Just Checking - Who likes swimming in wastewater?

[Waylon Gates]

Lake Havasu City is proposing to start dumping wastewater (treated) into the lake. Just to be clear the water although Grade A+ is not permitted for prolonged human contact. Hoping that enough people will let the powers that be know that they don't want more ick in the lake.

City awaiting permit to discharge treated wastewater into Lake Havasu

Lake Havasu City might have found another use for its excess treated wastewater — discharging it into the lake.

www.havasunews.com

 

[SeanRitchie]

I've been told by a very trusted source that other cities have been doing this upriver for decades.

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

If they dump it in the channel in the summer, it might actually make the water quality better.

But other than that, not a fan of this idea.

@RiverDave might be a good use for that sign truck.

 

[Waylon Gates]

I've been told by a very trusted source that other cities have been doing this upriver for decades.

This is true, it is also true that the lake used to be crystal clear with considerably less algae. For those of us that remember the lake when the word havasu actually matched the color and beauty of the lake, we would love to see it be more like that and less green and murky as it is now.

 

[callbob]

has to be cleaner than the water in the channel all summer

 

[Looking Glass]

I've been told by a very trusted source that other cities have been doing this upriver for decades.

"Trusted Source"

 

[Waylon Gates]

The rest of the picture is that the city has onshore users that would take this water, but since they have to pay by the gallon they don't take as much as they would if the price was greatly reduced. So big picture this is just mismanagement. I am not one of the users, but I have had lengthy in depth discussions with some of the largest users. Obviously I am against this proposal, cleaner water for my families recreation and enjoyment is what I am trying to champion.

Specifically the golf courses could use nearly double of what they currently use, but the quality of the water is so bad that they have to mix it with potabale water, or greatly treat it to be able to use it. The cost of treating and filtering it is not justified for them based on what they pay for it. The city needs to get rid of it, so a simple solution that keeps the wastewater out of the lake is to reduce the cost to the users to allow them to spend that money to treat the water. When correctly treated the water would be ideal for watering the golf courses and they would be able to water more. This would have an additional benefit of having greener more lush courses.

 

[530RL]

I agree that upgrading treatment facilities, expanding the delivery system of wastewater to more users and/or lowering the price charged for wastewater would be a better solution.

However all of those would require higher rate increases. And peole don’t want higher water and sewer rates especially retirees.

It’s the age old struggle.

 

[2Driver]

As a friend thats involved with LHC treatment told me. ….No machines or systems work 100% of the time and when a waste water plant goes down they don't warehouse the incoming sewage, it keeps rolling. Think about it, ever get an alert telling you not to use your drains for a day due to the system being off line?

I learned a bit from being involved with the Buckskin waste water project in Parker. The biggest thing was that Phosphates ( the nutrients in soaps and detergents spur mass plant and algae growth) were removed in septic tank’s leach, but they flow through city sewer systems. Im sure thats the change you are seeing in the lake. It equates to the nutrients that flow into lakes from upstream farming and cause mass algae blooms. Look up Lake Billy Chinook north of Bend OR. To make matters worse it doesn't burn off but accumulates over time. LOL and the city told us the sewer was for environmental reasons.

The other interesting thing about the river ( Parker) was that at low river the gravity pull on septic systems is at its highest. Makes sense, like digging a hole at the edge of the water at the beach then the ocean goes out and the hole drains.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

That's good water to irrigate golf courses or use for construction. I see no reason to dump it in the lake.

 

[Waylon Gates]

I agree that upgrading treatment facilities, expanding the delivery system of wastewater to more users and/or lowering the price charged for wastewater would be a better solution.

However all of those would require higher rate increases. And peole don’t want higher water and sewer rates especially retirees.

It’s the age old struggle.

This is a specific case where this is not 100% true. While there are never free lunches, the infrastructure and current treatment facilities are already in place. The additional treatment required for the commercial users would be paid for by them. The idea that the water being dumped into the lake is less costly than giving it to another user is poorly thought out. The city can only charge for the wastewater that there are buyers for, the rest of the water is dumped and disposed of at a cost to the city. Reclaimed water is the only thing that I can think of that is literally a problem for the city because they have too much, but yet they charge people to take it.

 

[monkeyswrench]

One of my customers does something called "arsenic filtration media" something. Has to do with removing arsenic from ground water. The local waste treatment facility for my town is at the headwaters to the Agua Fria. Many of the wells he services are downstream, along that same area. He said you can track the contamination back to when that plant opened. That's pretty frightening.

Another thing I've read, but don't know how true it is, is that the current filtration and treatment cannot remove the pharmaceutical waste passed through our bodies.

Something to think about, as posted above, when the system goes down. Imagine heading out to the lake for a weekend, and all the ramps are closed, and the lake is empty. Biohazard warnings, and potential reopen dates posted...like the beach after storms

 

[propcheck]

maybe Check with Californians they seem to be super good with water management

 

[c_land]

Lake Havasu City is proposing to start dumping wastewater (treated) into the lake. Just to be clear the water although Grade A+ is not permitted for prolonged human contact. Hoping that enough people will let the powers that be know that they don't want more ick in the lake.

City awaiting permit to discharge treated wastewater into Lake Havasu

Lake Havasu City might have found another use for its excess treated wastewater — discharging it into the lake.

www.havasunews.com

I have swam in Lake Elsinore. I am immune

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I've been told by a very trusted source that other cities have been doing this upriver for decades.

Pretty sure Vegas effluent (treated waste water) flows into Lake Mead

Pretty much any city or town on a river uses the water way to get rid of effluent.

 

[Kachina26]

That's good water to irrigate golf courses or use for construction. I see no reason to dump it in the lake.

I think this thread isn’t about dumping it in the lake, it’s about negotiating a better price on the treated water.

 

[Ladsm]

Your already swimming in it. Bullhead sold all its waste water to Phoenix and pumps it right into the river. Follow the $$. Your sewer water is gold and they are selling it down river.

 

[DaveH]

Pretty sure Vegas effluent (treated waste water) flows into Lake Meade.

Pretty much any city or town on a river uses the water way to get rid of effluent.

100%

its called the "vegas wash" and people act like its some kind of wetlands preserve. hahaha its entirely the runoff from the treatment plant that runs through there, then it is tunneled under lake las vegas and dumped in Mead.

 

[monkeyswrench]

 

[The Chicken]

As a friend thats involved with LHC treatment told me. ….No machines or systems work 100% of the time and when a waste water plant goes down they don't warehouse the incoming sewage, it keeps rolling. Think about it, ever get an alert telling you not to use your drains for a day due to the system being off line?

I learned a bit from being involved with the Buckskin waste water project in Parker. The biggest thing was that Phosphates ( the nutrients in soaps and detergents spur mass plant and algae growth) were removed in septic tank’s leach, but they flow through city sewer systems. Im sure thats the change you are seeing in the lake. It equates to the nutrients that flow into lakes from upstream farming and cause mass algae blooms. Look up Lake Billy Chinook north of Bend OR. To make matters worse it doesn't burn off but accumulates over time. LOL and the city told us the sewer was for environmental reasons.

The other interesting thing about the river ( Parker) was that at low river the gravity pull on septic systems is at its highest. Makes sense, like digging a hole at the edge of the water at the beach then the ocean goes out and the hole drains.

Buckskin Wastewater....
This brings back some unpleasant memories of a time when I worked on their old enclosed treatment plant.
Ventilation fans long since broken.
Air filters for the big air pumps corroded and used to practically nothing.
Almost no lighting in the place.
I got there and prior to entering, asked the poor guy they had put to work there with no training for their "sniffer" or air quality monitor so we could test the air before entering. His response was something like "What's that and why do you need it?" (For those that don't know, wastewater can emit a number of deadly gasses-you always want some sort of air quality tester at the very least.)
After borrowing a handheld sniffer we entered to preview the job of re-lighting the place.
At one point I leaned a bit on a railing that was there to keep people from falling into the giant swirling tank of ass chili, and damn near fell in because someone had cleverly replaced the long since corroded aluminum hand rail with a piece of flimsy PVC pipe and you couldn't tell in the dark. Boy was I upset. I think it was at about that point I pulled off the job and told them we weren't coming back.
The place was a nightmare and a death trap.
I'm sure it has been brought up to speed by now, this was 20 some years ago.

 

[outboardrick]

The rest of the picture is that the city has onshore users that would take this water, but since they have to pay by the gallon they don't take as much as they would if the price was greatly reduced. So big picture this is just mismanagement. I am not one of the users, but I have had lengthy in depth discussions with some of the largest users. Obviously I am against this proposal, cleaner water for my families recreation and enjoyment is what I am trying to champion.

Specifically the golf courses could use nearly double of what they currently use, but the quality of the water is so bad that they have to mix it with potabale water, or greatly treat it to be able to use it. The cost of treating and filtering it is not justified for them based on what they pay for it. The city needs to get rid of it, so a simple solution that keeps the wastewater out of the lake is to reduce the cost to the users to allow them to spend that money to treat the water. When correctly treated the water would be ideal for watering the golf courses and they would be able to water more. This would have an additional benefit of having greener more lush courses.

And their other plan was to dump it back into the aquifer, great idea!

 

[rrrr]

I hate to inject facts into a conversation that's going so well, but. . .

https://www.unitywater.com/-/media/unitywater/pdf-factsheets-and-brochures/commercial-and-industrial-recycled-water-fact-sheet.pdf

 

[Twitchy]

Your already swimming in it. Bullhead sold all its waste water to Phoenix and pumps it right into the river. Follow the $$. Your sewer water is gold and they are selling it down river.

I don’t know where you heard that. In Bullhead, we treat it and it flows to an RIB where it soaks back into the ground. That being said they want to send section 10 treatment plants effluent into the river in the future but that’s still a ways away. Laughlin on the other hand sends theirs to the river.

 

[Ladsm]

I don’t know where you heard that. In Bullhead, we treat it and it flows to an RIB where it soaks back into the ground. That being said they want to send section 10 treatment plants effluent into the river in the future but that’s still a ways away. Laughlin on the other hand sends theirs to the river.

Heard it from Tom Brady (ex-mayor) who made the deal with other cities to buy it. Maybe it hasnt happened yet but they got Millions $$ for it.

 

[Waylon Gates]

I hate to inject facts into a conversation that's going so well, but. . .

https://www.unitywater.com/-/media/unitywater/pdf-factsheets-and-brochures/commercial-and-industrial-recycled-water-fact-sheet.pdf

Thank you for providing this. It points out the exact reason why no one should want this water, as it is, dumped into the lake. The main use that isn't allowed with Grade A+ water is anything that involves human contact other than incidental. This water not only should not be ingested, which is why it isn't allowed for any use where it could be ingested even if not on purpose, (think swimming). If you look at the pdf you will see that swimming pools or spas are one of the specific uses which is not permitted.

 

[~JM~]

Another thing I've read, but don't know how true it is, is that the current filtration and treatment cannot remove the pharmaceutical waste passed through our bodies.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S258991472400046X

Drugs found in Puget Sound salmon from tainted wastewater

From Prozac to caffeine to cholesterol medicine, from ibuprofen to bug spray, researchers found an alphabet soup of drugs and other personal-care products in sewage-treatment wastewater and in the tissue of juvenile chinook in Puget Sound.

www.seattletimes.com

Salmon Full of Cocaine and Antidepressants? Study Finds Puget Sound Fish Full of Drugs

Salmon in the Puget Sound, much like your favorite athletes, have tested positive for drugs.

www.yahoo.com

Only Half of Drugs Removed by Sewage Treatment

Only about half of the prescription drugs and other newly emerging contaminants in sewage are removed by treatment plants says a new report

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[boatnam2]

Just doing some rough math, when I was younger and could stay at the sandbar all day standing in water, probably pissed 20-30 times, times that by 500 people doing the same thing, your standing in waste water, sure channel isn't much better with the warm non flowing water except its 1000 people.

 

[Twitchy]

Heard it from Tom Brady (ex-mayor) who made the deal with other cities to buy it. Maybe it hasnt happened yet but they got Millions $$ for it.

Oh maybe. I’m a plant operator for the city, but I’ve never heard that before.

 

[Bajastu]

CA just dumps it into the ocean, or they have recycled water for irrigation for parks, golf courses, and other common areas owned by cities. Orange County just recharges it into the ground to hold back sea water infiltration.

It’s true that pharmaceuticals and drugs are not filtered out of the effluent. The solution to pollution is delusion. Pumping the effluent into Havasu would have very little effect on the water quality. I’d say that the effluent would be cleaner than the channel water during the summer.

The other solution is toilet to tap. How do you feel about drinking shit water?

The real solution is to create a recycled water program.

 

[napanutt]

I hate to inject facts into a conversation that's going so well, but. . .

https://www.unitywater.com/-/media/unitywater/pdf-factsheets-and-brochures/commercial-and-industrial-recycled-water-fact-sheet.pdf

I saw no mention about grazing. I was going to inquire but I googled myself.

"In the Napa Valley, recycled water is used to irrigate golf courses, vineyards, landscaping, pastureland, parks, playing fields, and a cemetery. Using recycled water for irrigation in place of potable or groundwater helps conserve water resources."

When I was living in Napa, I always assumed that these large grazing fields south of town were watered with treated wastewater. Evidently, they are.
So, I guess wastewater is good enough to irrigate the feed cows that we either eat or drink milk from.

 

[rivermobster]

Just doing some rough math, when I was younger and could stay at the sandbar all day standing in water, probably pissed 20-30 times, times that by 500 people doing the same thing, your standing in waste water, sure channel isn't much better with the warm non flowing water except its 1000 people.

Can you imagine how much cocaine and speed was pissed out???

 

[Boatymcboatface]

I’ve skied in mission bay San Diego after a storm and they had a water advisory we didn’t know. When I jumped in that morning I said “dude idle out and then hit it! it smells like a porta potty in here!

Skied for a bit and dropped. It didn’t smell where I dropped. Next skier up ends up dropping about where I started and had the same reaction. Couple of the younger skiers with us that day ended up with a nasty rash.

 

[Racey]

Vegas has been sending their treated water back into mead for years.... It's no big deal if testing and systems are done properly

 

[Riverbound]

You all sit in the channel all day in untreated wastewater what’s the difference?

 

[HST4ME]

Bottle it up in fire extinguishers and sell it to californtard.

 

[Instigator]

I've been told that the best solution to solution is dilution. They will likely use the Colorado River to dilute the discharged water.
Lol

 

[Havaduner]

So, they want to dump water not fit for human contact into a lake used for recreation?
How is the water already being siphoned OUT of the lake treated before we drink it??

 

[JL95]

Correct me if I am wrong but are we as socal residents, not drinking this same Colorado river water that we are talking about? I know some water municipalities source from groundwater etc.. Lake Mathews claims it is the end point reservoir for the Colorado river water

 

[Lumpy]

I hate to inject facts into a conversation that's going so well, but. . .

https://www.unitywater.com/-/media/unitywater/pdf-factsheets-and-brochures/commercial-and-industrial-recycled-water-fact-sheet.pdf

Implement a recycled water management plan for the site. Unitywater customer service will assist you to develop your

plan from our template.

Restrict public access to the recycled water by:

allowing a minimum 30-metre buffer zone between the public and the nearest public access point; and

ensuring no spray drifts beyond boundaries of the recycled water usage site.

Control any drifting spray by, for example: ensuring low boom spray positions; using large-sized nozzles on spray equipment

to create large droplets instead of mist; not using recycled water in windy conditions; or using vegetation screening.

the If using recycled water, wash hands with soap and potable water (town water) before eating, drinking or smoking and at

end of the working day.

When using recycled water classes A - D, minimise your exposure to recycled water by:

wearing waterproof gloves at all times;

conducting a risk assessment on the use of recycled water in the workplace; and

ensuring all employees or others exposed to recycled water are trained in appropriate health and safety procedures.

Ensure correct signage is in place in appropriate locations (e.g. high traffic areas adjacent area of use, front reception

areas, public congregation areas).

Ensure that recycled water equipment, taps, pipes, tanks etc are appropriately labelled with “recycled water”,

“non-potable water” or “not for drinking”, and that the colour lilac (purple) is used for all pipes and accessories.

All taps should be lockable.

Do not irrigate with recycled water if there is a risk that the public will ingest, breathe or make skin contact with droplets.

Do not drink, shower or bathe in recycled water.

After contact with skin, wash immediately with potable water.

Avoid contact with eyes – wear safety glasses or similar.



Pretty much says it all right there.

 

[PRIMO]

The Lake is a Sewer.....
We Have The Brain Eating Ameoba !

 

[rivermobster]

The Lake is a Sewer.....
We Have The Brain Eating Ameoba !

I wonder how this will affect the piranha population?

 

[Bajastu]

Channel alligator problem......

I wonder how this will affect the piranha populati

 

[FROGMAN524]

When the Hyperion sewage plant at LAX went down a couple years ago, they shut down all the beaches within like 30 miles so you couldn’t go in the water or go surfing or do anything.

 

[Looking Glass]

I don’t know where you heard that. In Bullhead, we treat it and it flows to an RIB where it soaks back into the ground. That being said they want to send section 10 treatment plants effluent into the river in the future but that’s still a ways away. Laughlin on the other hand sends theirs to the river.

SO? What's a Few More Million Gallons Going To Matter?

 

[Taboma]

So Cal folks are drinking it daily via the Lake Havasu/Colorado Aqueduct as are those in areas of Phoenix via the CAP, or Central Arizona Project Aqueduct which also originates from Lake Havasu.
Funny how nobody gives two shits about drinking water with fish dying and crapping in it, or ducks and birds either.

 

[FROGMAN524]

I’m on a well and have full filtration/softening. Best water around. Well is 850 feet deep.

 

[Twitchy]

SO? What's a Few More Million Gallons Going To Matter?

Probably not at all. I would prefer 0 gallons. But honestly a well ran treatment plant produces water that is probably cleaner than anything in that lake.

 

[sonicss31]

I grew up on Bear Creek in MD a stones throw from Bethlehem Steel. I’m a living testament that you will be OK. Swam, fished and crabbed those waters, no issues.

 

[rrrr]

Thank you for providing this. It points out the exact reason why no one should want this water, as it is, dumped into the lake. The main use that isn't allowed with Grade A+ water is anything that involves human contact other than incidental. This water not only should not be ingested, which is why it isn't allowed for any use where it could be ingested even if not on purpose, (think swimming). If you look at the pdf you will see that swimming pools or spas are one of the specific uses which is not permitted.

I'm pretty sure drinking lake water while swimming in Lake Havasu isn't a thing.

Based on the requirements for A+ treated water, I wouldn't be surprised if the lake has more incidental EColi bacteria in some areas than the treated water contains. The standards for A+ classification:

For Class A+ reclaimed water, the treatment requirements are secondary treatment, filtration, nitrogen removal treatment and disinfection using “oxidants, UV light, or other agents to kill or inactivate pathogenic organisms” (Ariz. Admin. Code § 18-11).

Class A+ water is not required for a specific type of direct reuse but may be used for any Class A, B, or C reuse. For Class A reclaimed water, the treatment requirements are secondary treatment, filtration and disinfection.

 

[2Driver]

Id be willing to bet that there isn't a molecule of water in the river that hasn't been taken out, used, and put back by the time it gets to Havasu or Parker.