I Have A Question That May Seem Unpopular

[monkeyswrench]

The tariffs proposed by Trump are hopefully used more as threats and bargaining chips. I'm pretty sure China needs our dollars as income. I don't know if they could stay afloat without it. That said though, we've become really dependent on them.

Of course, bringing manufacturing (and jobs) back stateside will be great. The major problem I see is the lag time. It wouldn't be just hiring people, and getting materials. Tooling and equipment will have to be acquired, or even manufactured. This is also assuming the energy limitations can be sorted out...both with the leaf lickers in office, and generating it.

Last week I paid 32$ for an oil filter that less than a year ago was expensive at 22$. I know inflation needs to be curbed, but what could happen to prices with a 20% tariff, or just no supply at all?

What say the intelligent people? I'm no guru on economics, just a guy that relies on being able to get simple things, like hardware and parts.

 

[Mack]

It’s going get more difficult over the next year food prices are going up alongside everything else try being a farmer or rancher where you have absolutely no control over you commodity prices are Input prices. Retail will keep making their margins till consumers are tapped out. Fed chair finally admitted our economy is unsustainable at these deficits and shrinking or stagnant gdp. Seems the best times are past and misery for majority of Americans are on the way. The elites running the fed are refusing to have deflation so it leaves inflation a hidden tax on everybody but felt by very few elites.

 

[lbhsbz]

The tariffs proposed by Trump are hopefully used more as threats and bargaining chips. I'm pretty sure China needs our dollars as income. I don't know if they could stay afloat without it. That said though, we've become really dependent on them.

Of course, bringing manufacturing (and jobs) back stateside will be great. The major problem I see is the lag time. It wouldn't be just hiring people, and getting materials. Tooling and equipment will have to be acquired, or even manufactured. This is also assuming the energy limitations can be sorted out...both with the leaf lickers in office, and generating it.

Last week I paid 32$ for an oil filter that less than a year ago was expensive at 22$. I know inflation needs to be curbed, but what could happen to prices with a 20% tariff, or just no supply at all?

What say the intelligent people? I'm no guru on economics, just a guy that relies on being able to get simple things, like hardware and parts.

Valid points.

There are many industries/product that are 100% China at this point....I'll use aftermarket brake rotors as the example. There isn't a single mainstream aftermarket rotor produced here anymore (some OE over-run stuff and specialty stuff yes). It makes zero sense to apply tariffs to these unless a US company is willing and able to bring production home. Find a company with the resources and willingness to tool up the plant and able to provide parts at a realistic price....then I'm all for tariffs on the import stuff. If nobody wants to bring production home, all it does is take money out of the consumer pocket and put it in the government's pocket....which may very well be the goal. Then they can cut conventional "taxes" and the ignorant masses will feel things are better.

 

[530RL]

Valid points.

There are many industries/product that are 100% China at this point....I'll use aftermarket brake rotors as the example. There isn't a single mainstream aftermarket rotor produced here anymore (some OE over-run stuff and specialty stuff yes). It makes zero sense to apply tariffs to these unless a US company is willing and able to bring production home. Find a company with the resources and willingness to tool up the plant and able to provide parts at a realistic price....then I'm all for tariffs on the import stuff. If nobody wants to bring production home, all it does is take money out of the consumer pocket and put it in the government's pocket....which may very well be the goal. Then they can cut conventional "taxes" and the ignorant masses will feel things are better.

Not a criticism but a comment on your example.

In your example, a company who is willing to compete with alternative manufacturers goes to the government and says I will put a bunch of money up to build a plant in America, but you the government has to tax my competitors so that Americans are forced to pay more for that product so I can make a buck. Even American companies, who have moved production to more efficient geographies are now subject to this tax as their product is imported. And what if it is a foreign company or a foreign investor building this plant, receiving a benefit at the expense of an American company that employs people to design, market and sell this product, even thought they do not manufacture it here?

How many products or industries should that be? Who decides in the government who gets this tax applied and who does not? Who decides in the government which businessmen get this great deal where the government protects one American business over another, or possibly favors a foreign company over an American one? Why is it better for the government to manipulate this purchase decision, versus the individual American being able to make the decision?

The tariffs proposed by Trump are hopefully used more as threats and bargaining chips. I'm pretty sure China needs our dollars as income. I don't know if they could stay afloat without it. That said though, we've become really dependent on them.

Of course, bringing manufacturing (and jobs) back stateside will be great. The major problem I see is the lag time. It wouldn't be just hiring people, and getting materials. Tooling and equipment will have to be acquired, or even manufactured. This is also assuming the energy limitations can be sorted out...both with the leaf lickers in office, and generating it.

Last week I paid 32$ for an oil filter that less than a year ago was expensive at 22$. I know inflation needs to be curbed, but what could happen to prices with a 20% tariff, or just no supply at all?

What say the intelligent people? I'm no guru on economics, just a guy that relies on being able to get simple things, like hardware and parts.

What would you presume would happen to supply and prices if millions of workers are no longer available?

 

[monkeyswrench]

What would you presume would happen to supply and prices if millions of workers are no longer available?

Obviously, no labor, no production. Limit the labor pool and there will be limited production. In my tiny view of the world, the construction industry here in town is an example. (I use the term industry loosely) There are fewer people willing to do laborious jobs. There are contractors charging obscene amounts, because they are willing to show up and do it. This is only possible due to the California influx. It is not sustainable, I do not believe.

In this case, removing China, India and some others, limits the labor pool as well. On the bright side, maybe tech help will come from native English speakers. The downside, coping with the lack of supply. If American companies were to tool up, it will take time. Existing companies could do it without government subsidies, but they won't. Most are already at capacity with their current production. Bringing in government own industry makes us China. There are a lot of interesting things that come up with this stuff. It sounds simple to cut off these countries, but it is not.

 

[lbhsbz]

Not a criticism but a comment on your example.

In your example, a company who is willing to compete with alternative manufacturers goes to the government and says I will put a bunch of money up to build a plant in America, but you the government has to tax my competitors so that Americans are forced to pay more for that product so I can make a buck. Even American companies, who have moved production to more efficient geographies are now subject to this tax as their product is imported. And what if it is a foreign company or a foreign investor building this plant, receiving a benefit at the expense of an American company that employs people to design, market and sell this product, even thought they do not manufacture it here?

How many products or industries should that be? Who decides in the government who gets this tax applied and who does not? Who decides in the government which businessmen get this great deal where the government protects one American business over another, or possibly favors a foreign company over an American one? Why is it better for the government to manipulate this purchase decision, versus the individual American being able to make the decision?


What would you presume would happen to supply and prices if millions of workers are no longer available?

Right. There are a lot of moving parts.

In my example, this (with brake rotors) began back in the late '80s or '90s when Aimco started producing inexpensive rotors in China. We had Bendix, EIS, Raybestos, Wagner, and KPM producing rotors here (Century Foundry, Waupaca, etc were involved). All 5 of these other guys got together and went to congress for help...that's when tariffs should have been imposed...but they weren't. Instead, nothing happened, and all 5 were eventually left with a choice to either go away or go to china so they could still offer parts at a competitive price.

25 years later, the gov. finally got around to imposing tariffs on Chinese brake rotors...which helped nobody and just sort of fucked everyone at that point.

 

[Chili Palmer]

We’re fucked in California when the cost of fuel goes up - that means everything will go up to compensate for the added fuel costs. So while the cost of fuel around the country goes down, California gets higher fuel and merchandise costs. Where is the outcry to remove Newsom and his CARB agency?

 

[lbhsbz]

Where is the outcry to remove Newsom and his CARB agency?

It was 4 years ago when we had a recall election….but the smooth brains loved him more than than the rest of us for some reason.

 

[Chili Palmer]

It was 4 years ago when we had a recall election….but the smooth brains loved him more than than the rest of us for some reason.

I think that election was rigged, there was so much support to remove his ass, but the results weren’t even close. I’ll go ahead and say it - non-citizens voting corrupted the outcome.

 

[fast99]

I have seen the brake rotor example in person. They are so inexpensive that labor is more to machine them. We know the quality in some cases is bad. However, customers are unwilling to pay almost double for a quality part. Off shore [not just China] automotive parts are nearly 100%. There are a few hold outs such as fan belts but not many. Might be trying to close the gate after the horse is gone.

 

[SNiC Jet]

Tariffs have proven to be one "hell of a weapon"...... but as with all weapons, they must be used responsibly. There will always be the usual naysayers, but only time will tell if this "weapon" is utilized in a responsible manner....

 

[regor]

“Tariff wars, trade wars, and technology wars go against the historical trend and economic laws, and there will be no winners,” Xi said according to state broadcaster CCTV.


“Building ‘small courtyards with high walls’ and ‘decoupling and breaking chains’ will hurt others and not benefit oneself. China has always believed that only when China is good can the world be good. Only when the world is good can China be better,” he added.

 

[monkeyswrench]

"China has always believed that only when China is good can the world be good. Only when the world is good can China be better,”

Replace "China" with most any economic or nuclear power, and that really is how a leader should lead his country. To some extent, I think Putin, Modi and Trump probably feel the same. Going to be interesting.
I did real good during Covid. Harnessed my inner Cuban to keep stuff running for guys. I hope it doesn't get like that again though.

 

[Racey]

The tariffs proposed by Trump are hopefully used more as threats and bargaining chips. I'm pretty sure China needs our dollars as income. I don't know if they could stay afloat without it. That said though, we've become really dependent on them.

Of course, bringing manufacturing (and jobs) back stateside will be great. The major problem I see is the lag time. It wouldn't be just hiring people, and getting materials. Tooling and equipment will have to be acquired, or even manufactured. This is also assuming the energy limitations can be sorted out...both with the leaf lickers in office, and generating it.

Last week I paid 32$ for an oil filter that less than a year ago was expensive at 22$. I know inflation needs to be curbed, but what could happen to prices with a 20% tariff, or just no supply at all?

What say the intelligent people? I'm no guru on economics, just a guy that relies on being able to get simple things, like hardware and parts.

Growing food has a lag time, starving is worse.

Even the journey of 1,000 miles starts with a single step....

 

[regor]

"China has always believed that only when China is good can the world be good. Only when the world is good can China be better,”

Replace "China" with most any economic or nuclear power, and that really is how a leader should lead his country. To some extent, I think Putin, Modi and Trump probably feel the same. Going to be interesting.
I did real good during Covid. Harnessed my inner Cuban to keep stuff running for guys. I hope it doesn't get like that again though.

The globalists MUST be broken, plain and simple. There will be pain, but it MUST be done.

 

[samsah33]

While not in favor of many taxes, I'm OK with tariffs that will have effects such as poking China in the eye. Yes, tariffs are taxes on consumers, but as a taxpayer I know that with certain tariffs that I'm contributing to a good cause. Same thing with immigration - I'll gladly pay an extra $.40 for my carton of strawberries if that's what it will take to ensure secure borders.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Growing food has a lag time, starving is worse.

Even the journey of 1,000 miles starts with a single step....

Ever since having kids, always made sure I kept at least enough to feed them for a month or so. As I was able to afford more, grow more and can more, that has become less of a worry. The problem, as I see it, isn't one or two households or towns. Our system relies on the machinery and technology to farm as efficiently as we do, and make food as available as it is. What parts are sourced from where? Can a cyber attack not just disable the GPS on a tractor, but destroy the ECU via the canbus?

In a few ways, when I moved out of town, that was maybe the first of many steps. There are so many things that I was not ever thinking about, and those knocked me upside the head during COVID. It was a real time show of supply chain issues.

The globalists MUST be broken, plain and simple. There will be pain, but it MUST be done.

Here's where I get confuddled. When I think of globalists, I think of the people bankrolling the wars, pushing the DEI stuff and climate BS. I wouldn't put Xi, Putin or Trump into that type of group. I don't know really how to classify them? How would tariffs harm the globalists? History has proven a weakened citizenry will follow whoever promises to be their savior. It can be a domestic leader, or a foreign entity or ideology.

I'm both curious and worried about the coming weeks, months and years.

 

[rmarion]

I think that election was rigged, there was so much support to remove his ass, but the results weren’t even close. I’ll go ahead and say it - non-citizens voting corrupted the outcome.

during election day.. ticker tally running across bottom of screen.... 400k votes removed from Elder.... not a F.ing PEEP!! from media.... just like 2020 with Trump 3x..

 

[Doc]

Energy prices need to come down asap when Trump get's back in office. It doesn't offset the tariffs 100% but it helps when we are in a trade war in a strong economy. If spending gets cut and other markets start to turn more again things will fall in place like last time. The only market really reacting right now to his win is stocks and crypto.

If we can get interest rates to a reasonable level again not 2-3 percent but 4-5.5 that will stimulate the housing markets that have slowed down but not make things out of control like they were during covid.

 

[Uncle Dave]

The tariffs proposed by Trump are hopefully used more as threats and bargaining chips. I'm pretty sure China needs our dollars as income. I don't know if they could stay afloat without it. That said though, we've become really dependent on them.

Of course, bringing manufacturing (and jobs) back stateside will be great. The major problem I see is the lag time. It wouldn't be just hiring people, and getting materials. Tooling and equipment will have to be acquired, or even manufactured. This is also assuming the energy limitations can be sorted out...both with the leaf lickers in office, and generating it.

Last week I paid 32$ for an oil filter that less than a year ago was expensive at 22$. I know inflation needs to be curbed, but what could happen to prices with a 20% tariff, or just no supply at all?

What say the intelligent people? I'm no guru on economics, just a guy that relies on being able to get simple things, like hardware and parts.

Want tariffs? Figure out where there is actually a viable American choice and tariff that.
No choice? It's just a F you tax that doesn't change what gets bought from China, or hurt them in any way - if anything they figure it out and make more money.

As a guy that buys 7-10 million in raw parts a year I'll tell you exactly what happens to a 20% tariff - you have to manage, track, account for it as a separate line item in your bill of materials so that 20% get marked up around 5X to manage and deal with it, and that 5X gets passed onto the product in terms of increased MSRP.
Price at home goes up- price abroad get double whammies because of dollar strength making the same product anywhere outside of America non competitive.

We only buy American parts whenever possible anyway even if they were more money for a number of reasons, quality, shipping cost, the ability to work wit them make subtle changes, or tweak development so both can grow.

Problem is there are only a few American parts available for just about everything made that has electronic components in it. So this is a tax that simply cannot be avoided by changing the vendor in most all cases.

It's great that it makes a steel mill somewhere more competitive, but thats a fart in a windstorm comparatively.

One chip factory in Arizona isnt going to do anything about this problem and since no one wants to build factories to make these parts & products because of all our red tape, pollution, changing political whims, high energy prices. It's going to take thousands of companies building all kinds of components to fix this and I just dont see that happening fast enough.

The way it stands now this nothing more than a tax on our goods and a slow death of companies trying to be competitive in a global market.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Want tariffs? Figure out where there is actually a viable American choice and tariff that.
No choice? It's just a F you tax that doesn't change what gets bought from China, or hurt them in any way - if anything they figure it out and make more money.

As a guy that buys 7-10 million in raw parts a year I'll tell you exactly what happens to a 20% tariff - you have to manage, track, account for it as a separate line item in your bill of materials so that 20% get marked up around 5X to manage and deal with it, and that 5X gets passed onto the product in terms of increased MSRP.
Price at home goes up- price abroad get double whammies because of dollar strength making the same product anywhere outside of America non competitive.

We only buy American parts whenever possible anyway even if they were more money for a number of reasons, quality, shipping cost, the ability to work wit them make subtle changes, or tweak development so both can grow.

Problem is there are only a few American parts available for just about everything made that has electronic components in it. So this is a tax that simply cannot be avoided by changing the vendor in most all cases.

It's great that it makes a steel mill somewhere more competitive, but thats a fart in a windstorm comparatively.

One chip factory in Arizona isnt going to do anything about this problem and since no one wants to build factories to make these parts this products because of all our red tape, pollution, changing political whims, high energy prices. It's going to take thousands of companies building all kinds of comnmponents to fix this and I just dont see that happening fast enough.

The way it stands now this nothing more than a tax on our goods and a slow death of companies trying to be competitive in a global market.

Unfortunately, that is what I see from my very small view of the world. I only work with completed items, machined parts and the like. I just see it hitting the retail purchaser very hard.

 

[530RL]

Energy prices need to come down asap when Trump get's back in office. It doesn't offset the tariffs 100% but it helps when we are in a trade war in a strong economy. If spending gets cut and other markets start to turn more again things will fall in place like last time. The only market really reacting right now to his win is stocks and crypto.

If we can get interest rates to a reasonable level again not 2-3 percent but 4-5.5 that will stimulate the housing markets that have slowed down but not make things out of control like they were during covid.

Exactly what energy prices would you expect to come down under Trump and by how much?

Maybe we could track them and check back at the progress?

 

[regor]

Here's where I get confuddled. When I think of globalists, I think of the people bankrolling the wars, pushing the DEI stuff and climate BS. I wouldn't put Xi, Putin or Trump into that type of group. I don't know really how to classify them? How would tariffs harm the globalists? History has proven a weakened citizenry will follow whoever promises to be their savior. It can be a domestic leader, or a foreign entity or ideology.

I'm both curious and worried about the coming weeks, months and years.

I'm talking business globalists and Xi benefits from them. He enslaves his population to accommodate the greedy scumbags. Xi and China are our largest threat and they must be broken economically. The scum that is the Bush/Clinton globalist clan created them and we're intent on breaking them.

Putin and Trump are definitely not globalists, they are populists.

 

[regor]

Exactly what energy prices would you expect to come down under Trump and by how much?

Maybe we could track them and check back at the progress?

We track all the time and check back with you, but you don't have the balls to wear it, so how about you fuck off?

 

[Doc]

Exactly what energy prices would you expect to come down under Trump and by how much?

Maybe we could track them and check back at the progress?

Well for starters let's start at the fuel pump. Sure, let's track them maybe I'm wrong but if I recall fuel prices under Obama were high then low with Trump then right back up with Biden. I believe even our great Newsom knows prices are coming down so he want's to impose his 65 cent tax hike so that people in Ca don't feel the increase because prices will be coming down and just put the difference in the states pocket.

To get ahead of your response before you tell me a President doesn't set fuel prices ect. I'll respond again with certain decisions and actions a president makes influences prices at the pump.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I'm talking business globalists and Xi benefits from them. He enslaves his population to accommodate the greedy scumbags. Xi and China are our largest threat and they must be broken economically. The scum that is the Bush/Clinton globalist clan created them and we're intent on breaking them.

Putin and Trump are definitely not globalists, they are populists.

Ok, kind of makes sense. The "globalists" I see as a threat here seem to be the banker types I guess. We don't enslave people by the traditional standards, we have people volunteer for it. People become slaves to debt. Not just the flashy lifestyle folks, the ones who need a credit card to cover food at the end of the month. People owe for needed medical stuff, and they have few options. Maybe not slavery, but servants without escape.

 

[530RL]

Well for starters let's start at the fuel pump. Sure, let's track them maybe I'm wrong but if I recall fuel prices under Obama were high then low with Trump then right back up with Biden. I believe even our great Newsom knows prices are coming down so he want's to impose his 65 cent tax hike so that people in Ca don't feel the increase because prices will be coming down and just put the difference in the states pocket.

To get ahead of your response before you tell me a President doesn't set fuel prices ect. I'll respond again with certain decisions and actions a president makes influences prices at the pump.

America has record energy production right now. Just wondering what you thought would go down in price to the consumer given current production rates, global supply and refinery capacity?

I thought a list with a benchmark on Jan 20th would be objective as opposed to emotional.

 

[Orange Juice]

2025 Chinese EV.
25% cheaper than a Tesla.

 

[Doc]

America has record energy production right now. Just wondering what you thought would go down in price to the consumer given current production rates, global supply and refinery capacity?

I thought a list with a benchmark on Jan 20th would be objective as opposed to emotional.

You are correct production is high right now. The difference is how much of our production is exported. I have a few friends that work at local refineries that I talk to all the time. They can produce fuel at a fraction of the cost that it cost them to make for California and ship it down to Mexico and profit way more. They even call it "dirty fuel" at the refineries.

I will honestly ask you this, isn't domestic drilling cheaper then buying over seas?

I'll also finish with this, the oil industry loves the left because they can manipulate the market and the left is ok with it because of the increased tax revenue on the higher price. This is why they have supported them in the past. They have regained their loses from the pandemic and some with out a doubt. The tide is somewhat turning though because of the increase push of "green energy". I wouldn't doubt that the industry is saying they are going to milk as much as they can while they can. More state regulations is really putting the pressure on the local refineries here in California.

 

[530RL]

I will honestly ask you this, isn't domestic drilling cheaper then buying over seas?

The market price is the market price. A domestic driller is going to sell it on the market for the highest price they can get.

Secondly, different refineries are set up for different types of crude. So just as we export a ton of domestic oil, we also import a bunch.

The mix of US crude production does not match the mix of required refinery consumption so naturally we trade with others to lower all our costs.

Unless of course tariffs are imposed and then prices will rise more for some than others depending upon the mix necessary to supply the refinery production. And those not subject to tariffs will naturally raise their prices to the new clearing price including the tariffs providing them with additional profits that the consumer will pay.

 

[regor]

Ok, kind of makes sense. The "globalists" I see as a threat here seem to be the banker types I guess. We don't enslave people by the traditional standards, we have people volunteer for it. People become slaves to debt. Not just the flashy lifestyle folks, the ones who need a credit card to cover food at the end of the month. People owe for needed medical stuff, and they have few options. Maybe not slavery, but servants without escape.

Slaves indeed.

The globalists are just an extension of government, they work together and want it all also.

 

[Doc]

The market price is the market price. A domestic driller is going to sell it on the market for the highest price they can get.

Secondly, different refineries are set up for different types of crude. So just as we export a ton of domestic oil, we also import a bunch.

The mix of US crude production does not match the mix of required refinery consumption so naturally we trade with others to lower all our costs.

Unless of course tariffs are imposed and then prices will rise more for some than others depending upon the mix necessary to supply the refinery production. And those not subject to tariffs will naturally raise their prices to the new clearing price including the tariffs providing them with additional profits that the consumer will pay.

Fair enough won't dispute that.

So basically when fuel prices at the pump began to go up the news was reporting a shortage of crude oil. Biden even took down a large portions of our reserves if we recall correctly. He also asked the middle east for more crude oil and they told him no if I remember correct.

When I was speaking with some friends down at the refinery and I asked them about the shortage they laughed. That's when they told me there was no shortage of crude at all it was just that they were exporting their fuel more because of the higher profit margins. At the same time we were coming out of covid so demand went back up but they were making more money exporting so local prices went up due to demand driving up their profits even more.

So I'll just assume that when local drilling goes up we have a higher supply and balance out the demand better for lower pricing vs the opposite and depending more on imported crude. Again, I could be totally wrong on the topic I'm just going off what I hear from friends at the refinery for what it's worth.

 

[spectras only]

2025 Chinese EV.
25% cheaper than a Tesla.

That dark blue car actually looks better to me than any Teslas. Elon better hire some designers to change the look of his current cars that reminds me of a soap holder, boring.

 

[regor]

 

[monkeyswrench]

View attachment 1458875

View attachment 1458876

Well, F' New York....and start drilling for everyone else.

 

[bonesfab]

Hochal or however you spell it can bail New york out. Dumb cunt. Besides I thought New York wanted to be green.

 

[spectras only]

Don't know what Doug Ford drinking, but it can't be healty, haha

 

[HNL2LHC]

Bring it!! Was ready for the Second Civil War. Willing to do whatever it takes to save things for the future generations……

 

[530RL]

People like getting value for their dollar. Raising the price of making a living in America seems like a misguided policy.

Harbor freight deal

Looks like a nice deal for a pretty good Icon kit from Harvor Freight. https://hftools.com/app73134

www.riverdavesplace.com

 

[lbhsbz]

People like getting value for their dollar. Raising the price of making a living in America seems like a misguided policy.

Harbor freight deal

Looks like a nice deal for a pretty good Icon kit from Harvor Freight. https://hftools.com/app73134

www.riverdavesplace.com

Techs bought nothing but Snap On / Mac / Matco before the import tools (Tekton, Gearwrench, Icon) progressed to usable quality....even with the tariffs, they'll still be considerably less expensive than the truck brands. How is that raising the price of making a living? More like not lowering it as much to have lesser quality tools. Snap-On hand tools aren't affected by the tariffs, and since the tools in your link (ICON) are made in Taiwan, they are not affected either.

What's your point?

 

[530RL]

Techs bought nothing but Snap On / Mac / Matco before the import tools (Tekton, Gearwrench, Icon) progressed to usable quality....even with the tariffs, they'll still be considerably less expensive than the truck brands. How is that raising the price of making a living? More like not lowering it as much to have lesser quality tools. Snap-On hand tools aren't affected by the tariffs, and since the tools in your link (ICON) are made in Taiwan, they are not affected either.

What's your point?

The proposed tariffs are on all imports regardless of country of origin.

If government raises the price of tools used by a worker, the worker has a higher cost of his work resulting in either a lower net to him to feed his family, or the requirement to raise prices causing all his customers to have less money for other things.

It is no different that a new regulation raising the cost of trying to make a living.

 

[lbhsbz]

The proposed tariffs are on all imports regardless of country of origin.

If government raises the price of tools used by a worker, the worker has a higher cost of his work resulting in either a lower net to him to feed his family, or the requirement to raise prices causing all his customers to have less money for other things.

It is no different that a new regulation raising the cost of trying to make a living.

Are Snap On tools made here subject to the proposed tariffs? What about Proto? Wright?

This is one particular situation, much like @Uncle Dave brought up, where there IS current production (to protect) and opportunities to bring tool manufacturing back here. This is the whole point of tariffs. There are plenty of ways to make tools here without charging Snap On prices....Craftsman did it for years, Proto / Wright and many others still do it. Tekton is actively pushing US production, they currently do some here, but are working towards more.

 

[530RL]

Are Snap On tools made here subject to the proposed tariffs?

No, only ones they import.

But think if everyone had to buy snap on tools and boxes. The number of people being able to accumulate functional tool sets and do work would be much lower as the cost of getting the tools necessary would be astronomical.

 

[lbhsbz]

No, only ones they import.

But think if everyone had to buy snap on tools and boxes. The number of people being able to accumulate functional tool sets and do work would be much lower as the cost of getting the tools necessary would be astronomical.

I did it while making $8/hr in the early 2000s. One starts with the affordable basics and upgrades as they can. That's how it's always worked. Also, there are plenty of US made options that don't demand Snap On pricing.

 

[Wedgy]

View attachment 1458875

View attachment 1458876

Do it indeed. You Canuck Morons...

 

[lbhsbz]

I have seen the brake rotor example in person. They are so inexpensive that labor is more to machine them. We know the quality in some cases is bad. However, customers are unwilling to pay almost double for a quality part. Off shore [not just China] automotive parts are nearly 100%. There are a few hold outs such as fan belts but not many. Might be trying to close the gate after the horse is gone.

Its not that labor is more to machine them....that is not the case. It's that the folks with lathes are too ignorant to understand how to do it right....so in machining an old rotor, they end up causing more damage than they solve....then they blame it on something else. I worked for and represented a company that manufactured and sold brake rotors....and I put on training classes and visited shops to show them and teach them how to properly use their brake lathes to fix brake rotors. Every shop that allowed me to do so decreased their brake judder issues by 90+%. The ones that didn't still claim all new rotors are "thin china garbage". There's nothing wrong with any of the rotors....just the installation practices and pad choice/environmental conditions that cause problems.

Ignorance is the cause of most problems that exist anywhere and with everything.

All these brake problems that I spent that last 20 years explaining how to solve?....I've not had a single one of them, because I'm not ignorant in that respect. Every other problem I've had in life has been due to my own or someone else's ignorance.

The term "ignorant" is not derogatory, it's descriptive.