I'm the A-hole non licensed A/C guy

[Flying_Lavey]

Company's can charge whatever, 100% on equipment is the norm off the top is it not? With hidden #'s could be 150% on replacement.lower on new build. $ 210 for 20 min work for $4 dollar part, hefty trip charges happening.

I can't speak for others, but knowing what we pay for equipment and seeing other people's quotes lately o. Here...... NOBODY is marking up equipment more than MAYBE 25% sometimes. I can also tell you over the past 4 years, a box of flex duct has gone through the roof. I'd be willing to best the overall average cost of the duct material itself has gone up 3 times over. Possibly more.

There is so much competition in this industry and everybody is selling the same equipment and materials, any one contractor can't come in multitudes higher or else he won't ever work.

 

[Riverbound]

Company's can charge whatever, 100% on equipment is the norm off the top is it not? With hidden #'s could be 150% on replacement.lower on new build. $ 210 for 20 min work for $4 dollar part, hefty trip charges happening.

we try and maintain 40% GM. on equipment…it’s very rare we do. service we shoot for 60% at the end of the day if we are making 17-20% profit. i’m a hero.

in general people have no clue what it costs to run a service business like ours in california.

 

[Riverbound]

Here in vegas id say the average is $250-$300

I know most of the people i know running companies in vegas are in the 5-600 range for a capacitor. although these guys are doing much more than just working in a cap and bouncing.

 

[Gramps]

I had my refrigerator fixed the other day. $150 for the service call and no charge for the part. the "start capacitator" on the compressor waw bad and the service guy had a spare that he gave me. He told me if he had to order the part is $180...........I looked it up online I can get it for about $15

 

[JL95]

I think my dad paid $500 or so for a cap change two weeks ago. He knew what it was but had to bite the bullet as it was getting to around 90* inside his house lol. I used to have my best friend that worked as a HVAC tech and man was that super valuable. He got my parents house converted to r134 along with two new condensers at cost plus a few hundred for his labor (6 years ago). Probably saved them $5K plus.

He was sales driven as well from the boss. I was told all about the profit margins on the jobs. My favorite HVAC techs are the ones that are actually Techs, not just some fat parts changer that needs to make a sale.

 

[grumpy88]

I had my refrigerator fixed the other day. $150 for the service call and no charge for the part. the "start capacitator" on the compressor waw bad and the service guy had a spare that he gave me. He told me if he had to order the part is $180...........I looked it up online I can get it for about $15

I had a similar incident with a GE ice maker . GE repair dude wanted over 500 dollars . I bought the factory part and replaced it for 130 in 10 minutes . I guess that's the 10 to 20 percent margin .

 

[DLow]

I had a similar incident with a GE ice maker . GE repair dude wanted over 500 dollars . I bought the factory part and replaced it for 130 in 10 minutes . I guess that's the 10 to 20 percent margin .

Well, there is a difference between profit margin and what is charged minus costs of parts. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t get that.

 

[Mandelon]

Nobody wants to get gouged, but having a shop, making payroll taxes, benefits, trucks, insurance, paying workers comp, vehicle maintenance, license, liability insurance, buying and replacing specialty tools and all that stuff sure ain't cheap.

 

[Riverbound]

Nobody wants to get gouged, but having a shop, making payroll taxes, benefits, trucks, insurance, paying workers comp, vehicle maintenance, license, liability insurance, buying and replacing specialty tools and all that stuff sure ain't cheap.

exactly. don’t forget advertising which is generally 10% of revenue.

it alway baffles me when I see people who obviously live well (second homes, boats, RVs; toys, etc..) complain about someone else making money. pretty sure they don’t work for free, but expect others to work for free.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I can't speak for others, but knowing what we pay for equipment and seeing other people's quotes lately o. Here...... NOBODY is marking up equipment more than MAYBE 25% sometimes. I can also tell you over the past 4 years, a box of flex duct has gone through the roof. I'd be willing to best the overall average cost of the duct material itself has gone up 3 times over. Possibly more.

There is so much competition in this industry and everybody is selling the same equipment and materials, any one contractor can't come in multitudes higher or else he won't ever work.

When I can get a shitty cap from Amazon for $25 and the AC guy charges me $100+ for it..

That is more than 25% markup.

I get that the parts house has it “today” or that the Chinese cap from the parts house is better than the Chinese cap from from Amazon

Ive had AC guys tell me to get line cover sets on Amazon because it is cheaper than they can get them. I chuckled and said can’t you guys order them from Amazon too?

 

[dribble]

This morning I’m picking up a capacitor from Grainger for my GF’s house that she’s putting on the market. It’s 17 bucks. The appliance store wanted 45 bucks, which I thought was too much money.

 

[185EZ]

OP..... there is not a chance in hell the tech cleaned all 8 coils and inspected operating conditions on all 4 systems in just over an hour. Depending on the access to the coils, that is about a 6 hour job and honestly, $700 is very fair for that work.
Going back and taking our capacitors..... and not putting anything back in...... that's just petty bullshit.

That got me thinking. 3 air handlers are in the garage and I pointed out to the tech that one was in the attic.
He would have had to move a motorcycle to get to the attic door and that didn't happen.
Now the question is whether they did any of the work they claimed

 

[Flying_Lavey]

When I can get a shitty cap from Amazon for $25 and the AC guy charges me $100+ for it..

That is more than 25% markup.

I get that the parts house has it “today” or that the Chinese cap from the parts house is better than the Chinese cap from from Amazon

Ive had AC guys tell me to get line cover sets on Amazon because it is cheaper than they can get them. I chuckled and said can’t you guys order them from Amazon too?

Materials are a totally different ball game than equipment. Specially parts materials that are needed now and small enough to have on a truck for immediate need.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

That got me thinking. 3 air handlers are in the garage and I pointed out to the tech that one was in the attic.
He would have had to move a motorcycle to get to the attic door and that didn't happen.
Now the question is whether they did any of the work they claimed

If one thing obviously isn't done that was said to have been, then I would absolutely doubt the truth on the entirety of the ticket.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Materials are a totally different ball game than equipment. Specially parts materials that are needed now and small enough to have on a truck for immediate need.

I understand that some things are just hard to get or have single sources, which is why I used a Cap as my example. it’s something on every truck and it is the repair AC guys love. It is a $300-500 repair that takes 20 mins to install a $15 part that the AC guys charge over $100 for

 

[185EZ]

If one thing obviously isn't done that was said to have been, then I would absolutely doubt the truth on the entirety of the ticket.

That was the final straw
I tried to reason with them.
Told them I knew a coil cleaning business to verify coils were cleaned.
And that the home should have been left the way they found it
I said the Registrar of Contractors will decide on both issues
Friend/owner immediately called and asked what it would take to make it right
He's putting caps back in
And done

 

[ChumpChange]

I think my dad paid $500 or so for a cap change two weeks ago. He knew what it was but had to bite the bullet as it was getting to around 90* inside his house lol. I used to have my best friend that worked as a HVAC tech and man was that super valuable. He got my parents house converted to r134 along with two new condensers at cost plus a few hundred for his labor (6 years ago). Probably saved them $5K plus.

He was sales driven as well from the boss. I was told all about the profit margins on the jobs. My favorite HVAC techs are the ones that are actually Techs, not just some fat parts changer that needs to make a sale.

Staying in a hotel for the night until Amazon delivered would have been cheaper.

 

[Cobalt232]

My parents just had a cap go bad on one of their units in Newport. The tech didn't have the correct one, so he put 2 together. He diagnosed, installed a new cap, checked pressures and changed their filters for $485.00. I thought that was fair. First repair ever on a 24 year old R-22 Carrier.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

Just for the record, the parts shops that a lot of contractors get their parts from charge more alone than Amazon and more can be 10 times the amount. In many cases the parts are of better quality, but that is up for discussion. Most people that need AC work done need the parts that day and are willing to pay the price not to have two nights of sweating it out.

On a side note, I worked for an AC contractor in Palm Desert when I was a kid. Those guys can kill it! Some are ethical and some aren't, but even 30 years ago my employer would submit an invoice for $500-700 for a service that took minutes.

Doing business with friends sucks. Once side or the other always feels a bit awkward. I wouldn't want to do business with a friend if he is having an employee come out though. I would want to do business with my friend that attends the work and explains the process.

 

[Rayson1971]

My brother in laws brother charged me 295 for a start cap. and unit test. Seemed right. Guess no friends and family discount. Now I wonder if I overplayed

 

[Riverbound]

had a buddy text me about this thread and asked me to be honest so here it is.

“”Why don't you just be honest with everyone about ac pricing. "We charge it because people will pay it, and I need to be able to have my buddies over for tomahawk steaks". Lol””

reality is we run a business not a charity. all of the costs of running said business plus what we need to make in profit determines our final price. the consumer ultimately makes the decision if we are not priced correctly. we are in over 4000 homes a month and network with countless contractors all
over the country we know where we need to be to not only remain in business but also to stay competitive.

 

[Badchoices03]

I know not AC related, but I have an acquaintance that owns his own plumbing business....he is his only employee but I have two friends that worked with him as helpers over the years...they both quit because they couldn't look into the eyes of an elderly customer who didn't know any better and charge them for things they didn't need as directed by the boss...meanwhile this dude and his family all drive nice cars, live on the water, have a vacation house in Havasu and Big Bear, multiple boats, kids race anything that has a motor...all from a single income business...

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

had a buddy text me about this thread and asked me to be honest so here it is.

“”Why don't you just be honest with everyone about ac pricing. "We charge it because people will pay it, and I need to be able to have my buddies over for tomahawk steaks". Lol””

reality is we run a business not a charity. all of the costs of running said business plus what we need to make in profit determines our final price. the consumer ultimately makes the decision if we are not priced correctly. we are in over 4000 homes a month and network with countless contractors all
over the country we know where we need to be to not only remain in business but also to stay competitive.

View attachment 1264738 View attachment 1264739 View attachment 1264740

If you had just said that in the beginning, we all would have agreed with you .

I have all the respect in the world for successful business, but when you start tap dancing “Woe is me we are lucky to make 10%” and every time I go to So Cal I see new Raptors with NexGen wraps on the freeways… I’m not crying for you and your 10% margins .

You charge what people will pay and the market will bear. That’s business.

 

[Riverbound]

If you had just said that in the beginning, we all would have agreed with you .

I have all the respect in the world for successful business, but when you start tap dancing “Woe is me we are lucky to make 10%” and every time I go to So Cal I see new Raptors with NexGen wraps on the freeways… I’m not crying for you and your 10% margins .

You charge what people will pay and the market will bear. That’s business.

i’m not sad with the 10% considering our top line…..but my pay is based on making that % number bigger than 10

no more raptors now that we are PE but glad i got my gen3 before that all happened.

 

[hallett21]

I know not AC related, but I have an acquaintance that owns his own plumbing business....he is his only employee but I have two friends that worked with him as helpers over the years...they both quit because they couldn't look into the eyes of an elderly customer who didn't know any better and charge them for things they didn't need as directed by the boss...meanwhile this dude and his family all drive nice cars, live on the water, have a vacation house in Havasu and Big Bear, multiple boats, kids race anything that has a motor...all from a single income business...

What are some examples of things not needed?

That always seems to be fine a line. For instance if a plumber/HVAC/electrician find something that may fail in a year or 2 is it unethical to replace the item? Sure it’s still working but maybe you’re saving the homeowner from a headache down the road?

Now making up problems etc is 100% unethical.

 

[PlumLoco]

About 8 years ago I had gotten quotes from 2 different HVAC in the area to replace the package unit on the roof. After deciding that they wanted way too much money for the unit itself, I had a buddy hook me up. He was in his last year before retiring and so didn't give a rip. He ordered it from a wholesaler in Moreno Valley and I went and picked it up from them. It took some doing to find someone who would install a brand new unit but I finally did. The machine was literally half the price of what I had been quoted from the local companies.
My buddy now lives in Oregon and his son is doing HVAC up there. I will give serious consideration to driving to Oregon to do it again as we are in a different house now. I think it would be worth the drive to save $4000. I'm retired, so I don't need much of an excuse to see some pretty country and save some money.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

i’m not sad with the 10% considering our top line…..but my pay is based on making that % number bigger than 10

no more raptors now that we are PE but glad i got my gen3 before that all happened.
View attachment 1264778

Excellent!

 

[lbhsbz]

I know not AC related, but I have an acquaintance that owns his own plumbing business....he is his only employee but I have two friends that worked with him as helpers over the years...they both quit because they couldn't look into the eyes of an elderly customer who didn't know any better and charge them for things they didn't need as directed by the boss...meanwhile this dude and his family all drive nice cars, live on the water, have a vacation house in Havasu and Big Bear, multiple boats, kids race anything that has a motor...all from a single income business...

Garbage disposals must have start and run caps now....lol

 

[monkeyswrench]

I've always made a living with either roofing, or mechanic work...
Pretty sure most AC guys are saints compared to some of those I've worked for and with.

Just last week, had a shop owner call and ask me to put an ecu in a Kubota. He said "we've changed everything else, this is all that's left"
He asked me because I'll work nights.
I swapped the ECU. Same issue. I called him up, and asked if he wanted me to fix it, or if his guys would handle it.
A few hours with an ohm meter, and a bad connection was found in the harness.
He still charged them for the ECU...

That bothers me. The whole thing could have been handled for labor only, no parts and just a few hours.

 

[1tonfun]

I've always made a living with either roofing, or mechanic work...
Pretty sure most AC guys are saints compared to some of those I've worked for and with.

Just last week, had a shop owner call and ask me to put an ecu in a Kubota. He said "we've changed everything else, this is all that's left"
He asked me because I'll work nights.
I swapped the ECU. Same issue. I called him up, and asked if he wanted me to fix it, or if his guys would handle it.
A few hours with an ohm meter, and a bad connection was found in the harness.
He still charged them for the ECU...

That bothers me. The whole thing could have been handled for labor only, no parts and just a few hours.

Thats the difference between a tech and a parts changer. Sounds like the shop doesn't have any qualified techs, just throw parts at it until it works.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I've always made a living with either roofing, or mechanic work...
Pretty sure most AC guys are saints compared to some of those I've worked for and with.

Just last week, had a shop owner call and ask me to put an ecu in a Kubota. He said "we've changed everything else, this is all that's left"
He asked me because I'll work nights.
I swapped the ECU. Same issue. I called him up, and asked if he wanted me to fix it, or if his guys would handle it.
A few hours with an ohm meter, and a bad connection was found in the harness.
He still charged them for the ECU...

That bothers me. The whole thing could have been handled for labor only, no parts and just a few hours.

Sorry can’t do it. “We don’t want that kind of liability”

 

[Havasu blue label]

Thats the difference between a tech and a parts changer. Sounds like the shop doesn't have any qualified techs, just throw parts at it until it works.

Yes sir we all could be a parts changer it’s commission first then they fill out the customer then just charged what ever

 

[Gelcoater]

About 8 years ago I had gotten quotes from 2 different HVAC in the area to replace the package unit on the roof. After deciding that they wanted way too much money for the unit itself, I had a buddy hook me up. He was in his last year before retiring and so didn't give a rip. He ordered it from a wholesaler in Moreno Valley and I went and picked it up from them. It took some doing to find someone who would install a brand new unit but I finally did. The machine was literally half the price of what I had been quoted from the local companies.
My buddy now lives in Oregon and his son is doing HVAC up there. I will give serious consideration to driving to Oregon to do it again as we are in a different house now. I think it would be worth the drive to save $4000. I'm retired, so I don't need much of an excuse to see some pretty country and save some money.

A buddy of mine that has either handled or told me what to do/replace just retired too.
It was nice being able to run to Corona and pick up a run cap for $13 and go slap it in vs the 5-$700 service call.
He moved to South Dakota, so I probably won’t be running up there for a discount
On the other hand he hooked me up with a good dude of my stuff fails again.
He found a leak we had been dealing with in about 2 minutes.
Fixed it, after hours. Cash, relatively reasonable considering he had already done a 9 hour day.
And?
He tolerated one of the Dobermans goosing his behind without drama

 

[grumpy88]

had a buddy text me about this thread and asked me to be honest so here it is.

“”Why don't you just be honest with everyone about ac pricing. "We charge it because people will pay it, and I need to be able to have my buddies over for tomahawk steaks". Lol””

reality is we run a business not a charity. all of the costs of running said business plus what we need to make in profit determines our final price. the consumer ultimately makes the decision if we are not priced correctly. we are in over 4000 homes a month and network with countless contractors all
over the country we know where we need to be to not only remain in business but also to stay competitive.

View attachment 1264738 View attachment 1264739 View attachment 1264740

That is definitely a response I can respect . Great looking meal !

 

[dribble]

What are some examples of things not needed?

That always seems to be fine a line. For instance if a plumber/HVAC/electrician find something that may fail in a year or 2 is it unethical to replace the item? Sure it’s still working but maybe you’re saving the homeowner from a headache down the road?

Now making up problems etc is 100% unethical.

The best thing to do is to explain to the customer exactly what the situation is and let them make the choice. Mr. customer your capacitor is working fine but it is the original 20 year old one that came with the unit. At this age they are prone to failure . I have a new one on the truck and I can install today for X dollars. If you don't want to have it done and it fails in the future, I will have to charge you for another service call and diagnosis fee on top of X dollars.

 

[gqchris]

Im working on a client today that we already rolled a tech out for a simple printer install. Well, this client bought a printer at Best Buy and tried to install herself. This is a huge well known construction company. Always budgeting. Makes no sense.

Long story short, Miss IT used the wrong driver, and we had to redo everything. They are now 8 hours into it at $225 an hour and the damn Fax card is dead. I told her to return it and we get to play the game all over. Lesson learned for them.

We have dumped clients like this the minute the nitpicking starts. Not worth the headache. But this one does pay quick and that goes a long way also.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Im working on a client today that we already rolled a tech out for a simple printer install. Well, this client bought a printer at home depot and tried to install herself. This is a huge well known construction company. Always budgeting. Makes no sense.

Long story short, Miss IT used the wrong driver, and we had to redo everything. They are now 8 hours into it at $225 an hour and the damn Fax card is dead. I told her to return it and we get to play the game all over. Lesson learned for them.

We have dumped clients like this the minute the nitpicking starts. Not worth the headache. But this one does pay quick and that goes a long way also.

@DWC Milwaukee sells printers now?

Do they make an M12 version?

 

[RIVERBORN]

Haha. I know pricing on hvac being that my brother in law does it. Tell u right now I can get a 3.5 ton installed w crane and the crew at my house. , because a swap out takes maybe 2 hrs for a package unit, for 3300$. . Bet people are saying 8-12 for the summer time. At least 200%. Hey if u can make it, make it. But times will change.

 

[gqchris]

@DWC Milwaukee sells printers now?

Do they make an M12 version?

Weird, I know I typed best buy. I thought I did! LOL

Damn Covid Brain, second round of this shit!

 

[hallett21]

The best thing to do is to explain to the customer exactly what the situation is and let them make the choice. Mr. customer your capacitor is working fine but it is the original 20 year old one that came with the unit. At this age they are prone to failure . I have a new one on the truck and I can install today for X dollars. If you don't want to have it done and it fails in the future, I will have to charge you for another service call and diagnosis fee on top of X dollars.

100%

Haha. I know pricing on hvac being that my brother in law does it. Tell u right now I can get a 3.5 ton installed w crane and the crew at my house. , because a swap out takes maybe 2 hrs for a package unit, for 3300$. . Bet people are saying 8-12 for the summer time. At least 200%. Hey if u can make it, make it. But times will change.

You can’t compare at cost vs a business selling for a profit. I’m sure your BIL is charging everyone else a little more lol.

2 techs costing $170-200 an hour for 2 hours

Crane fee

Equipment


Even if the wholesale cost of the unit is $1,500 he still couldn’t survive.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

100%


You can’t compare at cost vs a business selling for a profit. I’m sure your BIL is charging everyone else a little more lol.

2 techs costing $170-200 an hour for 2 hours

Crane fee

Equipment


Even if the wholesale cost of the unit is $1,500 he still couldn’t survive.

Now do $170/hour, a $15 cap that takes 15 mins to install, and charging $400 for the service

Again, I’m not against making money but when I ask a tech what is the time and materials billing is for a job, and it comes back less than what they are flat charging me, I begin asking questions, and then the tap dancing starts.

 

[hallett21]

Now do $170/hour, a $15 cap that takes 15 mins to install, and charging $400 for the service

Again, I’m not against making money but when I ask a tech what is the time and materials billing is for a job, and it comes back less than what they are flat charging me, I begin asking questions, and then the tap dancing starts.

This is why I don’t do service work lol.

Pretty much costs $50 to go anywhere in a service truck. In SoCal it could take 30-90 mins to get to the job.

Idk how you can operate at less than $250 to show up followed by $150-200 an hour. And then mark up material by 50-100%.

Or you go the Mike Diamond route. $99 to snake a drain and bend over for anything else lol.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

This is why I don’t do service work lol.

Pretty much costs $50 to go anywhere in a service truck. In SoCal it could take 30-90 mins to get to the job.

Idk how you can operate at less than $250 to show up followed by $150-200 an hour. And then mark up material by 50-100%.

Or you go the Mike Diamond route. $99 to snake a drain and bend over for anything else lol.

Well that is the HVAC service route.. $80-$120 to show up for a "health check". Bend over from there.

 

[hallett21]

Well that is the HVAC service route.. $80-$120 to show up for a "health check". Bend over from there.

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24K likes, 451 comments - profitforcontractors on May 4, 2022: "This is one of the funniest videos I’ve seen about contractors who struggle to find that balanc..."

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[185EZ]

The best thing to do is to explain to the customer exactly what the situation is and let them make the choice. Mr. customer your capacitor is working fine but it is the original 20 year old one that came with the unit. At this age they are prone to failure . I have a new one on the truck and I can install today for X dollars. If you don't want to have it done and it fails in the future, I will have to charge you for another service call and diagnosis fee on top of X dollars.

Well said.
All 4 units were working and I said if something is wrong tell me and he said you need 2 caps at $228. It was $456 and also the $256 to tell me i needed 2 caps. Not sure why he didn't suggest replacing the 2 other caps but that would have been $912 plus the $256 equals $1168 for 4 units.
They said $228 was their fee for replacing a cap. But they were already there and I was paying them. I figured there would have been a break in the price since they didn't have to drive out for a service call

 

[Havasu blue label]

Now do $170/hour, a $15 cap that takes 15 mins to install, and charging $400 for the service

Again, I’m not against making money but when I ask a tech what is the time and materials billing is for a job, and it comes back less than what they are flat charging me, I begin asking questions, and then the tap dancing starts.

They make money off commission you have to be a idiot two pay 170 hour

 

[NicPaus]

This is why I don’t do service work lol.

Pretty much costs $50 to go anywhere in a service truck. In SoCal it could take 30-90 mins to get to the job.

Idk how you can operate at less than $250 to show up followed by $150-200 an hour. And then mark up material by 50-100%.

Or you go the Mike Diamond route. $99 to snake a drain and bend over for anything else lol.

Mike Diamond the smell good plumber. $4400 for a 40 gallon water heater replacement. The $99 gets there foot in the door.


$228 is very fair for cap change. Friends charge $350 in the far IE where living is cheap. And locally $450-600.

 

[LuauLounge]

I love watching/hearing/reading the ads for A/C tune ups or clean your clogged drain or whatever, for $79. No one can buy the ad, much less put a tech in a stocked truck, drive 30 miles, do a service call and make money. So the tech now has to be the salesman to pay what it really costs.

 

[hallett21]

I just hope that everyone pays their favor forward when they sell or rent their home

 

[185EZ]

Mike Diamond the smell good plumber. $4400 for a 40 gallon water heater replacement. The $99 gets there foot in the door.


$228 is very fair for cap change. Friends charge $350 in the far IE where living is cheap. And locally $450-600.

I agree. $228 is fair if I called for a service appt. to replace a cap.
I had them for a service call and they said all systems working.
But I don't know what they saw in 2 caps that needed replacing and not the caps in the other units.
Almost as if they were looking to add more to the already $256 service bill?
Maybe I'm thinking this wrong or saying it wrong.

Plus I pulled the panel on one of the indoor coils and it was definitely not cleaned as they claimed on the ticket.
Like someone else said there is no way in hell they could clean 8 coils in 1 hour and 15 minutes