new tanks.

seems easy enough......but if you cut open an OEM tank from any high performance late model car, you will see very sophisticated engineering, the molding process of the tank, multiple level sensors and so forth. it aint easy.

 

[jetboatperformance]

here you go. nice cheap and easy solution is a knock off Volvo Penta fuel supply module. fuel filter, lift pump, vst, fuel cooler, and hp pump all built into one. View attachment 1276710

A link for this ?

 

[Shlbyntro]

oh. just search "Volvo penta fuel pump" on Amazon or ebay.

a cheap knock off can be had for anywhere from 150-500 or a genuine Volvo unit (made by carter) will run about 1700 from any Volvo penta dealer.

it does require a fuel rail with a return style fuel pressure regulator. I've seen them run engines up to about 500hp. maybe they could do more but I've never tried

 

[shan]

anyones thoughts on using this to reduce plumbing ?

I always thought that looked like a huge restriction.

 

[Shlbyntro]

This is a great point - Boat tanks are not "baffled" and the fuel sloshing around can introduce air into the system, which will make the EFI very angry.....lol

Has anyone tried to rig up a boat fuel tank with an in-tank Walbro or similar setup (similar to a car) and utilize holley hydra-mat on the pickup, set at the floor of the tank?
That would get rid of the lift pump, and probably give a much quieter fuel pump and longer pump life.

pretty much all rollbar boats are this way now and have been for about 10 years

 

[Bigbore500r]

pretty much all rollbar boats are this way now and have been for about 10 years

Awesome, so they can crush docks every day without missing a beat!

 

[DaveH]

here you go. nice cheap and easy solution is a knock off Volvo Penta fuel supply module. fuel filter, lift pump, vst, fuel cooler, and hp pump all built into one. View attachment 1276710

china garbage. there is no way i would put knock off parts in anything. not saying this design is bad, if this works for you go OEM.

 

[DaveH]

pretty much all rollbar boats are this way now and have been for about 10 years

this shows how important stable fuel delivery is....even for a low HP motor, yet many still seem to think that forced induction or decent power NA motors can run the poorly designed fuel system they have in the boat.

 

[Shlbyntro]

this shows how important stable fuel delivery is....even for a low HP motor, yet many still seem to think that forced induction or decent power NA motors can run the poorly designed fuel system they have in the boat.

They still fail left and right lol

 

[n2otoofast4u]

Im in the middle of my build but i am plumbing it like this pickup out of each tank to a tee into a 100 micron pre filter, to pump, to 5 micron filter water separator, Y out of that to each fuel rail, regulator on backside with return to a tee and back to each tank.
View attachment 1275959

How far along are you? I have a brand new Aeromotive 12309 100 Micron that I bought when working on my junk that I ended up not using (used a Holley, it fit my mounts better) that Id sell for 1/2 what it cost me. I built and installed the entire system style you have above, but for way more HP and it worked really well. Ironically, I am mid stream on adding a surge tank and came to think to look at Peters deal. Its cool, but won't work for my application.

 

[lf2]

How far along are you? I have a brand new Aeromotive 12309 100 Micron that I bought when working on my junk that I ended up not using (used a Holley, it fit my mounts better) that Id sell for 1/2 what it cost me. I built and installed the entire system style you have above, but for way more HP and it worked really well. Ironically, I am mid stream on adding a surge tank and came to think to look at Peters deal. Its cool, but won't work for my application.

Thanks for the offer but i already have all the fuel system parts. I have the 12307 filter which is a little smaller than the one you have.
I wish i was farther along as in up and running but i have been waiting on the builder to finish up the wire harness and get it tuned on the dyno and a few other things he is doing. So hoping to have a running boat for at least the end of this summer has now become a winter project.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

Thanks for the offer but i already have all the fuel system parts. I have the 12307 filter which is a little smaller than the one you have.
I wish i was farther along as in up and running but i have been waiting on the builder to finish up the wire harness and get it tuned on the dyno and a few other things he is doing. So hoping to have a running boat for at least the end of this summer has now become a winter project.

Let’s see pic! Love me some EFI boating content!

 

[jetboatperformance]

Yes, definitely good information here only if I because I’m losing my Cherry as a carburetor, supercharger guy and learning a lot in a very short period of time I have two projects the Daytona with the Ls in this one and I have to figure out all the details on it as well. I just ordered fuel tanks for it today with returns extra large by the way.

 

[lf2]

Let’s see pic! Love me some EFI boating content!

Dont have to many pics as most of the parts were put on quick and then removed to take the motor to the motor shop.
Being its going into to covered motor boat its not as pretty as some LS’s can be. Its being setup with closed cooling, imco powerflows, running the trailblazer ss intake manifold (supposed to have better performance than the standard truck manifold), the accessory drive kit with the water pump, ps pump and alt is from cp performance/hardin marine. Holley fuel rails, 50lb injectors and a mefi computer to control it. I will probably do a build thread once i get the motor back and am ready to drop it in the boat.