job interviews...

[Yellowboat]

So I've been doing interviews this morning, I'm about half way done.

I swear about of the 1/3 of the guys blew the 1st question very badly.
about half of those were like "what lead laws?" :grumble:

WTF, you would think you could pull in some good talent when you are offering about $12/hour more then union scale. I've yet to have anyone even make it to the skills test.

:swear

 

[lakemadness]

I've been doing the same, interviewing all afternoon. Its amazing what some people choose to wear to an interview. And they wonder why they can never get offered a decent job. Lately it seems I need to schedule 5-6 people to come in when i really only need one position filled. I schedule 5-6 because 1/2 will not even show, out of the other 3 that do show only one is ok.

 

[HOOTER SLED-]

Wow.......... I wish I could just get a damn interview. :grumble:

 

[soupersonic]

Do you know about lead laws and can you paint?

 

[fmo24]

I had a guy come in for an interview wearing a bluetooth ear piece. did not even make an attempt to seem interested. That interview did not last long at all.

 

[Froggystyle]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that while I would be an excellent hire, with serious attention to detail, imminently trainable, experienced in finish work and with a hard work ethic... I have no idea about what a lead law is.

You may consider reviewing your hiring interview, and setting it up for success and not failure. Lead laws can be taught. I would be far more concerned with regard to experience, transportation, history of being on time, no warrants... that kind of stuff.

I would imagine that unless you are hiring a lead remediation expert to help your business, you might be asking the wrong first question.

Also, you may want to have "must have experience with lead laws, and can speak to them with authority" as part of your ad.

Just a thought...

 

[Moneypit]

I have zero experience as a "professional" painter, but hasn't lead based paint been illegal in the US for decades?....Yellow, I can sling paint with the best of them, "whats we painting boss"?
Ray

 

[OCMerrill]

Lead laws can be taught.

It's a one day course. $185.

 

[HOOTER SLED-]

It's a one day course. $185.

Maybe I need to go take a one day course and become a painter?

 

[dribble]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that while I would be an excellent hire, with serious attention to detail, imminently trainable, experienced in finish work and with a hard work ethic... I have no idea about what a lead law is.

You may consider reviewing your hiring interview, and setting it up for success and not failure. Lead laws can be taught. I would be far more concerned with regard to experience, transportation, history of being on time, no warrants... that kind of stuff.

I would imagine that unless you are hiring a lead remediation expert to help your business, you might be asking the wrong first question.

Also, you may want to have "must have experience with lead laws, and can speak to them with authority" as part of your ad.

Just a thought...

And a good one.

 

[Flyinbowtie]

I can't believe you are having that much trouble.
Hell if you were up here my youngest son would gladly work for $12 an hour...he is very trainable, but not a lead law expert either.
He works in a shop where they bend and build computer towers and they just cut the whole staff back to 30 hours a week. Two weeks ago they were teaching him to TIG weld, and now this.
Justin is 23, a single Dad with a 3 yr. old daughter. He has full physical custody of her and lives with us while busting his ass trying to do the best he can by her. He is looking for a place for the two of them, and always hunting for better employment.
There is none in this town. It is dying a slow death.
Not bitching here...just venting a little. sorry.

 

[500bbc]

The "lead laws" referenced are a new Federal EPA business restriction.

Doesn't matter that lead paint has been banned for fifty years, all principles and employees that may, in any way shape or form, encounter lead must attend a class for their certification.


Just basic bureaucratic bullshit but every painter in the country should know this by now.

 

[Moneypit]

I can't believe you are having that much trouble.
Hell if you were up here my youngest son would gladly work for $12 an hour...he is very trainable, but not a lead law expert either.

Better than that, $12 ABOVE union scale is what I read...

The "lead laws" referenced are a new Federal EPA business restriction.
Doesn't matter that lead paint has been banned for fifty years, all principles and employees that may, in any way shape or form, encounter lead must attend a class for their certification.

I see. Like maybe come across decades old paint that was lead based when applied, and needs to be scraped/sanded off.... I see, said the blind man...
No wonder "hired" painting is so expensive, they've made chemists out of basic cheap "paint slinging laborers"....Is this law Federal, or state, or both?
Ray

 

[shawngr]

Every 5 of the 10 painters I 've ever dealt with were either on drugs or a drunk:drunk.:rant:

 

[500bbc]

Better than that, $12 ABOVE union scale is what I read...



I see. Like maybe come across decades old paint that was lead based when applied, and needs to be scraped/sanded off.... I see, said the blind man...
No wonder "hired" painting is so expensive, they've made chemists out of basic cheap "paint slinging laborers"....Is this law Federal, or state, or both?
Ray

Sanding? Lead paint SANDING?????

You're FIRED and will be beaten mercilessly by hippies.

Filthy Earth RAPIST!!

Fed Ray, how much ya think this costs the country in schooling and execution?:swear

 

[Flyinbowtie]

Better than that, $12 ABOVE union scale is what I read...


I read that too, and understood it.
And my son will work for 12 bucks an hour.

 

[Letzgo]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that while I would be an excellent hire, with serious attention to detail, imminently trainable, experienced in finish work and with a hard work ethic... I have no idea about what a lead law is.

You may consider reviewing your hiring interview, and setting it up for success and not failure. Lead laws can be taught. I would be far more concerned with regard to experience, transportation, history of being on time, no warrants... that kind of stuff.

I would imagine that unless you are hiring a lead remediation expert to help your business, you might be asking the wrong first question.

Also, you may want to have "must have experience with lead laws, and can speak to them with authority" as part of your ad.

Just a thought...

What you are syaing makes sense except a painter that says "what lead laws" is like a truck driver asking where the brakes are. I wouldn't want him any where near my job as i would have to assume he has zero experience at that point.

 

[Slow What]

The "lead laws" referenced are a new Federal EPA business restriction.

Doesn't matter that lead paint has been banned for fifty years, all principles and employees that may, in any way shape or form, encounter lead must attend a class for their certification.


Just basic bureaucratic bullshit but every painter in the country should know this by now.

not so......only need one guy (supervisor..ect.) on the job to have taken the coarse...but he better be there if someone shows up...and you would be suprised at how many so called painting contractors out there have know clue about the new laws or just don't care

 

[Letzgo]

From what I understand you can have labors that are not certified as long as contractor is certified. Is that true yellowboat?

 

[Letzgo]

I also believe you only have to be certified if working on a house that is built in 78 or older. Newer homes dont apply.

 

[OCMerrill]

not so......only need one guy (supervisor..ect.) on the job to have taken the coarse...but he better be there if someone shows up...and you would be suprised at how many so called painting contractors out there have know clue about the new laws or just don't care

Its currently not enforced in so Cal but that the element of a big massive fine exists so we all ran out and did it, right? LOL Up where Yellowboat lives in Sac I have heard horror stories.

Its not limited to painters. It's based on Repair/renovation. Basically if you touch it, you better know what your touching. Even a plumber.

 

[OCMerrill]

From what I understand you can have labors that are not certified as long as contractor is certified. Is that true yellowboat?

This is true. But the cert holder had to be there to start the job and has to be available if called to return.

 

[maxwedge]

I think it's hilarious and sad that people who might work with old paint have to take a class and be certified, meanwhile people who breath pure lead dust (dross) in the electronics manufacturing industry where I used to work need no EPA training whatsoever.

 

[Slow What]

your right it's not just painters....in san diego county it's not that big a deal right now....but if your working within san diego city limits look out...they already have a staff that goes out looking for violators.

 

[OCMerrill]

The EPA currently does not recognize ANY test kit as being ok to use.

Only way is to send a piece to a lab. Like thats gonna happen.

We remediate mold so I already own HEPA vacs and such. We just make sure its all available.

 

[Yellowboat]

Its currently not enforced in so Cal but that the element of a big massive fine exists so we all ran out and did it, right? LOL Up where Yellowboat lives in Sac I have heard horror stories.

Its not limited to painters. It's based on Repair/renovation. Basically if you touch it, you better know what your touching. Even a plumber.

Trust me its no joke up here, they are activly looking for people. Alteast once a week I'm asked by a inspector to see my certs. Guys getting shut down left and right up here. I even had them mic out my plastic to make sure it was 6 mil or thicker.

Remember I specialize in 100+ year old homes. you can't even look at them with out dealing with lead.


having the workmens or foremens cert is a big plus, but not required, what is required is having some basic idea of what is and is not legal. 95% of the stuff that EVERY painter did is now illegal. A perfect example is power washing. While still legal, you MUST contain 100% of the water, which there is no way to do. burning or using a heat gun is also out. The only real effective way to do any type of scraping/striping is jasco... lol way to save the planet.

 

[Yellowboat]

The EPA currently does not recognize ANY test kit as being ok to use.

Only way is to send a piece to a lab. Like thats gonna happen.

We remediate mold so I already own HEPA vacs and such. We just make sure its all available.

Do you also know that if you cert a property as lead free, you can never legally work on it. yeah, thats the type of lic I want


There are alot of other BS parts to this law. The best is secure storage. You must store it in a secure location... under the law a secure location is where ever the home owner says is secure.

 

[Moneypit]

Do you also know that if you cert a property as lead free, you can never legally work on it. yeah, thats the type of lic I want


There are alot of other BS parts to this law. The best is secure storage. You must store it in a secure location... under the law a secure location is where ever the home owner says is secure.

Can you explain that one? If it's certified as LEAD FREE, you can never work on it? Why not?....
Ray

 

[Yellowboat]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that while I would be an excellent hire, with serious attention to detail, imminently trainable, experienced in finish work and with a hard work ethic... I have no idea about what a lead law is.

You may consider reviewing your hiring interview, and setting it up for success and not failure. Lead laws can be taught. I would be far more concerned with regard to experience, transportation, history of being on time, no warrants... that kind of stuff.

I would imagine that unless you are hiring a lead remediation expert to help your business, you might be asking the wrong first question.

Also, you may want to have "must have experience with lead laws, and can speak to them with authority" as part of your ad.

Just a thought...

so would you hire a operator for a mission that didn't have triger control and was having ND all the time?

Thats pretty much what its like with painters and lead laws.

 

[Yellowboat]

Can you explain that one? If it's certified as LEAD FREE, you can never work on it? Why not?....
Ray

there are 3 classes of the certs.

1 worker

2 designer(what I have, think formen/plan of attack guy/ can legally work and watch up to 5 uncertifed guys)
3 lead tester.


If you test and cert a building as lead free, you or the company you work for can legally never work on that property. One of those things where they were trying to stop people from cheating and saying stuff was lead free when it wasn't.

 

[454Rocket]

A perfect example is power washing. While still legal, you MUST contain 100% of the water, which there is no way to do. burning or using a heat gun is also out. The only real effective way is to hire a Mexican... lol way to save the planet.

That's what I thought No habla inspector...

Amazing what the government can do to an honest trade.

 

[whiteworks]

Tyler, what sort of a price increase to the consumer are you seeing in order to comply with all the rules?

 

[Yellowboat]

small stuff is 100-300% bigger stuff 100-1000%

Just bid a complete strip and repaint at 63k, they didn't even bat a eye. they got bids from the low 50s to 80k. Last year it would have been about 25k, every thing would have been heated and scraped. Rough sawn is a bitch. about 90% of the house is going to be striped chemical. If it was smooth, there are several mechaincal means that work great and are certifed for lead removal if you are using a hepa vac for dust collection. you just can't use them on rough surfaces.


about half the people get it, the others ask why so high. my bid to contract rate is still about 95%.

 

[EpicOne]

Can you explain that one? If it's certified as LEAD FREE, you can never work on it? Why not?....
Ray

Think of it like a Smog Only test station. Keeps the testers honest.

 

[500bbc]

not so......only need one guy (supervisor..ect.) on the job to have taken the coarse...but he better be there if someone shows up...and you would be suprised at how many so called painting contractors out there have know clue about the new laws or just don't care

You are correct sir, please excuse my embellishment for effect.

 

[OCMerrill]

there are 3 classes of the certs.

1 worker

2 designer(what I have, think formen/plan of attack guy/ can legally work and watch up to 5 uncertifed guys)
3 lead tester.


If you test and cert a building as lead free, you or the company you work for can legally never work on that property. One of those things where they were trying to stop people from cheating and saying stuff was lead free when it wasn't.

YES you cannot be the "worker" guy and the "its OK" guy. One or the other. The Feds want checks and balances because they currently excel in that arena. :grumble:

 

[Joker]

So I've been doing interviews this morning, I'm about half way done.

I swear about of the 1/3 of the guys blew the 1st question very badly.
about half of those were like "what lead laws?" :grumble:

WTF, you would think you could pull in some good talent when you are offering about $12/hour more then union scale. I've yet to have anyone even make it to the skills test.

:swear

I thought you were getting out of the business?

 

[Froggystyle]

What you are syaing makes sense except a painter that says "what lead laws" is like a truck driver asking where the brakes are. I wouldn't want him any where near my job as i would have to assume he has zero experience at that point.

I have worked as a finish paint laborer for a window installation company, I have painted my own house and worked part time for a paint company that did nothing but high end stuff. I have never encountered, nor been asked to encounter a lead law, or explain it.

I also have owned a boat company, and jumped through every single EPA/OSHA/AQMD hoop possible to jump through...

Like I am saying... I would be a good choice, and absolutely the opposite of zero experience. Perhaps review the idea that this is a prerequisite for good labor.

 

[Froggystyle]

so would you hire a operator for a mission that didn't have triger control and was having ND all the time?

Thats pretty much what its like with painters and lead laws.

Every single SEAL is hired without any experience, trigger control and would have AD's all the time if they weren't trained.

That at one time I was inexperienced is irrelevant. Sounds like you have a $185 problem between you and getting some new labor. I would offer to split the cost of the course with them, or take it out of the first four paychecks and see how it works out.

 

[Yellowboat]

I have worked as a finish paint laborer for a window installation company, I have painted my own house and worked part time for a paint company that did nothing but high end stuff. I have never encountered, nor been asked to encounter a lead law, or explain it.

I also have owned a boat company, and jumped through every single EPA/OSHA/AQMD hoop possible to jump through...

Like I am saying... I would be a good choice, and absolutely the opposite of zero experience. Perhaps review the idea that this is a prerequisite for good labor.

The new federal guidlines came down 10/1/10. I'm looking for skilled labor, not just labor. BTW there have been lead removal laws in CA for about 25 years, only they were no where neat as strick as the federal laws that are currently being enforced.


There is no way some one working as a painter in CA in the last year and a half has not heard about the lead laws. Every single paint store had signs plastered every where about the new laws coming into effect and for cert classes. The contractors board sent out several ciruclars about it.

There is just no way some one actually working as a painter would not atleast know that there were lead laws. Not knowing the details is one thing, but not even knowing they are out there is a joke. You either were not paying attention( detail is every thing in this line of work) or not working as a painter. Take you pick, both DQ you.


If I found some one that was a good painter, and has some basic idea about the lead laws, I'd enroll him in the classes, I just have not even found that.


I got 267 apps, 36 of 43 interviews done, none have made it to the skills test. 23 didn't even make it past the 1st question. of the 23, 18 didn't even know about the lead laws.


maybe my standards are too high, but when you are offering a job at $35/hour, which is almost double the going rate and ~$12/hour more then union scale, you have to have some standards.

3 trade knowlege questions .

1 If you are scraping a house that was built before 1978, what should you do to collect the old paint?

2 How much square footage should you get out of a gallon of latex paint.

3 What happens when you box a acrylic base with a urethane base paint?( not a real important question, but it will tell me if they are staying up to date on modern primers/paints)


Anyone working as a painter in CA, should now atleast the 1st 2, if they are on thier game and on top of the way products are changing, they should know the 3rd.

 

[GRADS2009]

3 trade knowlege questions .

1 If you are scraping a house that was built before 1978, what should you do to collect the old paint?

2 How much square footage should you get out of a gallon of latex paint.

3 What happens when you box a acrylic base with a urethane base paint
.

1. Wash it down the street storm drain.

2. Depends on how much crank I do that day.

3. Add ice for a good buzz.


Am I hired?

 

[Yellowboat]

1. Wash it down the street storm drain.

2. Depends on how much crank I do that day.

3. Add ice for a good buzz.


Am I hired?

yeah, but your starting pay is RDP mods pay. I expect 60 hours a week out of you.

 

[MMD]

The "lead laws" referenced are a new Federal EPA business restriction.

Doesn't matter that lead paint has been banned for fifty years, all principles and employees that may, in any way shape or form, encounter lead must attend a class for their certification.


Just basic bureaucratic bullshit but every painter in the country should know this by now.

It's not the Federal EPA it's Obama's EPA and just another reason that companies aren't surviving :grumble:

 

[Moneypit]

there are 3 classes of the certs.

1 worker

2 designer(what I have, think formen/plan of attack guy/ can legally work and watch up to 5 uncertifed guys)
3 lead tester.


If you test and cert a building as lead free, you or the company you work for can legally never work on that property. One of those things where they were trying to stop people from cheating and saying stuff was lead free when it wasn't.

Thank you, makes sense... Weeding out the cheaters. Gee, if we could just have someone like you interviewing the White House staff, ALL of them...Top to bottom...
Ray

 

[Froggystyle]

1 If you are scraping a house that was built before 1978, what should you do to collect the old paint?

Whatever method you tell me to...

2 How much square footage should you get out of a gallon of latex paint.

Read the label for coverage information, or ask the dealer. All paint is different, all surfaces you are covering have different requirements.

3 What happens when you box a acrylic base with a urethane base paint?( not a real important question, but it will tell me if they are staying up to date on modern primers/paints)

I would ask the rep.

Anyone working as a painter in CA, should now atleast the 1st 2, if they are on thier game and on top of the way products are changing, they should know the 3rd.

Maybe... but you are the one who has conducted 40+ interviews with no solid leads... I am just suggesting that you could give me the tools to answer these in about 30 minutes, and be on your way.

Perhaps drop the hourly rate until someone proves that they are self-motivated and competent. Once they have checked off the appropriate boxes, show them where this job can take them within 2 years with advancement and improvements in pay.

Sounds like you are offering $12 too much per hour for the existing workforce.