I know some of you follow MX, what do you think of the Deegan drama (claiming rule) at Loretta's?

[LargeOrangeFont]

Then they shouldn’t be racing a claimer series

The kid dropped the claim.. if he wanted to push the issue he could have and claimed the thing.

Sounds like he just didn’t think everyone would react the way they did. Politics in racing are a thing.

 

[FCT]

Then they shouldn’t be racing a claimer series

Like I said I’m not defending them because I agree if you don’t want it claimed then don’t run it. I think the rule is great for amateur racing and I also think it’s BS it went how it did.

 

[Hammer]

Agreed..

A simple solution for the Deegans and others that didn’t want him to claim it would have been “if all ya want to do is ride the bike.. drop the claim and go take it for as many laps as ya want after his next race.”

Probably woulda made everyone happy.. to threaten the kid and a dealership Isis crazy

I don’t think the kid was down for that option. He wanted THAT BIKE.

 

[buck35]

The kid dropped the claim.. if he wanted to push the issue he could have and claimed the thing.

Sounds like he just didn’t think everyone would react the way they did. Politics in racing are a thing.

By God you actually do know everything, don't you. The kid was threatened and lost his sponsorship and that's just racing ?

 

[Hammer]

Bad taste in everyone’s mouth now
Star. Shady
Deegan, not shocked
Kid, hope he isnt lying.
Yamaha. Meh. Other brands just as good

The thing i dont like is....
Wtf deegans. You just ride the bike. Star will get you on another. Stay out of it 100%.
Next, kids dad not in the room with brian deegan? Big big mistake. This is a minor and this involves cash and legalities. Kid should have walked. But since he didnt i feel there was some intimidating from star/ Yamaha/deegan/ hot head trainer.
Kid no fucking chance but to cave in.

Next, bobby reagan, owner of star said there are parts in the motor that they did not want anyone to see. Huh? So you cant buy these parts? My conclusion is cheating. My other conclusion is this cheating has been going on for dacades.

Last, haiden deegan needs to make this right. Some how. He is now the kid that is in the spot light once the rest is forgotten.

If the canada dealership really yanked the kids bike then i hope their sales plummet.

The part where you said Deegan talking to him without his dad is a big mistake. While I agree with you, it seemed at some point his dad wanted nothing to do with his claim. Made him do it by himself, I wonder why? If it where my kid. I’d want to be with him through it all to make sure it didn’t go sideways like it did.

 

[Boatymcboatface]

It’s a rule AMA should’ve stepped up and not let it get that far. Kid followed the rules and got strong armed into giving up the claim.

Doesn’t matter what his reasons are if they had nothing to hide it would’ve never got this far! Even if he was doing it to get fame or to be a Dick doesn’t matter it’s in the rules!

 

[RiverDave]

I’m gonna guess LOF and Hammer didn’t watch the video.

Kid is sponsored by a Yamaha dealer.. the dealer was called and told they’d never sell another motorcycle again if the kid bought the bike..

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

By God you actually do know everything, don't you. The kid was threatened and lost his sponsorship and that's just racing ?

Sounds like you agree with me. Politics in racing are a thing.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I’m gonna guess LOF and Hammer didn’t watch the video.

Kid is sponsored by a Yamaha dealer.. the dealer was called and told they’d never sell another motorcycle again if the kid bought the bike..

I read the article. They are all Yamaha riders, right? Yamaha can do whatever it wants as a brand outside the sanctioning body to protect its top race teams. We can debate if it was right or wrong to threaten a dealer franchise, or if that even happened. But if a sponsored team member does something to affect the top factory team of the same brand that sponsors him, that is not going to go unnoticed. You are biting the hand that feeds you.

The whole thing is a shit show, but the kid brought his checkers to a chess game. If the kid was a privateer, this would be a different thing entirely.

There are 1000 other dudes they could find that would jump at a chance to be sponsored that won’t cause drama by trying to claim their top teams bike.

 

[Riverryder]

I’m gonna guess LOF and Hammer didn’t watch the video.

Kid is sponsored by a Yamaha dealer.. the dealer was called and told they’d never sell another motorcycle again if the kid bought the bike..

Read post 43 Yamaha dealer and Yamaha didn’t say that

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Read post 43 Yamaha dealer and Yamaha didn’t say that

This will turn into a #metoo MX edition tomorrow…

All accusers must be believed!!

 

[was thatguy]

So if you refuse to sell YOUR bike that IS NOT for sale, you get banned?

Yes.
This is not an unlimited class the way I’m reading it?
You bring a “works” bike to an amateur race you just might lose it.

 

[RiverDave]

Read post 43 Yamaha dealer and Yamaha didn’t say that

I just watched the video.. seemed pretty shady to me but my give a f on this is pretty low..

If it was my kid I woulda told him claim the bike and I woulda cracked that motor open and showed the world after they leaned on my kid..

 

[RiverDave]

Yes.
This is not an unlimited class the way I’m reading it?
You bring a “works” bike to an amateur race you just might lose it.

Bingo.

On top of which it is theorized that they weren’t supposed to bring that bike to begin with.. if it wasn’t factory it would be cheating

 

[was thatguy]

Bingo.

On top of which it is theorized that they weren’t supposed to bring that bike to begin with.. if it wasn’t factory it would he cheating

Cheating or not is immaterial really?
The bike is exposed to the claimer rules at that point whether legal or not legal.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I just watched the video.. seemed pretty shady to me but my give a f on this is pretty low..

If it was my kid I woulda told him claim the bike and I woulda cracked that motor open and showed the world after they leaned on my kid..

And then your kid would never get a ride ever again. They both ride for the same mfg. That is where the kids calculus of this deal went sideways.

Running in the grey area is part of racing. The factory top teams are pushing the bleeding edge and sometimes over it, even in a spec or factory class.

I could give a shit as well, and it appears to have been handled poorly of all fronts, and every party seems to have a different version of the events.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Cheating or not is immaterial really?
The bike is exposed to the claimer rules at that point whether legal or not legal.

And if the bike isn’t supposed to be there that is for the sanctioning body to deal with.

If that is the case the kid wants to buy the “cheaters” bike to cheat himself?

By exposing it as a “cheater” bike he himself wouldn’t have been able to run it anyway.

Again the whole deal of the kid trying to claim the thing was shortsighted. There seems to be few positive outcomes to be gained.. aside from I got this factory ++ bike to ride. Great, now what?

 

[Crazyhippy]

And then your kid would never get a ride ever again. They both ride for the same mfg. That is where the kids calculus of this deal went sideways.

Running in the grey area is part of racing. The factory top teams are pushing the bleeding edge and sometimes over it, even in a spec or factory class.

I could give a shit as well, and it appears to have been handled poorly of all fronts, and every party seems to have a different version of the events.

Wouldn't ride for Yamaha maybe... How badly would Suzuki, Honda or Kawasaki like to get their hands on that bike?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Wouldn't ride for Yamaha maybe... How badly would Suzuki, Honda or Kawasaki like to get their hands on that bike?

Ehh maybe. Now your the rider that just gives away proprietary info to another mfg.. who’s to say that rider wont do it again to the next team?

But to your point, if they kid was that good he still might be picked up by someone else.

Seems like a great way to burn bridges and blemish your career though.

 

[Crazyhippy]

Ehh maybe. Now your the rider that just gives away proprietary info to another mfg.. who’s to say that rider wont do it again to the next team?

But to your point, if they kid was that good he still might be picked up by someone else.

Seems like a great way to burn bridges and blemish your career though.

You don't have to go anywhere else, just remind Yamaha that you are able to do so. They play nice, you play nice.

And if they are putting proprietary info into a bike raced with claimer rules, that is on them for being fucking retarded!!!

 

[RiverDave]

And if the bike isn’t supposed to be there that is for the sanctioning body to deal with.

If that is the case the kid wants to buy the “cheaters” bike to cheat himself?

By exposing it as a “cheater” bike he himself wouldn’t have been able to run it anyway.

Again the whole deal of the kid trying to claim the thing was shortsighted. There seems to be few positive outcomes to be gained.. aside from I got this factory ++ bike to ride. Great, now what?

You should watch the video.. your arguing points without the information you’d need to present an argument.

 

[RiverDave]

And then your kid would never get a ride ever again. They both ride for the same mfg. That is where the kids calculus of this deal went sideways.

Running in the grey area is part of racing. The factory top teams are pushing the bleeding edge and sometimes over it, even in a spec or factory class.

I could give a shit as well, and it appears to have been handled poorly of all fronts, and every party seems to have a different version of the events.

The kid doesn’t have a ride now. Lol

 

[RiverDave]

Ehh maybe. Now your the rider that just gives away proprietary info to another mfg.. who’s to say that rider wont do it again to the next team?

But to your point, if they kid was that good he still might be picked up by someone else.

Seems like a great way to burn bridges and blemish your career though.

I said that’s what I would do.. nobody said that’s what the kid would do…

 

[Dan Lorenze]

It’s a rule AMA should’ve stepped up and not let it get that far. Kid followed the rules and got strong armed into giving up the claim.

Doesn’t matter what his reasons are if they had nothing to hide it would’ve never got this far! Even if he was doing it to get fame or to be a Dick doesn’t matter it’s in the rules!

Took the words outta my mouth. 100%

Don’t want to get your works bike taken away, don’t show up to an AMA Amateur race with it. That’s why the rule is in place.

Star Racing, Yamaha, Deegan’s got caught, and the AMA handled this poorly.

Just goes to show you that if you have enough money and pull rules don’t apply to you.

 

[wallnutz]

You should watch the video.. your arguing points without the information you’d need to present an argument.

Are you new here?

 

[Hammer]

I find it kinda lame that the kid talked shit about Brian Deegan not knowing the rule when they were talking, he didn’t know the rule until recently either

I’m gonna guess LOF and Hammer didn’t watch the video.

Kid is sponsored by a Yamaha dealer.. the dealer was called and told they’d never sell another motorcycle again if the kid bought the bike..

i watched the video. The kid comes off as a douche to me. He barely read up on the rule and has the audacity to tell Brian deegan if you don't know the rules maybe you shouldn't be racing? Didn't need to go there.

I don't understand how he didn't have the money at the regionals when the bike was cheaper but had money to buy it Lorettas when it was more expensive? I don't know the timeline between those races and don't care enough to investigate it.

I've been reading that he's had beef with Deegans kid racing prior to this. A rule is a rule and it should have been upheld. Sucks he was railroaded by Yamaha and Star.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

My son just turned 10 and races beginner 85 classes in Swap Moto and sometimes Moto4Kids. My son has a couple bikes, but other than pipe and silencer, clutch and changing the piston, it's pretty much stock. With that said, he races against 105's and 112's in a lot of races. I've heard parents talk about it and I have a friend parent that told me flat out. One bike is so modded it has to cool down after 5-7 laps.

My son still pulls 2nd wins and has been 1st a couple times. However, I am going to build a backup 105 engine and see if it helps just for my knowledge.

I will say the hardest thing is not the power for the straights or flats, having the power to clear big gaps is the most important part. If one kid can only clear a double, but another kid can clear a triple that can add up in 5 laps.

I would have liked to see that kid get Deegan's bike. He should have taken it. Yamaha wouldn't have stopped shipping bikes to his sponsor.

Also, Yamaha's suck! Their 2022 is better than 2021, but still short of KTM/Husky/Gas Gas unless they are factory.

 

[boatnam2]

I would of said give me 2 new stock 2023's and we'll call it even.

 

[Boat211]

I find it kinda lame that the kid talked shit about Brian Deegan not knowing the rule when they were talking, he didn’t know the rule until recently either

i watched the video. The kid comes off as a douche to me. He barely read up on the rule and has the audacity to tell Brian deegan if you don't know the rules maybe you shouldn't be racing? Didn't need to go there.

I don't understand how he didn't have the money at the regionals when the bike was cheaper but had money to buy it Lorettas when it was more expensive? I don't know the timeline between those races and don't care enough to investigate it.

I've been reading that he's had beef with Deegans kid racing prior to this. A rule is a rule and it should have been upheld. Sucks he was railroaded by Yamaha and Star.

Regionals were not really that long ago. I was thinking the same thing. If I was going to do this claim deal, I would have waited til LL as well. You know they will have all the good shit at that party.

 

[Badchoices03]

kid- claimed the bike (hes had beef with deegan before this at a couple races)

kids motor builder- is leading the way. he wanted the bike to pull it apart, hes know to do sketchy things


yamaha rep( donnie luce)-pulled kid aside to talk about why he was doing it. kid said his yamahas arent reliable. donnie told him they would send him motors.
matt walker(trainer) got a call from the dealer owner that supports the kid and tells him he doesnt support this and to go talk to the kid. he wants no part of this.
matt walker( kids trainer) told him no to claim the bike as it will ruin his name.
yamaha rep/ trainer talk to kids dad. claim is dropped.


there was claims donnie called the dealer and told them they were gonna pull yamaha affiliation. donnie says he didnt.


once the claim was dropped the sick ngar gnar DEEGANS had the STAR motor taken out of the bike a put a GYTR motor in it for his last 2 motos and he still waxed everyone.

got it from PULPmx. steve had all these guys on his show last monday.

@Duramax @Badchoices03

Steve sucks off the whole Yamaha team, he of course is going to spin it to make it look like Yamaha did no wrong....Steve is a scumbag..

 

[Boatymcboatface]

so, Yamaha's suck! Their 2022 is better than 2021, but still short of KTM/Husky/Gas Gas unless they are factory.

 

[Badchoices03]

It doesn't matter WHY he made a claim, it doesn't matter HOW he came up with the money, it doesn't matter who wanted him to make the claim....he made a legal claim, did everything by their rules, had the cash ready to go....and he got pressured and threatened by Deegan and Yamaha to drop the claim....

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You should watch the video.. your arguing points without the information you’d need to present an argument.

I read a couple accounts/articles and they all said the facts were a little different already

My argument is simple - politics in racing are a thing. Yes he followed the AMA rules but as a sponsored rider you don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Thats why he’s got no ride. He brought his checkers to a chess game. It does not make any of it right, but just because you can does not mean you should.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

It doesn't matter WHY he made a claim, it doesn't matter HOW he came up with the money, it doesn't matter who wanted him to make the claim....he made a legal claim, did everything by their rules, had the cash ready to go....and he got pressured and threatened by Deegan and Yamaha to drop the claim....

Agreed. This is what I said from the beginning.

 

[GreenEnergy28]

Well, everyone involved with the LOORS off road series knows Deegan cheated big time in the Pro Lite class so we know where he stands on the subject.....

Not just him. Hailey had a lot going on in the Jr2 and Mod Kart classes as well. Called it out a few times and Good ol' Lee just brushed it under the rug. Like I said earlier, that name sell tickets!

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

My son just turned 10 and races beginner 85 classes in Swap Moto and sometimes Moto4Kids. My son has a couple bikes, but other than pipe and silencer, clutch and changing the piston, it's pretty much stock. With that said, he races against 105's and 112's in a lot of races. I've heard parents talk about it and I have a friend parent that told me flat out. One bike is so modded it has to cool down after 5-7 laps.

My son still pulls 2nd wins and has been 1st a couple times. However, I am going to build a backup 105 engine and see if it helps just for my knowledge.

I will say the hardest thing is not the power for the straights or flats, having the power to clear big gaps is the most important part. If one kid can only clear a double, but another kid can clear a triple that can add up in 5 laps.

I would have liked to see that kid get Deegan's bike. He should have taken it. Yamaha wouldn't have stopped shipping bikes to his sponsor.

so, Yamaha's suck! Their 2022 is better than 2021, but still short of KTM/Husky/Gas Gas unless they are factory.





View attachment 1147343

Just my .02, and that goes for the 85's as I know the bikes in and out. If you have taken them both apart and seen the same kids ride both, most will agree. I haven't taken a Yamaha 250 or 450 apart, but from my visual, they suck too. HAHA

 

[Badchoices03]

Just my .02, and that goes for the 85's as I know the bikes in and out. If you have taken them both apart and seen the same kids ride both, most will agree. I haven't taken a Yamaha 250 or 450 apart, but from my visual, they suck too. HAHA

Eli thinks differently....lol

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

Eli thinks differently....lol
View attachment 1147355

Factory bike...not even comparable which is the whole point of this thread.

 

[Tobester]

My question is...who or what determines the value of the bike? Kid claimed it for $17k. Most likely Deegans bike has never had a bill of sale if it came straight from the factory. Is there even an invoice for it at that level? Most factory riders do not own their bikes.
A car dealerships final MSRP varies a lot after "factory upgrades". Wouldn't a factory Yamaha bike value be assessed after the "factory upgrades"? If I were the Deegans, that would have been my approach. To inflate the price of the bike and make it unobtainable for the kid. Unless the claiming rules say something like "double the price of the national average stock motorcycle".
I am also not aware if at registration you have to state the value of the bike. That would kill my argument.

 

[Racer56]

 

[Boatymcboatface]

Just my .02, and that goes for the 85's as I know the bikes in and out. If you have taken them both apart and seen the same kids ride both, most will agree. I haven't taken a Yamaha 250 or 450 apart, but from my visual, they suck too. HAHA

Yeah it is just your .02.

Was a KTM guy for years tried to convince myself they’re good and without a ton of help they just aren’t. I rode a husky and a Yamaha back to back last weekend and even the husky owner agreed he needs a lot more work on his bike to get it right. But again that’s just his .02.


If your just talking about minis witch this thread isn’t about then maybe. But since we aren’t and your talking about minis then maybe that’s a thread you should start if your concerns are to keep it on topic.

 

[renodaytona]

My question is...who or what determines the value of the bike? Kid claimed it for $17k. Most likely Deegans bike has never had a bill of sale if it came straight from the factory. Is there even an invoice for it at that level? Most factory riders do not own their bikes.
A car dealerships final MSRP varies a lot after "factory upgrades". Wouldn't a factory Yamaha bike value be assessed after the "factory upgrades"? If I were the Deegans, that would have been my approach. To inflate the price of the bike and make it unobtainable for the kid. Unless the claiming rules say something like "double the price of the national average stock motorcycle".
I am also not aware if at registration you have to state the value of the bike. That would kill my argument.

It's 2X the MSRP of the bike. No aftermarket parts or factory (STAR) parts considered.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

My question is...who or what determines the value of the bike? Kid claimed it for $17k. Most likely Deegans bike has never had a bill of sale if it came straight from the factory. Is there even an invoice for it at that level? Most factory riders do not own their bikes.
A car dealerships final MSRP varies a lot after "factory upgrades". Wouldn't a factory Yamaha bike value be assessed after the "factory upgrades"? If I were the Deegans, that would have been my approach. To inflate the price of the bike and make it unobtainable for the kid. Unless the claiming rules say something like "double the price of the national average stock motorcycle".
I am also not aware if at registration you have to state the value of the bike. That would kill my argument.

2 times the MSRP of the stock bike that can be purchased at any dealership. You can't buy factory bikes as they are for marketing. Actually, I was told by a factory racer, you could buy a factory bike, but it would probably be about $250,000. MSRP is on the website.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

Yeah it is just your .02.

Was a KTM guy for years tried to convince myself they’re good and without a ton of help they just aren’t. I rode a husky and a Yamaha back to back last weekend and even the husky owner agreed he needs a lot more work on his bike to get it right. But again that’s just his .02.


If your just talking about minis witch this thread isn’t about then maybe. But since we aren’t and your talking about minis then maybe that’s a thread you should start if your concerns are to keep it on topic.

I have no concerns in the fight at all. I think it is classic. Before Deegan moved I would see him a couple times a week at the track and have no negative experiences with him.

I have a Husky Rockstar 450 and still think it's a better bike than the Yamaha 450, but the Rockstar has triple trees, wheels, bars, and a few other items that are huge upgrades. The Yamaha needs all of that and more....my .02 again. At the end of the day, it's the rider that makes the bike.

 

[Racer56]

 

[RichieRich]

kid- claimed the bike (hes had beef with deegan before this at a couple races)

kids motor builder- is leading the way. he wanted the bike to pull it apart, hes know to do sketchy things


yamaha rep( donnie luce)-pulled kid aside to talk about why he was doing it. kid said his yamahas arent reliable. donnie told him they would send him motors.
matt walker(trainer) got a call from the dealer owner that supports the kid and tells him he doesnt support this and to go talk to the kid. he wants no part of this.
matt walker( kids trainer) told him no to claim the bike as it will ruin his name.
yamaha rep/ trainer talk to kids dad. claim is dropped.


there was claims donnie called the dealer and told them they were gonna pull yamaha affiliation. donnie says he didnt.


once the claim was dropped the sick ngar gnar DEEGANS had the STAR motor taken out of the bike a put a GYTR motor in it for his last 2 motos and he still waxed everyone.

got it from PULPmx. steve had all these guys on his show last monday.

@Duramax @Badchoices03

nobody should have known who put the claim in on the bike...AMA screwed that up for sure.

 

[RichieRich]

Then they shouldn’t be racing a claimer series

exactly...and Bobby Regan from Star admitted that there are parts in that engine that are stamped and they do not want others finding out where to get them at.

 

[RichieRich]

My son just turned 10 and races beginner 85 classes in Swap Moto and sometimes Moto4Kids. My son has a couple bikes, but other than pipe and silencer, clutch and changing the piston, it's pretty much stock. With that said, he races against 105's and 112's in a lot of races. I've heard parents talk about it and I have a friend parent that told me flat out. One bike is so modded it has to cool down after 5-7 laps.

My son still pulls 2nd wins and has been 1st a couple times. However, I am going to build a backup 105 engine and see if it helps just for my knowledge.

I will say the hardest thing is not the power for the straights or flats, having the power to clear big gaps is the most important part. If one kid can only clear a double, but another kid can clear a triple that can add up in 5 laps.

I would have liked to see that kid get Deegan's bike. He should have taken it. Yamaha wouldn't have stopped shipping bikes to his sponsor.

Also, Yamaha's suck! Their 2022 is better than 2021, but still short of KTM/Husky/Gas Gas unless they are factory.

funny...my kid also races an 85 in those series as well as a lot of AMA stuff. You guys racing this weekend at Fox?

 

[was thatguy]

My question is...who or what determines the value of the bike? Kid claimed it for $17k. Most likely Deegans bike has never had a bill of sale if it came straight from the factory. Is there even an invoice for it at that level? Most factory riders do not own their bikes.
A car dealerships final MSRP varies a lot after "factory upgrades". Wouldn't a factory Yamaha bike value be assessed after the "factory upgrades"? If I were the Deegans, that would have been my approach. To inflate the price of the bike and make it unobtainable for the kid. Unless the claiming rules say something like "double the price of the national average stock motorcycle".
I am also not aware if at registration you have to state the value of the bike. That would kill my argument.

The value of the claimed bike (or engine or any claimed component in any form of racing) does not matter. That’s sort of the whole point.
If you bring a unobtainium bike to a limited class race you just might lose your bike for a fraction of its value.
In this particular class it says 2x MSRP of that model bike. It’s a financial risk to invest more than that to create a superior bike. That’s the entire premise of claiming rules.

 

[outboard_256]

My guess is that deagan was running a big bore kit and if that engine was to be cracked open deagan would be disqualifed and actually loose the race. It would also be the reason they swapped engines the next day and ran a stock engine so they wouldn't get caught. Pretty easy to read between the lines if you have raced before. The factory doesn't care about "secret parts" next years factor engines will have all new secret parts so those are already outdated by the time they can copy them. Yamaha does care if there star rider gets disqualified for cheating with there engines.