Issue with city of norco

[nrbr]

View attachment 821926 This post went up yesterday. Bits of good information, maybe reach out to Jim. He said using the right engineer helps. View attachment 821929 View attachment 821928 This house just sold for 100k + more than it should have. Main reason was the large shop. New owner plans on using it to do body work, and get rid of the building he leases in corona. Our shop is grandfathered in, just like the neighbors barn View attachment 821927 (with plumbing and electrical). Our shop is good size, and I’ll just rebuild and add on as I want. Good luck, hopefully you get what ya want without too many headaches. Norco is an awesome place to live.

I saw Jim's post and he agreed to answer any questions for me! Sounds like I'll have someone that builds a lot in town draw and engineer it for me as been said here already

 

[Harry Sachz]

I saw Jim's post and he agreed to answer any questions for me! Sounds like I'll have someone that builds a lot in town draw and engineer it for me as been said here already

Good deal. He’s the house directly behind me so we were talking on Sunday. He’s also a boater and huge off road guy. Has some really cool toys.

 

[Harry Sachz]

This is looking at it from in front of my shop. He also did the balcony his wife is standing on a few months back

 

[Thunderhead1]

There is a big ass garage/shop that just went up on Vine and bluff and i noticed it had a breezeway from the house.

Yes... That's how it was done.... The Breezway made it an addition instead of a shop... Has power and plumbing.

 

[cabennett82]

8 months just to get through permitting....such a joke!
Is there any pictures of the breezeway? Any specs on the building? Sqft? Eave Height? Setbacks? Overall building height? etc?

I think I am going to go to the City Council meeting tonight at 7pm. Not planning on saying anything just yet, but eventually will speak out.

 

[nrbr]

8 months just to get through permitting....such a joke!
Is there any pictures of the breezeway? Any specs on the building? Sqft? Eave Height? Setbacks? Overall building height? etc?

I think I am going to go to the City Council meeting tonight at 7pm. Not planning on saying anything just yet, but eventually will speak out.

We all spoke like crazy when they enacted the new rules. Made zero difference. They did make variance seem like no big deal if property didnt have horses anyways or didnt bother neighbors. They forgot to mention it was 3000$ per variance non refundable .They added the 20' setback on any building over 16' high on whichever property line parallels ridge line behind closed doors afterwards. My apologies for the run on sentence lol. Seems in my case itd be easier for me to expand the shit outta existing garage then build a nicer looking one in backyard...

 

[Harry Sachz]

Jim had his crew working into the dark yesterday. They got the trusses up. Higher than I was thinking, but makes for a really nice garage. He thought about going Rv height, but said he’s just going to go with one of those metal covers like the neighbor has. Curious on what the height actually is. I know he said they would give me a hard time about going any higher.

 

[cabennett82]

Does anyone know what can actually happen if you don't permit a garage structure?
I understand that they can tell you to take it down, charge you a fine, etc, but how do they actually do that? How can they force you to tear something down on your property? I don't think they can. If you have a conventional loan, they won't be able to get the bank to give you a hard time. How can they force you to pay a fine? Do they get police involved? Do they mess with your property taxes?
I know you have to disclose an non-permitted building when selling, which is completely fine. I am sure the value of the house will be just fine and the new owner won't care about permits if its a nicely built garage.

I am just thinking, why spend $5000 to $6000 on permits and waste months of time.
Take tons of pictures, build everything to code, do it all legit.
In this case, is it better to beg for forgiveness then ask for permission?

 

[Wheeler]

I am just thinking, why spend $5000 to $6000 on permits and waste months of time.
Take tons of pictures, build everything to code, do it all legit.
In this case, is it better to beg for forgiveness then ask for permission?

County wants the property taxes on the improvement. Either way you choose to go, you still loose.

 

[Bobby V]

Does anyone know what can actually happen if you don't permit a garage structure?
I understand that they can tell you to take it down, charge you a fine, etc, but how do they actually do that? How can they force you to tear something down on your property? I don't think they can. If you have a conventional loan, they won't be able to get the bank to give you a hard time. How can they force you to pay a fine? Do they get police involved? Do they mess with your property taxes?
I know you have to disclose an non-permitted building when selling, which is completely fine. I am sure the value of the house will be just fine and the new owner won't care about permits if its a nicely built garage.

I am just thinking, why spend $5000 to $6000 on permits and waste months of time.
Take tons of pictures, build everything to code, do it all legit.
In this case, is it better to beg for forgiveness then ask for permission?

Besides fines, past taxes and permit fees. they maybe able to put a lien on your home if you don't pay.

There are four primary types of voluntary and involuntary liens seen frequently in real estate: mortgage liens, mechanics liens, tax liens, and judgment liens.

 

[C-2]

They could open a code violation case against you. Then, if you still refuse to bring the structure to code, they could file a nuisance action against you which could also be criminal in nature if your intent was to avoid building codes. Criminal nuisance actions filed by the City Attorney/prosecutor carry daily penalties and can end with a condemnation order. Ultimately too, the homeowner pays for the prosecution fees.

Here is a similar story: https://pagesix.com/2019/11/24/gigi-and-bellas-dad-mohamed-hadid-ordered-to-tear-down-mega-mansion/

Also, your property would be flagged in escrow for an non-permitted structure, which could prevent a new buyer from obtaining a loan for the purchase.

It's one thing to turn a patio into an non-permitted room without pulling a permit, first. Completely different animal if you intentionally ignore building code and and build a structure anyways. I know Riverside County uses the GIS satellite system to flag new structures - I had a code guy ask me about large water troughs after being flagged on the system (they didn't call me, I called them on another question and he asked about it "since he had me on the phone")

Research nuisance and abatement as opposed to building permit violations, that's a slippery slope for sure.

 

[cabennett82]

They could open a code violation case against you. Then, if you still refuse to bring the structure to code, they could file a nuisance action against you which could also be criminal in nature if your intent was to avoid building codes. Criminal nuisance actions filed by the City Attorney/prosecutor carry daily penalties and can end with a condemnation order. Ultimately too, the homeowner pays for the prosecution fees.

Here is a similar story: https://pagesix.com/2019/11/24/gigi-and-bellas-dad-mohamed-hadid-ordered-to-tear-down-mega-mansion/

Also, your property would be flagged in escrow for an non-permitted structure, which could prevent a new buyer from obtaining a loan for the purchase.

It's one thing to turn a patio into an non-permitted room without pulling a permit, first. Completely different animal if you intentionally ignore building code and and build a structure anyways. I know Riverside County uses the GIS satellite system to flag new structures - I had a code guy ask me about large water troughs after being flagged on the system (they didn't call me, I called them on another question and he asked about it "since he had me on the phone")

Research nuisance and abatement as opposed to building permit violations, that's a slippery slope for sure.

Thanks for the info. Yeah I don't want to go down this path, I was just curious how it all worked. I called code enforcement and they basically told me the same thing. If the daily penalties get over a certain point, they can put a lien on your property and if it continues, they can eventually take possession of your property if the amount you owe reaches your home value. And yes, you won't be able to sell until the lien is removed.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

I doubt Norco will jump on the bandwagon, but as you may already know, many cities are easing building codes to deal with the ‘‘housing crisis.” ADU’s and granny flats are all the rage.

Is there any possibility of building an ADU and then later converting it to a shop?

The problem with Norco, as you have seen, is there is a group of fanatics who force their own ideals upon the whole city. Neighbors may be cool, but those roaming Nazi’s are not.

I heard this has become a state issue and not necessarily just a city item. I have heard that the state ADU laws supersede any city or even HOA limitations. If it was me, I would look into that option and say the additional footage is for the parking garage of the ADU. I have an amazing architect that knows that county really well and could probably push anything you want through.

 

[Lucky Larry]

Does anyone know what can actually happen if you don't permit a garage structure?
I understand that they can tell you to take it down, charge you a fine, etc, but how do they actually do that? How can they force you to tear something down on your property? I don't think they can. If you have a conventional loan, they won't be able to get the bank to give you a hard time. How can they force you to pay a fine? Do they get police involved? Do they mess with your property taxes?
I know you have to disclose an non-permitted building when selling, which is completely fine. I am sure the value of the house will be just fine and the new owner won't care about permits if its a nicely built garage.

I am just thinking, why spend $5000 to $6000 on permits and waste months of time.
Take tons of pictures, build everything to code, do it all legit.
In this case, is it better to beg for forgiveness then ask for permission?

In 1996 I built a 1,000 sq. ft. garage for my boats. Built to code but without a permit because I wasn’t ever planning to move. New homes went in up the hill & traffic got bad so we sold in 2000. First thing buyers asked was “is it permitted?” Of course in those 4 years the codes had changed and I had to update to current codes. Bigger anchor bolts, few new glu-lam beams, had to dig down to expose the footings. Cost me $5,000 more for permit and upgrades than if I’d done in right in 1996.

You gotta pay the piper, either now or later. I always advise people to do it right, do it now and be done with it.

 

[Yellowboat]

I remember a few battles with Norco for a 14x40 boat shed, the inspector at the time was a cock, not sure if he is still there.

They never leave, they just get promoted/ moved. I cant speak for the city of norco, but the city of sacramento had an inspector cost them 6 million for failure to inspect a rerood on a comm'l building. They had roofed over the scuppers. Amy way long story short 4 years after the whole debacle he became the lead plumbing inspector for the city.

I could talk for hours about inspectors. Not just in the sacrsmento area, but in a dozens or so states. Its almost better if they dont get out of the truck/ never show.

 

[cabennett82]

Sharing this information if anyone is interested:
They are having a seminar in Corona to educate the public on ADU rules/regulations in California based on the new ADU bills that recently passed. It is on January 9th. $22 for 4.5 hours and includes lunch. Looks like they have some good information to share for all of us to learn.
Although it doesn't apply directly to garages/workshops, they told me they will have a lawyer attending that will be able to answer any questions and review Norco's ordinance.
https://adu-professionals.com/
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/adu-professionals-conference-tickets-83755556123

 

[havasujeeper]

From what I understand, this is just a ploy to get your property reassessed, so you will be forced to pay more property taxes. Caviot Emptor.

 

[wzuber]

did anybody make it to that ADU seminar? how was it?

 

[cabennett82]

I went. It was not as informative as I would have hoped but did have some good information. Of course it was for rental units on your property but I was more interested in a living are with attached garage.
Room full of realtors and general contractors.
Multiple guest speakers but basically walking through how to build an ADU. Speakers included an Architect, Loan officers, property assessor, builders of custom ADU's and a lawyer.

The lawyer to me was who I wanted to talk to. She stated that the city of Norco and Jurupa Valley are fighting tooth and nail against the ADU law and they will try to turn you down at the counter, but if you push through, supposedly it can pass.
I was trying to think creative. The ADU Bill states that the city cannot enforce any parking requirements. They did this so that the city does not require you to replace parking when you turn a garage into an ADU. I am thinking the opposite, why cant you build a 2000sqft garage attached to your new ADU?? Then you dont have to deal with setbacks, height, sqft or animal keeping.

 

[wzuber]

I went. It was not as informative as I would have hoped but did have some good information. Of course it was for rental units on your property but I was more interested in a living are with attached garage.
Room full of realtors and general contractors.
Multiple guest speakers but basically walking through how to build an ADU. Speakers included an Architect, Loan officers, property assessor, builders of custom ADU's and a lawyer.

The lawyer to me was who I wanted to talk to. She stated that the city of Norco and Jurupa Valley are fighting tooth and nail against the ADU law and they will try to turn you down at the counter, but if you push through, supposedly it can pass.
I was trying to think creative. The ADU Bill states that the city cannot enforce any parking requirements. They did this so that the city does not require you to replace parking when you turn a garage into an ADU. I am thinking the opposite, why cant you build a 2000sqft garage attached to your new ADU?? Then you dont have to deal with setbacks, height, sqft or animal keeping.

Interesting point.
So, say you push this ADU law thru the city. How much blow back do you anticipate from the bldg. Dept. during the bud process. Seems they could (would?) make the project pretty difficult if they want to. Would it be worth it?
Who was the architect and lawyer present? Did u get their contact info.?

 

[dribble]

Loomis is not in scarmento county, its in very red placer county . Its also been the boonies until just recently.

My property in Loomis was on the road leading to Sterling Point, Monte Sereno and Clos Du Lac. The houses there are in the 1.5 - 2.5 million range. I also built an un-permitted barn when I lived in Sacramento County. I actually poured the stem-wall and was going to get a permit when I found out I was over the setback line by ten feet so I just built it anyway with no permit. It’s easy if you’re in the right community and have the right neighbors. On an unrelated note, it was far easier to get a CCW in Sacramento County then it was in Placer.

 

[cabennett82]

Bringing this back from the dead. Years later and still fighting with the city.
Is there anyone that lives in Norco willing to speak up and fight this ordinance with City Council?
They have a meeting coming up to review it on 9/2/21 and I would like to make a presence.

 

[Mandelon]

How damn frustrating. Freaking beaurocrats.