I know some of you follow MX, what do you think of the Deegan drama (claiming rule) at Loretta's?

[Duramax]

To give a real fast explanation, the claiming rule says that at any time, your bike can be purchased from you at the amount of MSRP x2. If you refuse, you are banned from amateur nationals for like 2 years or something. The reasoning behind it is simple, to try and keep the cost down and ensure a somewhat level playing field.

 

[JFMFG]

I’m sure they have much more in that bike. The entire thing is drama if you ask me.

 

[dirtslinger2]

Claiming rules are great, they used to have them in Off-Road in the stock classes, it kept people from building expensive motors and cheating.

I don't take it as drama, gonna have to look and see if I can find the outcome after the Claim.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Someone probably paid the kid some cash to go away...

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Claiming rules are great, they used to have them in Off-Road in the stock classes, it kept people from building expensive motors and cheating.

I don't take it as drama, the Deegans know bikes and he's doing because he suspects something. Gonna have to look and see if I can find the outcome after the Claim.

Back in the day they used to have claiming rules for the 24 hours of Lemons endurance racing I did. They did away with them at some point.

 

[MK1MOD0]

The rule is there for a reason. Happened at Daytona years ago. Honda won the 600cc class and absolutely smoked EVERYONE down the straight. Problem was, these were Super Stock machines that were supposed to be near stock...... including the suspension( only small changes allowed). Well after the race, another racer claimed it and Honda thru a fit. Turned out Honda had a very special front fork on the bike as well as engine mods. At that point everyone knew Honda was up to some bs. They ended up working a deal involving a few fully prepped bikes in exchange for the winning bike, and that bike didn’t race again. Point is, the factory always has ways to ( work around the rules) if you will. It keeps things on the level.

 

[MonkeyButt70]

Crew chiefs an engineers do not get paid to prep the bike, they get paid to distort the rules while trying to remain under the radar. Claiming rules are great to have, keeps people somewhat honest.

 

[Duramax]

I watched the kids video who wanted to claim it. To me, he seemed 100% genuine. "what 17yr old would not want to ride a Star Yamaha!?" He was stoked on it, and worked over a year to save the money (17k). For example, Ryder D just put his PC bike up for sale that was a local race bike I think for like 40K or something.

Anyway, the amount of bullshit and strong arming that was done to this kid was horrible, and I hope something comes of it.

 

[liquid addiction]

Used to race stock cars. In some of the entry classes there were engine claim rules. I cant remember what the amount was, but you only had so much time after the main event to claim someone else's motor.

 

[EmpirE231]

There's cheating in racing?? no way!!

 

[JLG614]

I read the whole article on one of the MX pages. I don't know what to think of it. First he claims it without his parents there which is fine because he has the cash. Then the trainer and someone else got all heated and almost throw blows. Then all the random stuff with the kids sponsors comes up and ultimately he came back and withdraws the claims? My only thought is the kid and maybe his trainer wanted the bike to tear it down and see what parts they are using so they can do the same to his bike but his sponsors got wind of it and threatened to pull sponsorship if he went through with it so ultimately he withdrew the claim? I had never known about the claim rule until all of this but its actually a pretty cool rule if you ask me. Then again if my son ever wants to race (he's 18 month right now lol) and we built his bike full tilt and someone claimed it during a race weekend you can bet your ass I would be pissed

 

[evantwheeler]

If you have competition, someone will always be pushing the limits and stretching the rules for an advantage. I think it drives innovation and is good overall. I like the idea of claiming, it lets you know that there is a chance someone can call you out and catch you red handed. I like @Sportin' Wood recent post on the insight of cheating and racing:

Scary thought

Is it even still “racing” at that point? That’s kinda my point.

www.riverdavesplace.com

 

[Duramax]

Someone probably paid the kid some cash to go away...

Actually, in the very end, the Yamaha shop that he got help from (kid doing the claim) back in Canada, called him and told him that if he went through with the claim there was a chance that the shop would lose the support THEY get from Yamaha. He didn't want that for any of the other racers the shop helped so he dropped the claim.....and as soon as he got home from the race, the shop took back their bikes and dropped him anyway.

 

[GreenEnergy28]

Guy I work with ran the World of Outlaw sprint cars and told me about the claim rule in that series years ago. Same kind of deal, if you win x amount of races, another driver can claim your engine. He used to build his engines with all the engraving ground off. That way if this engine was claimed, you couldn't just see what cam, crank, etc was used. Guy would have to work at it....
With that said, my nephew raced short course with the Deegans. They were well known for cheating and Lucas Oil didn't give 2 shits about it because that name sell tickets! There is no question that the kid has talent and will most definitely be a top rider in the future. Was he on a full factory bike.... IMO yep. Does it change the fact that the kid can win...Nope. Did Brennan get "talked into" retracting the claim on the bike...100%!!! That's my 2 pennies.

 

[Duramax]

I read the whole article on one of the MX pages. I don't know what to think of it. First he claims it without his parents there which is fine because he has the cash. Then the trainer and someone else got all heated and almost throw blows. Then all the random stuff with the kids sponsors comes up and ultimately he came back and withdraws the claims? My only thought is the kid and maybe his trainer wanted the bike to tear it down and see what parts they are using so they can do the same to his bike but his sponsors got wind of it and threatened to pull sponsorship if he went through with it so ultimately he withdrew the claim? I had never known about the claim rule until all of this but its actually a pretty cool rule if you ask me. Then again if my son ever wants to race (he's 18 month right now lol) and we built his bike full tilt and someone claimed it during a race weekend you can bet your ass I would be pissed

You need to watch his interview.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Actually, in the very end, the Yamaha shop that he got help from (kid doing the claim) back in Canada, called him and told him that if he went through with the claim there was a chance that the shop would lose the support THEY get from Yamaha. He didn't want that for any of the other racers the shop helped so he dropped the claim.....and as soon as he got home from the race, the shop took back their bikes and dropped him anyway.

Oh I didn't know that last part was the supposed reason for dropping the claim and the result.

 

[ltbaney1]

couple friends race dirt modifieds. they have a claim rule. only the winners engine can be claimed, you must finish on the same lap as the leader and the leader gets your engine and the cost of the claim. engines must be removed at the track under official supervision. if the person being "claimed" denies, they are finished for the season. only seen the "claim" happen once or twice that i can remember. i have nothing against the rule. keeps everyone honest.

 

[Duramax]

Oh I didn't know that last part was the supposed reason for dropping the claim and the result.

Everybody kept asking him, "who put this up, why are you doing it", etc,etc, and the kid was like, IT'S A FACTORY BIKE FOR ONLY 17K.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Everybody kept asking him, "who put this up, why are you doing it", etc,etc, and the kid was like, IT'S A FACTORY BIKE FOR ONLY 17K.

The rationale was good.. He just didn't think ahead

 

[GOTTBoat]

From the videos I saw it was the kids engine builder with him. Kid claims Yamaha rep at Loretta's threatened to pull the kids sponsors Yamaha dealership up in Canada but interview of Yamaha rep says nope never happened but from what I saw rep was being very careful and weird with his answers. There are many lies in this deal but who knows what the truth is.

 

[fishing fool]

Who cares about ALL other motorsports, this is a simple question about Deegan.

Who is asking to buy the bile? Deegan or is someone tring to buy Deegan's bike?

 

[GOTTBoat]

Kid wanted Deegan's Star Racing bike.

 

[FCT]

I think claim rules are great. I believe it helps keep things legal and a little more cost friendly for the average family although not always the case. If Star didn’t want a factory bike claimed then they shouldn’t put him on it. You know the rules before you line up at that gate. You don’t like them? Stay home.

Amateur racing has changed a lot and I don’t believe for the better sometimes. Can a kid jump on a stock bike and still win against someone with a factory bike? I believe so but definitely at a huge disadvantage. I wish they still kept factory setups out of amateur racing to keep the playing field a little more level. Damn near nothing on a factory bike is OEM parts. Our “Factory” bikes as amateurs were not full factory bikes like they are now. I won the 250 A class in 2005 and after they tore me down a like 12th place guy said he was going to claim my bike and Kawasaki said no problem and I just laughed. I believe he thought I was cheating and wanted to dig deeper but once he realized nobody cared he backed out.

 

[HCP3]

From the kid who tried to buy it.

 

[Duramax]

From the videos I saw it was the kids engine builder with him. Kid claims Yamaha rep at Loretta's threatened to pull the kids sponsors Yamaha dealership up in Canada but interview of Yamaha rep says nope never happened but from what I saw rep was being very careful and weird with his answers. There are many lies in this deal but who knows what the truth is.

Everyone who was interviewed about it was off, except for the kid.

The engine builder was like, I will even sign something saying I will not copy the engine specs. But guess what, the bike is the kids now, so he can do whatever the fuck he wants!
Matt Walker was one of the worst by far. The kid lived at his place for awhile to train, and Matt even called him his, "rider" but when he found out the kid wanted the bike he was horrible to him.

THE WHOLE REASON THE CLAIMING RULE IS A RULE. Star had a factory bike. Haiden could smoke that class on a stock bike.

Tim/Tom Cotter kind of posed as a AMA official towards this young man and tried talking him out of it. He works for Davey Coombs and MX Sports.

Everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Javajoe]

They say he may race the last 2 outdoors

 

[scottchbrite]

I don’t really follow MX but I like Motorsports, I’m friends with Dave Pingree and follow some if his Whiskey Throttle shows. Ping and Grant Langston had a piece on Dave’s Instagram. They put some peeps on blast. Pretty interesting. The part about the kid possibly getting black balled is bullshit.

 

[timstoy]

This happened years ago on the pro level where a rider claimed a factory Honda and he got it. Don’t remember the rider’s involved but after this happened whoever won the race a rival manufacturer would automatically claim the bike and after the time limit passed the manufacturer would withdraw the claim. This brought about the rule that factory bikes had to be based on a production bike. I remember reading in Cycle News that a factory Honda mechanic said about the works bike that parts are no problem as long as you make them!

 

[GOTTBoat]

They say he may race the last 2 outdoors

Probably on that bike! jk

 

[JJ McClure]

If you have competition, someone will always be pushing the limits and stretching the rules for an advantage. I think it drives innovation and is good overall. I like the idea of claiming, it lets you know that there is a chance someone can call you out and catch you red handed. I like @Sportin' Wood recent post on the insight of cheating and racing:

Scary thought

Is it even still “racing” at that point? That’s kinda my point.

www.riverdavesplace.com

Innovation. Well said sir. That’s what we always call it. When we were running late models we won a main and someone tried to claim our engine... said it was over the cubic inch limit. So we tore it down at tech and proved it was legal displacement. Claiming dude dropped his claim.

And yes. That engine had a lot of innovation. Including a flat plane crack in a sbc.

However, it makes me mad that this kids Yamaha shop in Canada screwed him over like that.

My.02

 

[Duramax]

I don’t really follow MX but I like Motorsports, I’m friends with Dave Pingree and follow some if his Whiskey Throttle shows. Ping and Grant Langston had a piece on Dave’s Instagram. They put some peeps on blast. Pretty interesting. The part about the kid possibly getting black balled is bullshit.

Yep, David and I go way back. He will put people on blast for sure.

 

[Badchoices03]

I think he got bullied by Deegan and Star Yamaha.....

 

[Canuck 1]

Yamaha owes this kid a works bike

 

[white tortilla]

I listened to all the vital MX YouTube on this that interviewed all the players over a couple days driving home.

They had interviewed the kid, the race organizer, AMA guy, Yamaha USA rep, the trainer and the sponser.

They are all trying to cover thier asses. They basically scared the kid out of the claim. The Yamaha rep promised him some engines to drop it, the trainer told him it was going to hurt is career, AMA guy and race organizer both talked like they were fully supporting the kid.

Everyone was scared of pissing off the Deegans and possibly exposing the bike being illegal.

Pretty lame. They shoulda handed him the bike and lesson learned. The rule was designed for exactly this reason. Trying to level the field so a kid on a resonable budget is racing others with similar gear.

 

[SBMech]

Yamaha and everyone involved in threatening this kid needs to be banned from the sport for life. Period.

There is a reason the rules exist, much less the fact that they are mostly a joke because for years the top manufacturers just "buy swap" if there is an issue.

It's really the fucked part about humans, in almost every competitive arena or sport, there are people who cheat. they can afford it, so they give zero fucks.

 

[OC Mike]

The more people try to cover something up, the dirtier it is.
Just like the FBI...

 

[Tommy Gun Images]

Basically the kid had the money and went about it the right way. Claimed the bike then the Deegans and others threw their weight around and got the whole thing turned around and made things shit for the kid.
Why even have a claiming rule if the AMA isn’t going to stand by it?

 

[Badchoices03]

Basically the kid had the money and went about it the right way. Claimed the bike then the Deegans and others threw their weight around and got the whole thing turned around and made things shirt for the kid.
Why even have a claiming rule if the AMA isn’t going to stand by it?

100% - AMA and MX Sports were very supportive of the kid and said he did everything right...it was pressure from Deegan and Yamaha that got him to rescind his claim....I dont think AMA did anything wrong they were going to give him the bike until he said he didn't want to go through with it...

 

[HotRod82]

Well, everyone involved with the LOORS off road series knows Deegan cheated big time in the Pro Lite class so we know where he stands on the subject.....

 

[Your ad here]

To give a real fast explanation, the claiming rule says that at any time, your bike can be purchased from you at the amount of MSRP x2. If you refuse, you are banned from amateur nationals for like 2 years or something. The reasoning behind it is simple, to try and keep the cost down and ensure a somewhat level playing field.

So if you refuse to sell YOUR bike that IS NOT for sale, you get banned?

 

[Badchoices03]

So if you refuse to sell YOUR bike that IS NOT for sale, you get banned?

Yes, the rule is there so that factories or just rich families don't come to an amateur race with an $45k race bike in order to try to make it fair to everyone.....so anything you bring, you have to be willing to lose it for whatever double MSRP is...

 

[FCT]

So if you refuse to sell YOUR bike that IS NOT for sale, you get banned?

Clearly you missed the point and the reason the rule exist. It’s been going on for a long time. Everyone knows the rules and if you don’t like it stay home or be willing to say ok.

If you were a amateur factory rider and you got caught cheating anywhere your ass would be in deep shit because they did not tolerate it from us. They did not want the bad image and that kept the majority of us honest because it was not worth it. If you have the ability to win you truly don’t need to cheat. A kid with the talent of Deegan will win regardless. In 2004 for my first Loretta’s title in 250B stock the only reason I won was because Alessi got DQed for cheating. He removed the screen out of his filter cage which is illegal in the stock class. Did it help him win? Hell no he would of won anyways but it was still cheating and it cost him. Winning is winning and cheating it cheating.


I can’t stand cheaters and people who cry and whine like little bitches because a rule isn’t in their favor and things don’t go the way they want. Everyone has the same set of rules to play by.


A lot of times at Lorettas before the third Moto guys that had the chance of getting their bike Claimed would takeoff the A Kit suspension just in case It did. Any top guys always had two new bikes built just for Loretta’s so if you did claim it not only were you getting a brand new bike but a damn nice one part of the fun

 

[Riverryder]

kid- claimed the bike (hes had beef with deegan before this at a couple races)

kids motor builder- is leading the way. he wanted the bike to pull it apart, hes know to do sketchy things


yamaha rep( donnie luce)-pulled kid aside to talk about why he was doing it. kid said his yamahas arent reliable. donnie told him they would send him motors.
matt walker(trainer) got a call from the dealer owner that supports the kid and tells him he doesnt support this and to go talk to the kid. he wants no part of this.
matt walker( kids trainer) told him no to claim the bike as it will ruin his name.
yamaha rep/ trainer talk to kids dad. claim is dropped.


there was claims donnie called the dealer and told them they were gonna pull yamaha affiliation. donnie says he didnt.


once the claim was dropped the sick ngar gnar DEEGANS had the STAR motor taken out of the bike a put a GYTR motor in it for his last 2 motos and he still waxed everyone.

got it from PULPmx. steve had all these guys on his show last monday.

@Duramax @Badchoices03

 

[Englewood]

I don’t know Deegan personally but he seems like a tool. Even going back to the MM days he seems like a little weasel.

 

[Drew]

Loretta’s is not the same as it was in the past . For instance we have super fast guys that just hit the regional qualifiers. They never move out of C class because they never won district championships. So the qualify at all the Regionals in the c class when the are easily A riders. These new kids don’t stand a chance. It’s a shame.

 

[riverroyal]

Bad taste in everyone’s mouth now
Star. Shady
Deegan, not shocked
Kid, hope he isnt lying.
Yamaha. Meh. Other brands just as good

The thing i dont like is....
Wtf deegans. You just ride the bike. Star will get you on another. Stay out of it 100%.
Next, kids dad not in the room with brian deegan? Big big mistake. This is a minor and this involves cash and legalities. Kid should have walked. But since he didnt i feel there was some intimidating from star/ Yamaha/deegan/ hot head trainer.
Kid no fucking chance but to cave in.

Next, bobby reagan, owner of star said there are parts in the motor that they did not want anyone to see. Huh? So you cant buy these parts? My conclusion is cheating. My other conclusion is this cheating has been going on for dacades.

Last, haiden deegan needs to make this right. Some how. He is now the kid that is in the spot light once the rest is forgotten.

If the canada dealership really yanked the kids bike then i hope their sales plummet.

 

[FCT]

Bad taste in everyone’s mouth now
Star. Shady
Deegan, not shocked
Kid, hope he isnt lying.
Yamaha. Meh. Other brands just as good

The thing i dont like is....
Wtf deegans. You just ride the bike. Star will get you on another. Stay out of it 100%.
Next, kids dad not in the room with brian deegan? Big big mistake. This is a minor and this involves cash and legalities. Kid should have walked. But since he didnt i feel there was some intimidating from star/ Yamaha/deegan/ hot head trainer.
Kid no fucking chance but to cave in.

Next, bobby reagan, owner of star said there are parts in the motor that they did not want anyone to see. Huh? So you cant buy these parts? My conclusion is cheating. My other conclusion is this cheating has been going on for dacades.

Last, haiden deegan needs to make this right. Some how. He is now the kid that is in the spot light once the rest is forgotten.

If the canada dealership really yanked the kids bike then i hope their sales plummet.

Not defending them by any means because I personally have a well educated opinion about all of them and am not a fan but….

All Factory engines have factory parts that you cannot buy. They are not cheating but a lot of R&D goes into them which means a shit Ton of money and nobody wants anyone to see inside those engines. I’m not saying Deegan isn’t a cheater but factory engines are factory engines for a reason. They are FACTORY!

 

[Javajoe]

If you can’t buy any of the parts off the shelf it’s cheating. 2nd place rider wants the bike. Things get heated at the camps at night. He ends up changing his mind due to intense pressure. They change the motor for the next days race. Shady as fuck. Deegan doesn’t need that factory shit to win. Not good ink right now with him turning pro.

 

[RiverDave]

Basically the kid had the money and went about it the right way. Claimed the bike then the Deegans and others threw their weight around and got the whole thing turned around and made things shirt for the kid.
Why even have a claiming rule if the AMA isn’t going to stand by it?

Agreed..

A simple solution for the Deegans and others that didn’t want him to claim it would have been “if all ya want to do is ride the bike.. drop the claim and go take it for as many laps as ya want after his next race.”

Probably woulda made everyone happy.. to threaten the kid and a dealership Isis crazy

 

[RiverDave]

Not defending them by any means because I personally have a well educated opinion about all of them and am not a fan but….

All Factory engines have factory parts that you cannot buy. They are not cheating but a lot of R&D goes into them which means a shit Ton of money and nobody wants anyone to see inside those engines. I’m not saying Deegan isn’t a cheater but factory engines are factory engines for a reason. They are FACTORY!

Then they shouldn’t be racing a claimer series