Joe Rogan fighting Covid

[dnewps]

Where is the FDA on good oral and nasal hygiene? The virus first parks itself in your nose and throat and grows for days. There are several studies that show betadine/iodine kills the virus instantly. 10:1 water/iodine nasal spray, 20:1 water/iodine gargle 2x daily is a huge help.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Hey @Uncle Dave why are you so anti therapy/treatment? And don't say you're not because you are. It's a serious question not an attack, it might help us understand where you are coming from.

Im not anti treatment at all, in another thread I recommended Ivermectin (vs HCQ) for this who wished to forgo the Vax.

If you go back to my earliest thread on this Ive maintained that HCQ and ivermectin should be available to anyone who wants them and that they probably help, and as the data came through on ivermectin efficacy I continued to support it.

What I won't do is endorse the treatments as effective against hospitalization or death as the vax because the data doesn't show that.

 

[4Waters]

Im not anti treatment at all, in another thread I recommended Ivermectin (vs HCQ) for this who wished to forgo the Vax.

If you go back to my earliest thread on this Ive maintained that HCQ and ivermectin should be available to anyone who wants them and that they probably help, and as the data came through on ivermectin efficacy I continued to support it.

What I won't do is endorse the treatments as effective against hospitalization or death as the vax because the data doesn't show that.

That only answered part of the question, what about these other therapies.

BTW. I guarantee you that Ivermectin and HCQ are way more effective than the vax, if the government came out from the get go and said we can't produce enough of those meds to prescribe to everyone and that is why we need a vaccine of some sort, I think almost all of us would have been ok with that but the government instead stated that they don't work in the treatment of covid you need to get vaxed, they flat out lied and that is why people don't trust this vax.

 

[Uncle Dave]

That only answered part of the question, what about these other therapies.

BTW. I guarantee you that Ivermectin and HCQ are way more effective than the vax, if the government came out from the get go and said we can't produce enough of those meds to prescribe to everyone and that is why we need a vaccine of some sort, I think almost all of us would have been ok with that but the government instead stated that they don't work in the treatment of covid you need to get vaxed, they flat out lied and that is why people don't trust this vax.

I think they should be available to those who want them.

I think smart doctors trying to save lives should throw the book at it with whatever they can get barring known medicine interactions

Have you seen any 2 clinical trials worth of evidence that they are better? I have not.

Did you get monoclonal antibodies when you were sick? HCq? Remdisivir, - what were you able to/ did you get?
Did you stay in the hospital I dont recall.

Questions - If one doenst get the vax because of lack of FDA approval and fear of long term effects, why is then just fine to take another treatment that isnt FDA approved with unknown and possible long term side effects?

Lets say we end up in the same place with the same unknowns -whats a better solution.

- a combination of drugs with the same unknowns are given in a hospital with a total cost 20K,
Joe rogan has the doctors come to him, most everyone else get hospitalized.

- a (lets say) 30.00 vaccine.

Whats the smarter choice for billions of poeple ?

 

[4Waters]

I think they should be available to those who want them.

I think smart doctors trying to save lives should throw the book at it with whatever they can get barring known medicine interactions

Have you seen any 2 clinical trials worth of evidence that they are better? I have not.

Did you get monoclonal antibodies when you were sick? HCq? Remdisivir, - what were you able to/ did you get?
Did you stay in the hospital I dont recall.

Questions - If one doenst get the vax because of lack of FDA approval and fear of long term effects, why is then just fine to take another treatment that isnt FDA approved with unknown and possible long term side effects?

Lets say we end up in the same place with the same unknowns -whats a better solution.

- a combination of drugs with the same unknowns are given in a hospital with a total cost 20K,
Joe rogan has the doctors come to him, most everyone else get hospitalized.

- a (lets say) 30.00 vaccine.

Whats the smarter choice for billions of poeple ?

Kaiser doesn't give the antibodies as outpatient, I couldn't get shit because it was Kaiser and I agree with you regarding the unknown therapies but why hold it, just give it, if people vexed or not want it then who cares it's a clinical trial see what happens same as the vax, we are seeing what is going to happen with the vax. Don't hold anything back vaxed or not, all it means is we will learn what works. Remember there are absolutely no professional medical workers, they all practice their jobs.

 

[t&y]

I think what we’re learning from Israel is that the vaccinated are super spreaders.

Quarantine the vaxxed!!!

Yup, kinda hard to deny it unless you have an agenda to push.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Yup, kinda hard to deny it unless you have an agenda to push.

Curious about this - based on what?

 

[Uncle Dave]

Kaiser doesn't give the antibodies as outpatient, I couldn't get shit because it was Kaiser and I agree with you regarding the unknown therapies but why hold it, just give it, if people vexed or not want it then who cares it's a clinical trial see what happens same as the vax, we are seeing what is going to happen with the vax. Don't hold anything back vaxed or not, all it means is we will learn what works. Remember there are absolutely no professional medical workers, they all practice their jobs.

I think the held view is that without known efficacy you could be putting the patient in further danger, get no outcome while vastly increasing cost.

"Practicing medicine" is a reality.

 

[4Waters]

I think the held view is that without known efficacy you could be putting the patient in further danger, get no outcome while vastly increasing cost.

"Practicing medicine" is a reality.

Not doing anything put the patient in danger, correct.

The verdict is out, these therapies work but now we need to see under what circumstances they work best. Only one way to do that.

 

[t&y]

Curious about this - based on what?

It's common sense Dave, so if you need a data chart I don't have one.

But I'll give it a shot anyways:
Can we agree the vaccine does not prevent you or anybody else from getting the Virus?
Can we agree the vaccine does not prevent you or anyone from transmitting the virus?
Can we agree that almost all recommendations state if you feel the effects of the virus you should self quarntine?

 

[Uncle Dave]

It's common sense Dave, so if you need a data chart I don't have one.

But I'll give it a shot anyways:
Can we agree the vaccine does not prevent you or anybody else from getting the Virus?
Can we agree the vaccine does not prevent you or anyone from transmitting the virus?
Can we agree that almost all recommendations state if you feel the effects of the virus you should self quarntine?

yes
yes
yes - if you have symptoms. But as you know many (possibly a majority) cases are totally asymptomatic- vaxed or not.

If everyone can get it, and give to everyone else regardless of vax status, how can we determine who did and didnt get it from a vaccinated person?

If it were such common sense to quarantine the vaxed dont you think some health agency, government or hospital chain would have recommended or even mention that ?

 

[bonesfab]

Dr.'s practice medicine, Lawyers Practice law. I started practicing auto repair. You can charge more and there are no consequences if you are wrong.

 

[RCDave]

If it were such common sense to quarantine the vaxed dont you think some health agency, government or hospital chain would have recommended or even mention that ?

Nope.....Its against their agenda and the economic upside potential

 

[traquer]

Funny, I wonder how close to Ivermectin this new pill is? https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...s-later-stage-study-of-pill-to-treat-covid-19

Remember that running a big double-blind study on a drug take a lot of money, and the pharma companies have the most experience with running them. Of course they won't do it for a drug that's out of patent since they can't recoup the cost.

Some private organization will need to do a test of it. Maybe it is already out there somewhere outside the US?

 

[t&y]

yes
yes
yes - if you have symptoms. But as you know many (possibly a majority) cases are totally asymptomatic- vaxed or not.

Hold the phone, are you saying a Vaxed person might not know the have the virus? Thus go on about their lives like normal, attending large gatherings (which is a big No No for the totally reckless non-vaxed), indoor events (another totally reckless thing that the non-vaxed do), walk around in public and talk to people with out a mask on.... you get the point. This is where the common sense inserted.

If everyone can get it, and give to everyone else regardless of vax status, how can we determine who did and didnt get it from a vaccinated person?

So your argument about Vaxed not being super spreaders is what again?

If it were such common sense to quarantine the vaxed dont you think some health agency, government or hospital chain would have recommended or even mention that ?

I did not suggest quarantining vaxed people. It has been suggested recently to quarantine everyone again, but that is not my recommendation. I'm suggesting that using COMMON SENSE, you can easily deduct that Vaxed and NON Vaxed can be super spreaders. The media on the other hand would like you to believe everything that is going on is solely on the backs of the non-vaxed.

Regor is an excellent fisherman and you took the bait hook line and sinker.

 

[spectra3279]

yes
yes
yes - if you have symptoms. But as you know many (possibly a majority) cases are totally asymptomatic- vaxed or not.

If everyone can get it, and give to everyone else regardless of vax status, how can we determine who did and didnt get it from a vaccinated person?

If it were such common sense to quarantine the vaxed dont you think some health agency, government or hospital chain would have recommended or even mention that ?

Again not if there is an agenda.

Now why would a vax have so many poisonous components in it?

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Uncle Dave]

Hold the phone, are you saying a Vaxed person might not know the have the virus? Thus go on about their lives like normal, attending large gatherings (which is a big No No for the totally reckless non-vaxed), indoor events (another totally reckless thing that the non-vaxed do), walk around in public and talk to people with out a mask on.... you get the point. This is where the common sense inserted.



So your argument about Vaxed not being super spreaders is what again?



I did not suggest quarantining vaxed people. It has been suggested recently to quarantine everyone again, but that is not my recommendation. I'm suggesting that using COMMON SENSE, you can easily deduct that Vaxed and NON Vaxed can be super spreaders. The media on the other hand would like you to believe everything that is going on is solely on the backs of the non-vaxed.

Regor is an excellent fisherman and you took the bait hook line and sinker.

Nothing new here. - this is why the vaxed wear masks now.

We cant tell who gives it to who.

Quarantining everyone seems to just delay the inevitable -- current thinking is to let people get sick after 2 jabs.

Regors super power is baiting...seems you took the bait as well.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Again not if there is an agenda.

Now why would a vax have so many poisonous components in it?

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

without knowing specifically what you are referring to......

There are long standing arguments about many vaccines components - thimerisol being one.

Other arguments say "poison" in the right amount can be helpful - like warfarin - also known as rat poison often given as blood pressure medication.

Botox is botulism etcetera.

 

[t&y]

Nothing new here. - this is why the vaxed wear masks now.

We cant tell who give it to who.

Quarantining everyone seems to just delay the inevitable -- current thinking is just let people get sick after 2 jabs.

Regors super power is baiting...seems you took the bait as well.

So do we agree that by using something as simple as Common Sense, both Vaxed and Non Vaxed can be super spreaders? Pretty sure we agree on that point.

Quarantining has been suggested. Regor is pointing out something related to common sense again. If you are going to quarantine the non vaxed, you should also quarantine the vaxed. They can both be super spreaders. The scary thing about the vaxed, if you believe the reports thus far they may be more likely to not know they have it, thus giving them a false sense of security (amongst other things). Hmmm I wonder if there are any examples of Vaxed people in large gatherings spreading the virus in a very public display?

 

[Uncle Dave]

So do we agree that by using something as simple as Common Sense, both Vaxed and Non Vaxed can be super spreaders? Pretty sure we agree on that point.

Quarantining has been suggested. Regor is pointing out something related to common sense again. If you are going to quarantine the non vaxed, you should also quarantine the vaxed. They can both be super spreaders. The scary thing about the vaxed, if you believe the reports thus far they may be more likely to not know they have it, thus giving them a false sense of security (amongst other things). Hmmm I wonder if there are any examples of Vaxed people in large gatherings spreading the virus in a very public display?

"Can" but do they?

This isnt as straightforward as it seems - the Vaxxed tend to possess lower viral load and as such tend to be transmissive for shorter window.

Campbell has some interesting data here. studies show Unvaxed R-naught as 4.0 and vaxed as 2.0 - but the datasets aren't huge and dont answer all my questions.

If were back to lockdown seem it should be everyone unless more data is presented otherwise because no disease will collapse unless the R-naught is under 1, but I dont think it matters anymore as this is endemic now. (to be dour)

Im totally open to any data you have.

 

[TeamGreene]

Yes . Ivermectin is an anti parasitic medication approved for human use under the trade name Stromectol . 3 mg tablets . As a pharmacist I’ve been dispensing this medication ever since I can remember . It’s extremely suspicious to me the way our media has waged an outright misinformation campaign on any medication that may potentially help treat Covid infection . They did the same thing with Hydroxychloroquine last year calling it “aquarium cleaner”. You can argue it doesn’t work , but to say these meds are not safe for human use is an outright lie

Simple fact is nobody is going to get rich off of therapeutics that are already on the market so the kool aid drinkers get behind the propaganda pushers and squash anyone who dares to question the CDC. With big tech in their pocket to "fact check" and delete any and all alternatives it's been a cluster fuck from the start.

 

[HotRod82]

The state of Massachusetts said yesterday the fully vaccinated now make up 40% of the hospitalized. It's obvious where this is heading, as this trend is developing all over the world. The vaccines are slowly losing their grip as the virus mutates it's way around the vaccine. They will not be able to modify the vaccines quickly enough to contain the variants. The answer is in the therapeutics, and more importantly, personal responsibility for your overall health and exposure. It looks like covid will be the cure for obesity and diabetes we have been looking for. We are in for a rough ride, all we can hope for at this point is the overall kill rate stays under 1%.

 

[regor]

I'm not fishing, this was a study out of Vietnam.

Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant Among Vaccinated Healthcare Workers, Vietnam

Background: Data on breakthrough SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant infections are limited.<br><br>Methods: We studied breakthrough infections among healthcare workers of

papers.ssrn.com

Viral loads of breakthrough Delta variant infection cases were 251 times higher than those of cases infected with old strains detected between March-April 2020.

Interpretation: Breakthrough Delta variant infections are associated with high viral loads, prolonged PCR positivity, and low levels of vaccine-induced neutralizing antibodies, explaining the transmission between the vaccinated people. Physical distancing measures remain critical to reduce SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant transmission.

Download the pdf study Dave, would like your take.

 

[just_floatin]

Worth the listen.

Will Humble, Executive director for the Arizona Public Health Association - The Gaydos and Chad Show

If your vaccinated your chances of catching delta are worse if you got this certain vaccine? Gaydos and Chad discuss.

omny.fm

 

[94Nautique]

I really like Joe but this is fucking hilarious.

Joe Rogan - I dont want to take an experimental non approved Vax with unknown side and long term effects.

Joe Rogan - gets covid and takes experimental non approved monoclonal antibodies with nasty and unknown side effects and unknown long term effects.

It was his data driven choice.

 

[94Nautique]

The state of Massachusetts said yesterday the fully vaccinated now make up 40% of the hospitalized. It's obvious where this is heading, as this trend is developing all over the world. The vaccines are slowly losing their grip as the virus mutates it's way around the vaccine. They will not be able to modify the vaccines quickly enough to contain the variants. The answer is in the therapeutics, and more importantly, personal responsibility for your overall health and exposure. It looks like covid will be the cure for obesity and diabetes we have been looking for. We are in for a rough ride, all we can hope for at this point is the overall kill rate stays under 1%.

And it’s actually helping to spike the mutation curve, not flatten it.

No surprise to most people.

 

[Uncle Dave]

It was his data driven choice.

He certainly never claimed to do the research or talk about it, more likely his doctor knew his shit, but Im eager to hear what comes on his show about it.

Im glad Joe is ok- I like Joe.

Its also more likely that when poeple cant breathe they stop giving a shit about what is an isnt approved tested or what the long term effects might be.

 

[regor]

Top Health Officials Push Back Against Biden's Booster Jabs Plan

Bottom line: They need more data before they can be sure about the efficacy of booster shots.
FRI SEP 3, AT 8:23 AM

 

[spectra3279]

without knowing specifically what you are referring to......

There are long standing arguments about many vaccines components - thimerisol being one.

Other arguments say "poison" in the right amount can be helpful - like warfarin - also known as rat poison often given as blood pressure medication.

Botox is botulism etcetera.

Botox as far as I know serves not actual medicinal purpose.

Graphene or however you spell it. Watched a video of blood cells it was used on. Not very pretty. But again, why would a vaccine for covid have poisons in it? I don't see the purpose for it. Vitamins and actually helpful stuff yes but not poisonous components.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Uncle Dave]

I'm not fishing, this was a study out of Vietnam.

Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant Among Vaccinated Healthcare Workers, Vietnam

Background: Data on breakthrough SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant infections are limited.<br><br>Methods: We studied breakthrough infections among healthcare workers of

papers.ssrn.com

Viral loads of breakthrough Delta variant infection cases were 251 times higher than those of cases infected with old strains detected between March-April 2020.

Interpretation: Breakthrough Delta variant infections are associated with high viral loads, prolonged PCR positivity, and low levels of vaccine-induced neutralizing antibodies, explaining the transmission between the vaccinated people. Physical distancing measures remain critical to reduce SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant transmission.

Download the pdf study Dave, would like your take.

Will do..

We know Delta basically replaced alpha.

 

[spectra3279]

So do we agree that by using something as simple as Common Sense, both Vaxed and Non Vaxed can be super spreaders? Pretty sure we agree on that point.

Quarantining has been suggested. Regor is pointing out something related to common sense again. If you are going to quarantine the non vaxed, you should also quarantine the vaxed. They can both be super spreaders. The scary thing about the vaxed, if you believe the reports thus far they may be more likely to not know they have it, thus giving them a false sense of security (amongst other things). Hmmm I wonder if there are any examples of Vaxed people in large gatherings spreading the virus in a very public display? [emoji2369]

If there is, you will never hear of it

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Ragged Edge]

In San Diego, does it require any doctors referral ? Or, if you think you have COVID, you walk in, get tested and if positive, you're an immediate candidate ?

This is what the urgent care did with my wife. She tested positive and they offered the Regen-Cov therapy. I looked up some info on my phone and read it to her so she could make the best decision she could. This type of therapy has been around for a long time but UD is correct, this particular one is new for this virus.

 

[94Nautique]

He certainly never claimed to do the research or talk about it, more likely his doctor knew his shit, but Im eager to hear what comes on his show about it.

Im glad Joe is ok- I like Joe.

Its also more likely that when poeple cant breathe they stop giving a shit about what is an isnt approved tested or what the long term effects might be.

No offense, but does someone have to explicitly call that out else they are relegated to the “non-thinker” pile?

we don’t read minds. As well, one mans data driven process is another mans swag. This is based on daily experience, your mileage may vary.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The state of Massachusetts said yesterday the fully vaccinated now make up 40% of the hospitalized. It's obvious where this is heading, as this trend is developing all over the world. The vaccines are slowly losing their grip as the virus mutates it's way around the vaccine. They will not be able to modify the vaccines quickly enough to contain the variants. The answer is in the therapeutics, and more importantly, personal responsibility for your overall health and exposure. It looks like covid will be the cure for obesity and diabetes we have been looking for. We are in for a rough ride, all we can hope for at this point is the overall kill rate stays under 1%.

But @GRADS said it’s only 5% in his county

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Top Health Officials Push Back Against Biden's Booster Jabs Plan

Bottom line: They need more data before they can be sure about the efficacy of booster shots.
FRI SEP 3, AT 8:23 AM



View attachment 1045305

What do you mean we can’t keep pricking you with something that does not work?

Fauci in November - “We just need all yous to take vaccine 2.0 and all this will be ovaaaa.”

 

[GRADS]

But @GRADS said it’s only 5% in his county

Yep. You're more than welcome to go to the Placer County website and verify it yourself.

 

[94Nautique]

on a side note, what’s the Covid caused death tally for college and professional sports athletes?

 

[Looking Glass]

Are you sure this Is "COVID"? What Exit, claims that is all B.S. and a Govt. Scam.

 

[regor]

Are you sure this Is "COVID"? What Exit, claims that is all B.S. and a Govt. Scam.

It's a nasty flu. If you're a lard ass or have underlying conditions or are scared, do what you have to do.

If you think I'm changing my ways or you're going to force me to get a jab of some bullshit that hasn't been CLOSE to fully vetted, you've all got another thing coming.

It is a scam to a certain extent, you know it, we know it.

 

[Looking Glass]

It's a nasty flu. If you're a lard ass or have underlying conditions or are scared, do what you have to do.

If you think I'm changing my ways or you're going to force me to get a jab of some bullshit that hasn't been CLOSE to fully vetted, you've all got another thing coming.

It is a scam to a certain extent, you know it, we know it.

View attachment 1045374
[/QUOTE

To a Certain Extent.

 

[Motor Boater]

It's a nasty flu. If you're a lard ass or have underlying conditions or are scared, do what you have to do.

If you think I'm changing my ways or you're going to force me to get a jab of some bullshit that hasn't been CLOSE to fully vetted, you've all got another thing coming.

It is a scam to a certain extent, you know it, we know it.

View attachment 1045374

I don’t typically disagree with your point of view but It’s not quite that simple. The averages look good but you have to account for all the dead bodies somehow and the simple fact is over 600K people have died so it’s a little more than just a nasty flu. I saw a video of a doctor explaining that for the first time in history we are giving people a positive diagnosis for a illness and not given a treatment plan. Just sent them home to wait. They should be telling each person to throw all of these drugs, vitamins etc at this thing but they aren’t doing that. He sited a drug that was 85% effective and they are not even having people try it???? That 600K number would look a lot better if 85% lived.

 

[regor]

I don’t typically disagree with your point of view but It’s not quite that simple. The averages look good but you have to account for all the dead bodies somehow and the simple fact is over 600K people have died so it’s a little more than just a nasty flu. I saw a video of a doctor explaining that for the first time in history we are giving people a positive diagnosis for a illness and not given a treatment plan. Just sent them home to wait. They should be telling each person to throw all of these drugs, vitamins etc at this thing but they aren’t doing that. He sited a drug that was 85% effective and they are not even having people try it???? That 600K number would look a lot better if 85% lived.

Valid point boater.

Shows just how sinister our and many other governments truly are.

I don't necessarily want to be so cold because I know this has affected millions of people and many here on RDP, but I'm sick and tired of these motherf'ers trying to force unproven vaccines and attempting to control how I function in society.

I'll leave it at this. It's a nasty, NASTY virus for SOME, handle yourselves accordingly.

 

[Looking Glass]

I don’t typically disagree with your point of view but It’s not quite that simple. The averages look good but you have to account for all the dead bodies somehow and the simple fact is over 600K people have died so it’s a little more than just a nasty flu. I saw a video of a doctor explaining that for the first time in history we are giving people a positive diagnosis for a illness and not given a treatment plan. Just sent them home to wait. They should be telling each person to throw all of these drugs, vitamins etc at this thing but they aren’t doing that. He sited a drug that was 85% effective and they are not even having people try it???? That 600K number would look a lot better if 85% lived.

I agree 100%. I am NOT PRO OR AGAINST this whole deal, but a there are 1000's of people dead World Wide. What is it? Something that has the very same factors have Killed people who in general have Not lived a Life Style that is deserving of that.

Just asking, and sure op

 

[regor]

World Covid Deaths-4,550,000

World Population-7,900,000,000

So far, 99.94% of the world has survived it.

 

[regor]

American Covid Deaths-646,000

America Population-328,200,000

So far, 99.81% of Americans have survived it.

 

[Looking Glass]

American Covid Deaths-646,000

America Population-328,200,000

So far, 99.81% of Americans has survived it.

BUT!!, if one of my Loved ones are of the .19%.

 

[regor]

BUT!!, if one of my Loved ones are of the .19%.

Understandable, protect them.

 

[regor]

 

[94Nautique]

I don’t typically disagree with your point of view but It’s not quite that simple. The averages look good but you have to account for all the dead bodies somehow and the simple fact is over 600K people have died so it’s a little more than just a nasty flu. I saw a video of a doctor explaining that for the first time in history we are giving people a positive diagnosis for a illness and not given a treatment plan. Just sent them home to wait. They should be telling each person to throw all of these drugs, vitamins etc at this thing but they aren’t doing that. He sited a drug that was 85% effective and they are not even having people try it???? That 600K number would look a lot better if 85% lived.

The 630k includes people that died WITH PIC not necessarily FROM PIC. The real Covid (the C in PIC) caused deaths are probably in the 100-200k range and almost all had co morbidity issues.

Not to minimize the deaths of those people, but it’s not a drop in the total death bucket, so to speak.

Govts worldwide saw the crisis and took advantage in order to control their populations. It’s that simple. They love to see us blame each other.

Fuck Government

 

[Danger Dave]

"Joe Rogan's amazing quick recovery from the deadly Covid-19 virus while being un-vaccinated truly exemplifies the systemic racism and ingrained white privilege many minorities face." - CNN - MSNBC - Washington Post - Don Lemon