In More Cigarette News. PBC Out BTM In

[rivrrts429]

I completely agree with everything you said. In hindsight, I wonder if Braver regrets selling to them now? Or is it cash out and move on with life? It would be hard for me to watch my company be handled like this in such a short time.

Often times in business purchase deals there’s retention money held. Like 10% of the agreed sale price is held for two or three years so that all parties act in good faith after sale. Prior ownership will stay on in some capacity as well to watch costs and ensure they complete the original terms of the sale contract.

It’s an interesting business model the new ownership is attempting and one that the old ownership has to be voicing concerns about if he’s to capture his retention money once the terms are met.

What goes on behind closed doors is often times very different than what we perceive but it does appear to be a huge pendulum swing from the prior business if you believe what we read.

 

[Tank]

Often times in business purchase deals there’s retention money held. Like 10% of the agreed sale price is held for two or three years so that all parties act in good faith after sale. Prior ownership will stay on in some capacity as well to watch costs and ensure they complete the original terms of the sale contract.

It’s an interesting business model the new ownership is attempting and one that the old ownership has to be voicing concerns about if he’s to capture his retention money once the terms are met.

What goes on behind closed doors is often times very different than what we perceive but it does appear to be a huge pendulum swing from the prior business if you believe what we read.

While I don’t know if that’s the exact deal. I can say braver isn’t 100% with out some interest (financially in an indirect form) in the company still. He may sitting back watching and waiting. He may pull the move aronow was famous for. Sell to someone that fucks it up. Then buys it back at a major reduced price. Aronow did this with a couple of his boat company’s.

Then again. I hear he’s enjoying retirement.

 

[Bowtiepower00]

IMO, kid is an idiot, and in the early stages of running the company into the ground. I would bring back a modern bullet and mystique, and develop a line of CCs. No reason to be doing skis and overpriced clothing. And fucking over reputable dealers is just bad business. Also no reason to chase the cat market as so many others make such great I/O and OB cats. A couple of idiots with blowovers or wrecks and you’re in a PR nightmare. Cig has always been the prestigious big V company to me. Maybe not the fastest, but always a brand with superior name recognition and prestige. A modern stepped Cafe would have a line of buyers.

 

[Roosky01]

I'm seriously questioning some of the decision making going on. It's very erratic. The brand was ALREADY an iconic upper echelon brand. They sold more boats in the 1-3 mil range over seas to royalty and ultra rich Europeans than they did in the US. On one hand they seemingly want to saturate the market with shit like a sea doo and a yacht and on the other they want to charge ridiculous prices for hats and shirts that will 100% turn the majority of the market off. Not to mention they pumped this clothing release up like it was gonna be some HUGE deal. The layout, articles, models, etc look identical to what previous owner Braver already had. Except that Braver had a much larger catalog of items at 1/3 the price. It's all just silly. I'm really trying hard not to be negative but it keeps being more and more difficult not to be. Between the Doug Wright debacle and announcing they bought the company when they actually only had a letter of intent that eventually fell through, to making outlandish claims of increased sales, to the ill handled manner in which they dumped Performance Boat Center for Big Thunder Marine (and I heard the behind the scenes reasons for it and there were some valid points for the separation but the manner in which it was done was not exactly classy), there's been some seriously eye brow raising moves.

They don't want the dudes with beer bellies that drink beer representing their brand. I feel the Cigarette brand is destined to be the brand for peeps that wear no undies under their sheets....with a $100+MM bank account....

 

[Bowtiepower00]

They don't want the dudes with beer bellies that drink beer representing their brand. I feel the Cigarette brand is destined to be the brand for peeps that wear no undies under their sheets....with a $100+MM bank account....

Unfortunately, it’s guys like us who monitor RDP, tank, and Dan, who keep the brand alive. Only so many millionaires out there.

Edit: maybe not unfortunately, lol. Cig needs to remain attainable even as a dream to be successful.

 

[Roosky01]

Unfortunately, it’s guys like us who monitor RDP, tank, and Dan, who keep the brand alive. Only so many millionaires out there.

The young Padowan at Cigarette will figure that out soon enough...maybe.

 

[Bowtiepower00]

I think a limited run of modern TS 38 90mph guns with mild power and throwback graffics would be Badass.

 

[Bowtiepower00]

Make a 300-400k TS 30 modern bullet that a successful guy can afford and they will sell the hell outta em. Add some outboard power options and even a cc, and they will sell like hotcakes.

 

[Roosky01]

I think a limited run of modern TS 38 90mph guns with mild power and throwback graffics would be Badass.

And if they produced a run on the smaller 24' to 30' units it'd be a cash cow, IMO...

I'd love to restore/restomod an old Firefox or 28SS or similar to bring to LOTO. That'd be a dream of mine...

 

[Bowtiepower00]

And if they produced a run on the smaller 24' to 30' units it'd be a cash cow, IMO...

I'd love to restore/restomod an old Firefox or 28SS or similar to bring to LOTO. That'd be a dream of mine...

I agree, but much more money in the bigger botes. If he’s making/ marketing $90 tshirts he surely doesn’t want us mere peasants buying 250k sub 30’ botes.

 

[Roosky01]

I agree, but much more money in the bigger botes. If he’s making/ marketing $90 tshirts he surely doesn’t want us mere peasants buying 250k sub 30’ botes.

You can put out the smaller boats at a volume margin, I believe. How many of us fans can afford a $500k+ boat to keep the lights on at the factory?

Plus, I'd like to be able to tow it with my F-150!

 

[Bowtiepower00]

You can put out the smaller boats at a volume margin, I believe. How many of us fans can afford a $500k+ boat to keep the lights on at the factory?

Plus, I'd like to be able to tow it with my F-150!

For sure. But new cigs aren’t for us. 20 year old ones are. Plenty of other mid level options for the typical RDP crowd.

 

[Apex svt]

I'm seriously questioning some of the decision making going on. It's very erratic. The brand was ALREADY an iconic upper echelon brand. They sold more boats in the 1-3 mil range over seas to royalty and ultra rich Europeans than they did in the US. On one hand they seemingly want to saturate the market with shit like a sea doo and a yacht and on the other they want to charge ridiculous prices for hats and shirts that will 100% turn the majority of the market off. Not to mention they pumped this clothing release up like it was gonna be some HUGE deal. The layout, articles, models, etc look identical to what previous owner Braver already had. Except that Braver had a much larger catalog of items at 1/3 the price. It's all just silly. I'm really trying hard not to be negative but it keeps being more and more difficult not to be. Between the Doug Wright debacle and announcing they bought the company when they actually only had a letter of intent that eventually fell through, to making outlandish claims of increased sales, to the ill handled manner in which they dumped Performance Boat Center for Big Thunder Marine (and I heard the behind the scenes reasons for it and there were some valid points for the separation but the manner in which it was done was not exactly classy), there's been some seriously eye brow raising moves.

Was told that PBC had their shot to remain the authorized Cig dealer at the lake but declined due to unreasonable purchase agreements under new management.

Something like full purchase price two years in advance with a very limited number of boats per year. A very hard sale to potential buyers.

They will still be hosting a “PBC rendezvous” each year. Bring your cigarette lol. I’d find it hilarious if all the Cig owners continued to support that run.

 

[Tank]

IMO, kid is an idiot, and in the early stages of running the company into the ground. I would bring back a modern bullet and mystique, and develop a line of CCs. No reason to be doing skis and overpriced clothing. And fucking over reputable dealers is just bad business. Also no reason to chase the cat market as so many others make such great I/O and OB cats. A couple of idiots with blowovers or wrecks and you’re in a PR nightmare. Cig has always been the prestigious big V company to me. Maybe not the fastest, but always a brand with superior name recognition and prestige. A modern stepped Cafe would have a line of buyers.

Under Braver Cigarette introduced the 30' Mystique. Think it started at under 200k. I remember because I could've picked one up for 150k. The problem with making smaller boats is that the production cost is too close to a larger boat. All the cost is pretty much from the wind visor back in any boat. Everything out front is just more glass, kevlar, resin, etc. and cabin vinyl. The 30 didn't make sense when they were selling 800k boats that only cost a little bit more to build. Same thing with the Gladiator. The production cost to cap the deck and the shorter length didn't make sense financially. People always say, they should build smaller boats but it just doesn't work.

 

[Tank]

They don't want the dudes with beer bellies that drink beer representing their brand. I feel the Cigarette brand is destined to be the brand for peeps that wear no undies under their sheets....with a $100+MM bank account....

Already is. Ruiz doesn't need to re-brand. Princes, kings, million and billionaires are already their target market. Unfortunately it appears new owners are saturating the market which takes away from the prestige of the brand in my opinion.

For sure. But new cigs aren’t for us. 20 year old ones are. Plenty of other mid level options for the typical RDP crowd.

Cigarette has been building boats for over 50 years. There's more middle class Cig owners out there than there are millionaire owners. dude can't forget his base of core owners. It's that group that is the most passionate about ownership. The reason I keep buying Cigarettes and don't have some lake hot rod or cat is because the dominate big water and we boat in the ocean. If I only boated in the lake, I most likely wouldn't have a Cig. Well, maybe I'd have a gladiator and a pontoon. But I wouldn't have a big heavy resin bucket that's made for punishing big swell. For me, it's a good family boat that works well at the lake and works well in the ocean. I can boat any body of water (that's big enough) and not worry about getting home safely and comfortably. Iv'e been in some STUPID rough ocean water that I did NOT want to be in. Made it home. Little wet, but made it back. I've never, in 25 years been on havasu and worried about running because it was too windy or rough.

 

[Tank]

Was told that PBC had their shot to remain the authorized Cig dealer at the lake but declined due to unreasonable purchase agreements under new management.

Something like full purchase price two years in advance with a very limited number of boats per year. A very hard sale to potential buyers.

They will still be hosting a “PBC rendezvous” each year. Bring your cigarette lol. I’d find it hilarious if all the Cig owners continued to support that run.

I talked to people at Cig that gave a slightly different version of that line . Basically both sides had their responsibility in the split. I like what PBC does for it's customers (and those that haven't even bought boats from them like us). The Cigarette run is one of, if not thee most fun run we do every year. They do a great job at PBC. I've never dealt with Big Thunder directly but I've always heard good things. It's a shame on a selfish level that PBC wont be an authorized dealer anymore but then again they recently put out on social media a photo of them filling up a 46' Cigarette with fuel with the tag line "We will always sell cigarettes".Kind've a middle finger to Cig and a rally to their customers and supporters that own Cigs.

I'm interested to see how many people show up to the Cig run in June and how it goes. I know a lot of people still planning on going. Taylor and AJ are towing the CC out. We'll be there!!

 

[Tank]

Funny story. There’s a thread on OSO about the crazy prices of the new shirts and hats cig debuted. Someone said you can get a shirt for $30 and a hat for $30 from outerlimits. I made a comment that I’d have to call Dan (form outerlimits) and order some shit I can afford. I never called Dan but this showed up yesterday. Lol

Known Dan a long time and we always go back and forth cig vs OL (he and his pops even Owned one or two cigs in the past). So, humor is not lost on him

Pretty funny. I’ll wear proudly.

 

[sirbob]

This summer when I stopped into PBC while the cig event was going on. I needed to replace my tow strap on the trailer. I head into the building while the whole place was going off and a nice guy came out of the back when nobody else seemed to be working in that area. He asked how he could help me and took me upstairs to a guy and basically told him to get me what I needed.

15 min later this guy had taken off my old tow strap and installed a new much better strap while my truck and boat were parked along side the building. He charged me $15 and wouldn’t take any more!!

I’m pretty sure the first guy was an owner or something? But I’m very sure I’d do business with PBC any chance I could.

 

[Havoc Powesports]

My take on the new Cig ownersship. They came in thumping their chests strutting stuff and screwed a lot of deals they do over. PBC, DW, Key West 5 yr deal, then look at basketball. Now trying to do the offshore race as Luminsea in Miami. Wouldnt drop my boat into a race they put on no matter the money with the current track record of eff ups in the marine industry and courtesies they have done so far..

 

[RiverDave]

IMO, kid is an idiot, and in the early stages of running the company into the ground. I would bring back a modern bullet and mystique, and develop a line of CCs. No reason to be doing skis and overpriced clothing. And fucking over reputable dealers is just bad business. Also no reason to chase the cat market as so many others make such great I/O and OB cats. A couple of idiots with blowovers or wrecks and you’re in a PR nightmare. Cig has always been the prestigious big V company to me. Maybe not the fastest, but always a brand with superior name recognition and prestige. A modern stepped Cafe would have a line of buyers.

You have said a couple times to develop a CC.. but they have a whole line of CC’s? Or are you saying something more affordable?

 

[Bowtiepower00]

You have said a couple times to develop a CC.. but they have a whole line of CC’s? Or are you saying something more affordable?

Yeah, something along the lines of the cafe open they used to make.

 

[Tank]

Yeah, something along the lines of the cafe open they used to make.

They’re done trying to make entry level boats. More money in the bigger higher end boats.

Cheapest boat they sell is a basic 38’ top gun starts at half a mil

 

[Bowtiepower00]

They’re done trying to make entry level boats. More money in the bigger higher end boats.

Cheapest boat they sell is a basic 38’ top gun starts at half a mil

I understand that, but a man can dream. Lol

 

[Singleton]

Yeah, something along the lines of the cafe open they used to make.

Not going to occur. The profit margin is low on the entry level stuff.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

Still plenty of Cigs roaming around PBC..... This was yesterday.

 

[Backlash]

Is the word "Cigarette" really that difficult to type out? Asking for a friend.