Lithium batteries, Inverters & Solar for RV's/Boats/etc...

[Cdog]

Wow what a fascinating subject with tons of tech and little details. I've been doing some research on this subject since the one thing my new trailer doesn't have is the solar upgrade. They throw a 1000W inverter and a cheapo battery in there to run the residential fridge. Fine by me because I can build a better system to suit my needs anyway. At least it's "solar ready". Supposedly there's a wire run from a roof access to the basement.

My goal is to find the happy medium of having ample battery power to watch a movie, run fans, and never have any issues with the residential fridge keeping cold. I don't mind running a small Honda 2200 genny to keep things topped off. I do have a new Westinghouse 4500. Would be cool to run 1 ac off the inverter for a bit but not mandatory.

So in the last week I've been reading a lot on the subject. Watched lots of reviews. Bounced back and fourth between 12V and 24V systems and think I have eliminated the 24V system based on not being able to charge it with the truck alt or Onan which puts out 12V std. Please correct me if I'm missing something here.

I'm still confused on the solar panels. With watts ranging from 100-330 per panel and a lot of people choosing the 100w panels there must be a reason? Loss or efficiency?

Example: https://www.solar-electric.com/rec-solar-rec330np-n-peak-series-330-watt-module.html

So far my inverter choice is this. Based on the internal switch to handle the 50A service & 3000W output.

MultiPlus-II 12/3000/120-50 2x120V (UL)

The MultiPlus-II 2 x120V inverter charger is the perfect one-box mobile solution for standard North American 50A 120/240VAC split-phase applications.

battlebornbatteries.com

Batteries are looking like 3 of these.

Lion Safari UT 1300 - Lion Energy

Lion Energy is offering a limited lifetime warranty on the 12V, 105Ah Lithium Iron Phosphate Lion Safari 1300 battery. This will be the last battery you'll ever buy. Order online today!

lionenergy.com

So any input for thoughts on all this? Do any of you have any strong opinions on the subject or experience to lend?

 

[Done-it-again]

I forget what brand Lithium battery's I have, but getting the residential package gave me 2 more... So 4 total, a 1500 watt inverter and 200 watt solar....(2 -100 watt panels)

Keeps everything working..

 

[DILLIGAF]

These guys designed and installed mine. 500AH Battle Borns total, apx 2400w of solar panels. 3000w invertor, etc.

Wasn't cheap and they have had to change out my transfer switch twice but I have been happy with it all. I may add another 500AH of BB batteries. Considering it but maybe 40-60 on doing it. I am not off grid as much as I thought I would be along my travels

NAZ Solar Electric | Off Grid & Grid-Tied Solar Power Systems

Solar power equipment for homes, businesses boats and RVs. Backed by industry experts ready to help get your solar system up and running.

www.solar-electric.com

James Hall Engineer and Sales Manager

 

[mesquito_creek]

Wow what a fascinating subject with tons of tech and little details. I've been doing some research on this subject since the one thing my new trailer doesn't have is the solar upgrade. They throw a 1000W inverter and a cheapo battery in there to run the residential fridge. Fine by me because I can build a better system to suit my needs anyway. At least it's "solar ready". Supposedly there's a wire run from a roof access to the basement.

My goal is to find the happy medium of having ample battery power to watch a movie, run fans, and never have any issues with the residential fridge keeping cold. I don't mind running a small Honda 2200 genny to keep things topped off. I do have a new Westinghouse 4500. Would be cool to run 1 ac off the inverter for a bit but not mandatory.

So in the last week I've been reading a lot on the subject. Watched lots of reviews. Bounced back and fourth between 12V and 24V systems and think I have eliminated the 24V system based on not being able to charge it with the truck alt or Onan which puts out 12V std. Please correct me if I'm missing something here.

I'm still confused on the solar panels. With watts ranging from 100-330 per panel and a lot of people choosing the 100w panels there must be a reason? Loss or efficiency?

Example: https://www.solar-electric.com/rec-solar-rec330np-n-peak-series-330-watt-module.html

So far my inverter choice is this. Based on the internal switch to handle the 50A service & 3000W output.

MultiPlus-II 12/3000/120-50 2x120V (UL)

The MultiPlus-II 2 x120V inverter charger is the perfect one-box mobile solution for standard North American 50A 120/240VAC split-phase applications.

battlebornbatteries.com

Batteries are looking like 3 of these.

Lion Safari UT 1300 - Lion Energy

Lion Energy is offering a limited lifetime warranty on the 12V, 105Ah Lithium Iron Phosphate Lion Safari 1300 battery. This will be the last battery you'll ever buy. Order online today!

lionenergy.com

So any input for thoughts on all this? Do any of you have any strong opinions on the subject or experience to lend?

Start by watching all the Will Prowse youtube videos that you can handle.

"Bounced back and fourth between 12V and 24V systems and think I have eliminated the 24V system based on not being able to charge it with the truck alt or Onan which puts out 12V std. Please correct me if I'm missing something here."

You can buy dc to dc chargers with 24v charging, Victron makes them so I think you got that incorrect. Secondly, you can charge 24v with your Onan by just using a 24v charger connected to a 120V plug/output, so I think you are incorrect there also.

"I'm still confused on the solar panels. With watts ranging from 100-330 per panel and a lot of people choosing the 100w panels there must be a reason? Loss or efficiency?"

They may choose 100w panel based on the limits of the solar charge controller that they have, so to your point, you can use a 330 panel easily as long as your solar panel configuration of "open circuit voltage" doesn't exceed the voltage input range of the solar charge controller. I prefer the highest watt panel I can use, because there is less wiring and less mounting hardware.

The math and the configuration becomes really simple for 12v/24v/48v once you get your head around it. I prefer the higher voltage systems like 24v and even better 48v but you have to understand your goals the the problems you are solving.

My full size RV is ran on a 48V system, but my boat marine based system is 12v. There is no one answer...

 

[Cdog]

These guys designed and installed mine. 500AH Battle Borns total, apx 2400w of solar panels. 3000w invertor, etc.

Wasn't cheap and they have had to change out my transfer switch twice but I have been happy with it all. I may add another 500AH of BB batteries. Considering it but maybe 40-60 on doing it. I am not off grid as much as I thought I would be along my travels

NAZ Solar Electric | Off Grid & Grid-Tied Solar Power Systems

Solar power equipment for homes, businesses boats and RVs. Backed by industry experts ready to help get your solar system up and running.

www.solar-electric.com

James Hall Engineer and Sales Manager

I'm on a SRW truck at max payload so I'm limited on how much battery I can go with. I figure the best bang for my buck is limited batteries bigger capacity and a good inverter.

 

[DILLIGAF]

I'm on a SRW truck at max payload so I'm limited on how much battery I can go with. I figure the best bang for my buck is limited batteries bigger capacity and a good inverter.

James will help design it all....he designed mine before 100% committing. He just needs a pic of the top of the 5th wheel with dimensions. They have done quite a few Grand Design products.

Have him max it out and then scale back where you think you need to

 

[mesquito_creek]

I'm on a SRW truck at max payload so I'm limited on how much battery I can go with. I figure the best bang for my buck is limited batteries bigger capacity and a good inverter.

Get a amp clamp and a watt usage type meter and start by just checking out and measuring how my electricity over time any device you want to plug in needs. Then you can size battery/solar correctly. There are also "energy audit" free spreadsheets out there on the interwebs that can guesstimate your electricity use.

 

[Marios Metalworks]

In on this thread

Sure there’s tons of knowledge here and trying to soak up as much as possible.

Do you think you’ll run a setup on the bote?

 

[GOTTBoat]

Onan produces 12 VDC?

 

[Cdog]

Start by watching all the Will Prowse youtube videos that you can handle.

"Bounced back and fourth between 12V and 24V systems and think I have eliminated the 24V system based on not being able to charge it with the truck alt or Onan which puts out 12V std. Please correct me if I'm missing something here."

You can buy dc to dc chargers with 24v charging, Victron makes them so I think you got that incorrect. Secondly, you can charge 24v with your Onan by just using a 24v charger connected to a 120V plug/output, so I think you are incorrect there also.

"I'm still confused on the solar panels. With watts ranging from 100-330 per panel and a lot of people choosing the 100w panels there must be a reason? Loss or efficiency?"

They may choose 100w panel based on the limits of the solar charge controller that they have, so to your point, you can use a 330 panel easily as long as your solar panel configuration of "open circuit voltage" doesn't exceed the voltage input range of the solar charge controller. I prefer the highest watt panel I can use, because there is less wiring and less mounting hardware.

The math and the configuration becomes really simple for 12v/24v/48v once you get your head around it. I prefer the higher voltage systems like 24v and even better 48v but you have to understand your goals the the problems you are solving.

My full size RV is ran on a 48V system, but my boat marine based system is 12v. There is no one answer...

On the DC too DC charger here. Can the truck charge and the Onan run through the same unit?

Orion-Tr Smart Non-Isolated DC-DC Chargers

The Orion-Tr Smart Non-Isolated DC-DC Chargers are DC to DC adaptive 3-stage chargers with built-in Bluetooth for use in dual battery systems.

battlebornbatteries.com

Example of converter to convert the 24V to 12V. Does this go between the batteries and Inverter or between the inverter and the house power?

Orion High Power DC-DC Non-Isolated Converters

Victron Energy Orion High Power DC-DC Non-Isolated Converters are used to step-up or step down DC Voltages to power 12V devices.

battlebornbatteries.com

I need to understand what solar charge controller is best for what voltage and solar panel. Lots of parameters I need to better understand. At the end of the day I dont really want to run more than 3-4 panels on the roof.

Solar Charge Controllers Archives

Shop all of our solar charge controllers to complete your Battle Born Batteries solar set up.

battlebornbatteries.com

Solar Charge Controllers Archives

Shop all of our solar charge controllers to complete your Battle Born Batteries solar set up.

battlebornbatteries.com

 

[Cdog]

Onan produces 12 VDC?

Oh I fucked that up. The Onan will need a 120V AC to 24V charger. Lot's of moving parts here. I'm new

Further correction. There is a power converter in the RV that converts 120V put out by the Onan and sends charge back to the batteries at 12V. Looks like I would need one that is not only optimized for lithium but also 48V if I were to go that route.

 

[Cdog]

James will help design it all....he designed mine before 100% committing. He just needs a pic of the top of the 5th wheel with dimensions. They have done quite a few Grand Design products.

Have him max it out and then scale back where you think you need to

I'm a DIY guy. When shit goes wrong. And it always does. I need to know how to diagnose and fix it myself. I don't want to get him all fired up thinking I'm dropping coin with him only for him to not get a job out of it. I get enough of that from people doing it to me to not want to do it to others.

 

[mesquito_creek]

"On the DC too DC charger here. Can the truck charge and the Onan run through the same unit?"

Why?.... Generally DC to DC is reserved for using the DC off of the alternator. You have a giant genny with much higher AC out put, just put a separate traditional AC to DC charger on it and use all that power!

 

[Cdog]

"On the DC too DC charger here. Can the truck charge and the Onan run through the same unit?"

Why?.... Generally DC to DC is reserved for using the DC off of the alternator. You have a giant genny with much higher AC out put, just put a separate traditional AC to DC charger on it and use all that power!

My mistake. I just realized the Onan puts out 120V AC. There must be a charger inline somewhere to charge the starter batteries.

 

[mesquito_creek]

"Example of converter to convert the 24V to 12V. Does this go between the batteries and Inverter or between the inverter and the house power?"

Why?... Most of the time you will just take your 24v battery and connect it to an inverter that "inverts" 24v dc to 120v ac and just wire in the circuits/devices on your panel you want to use that 24v battery bank.

 

[mesquito_creek]

Try not to think about how to wire everything to do everything in every possible way. Start by saying "I want to power my fridge and tv." Both take 120v AC, and figure out how much if both are running at the same time. That gives you the size of the inverter needed. Then say how much battery to run that inverter/fridge/Tv for X amount of time (hours/days/weeks).

Fridge and TV use let say 1200 watts simultaneously, you need a 1500 watt inverter. The TV runs 3 hours a day and the fridge uses let say 600 watts a day? for a total of 800 watts. You need a 12v/1200 watt hour battery to run them for one day and a half. Or a 24v 1200 watt hour battery for about a day and a half.

The 12v will be a 12v/100ah battery and the 24v will be a 24v/50ah battery...

Once you get all that figured out, next is to figure out how much solar you need to run all that and recharge the battery....

 

[Cdog]

"Example of converter to convert the 24V to 12V. Does this go between the batteries and Inverter or between the inverter and the house power?"

Why?... Most of the time you will just take your 24v battery and connect it to an inverter that "inverts" 24v dc to 120v ac and just wire in the circuits/devices on your panel you want to use that 24v battery bank.

Right. I goofed that up too. The inverter handles the conversion of DC to AC to the RV.

On 24V I need to convert:

12V to 24V from the truck to utilize the truck charging.
110V AC from RV converted to 24V to charge batteries while the Onan is running.

 

[mesquito_creek]

I'm a DIY guy. When shit goes wrong. And it always does. I need to know how to diagnose and fix it myself. I don't want to get him all fired up thinking I'm dropping coin with him only for him to not get a job out of it. I get enough of that from people doing it to me to not want to do it to others.

I think you are in AZ... if you are really serious/curious, I would loan you a 12v inverter and AGM Battery/lifepo4 a solar charger controller and a 100 watt panel and let you play with it and figure out how to make things work at a micro lab type style over a weekend.

 

[Cdog]

I think you are in AZ... if you are really serious/curious, I would loan you a 12v inverter and AGM Battery/lifepo4 a solar charger controller and a 100 watt panel and let you play with it and figure out how to make things work at a micro lab type style over a weekend.

I'm in Scottsdale yes. I'll hit you up in a bit after I get the trailer home in a week or so.

Thank you!

 

[Cdog]

Here's a diagram.

 

[mesquito_creek]

Right. I goofed that up too. The inverter handles the conversion of DC to AC to the RV.

On 24V I need to convert:

12V to 24V from the truck to utilize the truck charging.
110V AC from RV converted to 24V to charge batteries while the Onan is running.

on the truck you need to convert the alternator out put (14v-16v) DC to whatever input the battery needs in DC... for a 12v lifepo4 that is closer to 13.8v (charger will figure that out) .. a 24v will be higher than 24v depending on the battery chemistry...

 

[Cdog]

on the truck you need to convert the alternator out put (14v-16v) DC to whatever input the battery needs in DC... for a 12v lifepo4 that is closer to 13.8v (charger will figure that out) .. a 24v will be higher than 24v depending on the battery chemistry...

I assume the charger 12V to 24V figures that out?

I'm using 12V & 24V generically since that's the base system voltage. IE: The truck is based on a 12V system. Is that the wrong way to state it?

 

[mesquito_creek]

I assume the charger 12V to 24V figures that out?

I'm using 12V & 24V generically since that's the base system voltage. IE: The truck is based on a 12V system. Is that the wrong way to state it?

you are correct, ... I am just trying to get you thinking NOT generically, LOL.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I'm a DIY guy. When shit goes wrong. And it always does. I need to know how to diagnose and fix it myself. I don't want to get him all fired up thinking I'm dropping coin with him only for him to not get a job out of it. I get enough of that from people doing it to me to not want to do it to others.

NAWS, the guys @DILLIGAF mentioned, are pretty cool. You can buy parts from them, they can design, you install or they could. @wash11 turned me on to them for my back up solar generator project...
It's overkill for an rv, but the parts could be made to fit easily...and I'm feeding 4 fridges and a 220 well pump.

There is a lot of info and forums on their site. The forums are a mix of RVrs and off-grid folks mostly, but the mods are some of the engineers. Solid answers on stuff.

 

[mesquito_creek]

Here's a diagram.

I dont like that graphic already... they made it confusing and you jumped ahead to a hybrid inverter/charger... I have no idea what "PV inverter is", you don't need it unless they are talking about running a whole array in series above your solar charger input range and inverting it to something within range.

The multiplus also jumped ahead and provide a "Public Grid" input which you would substitute with "Generator" or "Shore Power" on an RV hookup...

Victron has way better diagrams than that one.

Mutliplus are awesome, but you want to DIY so I would recommend you figure out each individual component before skipping ahead and reading the answers in the back of the book.

 

[Waterjunky]

keep in mind, you may want to keep a 12v system instead of the 24 or 48. The unit was designed to operate at that voltage. all the lights, water, heat, everything is 12v. There are advantages to the higher voltages, it also means you are messing with everything. Its a whole lot simpler to leave it at that. Lots of stuff is designed for simple 12v. Follow the KISS theory.

I am going though something similar on my RV. Given all the step ups and downs- its better to just stay at 12v. The one exception to this is the power coming down from the panels. I am looking at sending that down at a higher voltage and just making sure my regulator can handle the higher voltage DC. higher voltage means less loss in the line and I can run a smaller wire loom down.

As for running multiple smaller panels; My panel guy and I were talking about this. The frame of the panel on a 100w panel is the same as on a 400w panel. Which do you think holds up better in the long term to wind and vibration going down the road????? Also packaging can be easier working around all the odds and ends on the roof. The down side is its going to cost you more for the same wattage with multiple smaller panels. Hardware costs and penetration's is also a concern with smaller panels.

Nothing is perfect, all a series of trade offs.

 

[Cdog]

keep in mind, you may want to keep a 12v system instead of the 24 or 48. The unit was designed to operate at that voltage. all the lights, water, heat, everything is 12v. There are advantages to the higher voltages, it also means you are messing with everything. Its a whole lot simpler to leave it at that. Lots of stuff is designed for simple 12v. Follow the KISS theory.

I am going though something similar on my RV. Given all the step ups and downs- its better to just stay at 12v. The one exception to this is the power coming down from the panels. I am looking at sending that down at a higher voltage and just making sure my regulator can handle the higher voltage DC. higher voltage means less loss in the line and I can run a smaller wire loom down.

As for running multiple smaller panels; My panel guy and I were talking about this. The frame of the panel on a 100w panel is the same as on a 400w panel. Which do you think holds up better in the long term to wind and vibration going down the road????? Also packaging can be easier working around all the odds and ends on the roof. The down side is its going to cost you more for the same wattage with multiple smaller panels. Hardware costs and penetration's is also a concern with smaller panels.

Nothing is perfect, all a series of trade offs.

I’m in the research phase of this. KISS method is my go to no doubt. Every converter is an opportunity for some part to shit the bed.

4 lions & the 3k inverter is looking like the smartest “good enough” base system.

The roof panels are another compromise.

I’m sure there’s an explanation but why is the 400 & 100 the same frame size? Makes sense to do 3-400’s if you’re not giving up anything with the 400?

 

[mesquito_creek]

I’m in the research phase of this. KISS method is my go to no doubt. Every converter is an opportunity for some part to shit the bed.

4 lions & the 3k inverter is looking like the smartest “good enough” base system.

The roof panels are another compromise.

I’m sure there’s an explanation but why is the 400 & 100 the same frame size? Makes sense to do 3-400’s if you’re not giving up anything with the 400?

I agree with @Waterjunky that 12v is simple. What matters is what you have in the RV? 50 amp RV and I have a residential fridge, washer and dryer, 55 inch TV, run computers etc.. these are not 12v so keeping it 12v isn't as advantageous. If you have 12v/120v fridge etc. you can make the case for sticking with 12v.

The frames on 400 and 100 are the same but the overall size of 400 is larger. So what I think waterjunky was saying is what is more durable a smaller panel with a 1 inch frame or a larger panel with the same frame. a 100 watt is about 47x21 where a 400 watt is 76x41 or something close.

Btw, that is why I stuck with 12v on my Sundancer cruiser, everything runs on 12v, fridges etc... and I have very little solar panels, just a lot of lifepo4 batterys and a 5K genset with a straight AC to DC charger. I go like 3 days on battery then run the genny and charge the whole battery bank in about 5-6 hours or however much I need it....

 

[2Driver]

You may find a few tidbits here.

Power Systems: 12v, Solar, Gen.

Discussion of auxiliary power systems as they relate to expedition travel.

expeditionportal.com

 

[DILLIGAF]

NAWS, the guys @DILLIGAF mentioned, are pretty cool. You can buy parts from them, they can design, you install or they could. @wash11 turned me on to them for my back up solar generator project...
It's overkill for an rv, but the parts could be made to fit easily...and I'm feeding 4 fridges and a 220 well pump.

There is a lot of info and forums on their site. The forums are a mix of RVrs and off-grid folks mostly, but the mods are some of the engineers. Solid answers on stuff.

Yep.....washh11 sent me there as well.

 

[Waterjunky]

I agree with @Waterjunky that 12v is simple. What matters is what you have in the RV? 50 amp RV and I have a residential fridge, washer and dryer, 55 inch TV, run computers etc.. these are not 12v so keeping it 12v isn't as advantageous. If you have 12v/120v fridge etc. you can make the case for sticking with 12v.

The frames on 400 and 100 are the same but the overall size of 400 is larger. So what I think waterjunky was saying is what is more durable a smaller panel with a 1 inch frame or a larger panel with the same frame. a 100 watt is about 47x21 where a 400 watt is 76x41 or something close.

Btw, that is why I stuck with 12v on my Sundancer cruiser, everything runs on 12v, fridges etc... and I have very little solar panels, just a lot of lifepo4 batterys and a 5K genset with a straight AC to DC charger. I go like 3 days on battery then run the genny and charge the whole battery bank in about 5-6 hours or however much I need it....

Yes, the actual aluminum frame around the panel is the same extrusion on anything (within brand and model) over ~100 watts. This means a 100w panel will take lots more abuse than a 400w.
I am keeping the ac and dc systems separate in my above description. I was simply referring to the common idea of having some stuff run 12v, some stuff run 24 or 48v. Keep everything past the solar panel inverter the same voltage. DC ups and downs will just make a mess. Your coach is already using 12v for most things, why fight this?

 

[stingray11]

I'm a fan of the ionic lithium battery I have them in my boat and my RV and love then. You cannot beat the Bluetooth app that comes with the battery tells you everything you need to know about the battery amps draw amps charged and

all kinds of other info just by looking at your phone.

 

[Go-Fly]

When fishing season comes we dry camp. Put in a Renogy 400w kit with 4 Interstate batteries, group 24 RV. Use a Amis 3000w inverter. Never have had a problem with either one. Replace the batteries ever 2 years. We have all the power we need when the sun shines. It's all about power management. On off days we use a Honda 2k. I watch people chase watts in the hope they will get 10 more. If I want 10 more watts, I go up and clean the panels. Lol

 

[bilz]

Take the offer and try the 100 watt panel. It will give you a feel for how fast that 100watt panel will bring the battery up. Play with charge and discharge. That's a great offer to learn with.
I use a 100watt panel and 2 interstate 6v. I was amazed how fast the batteries come up in the morning. Mine is a low budget system, Grape Solar, but it works for me.

 

[Cdog]

Take the offer and try the 100 watt panel. It will give you a feel for how fast that 100watt panel will bring the battery up. Play with charge and discharge. That's a great offer to learn with.
I use a 100watt panel and 2 interstate 6v. I was amazed how fast the batteries come up in the morning. Mine is a low budget system, Grape Solar, but it works for me.

I had a 100 w system on my Genesis. It worked so well I never had to mess with it. Haha!

 

[DILLIGAF]

I have never cleaned my panels....whats the best way to do this? What cleaner, etc?

 

[Cdog]

I have never cleaned my panels....whats the best way to do this? What cleaner, etc?

I would hit mine with a mist from the pressure washer every time I was cleaning it/every trip.

 

[Dana757]

Here is the mini system in my off road trailer. 30A dc / dc with mppt Renogy and a little Noco to charge from 110VAC. 100W panel on a drawer slide that stows under the tent when moving. Seems to work really well for my needs. Normally powers a fridge, fans, TV and charge as many devices as PCT hikers can plug into it.

 

[Cdog]

I’m reading a lot of shit talking on Facebook about different lithium battery companies /manufacturers not holding up to the claims they make.

Does anybody have any comments on that?

 

[Cdog]

Here is the mini system in my off road trailer. 30A dc / dc with mppt Renogy and a little Noco to charge from 110VAC. 100W panel on a drawer slide that stows under the tent when moving. Seems to work really well for my needs. Normally powers a fridge, fans, TV and charge as many devices as PCT hikers can plug into it.

View attachment 1110135 View attachment 1110136 View attachment 1110137

Great rigging! I see you’re a true professional.

 

[bilz]

Nice set up. What battery are you using?

 

[mesquito_creek]

I’m reading a lot of shit talking on Facebook about different lithium battery companies /manufacturers not holding up to the claims they make.

Does anybody have any comments on that?

Will Prowse has youtube tests of just about every LifePo4 battery made... BUT IMO, they all use the same cells from china, there is literally maybe less than a 1/2 dozen in use across all the brands. So what you are buying is customer service and the internal Battery Management System (BMS). Ironically most the the BMS are also made by a few of the same companies in China.

I would say you have a couple top tier brands like BattleBorn, SOK, SimpliFi and probably a few I am missing... Then after that I venture to say its all the same stuff re packaged and re branded. If you want a known manufacture with the longest history of being in business (which is short for all of them), I would go for the best value.

Personally I am the wrong guy after "just buy the known stuff" because I have gone over the the dark side building my own batteries from raw cells and components and if I buy rack mount batteries I just want to be able to open the box without cutting into it to diagnosis and correct problems on my own.

 

[v6toy4x]

I will start with, this is a raBbit hole, be prepared if you want to DIY!!

PANELS&CONTROLLER (rabbit holes 1-4)

WATTS=VOLTS X AMPS
WATTS being the consistent measure of TOTAL power
AMP load being the determining factor in wire size

The higher the voltage the smaller the wire can be, your "prewire" conductor qty and size is going to be limiting if you want to run multiple arrrays OR large nominal 12 volt single array systems.

Solar cell voltage is approx 1/2 volt per cell so the larger the panel the more cells and thus a higher base voltage along with the higher watt output.
Normal PWM solar controllers (typical in RV systems) don't operate at all or efficiently on panels higher than 16-18 volts, tons of wasted power.

The typical RV/boat panel (12 volt nominal system) will typically be 100 watts +/- and have 36 cells with a voltage rating around 16-18 volts, 1/2 volt(+/-) per cell

The larger 300+ panels can have 60, 72 or more cells and therefore create higher base voltages which can then be wired in series to increase voltage and decrease wire size. These panels are typically residential system where the higher voltage is needed/preferred. (rabbit hole-1)

PWM vs. MPPT controllers
To utilize the higher voltage panels for a 12 volt nominal system you need an MPPT style controller which has several inherent advantages over PWM type controllers in an RV application (rabbit hole-2)

Parallel vs. series wiring(rabbit hole-3)
Wiring in parallel (pos to pos) maintians consistent voltage
Wiring in series (pos to neg) doubles the voltage

Effects of shading on parallel systems vs. series system along with isolating diodes (rabbit hole-4)

Example of 2 different 1200 watt systems

EX-1
12-100 watt/36 cell/18 volt "RV" panels wired parallel in one string with a PWM controller, typical install of most all factory RV systems.
1200watts divided by 18volts = 67 amps, you will need a pair of #4 cables from the panels to the controller if you can get a PWM controller that can handle 67 amps
Shade on one panel will effect the entire array, granted the panels will have some diodes but that is limited

EX-2
4-300 watt/72 cell/36 volt panels wired into 2 strings of 2 panels in series, each string is 600 watts, @ 72 volts with an MPPT controller
600watts divided by 72 volts = 8amps per string, you could run (4) conductors, 2 per string, of #14 wire. I would not run anything less than a #10 for any solar.
Shade on one string will have no effect on the other.

BATTERIES, (rabbit hole-5 the biggest one of all)
If you can afford it Lithium is the ONLY way to go from weight to actual use able capacity, recharge rate, long service life etc.
You can buy factory 12 volt batteries or you can build them from individual cells (3.2 volts ea) wired 4 in series for 12.8 volts. Using cells like CALB, you will need a battery management system for over heat and over charge but you can get creative on size, location and qty for a much cheaper price.

I currently have a magnum MPPT controller with a SOC shunt, magnum 2500 watt pure sine inverter/charger, generator AGS, (4) panasonic 250 watt panels in 2 strings wired in series to a 360AH lithum bank of (8) 180AH 3.2 volt CALB cells. I am adding anothe (4) cells to get to 540AHs total. Then I pull the trigger on a compressor based refrigerator.

 

[mesquito_creek]

I will start with, this is a raBbit hole, be prepared if you want to DIY!!

PANELS&CONTROLLER (rabbit holes 1-4)

WATTS=VOLTS X AMPS
WATTS being the consistent measure of TOTAL power
AMP load being the determining factor in wire size

The higher the voltage the smaller the wire can be, your "prewire" conductor qty and size is going to be limiting if you want to run multiple arrrays OR large nominal 12 volt single array systems.

Solar cell voltage is approx 1/2 volt per cell so the larger the panel the more cells and thus a higher base voltage along with the higher watt output.
Normal PWM solar controllers (typical in RV systems) don't operate at all or efficiently on panels higher than 16-18 volts, tons of wasted power.

The typical RV/boat panel (12 volt nominal system) will typically be 100 watts +/- and have 36 cells with a voltage rating around 16-18 volts, 1/2 volt(+/-) per cell

The larger 300+ panels can have 60, 72 or more cells and therefore create higher base voltages which can then be wired in series to increase voltage and decrease wire size. These panels are typically residential system where the higher voltage is needed/preferred. (rabbit hole-1)

PWM vs. MPPT controllers
To utilize the higher voltage panels for a 12 volt nominal system you need an MPPT style controller which has several inherent advantages over PWM type controllers in an RV application (rabbit hole-2)

Parallel vs. series wiring(rabbit hole-3)
Wiring in parallel (pos to pos) maintians consistent voltage
Wiring in series (pos to neg) doubles the voltage

Effects of shading on parallel systems vs. series system along with isolating diodes (rabbit hole-4)

Example of 2 different 1200 watt systems

EX-1
12-100 watt/36 cell/18 volt "RV" panels wired parallel in one string with a PWM controller, typical install of most all factory RV systems.
1200watts divided by 18volts = 67 amps, you will need a pair of #4 cables from the panels to the controller if you can get a PWM controller that can handle 67 amps
Shade on one panel will effect the entire array, granted the panels will have some diodes but that is limited

EX-2
4-300 watt/72 cell/36 volt panels wired into 2 strings of 2 panels in series, each string is 600 watts, @ 72 volts with an MPPT controller
600watts divided by 72 volts = 8amps per string, you could run (4) conductors, 2 per string, of #14 wire. I would not run anything less than a #10 for any solar.
Shade on one string will have no effect on the other.

BATTERIES, (rabbit hole-5 the biggest one of all)
If you can afford it Lithium is the ONLY way to go from weight to actual use able capacity, recharge rate, long service life etc.
You can buy factory 12 volt batteries or you can build them from individual cells (3.2 volts ea) wired 4 in series for 12.8 volts. Using cells like CALB, you will need a battery management system for over heat and over charge but you can get creative on size, location and qty for a much cheaper price.

I currently have a magnum MPPT controller with a SOC shunt, magnum 2500 watt pure sine inverter/charger, generator AGS, (4) panasonic 250 watt panels in 2 strings wired in series to a 360AH lithum bank of (8) 180AH 3.2 volt CALB cells. I am adding anothe (4) cells to get to 540AHs total. Then I pull the trigger on a compressor based refrigerator.

But after the fact, making electricity from the sun... priceless

 

[Shady]

I will chime in with my $.02.

Recently put together and installed a solar/inverter/LiFePo4 system on our trailer, a Gradn Design Imagine 2800BH. Here are the basics of what I installed.

400watt Renogy solar with the 30amp PWM controller. This was on sale on ebay for $460

Go Power 3000watt inverter, which hs a built in auto transfer switch and charger, bought used, never installed off ebay for $950.

Zooms Power Lithium 200AH battery, saw Will Prowse review and it seemed like a decent battery for the $610.

Renogy Battery Monitor for $55.

Two battery disconnects, T-Class 400 amp fuse, 30 amp solar circuit breaker, 4/0 welding wire, lugs and other misc items about $600.

I ordered everything in early March and got it all by Mid March, started the install work betwen kids baseball games and birthday partys and such the weekend of March 19th. I would say I have less than 40 hours total time working on the install. I am a DIY'er for sure, it is not a perfect install, but it works pretty well. We took a five night trip last week and the system worked great when we camped where we had sun. Was able to run the heater all night, and still have enough power in teh morning to make coffee.



Here are the four 100 watt panels installed on teh roof of the trailer.

Here is the inverter controller and battery monitor installed above the factory trailer control center.

Here are the majority of the components installed under the master bed.(Missing the solar controller in this photo)

Overall for a budget first time installer system, I would say it performs very well. Having the inverter allows me to runt eh outdoor "beer fridge" rather than carrying a cooler and dealing with ice. Having power to run the microwave or coffee pot in the morning before generator hours in a campground was super nice. The only downfall I noticed was that I got the BMS to shut the battery down one morning trying to run the microwave and electric tea kettle, but was easy enough to get it back on by hooking up my NOCO jumper. I am no expert, but this is a pretty well thought out budget freindly system.

 

[Waterjunky]

Nice system Shady.....

 

[mesquito_creek]

I will chime in with my $.02.

Recently put together and installed a solar/inverter/LiFePo4 system on our trailer, a Gradn Design Imagine 2800BH. Here are the basics of what I installed.

400watt Renogy solar with the 30amp PWM controller. This was on sale on ebay for $460

Go Power 3000watt inverter, which hs a built in auto transfer switch and charger, bought used, never installed off ebay for $950.

Zooms Power Lithium 200AH battery, saw Will Prowse review and it seemed like a decent battery for the $610.

Renogy Battery Monitor for $55.

Two battery disconnects, T-Class 400 amp fuse, 30 amp solar circuit breaker, 4/0 welding wire, lugs and other misc items about $600.

I ordered everything in early March and got it all by Mid March, started the install work betwen kids baseball games and birthday partys and such the weekend of March 19th. I would say I have less than 40 hours total time working on the install. I am a DIY'er for sure, it is not a perfect install, but it works pretty well. We took a five night trip last week and the system worked great when we camped where we had sun. Was able to run the heater all night, and still have enough power in teh morning to make coffee.

Overall for a budget first time installer system, I would say it performs very well. Having the inverter allows me to runt eh outdoor "beer fridge" rather than carrying a cooler and dealing with ice. Having power to run the microwave or coffee pot in the morning before generator hours in a campground was super nice. The only downfall I noticed was that I got the BMS to shut the battery down one morning trying to run the microwave and electric tea kettle, but was easy enough to get it back on by hooking up my NOCO jumper. I am no expert, but this is a pretty well thought out budget freindly system.

Nice work. I like the price point and quality of everything you put in. The GoPower etc.. That Zooms battery is a Chins clone and there are lot of them out there. I personally have a couple of the Amperetime Chins battery clones also with great success so far. Anything with a heating element like the tea pot is going to start pushing up against the 3000 watt inverter with the microwave going. Simple enough to modify your behavior to avoid that situation. Not worth extra inverter size or stand by draw. But an inline fuse/breaker might be good to pop before the BMS has to do the work if you can figure that part out. Otherwise, just avoid that condition. Even with a bigger inverter I run up against this. Electric fireplace heater going, coffee pot on, running a couple of computer monitors and someone hits the microwave right at the time the fridge is cycling! Inverter fault!... no biggy.

 

[Cdog]

I just talked to the guy at Battle born. Definitely sold on the MultiPlus II 12V system. I need at least 300 AH of batteries to run the minimum for the inverter. A soft start for the main AC and some other fuses and what not. I'd like to be able to run the main AC for an hour or so while we're in route to cool the trailer before we get there and this set up with 4-100AH batts does that. Even better once I add solar.

He recommended a 400W solar add on when ready. This system has monitor apps so no need to run a fixed monitor access point inside of the trailer.
Here's the std kit. I'm doing the better inverter.

Battle Born Energy Towable 30A Kit

Upgrade your rig with our Towable 30Amp kits. We included all the components you'll need to get out there and stay out there!

battlebornbatteries.com

 

[mesquito_creek]

I just talked to the guy at Battle born. Definitely sold on the MultiPlus II 12V system. I need at least 300 AH of batteries to run the minimum for the inverter. A soft start for the main AC and some other fuses and what not. I'd like to be able to run the main AC for an hour or so while we're in route to cool the trailer before we get there and this set up with 4-100AH batts does that. Even better once I add solar.

He recommended a 400W solar add on when ready. This system has monitor apps so no need to run a fixed monitor access point inside of the trailer.
Here's the std kit. I'm doing the better inverter.

Battle Born Energy Towable 30A Kit

Upgrade your rig with our Towable 30Amp kits. We included all the components you'll need to get out there and stay out there!

battlebornbatteries.com

Four 12v 100ah batteries is 12x400=4800 watt hours of storage. My coleman axcel 15000 btu acs use about 1600-1800 (measured on victron shunt) watts. You should have 4800/1800=2.6 hours of operation. If you have the smaller ac even more run time. 2.6 hours assumes the compressor never shuts off or cycles, you may get even more if it cycles a little.

Thats a top of the line system! Will be great.