Lost Oil Pressure

[GreenEnergy28]

So, the new to me buggy I picked up a few weeks ago, lost oil pressure the first trip out. Pulled the filter and it looks like the couch at a strip club with all the glitter.
I'm going to pull the engine out this week. Looking to take it to an engine builder and have the whole thing gone through rather than just slapping new bearings in it.
Need the RDP brain trust to recommend a good engine builder in the SoCal area. LS platform. I would prefer to stay away from CBM and Redline only because I'm sure they are weeks, if not months out. Just guessing though.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

What a bummer.

I’ve had good luck with Clay Smith Cams in the past for that kind of thing.

 

[Bigbore500r]

So, the new to me buggy I picked up a few weeks ago, lost oil pressure the first trip out. Pulled the filter and it looks like the couch at a strip club with all the glitter.
I'm going to pull the engine out this week. Looking to take it to an engine builder and have the whole thing gone through rather than just slapping new bearings in it.
Need the RDP brain trust to recommend a good engine builder in the SoCal area. LS platform. I would prefer to stay away from CBM and Redline only because I'm sure they are weeks, if not months out. Just guessing though.

You can try Mullinex Racing Engines in Simi, they have a good rep with the LS crowd. There stuff is on my buddies dyno all the time, lots of happy customers.

QMP chatsworth is usually a good choice as well, not sure how busy they are though!

What LS motor is in it? If the short block is just a stock LS deal, you might be money ahead just nabbing another motor and just moving your intake and accessories over, depending on what it is you have.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You can try Mullinex Racing Engines in Simi, they have a good rep with the LS crowd. There stuff is on my buddies dyno all the time, lots of happy customers.

QMP chatsworth is usually a good choice as well, not sure how busy they are though!

What LS motor is in it? If the short block is just a stock LS deal, you might be money ahead just nabbing another motor and just moving your intake and accessories over, depending on what it is you have.

This is a gude idea if it is stockish.

 

[Bigbore500r]

This is a gude idea if it is stockish.

There's lots of "CBM" and "Redline" motors running around that are stock GM motors with billet belt tensioners,

Unrelated -
I had to break the news to my buddy last weekend that his buggy motor has a 4.8 / 5.3 casting on an aluminum spraypainted block.....
He asked how much power he was losing if it was a 5.3 instead of an LS1. I told him "not much, but theres a 51% chance thats a 4.8"
All he saw when he bought the motor second-hand was shiny valvecovers and a CBM billet belt tensioner

 

[rivermobster]

You can give Mike a call and see how busy he is at the moment...

JMS Racing Engines – We don't crate, we create!

At JMS Racing, we don't crate, we create.

jmsracingengines.com

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

There's lots of "CBM" and "Redline" motors running around that are stock GM motors with billet belt tensioners,

Unrelated -
I had to break the news to my buddy last weekend that his buggy motor has a 4.8 / 5.3 casting on an aluminum spraypainted block.....
He asked how much power he was losing if it was a 5.3 instead of an LS1. I told him "not much, but theres a 51% chance thats a 4.8"
All he saw when he bought the motor second-hand was shiny valvecovers and a CBM billet belt tensioner

People do the same thing with boats and cars when they get enamored.

Was he happy with the power before he new it very well might be a 4.8?

 

[gqchris]

That sucks man. Nothing worse then not even making it one trip on a new purchase. Who did ya buy it from? Id at least let that person know whats up.

 

[77charger]

This guy is good too. He’s done a couple friends buggy engines and they both made great power and solid.

 

[GreenEnergy28]

You can try Mullinex Racing Engines in Simi, they have a good rep with the LS crowd. There stuff is on my buddies dyno all the time, lots of happy customers.

QMP chatsworth is usually a good choice as well, not sure how busy they are though!

What LS motor is in it? If the short block is just a stock LS deal, you might be money ahead just nabbing another motor and just moving your intake and accessories over, depending on what it is you have.

It's a 6.0 iron block, 799 heads with dual valve springs, LS7 lifter, Sealed power .50mm pistons. "stage 3 cam", Claimed 500hp.

 

[GreenEnergy28]

That sucks man. Nothing worse then not even making it one trip on a new purchase. Who did ya buy it from? Id at least let that person know whats up.

Picked it up from a guy up past Bakersfield. I have reached out to him.

 

[gqchris]

Picked it up from a guy up past Bakersfield. I have reached out to him.

I know its buyer beware and sold As-Is. But I would not be cool with it and I know the options are limited, but sometimes people step up and at least meet in the middle.

I know its rare these days

 

[TPayne]

Moruzzi Race Motors 909-828-6180 does a lot of offroad LS stuff and is located in Banning, I have no personal experience but have heard great things. Also maybe call Texas Speed and see what they have in stock if you need it right away.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

It's a 6.0 iron block, 799 heads with dual valve springs, LS7 lifter, Sealed power .50mm pistons. "stage 3 cam", Claimed 500hp.

Power is probably right around there. If it’s not it could be with the right cam and should be easy to fix.

A 6.0 pullout is $1200-$1600, and 243/799 core heads are $400-$600 for cores.. so you’d be into it a couple grand for a “core” before you started. You’ll be most of the way through the rebuild for that.

If you want to keep the price low and will keep the power around 500 HP you can get stock LS2/3 takeout rods and a stock crank for cheap, have the rods honed and add better rod bolts and call it hood.

 

[4Waters]

You can try Mullinex Racing Engines in Simi, they have a good rep with the LS crowd. There stuff is on my buddies dyno all the time, lots of happy customers.

QMP chatsworth is usually a good choice as well, not sure how busy they are though!

What LS motor is in it? If the short block is just a stock LS deal, you might be money ahead just nabbing another motor and just moving your intake and accessories over, depending on what it is you have.

^^^This^^^ with the exception of QMP

Mullinex, A&A Corvette or Jason Pettis at Pettis Performance

Mullinex and A&A are in Ventura Co. Pettis Performance is in Hesperia

 

[DaveH]

why rebuild? too costly.

a bone stock LS3 makes 550 hp with nothing more then a tune.

all that motor needs to be ultra reliable is a better timing chain and high flow oil pump.

 

[Gripside80]

Pretty Sure James moved Mullenix Racing engines to New Braunfels TX a Few years back.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

why rebuild? too costly.

a bone stock LS3 makes 550 hp with nothing more then a tune.

all that motor needs to be ultra reliable is a better timing chain and high flow oil pump.

Thinking about this, I do agree, but I think the LS3 will be more costly than a rebuild. I think that basic rebuild could be done for $3k-$4k.

That said, all the parts in that 6.0 likely still have value to offset the extra cost of the LS3, And taking 100 lbs out of the car going to a aluminum block will further help.

 

[DaveH]

Thinking about this, I do agree, but I think the LS3 will be more costly than a rebuild. I think that basic rebuild could be done for $3k-$4k.

That said, all the parts in that 6.0 likely still have value to offset the extra cost of the LS3, And taking 100 lbs out of the car going to a aluminum block will further help.

its not just the cost, its the time to get it done. dune season would be over.

3-4k sounds very low to me, i could see the labor alone being that much plus any parts.

a NEW LS3 long block can be had for a little over 6k.

 

[4Waters]

Pretty Sure James moved Mullenix Racing engines to New Braunfels TX a Few years back.

It's been years since I've been over there but wouldn't be surprised

Edit: He did

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

its not just the cost, its the time to get it done. dune season would be over.

3-4k sounds very low to me, i could see the labor alone being that much plus any parts.

a NEW LS3 long block can be had for a little over 6k.

Agree on time. But yea he’d also need a whole new square port intake for that long block.

If it’s a 500 HP 6.0 I wouldn’t waste much money on any fancy parts, aside from supporting mods for the cam, but it entirely depends on how bad it is in there.

 

[DaveH]

Agree on time. But yea he’d also need a whole new square port intake for that long block.

If it’s a 500 HP 6.0 I wouldn’t waste much money on any fancy parts, aside from supporting mods for the cam, but it entirely depends on how bad it is in there.

you can drop a FAST intake manifold on it, cam change and make 600-625hp with the right tune on pump gas.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

you can drop a FAST intake manifold on it, cam change and make 600-625hp with the right tune on pump gas.

Absolutely!

 

[scottchbrite]

Or You could buy this and be done

 

[Mototrig]

L&R engines in Santa Fe Springs did a great job on my big block. Worth a phone call at least.

 

[Bigbore500r]

why rebuild? too costly.

a bone stock LS3 makes 550 hp with nothing more then a tune.

all that motor needs to be ultra reliable is a better timing chain and high flow oil pump.

Problem is a stock LS3 is gonna run $6500+ tax and the motor wont be compatible with his current ECM / Harness setup due to 58X crank pickup, rec port heads wont work with his intake manifold, etc.
They make about 500 FWHP with a stock cam and no accessories, out of the box from GM

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Problem is a stock LS3 is gonna run $6500+ tax and the motor wont be compatible with his current ECM / Harness setup due to 58X crank pickup, rec port heads wont work with his intake manifold, etc.
They make about 500 FWHP with a stock cam and no accessories, out of the box from GM

The venerable Lingenfelter 58x to 24X convertor solves that problem... 80% of the time

 

[Bigbore500r]

It's a 6.0 iron block, 799 heads with dual valve springs, LS7 lifter, Sealed power .50mm pistons. "stage 3 cam", Claimed 500hp.

If you want to get back in the dunes quickly, this seems like your huckle bearer.....

GM Performance facory reman LQ9 6.0.

Will have flat top pistons with floating pins, most likely has the later model rods as well.

Compatible with your 24x / 1x EFI setup, and your intake bolts right on. Swap your oil pan on it, and if your camshaft and spring are good those can be swapped over too very easily. The lifters will be the same as "LS7" - they are all the same part number from GM these days.

Fresh GM power for $5150 with free shipping, you send your core motor back in the provided container.

REMAN 6.0L -364 cid- GM ENGINE - RPO LQ9 2002-2007

Check out the deal on REMAN 6.0L -364 cid- GM ENGINE - RPO LQ9 2002-2007 at GM Performance Motor

www.gmperformancemotor.com

 

[Bigbore500r]

The venerable Lingenfelter 58x to 24X convertor solves that problem... 80% of the time

I thought you wanted to HELP the guy
Ive been thru that debacle with a few builds....never again!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I thought you wanted to HELP the guy
Ive been thru that debacle with a few builds....never again!

They do suck

 

[lbhsbz]

Tear it down, see what’s fucked up, order new (and a gasket kit). While waiting for parts, pressure wash the block and heads and oil passages, blow dry, spray some CRC 3-36 on everything so it don’t rust…. put it back together.

Not so hard.

Remember…UAW guys put these engines together and they don’t give a shit. It’s not hard. You don’t need a “race shop”

Modern engines with under a couple hundred thousand miles rarely need any machine work….

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

If you want to get back in the dunes quickly, this seems like your hucklebearer.....

GM Performance facory reman LQ9 6.0.

Will have flat top pistons with floating pins, most likely has the later model rods as well.

Compatible with your 24x / 1x EFI setup, and your intake bolts right on. Swap your oil pan on it, and if your camshaft and spring are good those can be swapped over too very easily.

Fresh GM power for $5200 with free shipping, you send your core motor back in the provided container.

REMAN 6.0L -364 cid- GM ENGINE - RPO LQ9 2002-2007

Check out the deal on REMAN 6.0L -364 cid- GM ENGINE - RPO LQ9 2002-2007 at GM Performance Motor

www.gmperformancemotor.com

Time wise, yes, but then you are down 100-150 HP. That isn't the RDP way .

His heads are better, and he'd be doing a cam and valve spring swap just to get him back to where he is now. After doing that and giving away his core, that could turn into the most expensive option.

 

[76sanger]

GOOGLE (LS crate motor for sale) buy short block and put your intake and pulleys and whatever on it. You get a warranty with it. Tons of shops to buy from.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Time wise, yes, but then you are down 100-150 HP. That isn't the RDP way .

His heads are better, and he'd be doing a cam and valve spring swap just to get him back to where he is now. After doing that and giving away his core, that could turn into the most expensive option.

Like I was saying - "IF YOU WANT TO GET BACK IN THE DUNES QUICKLY" .
It wasn't posted as the most cost effective option....if he doesn't mind waiting an undetermined amount of time, and finding a rebuilder to get onboard, rebuilding his motor is obviously cheaper assumming the block is good.

He's only gonna get a 4%-5% gain per point of compression..... we're talking 20-25 hp, not 100-150
.317 heads VS 799's isn't worth much on a flow bench, any gains seen are from the compression bump going from 10.2:1 vs 11:1 with the 799's.. That really puts the motor into a range it probably shouldn't be in on pump gas, in a high load / high stress sitation like climbing sand dunes over and over!

Swapping the same cam over shoud get him close to where he's at now

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Like I was saying - "IF YOU WANT TO GET BACK IN THE DUNES QUICKLY" .... there's alway the option to tear it down, order parts, find a builder....etc , if he doesn't mind waiting an undetermined amount of time, and finding a rebuilder to get onboard.

His heads aren't really better.......317 VS 799's isn't worth much at all, other than a compression bump into a range he probably shouldn't be in on pump gas, in a high load / high stress sitation. 10.2:1 vs 11:1 with the 799's. Swapping the same cam over shoud get him damn close to where he's at now, where are you getting 100-150hp from?

A LQ4 makes 350 HP.. He's claiming his makes 500. That is the 100-150. The heads are probably worth 10-15HP, and the cam is the balance.

I'd run the 799s over the 317s all day. High 10s to 11:1 compression will be fine on a 6.0 NA deal on 91 pump.... lets face it, it was running with those heads.

As you said its great for time if you want to pay a premium for a factory GM crate motor only to rip it apart to put a cam in it. I like the idea, I'd just go with an aftermarket reman or even short block if you are gonna throw the warranty away and swap the cam.

 

[DaveH]

A LQ4 makes 350 HP.. He's claiming his makes 500. That is the 100-150. The heads are probably worth 10-15HP, and the cam is the balance.

I'd run the 799s over the 317s all day. High 10s to 11:1 compression will be fine on a 6.0 NA deal on 91 pump.... lets face it, it was running with those heads.

As you said its great for time if you want to pay a premium for a factory GM crate motor only to rip it apart to put a cam in it. I like the idea, I'd just go with an aftermarket reman or even short block if you are gonna throw the warranty away and swap the cam.

you dont have to change the cam. the 6100 guys are getting 525-550 all day long on the stock cam.

 

[Bigbore500r]

A LQ4 makes 350 HP.. He's claiming his makes 500. That is the 100-150. The heads are probably worth 10-15HP, and the cam is the balance.

I'd run the 799s over the 317s all day. High 10s to 11:1 compression will be fine on a 6.0 NA deal on 91 pump.... lets face it, it was running with those heads.

As you said its great for time if you want to pay a premium for a factory GM crate motor only to rip it apart to put a cam in it. I like the idea, I'd just go with an aftermarket reman or even short block if you are gonna throw the warranty away and swap the cam.

You saw the part where I said "Swap your cam and springs over" right? I didn't say "run that shit stock!" Lol.

Regarding compression - yes it was running those heads, and apparently it also blew up while running those heads
Only one solid way to settle it, FAFO if its worth 20hp to ya.......probably not when it's something that needs to get you back to camp every time!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You saw the part where I said "Swap your cam and springs over" right? I didn't say "run that shit stock!" Lol.

Regarding compression - yes it was running those heads, and apparently it also blew up while running those heads
Only one solid way to settle it, FAFO if its worth 20hp to ya.......probably not when it's something that needs to get you back to camp every time!

I didn't realize cylinder heads with a few points more compression caused oil starvation

Again.. I like the idea, but why pay GM OE prices for something you are tearing apart?

 

[Bigbore500r]

you dont have to change the cam. the 6100 guys are getting 525-550 all day long on the stock cam.

Stock LS3's usually dyno about 500 FWHP thru headers, and that's without spinning accessories, +/- a few percent. I've never seen an example turn anywhere close to those power numbers.

Cam swaps in the 220 duration range bump HP up into the 550+hp range. Cams closer to the 230 intake duration range usually get you around the 580hp range. From there, the stock intake manifold becomes a restriction, as any cam bigger than 232 @ .050 is movingpeak HP well north of 6800rpm, and the stock intake is well past it's RPM range as it revs beyond 6500. Stock pistons also dont have big enough valve reliefs to go bigger than 232 @ .050 intake duration. To get them to break the 600 fwhp barrier, an aftermaket intake manifold and larger TB are needed so it can rev. To keep going further and get a "max effort" result.....different pistons are needed for intake valve clearance, and at that point you might as well raise the compression to keep the DCR where it's supposed to be with an even larger cam.

Only sharing all of this to illustrate what is required to make those power numbers. As good as it is stock, It's still only a 364" engine on pump gas

 

[Bigbore500r]

I didn't realize cylinder heads with a few points more compression caused oil starvation

Again.. I like the idea, but why pay GM OE prices for something you are tearing apart?

How did you determine oil starvation?

 

[lbhsbz]

How did you determine oil starvation?


View attachment 1318750

no oil pressure and glitter?

Typically we'd have a hole in a piston or a burnt valve with too much C/R for the setup...and that wouldn't cause no oil pressure before it caused something else.

 

[Bigbore500r]

no oil pressure and glitter?

Typically we'd have a hole in a piston or a burnt valve with too much C/R for the setup...and that wouldn't cause no oil pressure before it caused something else.

Im not speculating.....nobody knows what is going on with this motor's glitter issue, via an RD Lounge post without pics

But for shits and giggles - say the glitter is from a rod bearing going away,....well, that is often caused by detonation!

Im simply saying that running it 11:1 on pump gas up large sand dunes WOT, is putting it in the detonation danger zone.
Especially when alot of the older engine management EFI's used on rails don't utilize knock sensors.....

Stock 10:1 motors usually see 2-3 degrees of knock retard with the factory tune
I personally wouldn't do an 11:1 LS motor in a sandrail that sees repetitive duning action, on 91 octane. Same reason why I wouldn't do it in a marine application.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

How did you determine oil starvation?


View attachment 1318750

How did you determine the compression ratio caused glitter in the oil?

 

[DaveH]

Stock LS3's usually dyno about 500 FWHP thru headers, and that's without spinning accessories, +/- a few percent. I've never seen an example turn anywhere close to those power numbers.

Cam swaps in the 220 duration range bump HP up into the 550+hp range. Cams closer to the 230 intake duration range usually get you around the 580hp range. From there, the stock intake manifold becomes a restriction, as any cam bigger than 232 @ .050 is movingpeak HP well north of 6800rpm, and the stock intake is well past it's RPM range as it revs beyond 6500. Stock pistons also dont have big enough valve reliefs to go bigger than 232 @ .050 intake duration. To get them to break the 600 fwhp barrier, an aftermaket intake manifold and larger TB are needed so it can rev. To keep going further and get a "max effort" result.....different pistons are needed for intake valve clearance, and at that point you might as well raise the compression to keep the DCR where it's supposed to be with an even larger cam.

Only sharing all of this to illustrate what is required to make those power numbers. As good as it is stock, It's still only a 364" engine on pump gas

ive seen them make 550.....but that is without an alternator and other accessories. bone stock as all 6100's are....or suposed to be. thats with a very aggressive tune and eco96 fuel.

 

[DaveH]

Im not speculating.....nobody knows what is going on with this motor's glitter issue, via an RD Lounge post without pics

But for shits and giggles - say the glitter is from a rod bearing going away,....well, that is often caused by detonation!

Im simply saying that running it 11:1 on pump gas up large sand dunes WOT, is putting it in the detonation danger zone.
Especially when alot of the older engine management EFI's used on rails don't utilize knock sensors.....

Stock 10:1 motors usually see 2-3 degrees of knock retard with the factory tune
I personally wouldn't do an 11:1 LS motor in a sandrail that sees repetitive duning action, on 91 octane. Same reason why I wouldn't do it in a marine application.

i agree if you want to get the most out of these you need good engine management, especially if you want to run 91

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Im not speculating.....nobody knows what is going on with this motor's glitter issue, via an RD Lounge post without pics

But for shits and giggles - say the glitter is from a rod bearing going away,....well, that is often caused by detonation!

Im simply saying that running it 11:1 on pump gas up large sand dunes WOT, is putting it in the detonation danger zone.
Especially when alot of the older engine management EFI's used on rails don't utilize knock sensors.....

Stock 10:1 motors usually see 2-3 degrees of knock retard with the factory tune
I personally wouldn't do an 11:1 LS motor in a sandrail that sees repetitive duning action, on 91 octane. Same reason why I wouldn't do it in a marine application.

Glitter oil damage on a mild NA LS usually caused from the oil being whipped to a froth.. like it would be when running in the dunes for heavy RPM for extended periods. The common solution is to run an extra quart of oil and run an open breather setup.

I’ve been running 11:1 on 91 in a 347 LS driven in anger for awhile. The dynamic compression is more the cause of detonation than the static ratio.

Crank scraper and a baffled oil pan at minimum should go back in it, along with 1 extra quart of oil above the Full line if that stuff is not already in there.

 

[Bigbore500r]

How did you determine the compression ratio caused glitter in the oil?

I never said it did?

Jesus.......im out

Good luck OP, whatever option ye may take.

 

[Cole Trickle]

anyone need a 6.0 crank ,7 good rods, ls9 cam or valve springs....lol

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

anyone need a 6.0 crank ,7 good rods, ls9 cam or valve springs....lol

7 rods

You've got a full 7 and a half rods!

 

[Cole Trickle]

7 rods

You've got a full 7 and a half rods!

I bet i could get it to a full 7 3/4 rods with a big enough vice.