I know it sounds weird but....basement window wells in Phoenix

[CigAjerk]

You guys have always been great about solutions and I have a problem...

I got a call a few years ago about replacing some egress basement window wells in Tempe. I got the call because they tried "other" companies and the other companies will only do demo/excavation with excavator. Due to AC units, pools, block walls and few other obstacles hand dig was the homeowners focus. I gathered my demo crew and we assessed. Home owner agreed to more of a T&M for the project and we were off.

Homeowner and I start bullshitting about how and why it failed. I saw 2 problems, the failure was at the top corners and the runoff from the pool deck caused the ponding/failure And #2, galvy just doesn't like things here. Once the coating is gone the rust starts. The homeowner requested formed fiberglass wells. The nice part is, supplier provided engineering, egress ladders are built-in, covers are a lot lighter (powder coated aluminum). The theory is fiberglass will out last the corrugate but that's just a theory at this point.

First home owner is so pleased with the work we did he calls original contractor (who apparently installed every basement window well in the valley when the homes were built). Tells original contractor I banged it out and was reliable. Now original contractor refers all the people who call him to call me for repair/replacement if it's a candidate for hand dig.

Since the first call it's been a really good gig. My guys board up the windows, cover the drains, cut out the old well. New crew comes in and shapes. They also excavate extra on the sides to allow for reinstallation to hammerdrill and anchor into the basement walls. They set the wells, I verify placement and I'm on my way. Crew backfills/compacts and cleans up DG, pavers or whatever we needed to move to handle the replacement.

I have only seen wells that are 66" wide by 96" tall. I've replaced a bunch and walked even more. The jobs I didn't get were the people that want to patch and not replace. I'm not comfortable with patching and I don't offer solutions I cannot warrant. I walked a house yesterday that has 79" Wide x 96" Tall wells.

THE PROBLEM- Fiberglass supplier only makes 66" wide wells. A few different metal suppliers have responded to me and it appears they've all stopped 96" tall product and max height is now 84". 84" won't work cause I can't raise the bottom of the well. Egress windows dictate the "bottom" of the well and existing grade dictates the height. Any replacement needs to be 96" period.

Another problem, this particular failure is completely different than all the other wells I've seen. This is not failing from inadequate drainage. The failure on these particular well is happening down low. 5 wells, all on the same side of the house all failing at the same lower level. Condensation? I know the wells aren't filling to that height, sump pump and drains all operating properly and windows would leak with that much water.

Solutions I've discussed with different homeowner but haven't explored for multiple reasons.

1. Leave existing wells in place, clean up failing areas, make a form slightly inside and pour coating/epoxy something utilizing the form.
2. Leave existing wells in place, dig around outside about 12". Cover the backside, drop in a rebar cage, pour concrete. Demo metal after curing. Doweling into house would be a bit of issue due to the existing well flange.

The failures are all happening in the 15-20 years after build and the calls I'm getting are more frequent.

Any engineers or other contractors who have ideas is extremely welcome right now.

 

[Tank]

We have to get our retaining wall next to our house rebuilt. Kinda the same situation as the house next to us is about 5’ higher than our ground level. I’ve been told they’d dig on the back side, drop steal plates in and then build a new retaining wall either rebar cinderblock or stackable large brick. Once it’s in place remove the steal plates, fill the hole. Done.

Basically your #2 option.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Stupid roofer idea: Can you coat the backside with an aliphatic urethane, possibly even reinforced with glass matting or applied with a chopper gun?

Or...cut some large pipe in half, affix flange plates for the wall mounts and floor plate.

 

[CigAjerk]

Stupid roofer idea: Can you coat the backside with an aliphatic urethane, possibly even reinforced with glass matting or applied with a chopper gun?

Or...cut some large pipe in half, affix flange plates for the wall mounts and floor plate.

You could coat the back. Tons of work just to get to the backside of existing. Would make sense to do it before installation but I don't think it's a long term fix.

Can't affix anything to inside floor/walls due to egress codes.

I know there's maintenance that comes with homeownership but these wells are cheap to install originally but expensive as hell to replace. And depending on how many you have they cost more than a roof membrane repair and last 1/3 as long. People are shitting at the cost and if they commit to doing it, they only want to do it once in their life.

 

[RichL]

Does the Bilco product fit your need?

 

[Orange Juice]

Monarch Stone View Window Well | 1 Piece Steel Egress Well

Stone View Monarch window wells give the trusted performance of galvanized steel well with the unrivaled aesthetics of a natural-looking stone pattern.

windowwellexperts.com

 

[CigAjerk]

Does the Bilco product fit your need?

I totally forgot about this product but looked up dimensions and they're limited to 58" width.

Monarch Stone View Window Well | 1 Piece Steel Egress Well

Stone View Monarch window wells give the trusted performance of galvanized steel well with the unrivaled aesthetics of a natural-looking stone pattern.

windowwellexperts.com

These are limited to 84" Height. They have some products listed at the proper dimensions but after contacting them directly, they reached out to their specific supplier at St Paul Corrugating. St Paul rep said due to shipping restraints they are now limiting corrugated to 84" height.


The product I've used in the past is Rockwell. But I'm starting to believe nobody makes one this wide only due to shipping. The 66" wide give the LTL guys shit every time. 2 on a pallet are semi manageable. 4+ are a bitch cause the forks of a pallet jack don't have nearly enough reach. And they definitely can't spin the pallet in the truck or fit on the lift gate.

I'm also seeing an opportunity. There are approximately 640 wells at that larger size in this small community.

I can easily make the plug. Shit I may even just shoot these things myself but if only there was an industry that could manufacture something similar to this?

 

[c_land]

I totally forgot about this product but looked up dimensions and they're limited to 58" width.


These are limited to 84" Height. They have some products listed at the proper dimensions but after contacting them directly, they reached out to their specific supplier at St Paul Corrugating. St Paul rep said due to shipping restraints they are now limiting corrugated to 84" height.


The product I've used in the past is Rockwell. But I'm starting to believe nobody makes one this wide only due to shipping. The 66" wide give the LTL guys shit every time. 2 on a pallet are semi manageable. 4+ are a bitch cause the forks of a pallet jack don't have nearly enough reach. And they definitely can't spin the pallet in the truck or fit on the lift gate.

I'm also seeing an opportunity. There are approximately 640 wells at that larger size in this small community.

I can easily make the plug. Shit I may even just shoot these things myself but if only there was an industry that could manufacture something similar to this?

I bet a septic tank manufacturer could bang that out no problem. My first thought was that picture looks just like a septic tank.

 

[NicPaus]

I have only done a few here in CA. They were out of block built like a retaining wall to make engineer happy. It would cost a small fortune to replace existing with the block. Required French drains as well.

You Guys got it easy in AZ.

 

[RichL]

I have only done a few here in CA. They were out of block built like a retaining wall to make engineer happy. It would cost a small fortune to replace existing with the block. Required French drains as well.

You Guys got it easy in AZ.

From everything I read on these forums, it seems CA makes doing ANYTHING difficult and/or more expensive for you guys.

 

[CigAjerk]

I have only done a few here in CA. They were out of block built like a retaining wall to make engineer happy. It would cost a small fortune to replace existing with the block. Required French drains as well.

You Guys got it easy in AZ.

Just curious, did engineering make you step it back or just something like CMU/Rebar straight up?

And it's not exactly easy here. Most jurisdictions have some extremely mentally challenged as either gate keepers/plan check or inspectors. I did a restaurant in Tempe, the health department and city were working on 2 completely separate plumbing codes. Finally had the head health inspector tell the city to shove it up their ass and got final. Change orders on whether direct/indirect for 4 comp sink was costing the owner $ for no reason. The ROC is a complete joke. They hammer the little guys and give these national builders a green light to do whatever the hell they want.

Coming from California, there might be rules and regs there that are a headache but EVERYONE involved don't try to cut corners like they do here. And California is freakin cake compared to Vegas. Lesson learned.

 

[NicPaus]

If they were 8' probably would of had to step them back and shoring would of been required.

They were not full depth basements so the exterior wells were only 40" deep so no ladder required.

The last 5' retaining wall I built. Engineer had us put in 52" wide footings with rebar 6" OC.

I have a set of plans to bid for a 365 sq ft addition. The structural is crazy on it. His budget is 140k. Master bedroom and bathroom. Not sure I can get it done for that price and might pass on it.

 

[Joker]

To stop the water migration, I’d inject a hydrophobic or hydrophilic membrane between the panels and the soils. This could be done by running probes from the top down and creating a bladder around the wall.
Naturally, the issue is whether or not the owner has waited too long and the material has been compromised to a point that it cannot retain the soils.

 

[CigAjerk]

If they were 8' probably would of had to step them back and shoring would of been required.

They were not full depth basements so the exterior wells were only 40" deep so no ladder required.

The last 5' retaining wall I built. Engineer had us put in 52" wide footings with rebar 6" OC.

I have a set of plans to bid for a 365 sq ft addition. The structural is crazy on it. His budget is 140k. Master bedroom and bathroom. Not sure I can get it done for that price and might pass on it.

Yeah there is no room to step them back for most that I've done. A few locations I've done only have 5' from the house to the property line.

That's a tight budget just based on master bath finishes alone can go batshit plus add the structural headache.

What's really weird is the calls for random stuff right now. Like the last 4 weeks I've done more bids than I have the last 2 years. I wonder what changed?

To stop the water migration, I’d inject a hydrophobic or hydrophilic membrane between the panels and the soils. This could be done by running probes from the top down and creating a bladder around the wall.
Naturally, the issue is whether or not the owner has waited too long and the material has been compromised to a point that it cannot retain the soils.

That's what my metal guy and I were talking about yesterday afternoon. As you know, once it's started it doesn't really matter how well you fix it from the well side, if it comes from the earth, mother earth is gonna take it right back eventually. And every well we've demo'd the soil side flakes off in sheets.

 

[Joker]

Can you excavate the inside of the two corners that are deteriorating, create a footing, set a sonotube that will fit snug in that corner and tie into the footing. Strip what you can off the sonotube and dowel into that for your new walls to pour for the face and sides.
Currently, there’s nothing to tie into unless you dug down correct?

 

[Racer56]

How deep are the basements? A egress windows sill height is 42" max. Take 12" off of that for drainage leaves the bottom of the well at 30" above basement finish floor. 96" basement height minus 30" equals 66" well wall height.

 

[CigAjerk]

Can you excavate the inside of the two corners that are deteriorating, create a footing, set a sonotube that will fit snug in that corner and tie into the footing. Strip what you can off the sonotube and dowel into that for your new walls to pour for the face and sides.
Currently, there’s nothing to tie into unless you dug down correct?

The attached picture may or may not be how it's been done before. But yeah, a footing with rebar would make sense. Would be nice to dowel/epoxy rebar into the house but I believe it's only 8" thick. Someone smarter than me would have to call out what I would need. I'm not purchasing a potential failure.

Other potential problem with demo for something the size of a sonotube while existing is in place, there's usually an extra metal band at that lower level on the earth side. We've cut, grinded, sawzalled for hours only to find out excavation is the only way out.

How deep are the basements? A egress windows sill height is 42" max. Take 12" off of that for drainage leaves the bottom of the well at 30" above basement finish floor. 96" basement height minus 30" equals 66" well wall height.

This particular basement has 9' ceilings. The window egress height doesn't mean much to me though since I am not even going to entertain raising the bottom of the window height. But yeah, every one I've done, the basement windows are all the same exact dimensions and after a quick walkthrough downstairs a few times it appears as though the bottom of the windows are max 42 AFF. After dropping the wells the bottoms are 12" lower than the top of the window and the top of the well comes up to the weepscreed. Again, I can't change the window height/size and I can't mess with the grade (all but one home I've done is a track home) 5-9 side setbacks.

 

[4Waters]

You would think they would have put a sealer on both sides like a spray in bed liner or ... before install.

 

[RIVERBORN]

I’d say option 2 is the way to go for a permanent solution. I’m sure it’s pricey but it is what it is.
Is there a specific distance from the window to the ladder that is needed? Could you have a piece of metal bent to fit inside 6” or so smaller, then pour between existing and new metal?

 

[hallett21]

Drop in 3 pieces of 1/2 steel plate. Attach the side panels to the house first and weld the last piece to the other 2. That’s gotta last 20 years no?


Other than that I’d say CMU or formed wall with rebar and a water proofing that @Joker recommends.