How to make modern diesels live longer

[sintax]

With the recent recall just announced by Ford on the CP4 pump, I'd be running a fuel additive to avoid a complete failure. The ECU program that Ford will be doing will not be the final repair. This is just a band aid to the real issue. Ford is placing the blame on bio diesel and covid.

so let me get this straight, they plan on fixing a mechanical / materials issue with a software update?

wonder if Toyota is doing a similar software update to fix the casting flaws in their blocks.

 

[Bpracing1127]

With the recent recall just announced by Ford on the CP4 pump, I'd be running a fuel additive to avoid a complete failure. The ECU program that Ford will be doing will not be the final repair. This is just a band aid to the real issue. Ford is placing the blame on bio diesel and covid.

What recall is this?

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

I’ve seen a high idle switch as an optional accessory on GMC diesels when you’re going through the build and price tool on the website.

I assume it’s something beneficial.

 

[Bajastu]

so let me get this straight, they plan on fixing a mechanical / materials issue with a software update?

wonder if Toyota is doing a similar software update to fix the casting flaws in their blocks.

Yep, they plan on adding more cooling to the pump. Typical automotive reapir band aid. After this truck (2021 Ford F250 Tremor) , I'm done with diesel trucks. The last ECU update made my truck go from 18 mpg to 14 mpg. They said that the SCR was turned off from the factory.

 

[Bajastu]

What recall is this?

Over 295,000 trucks are recalled for the CP4. Year range is 2020-2022, affecting F250 - F600's

 

[bmill514]

I have a 2022 f250 and have had the same issue with it revving high if idled too long, scared the shit out of me when it happened. I only drive the truck on longer runs, mainly to havasu or phoenix from SoCal.
Does anyone have experience with deleting their newer diesels? Pros and cons…?

 

[Bajastu]

I have a 2022 f250 and have had the same issue with it revving high if idled too long, scared the shit out of me when it happened. I only drive the truck on longer runs, mainly to havasu or phoenix from SoCal.
Does anyone have experience with deleting their newer diesels? Pros and cons…?

I'd delete if your containment area does not regulate an annual inspection or a smog. There is no negative to a delete. I believe La Paz County does not require an annual.

 

[Justsomeguy]

I have a 2022 f250 and have had the same issue with it revving high if idled too long, scared the shit out of me when it happened. I only drive the truck on longer runs, mainly to havasu or phoenix from SoCal.
Does anyone have experience with deleting their newer diesels? Pros and cons…?

I'd delete if your containment area does not regulate an annual inspection or a smog. There is no negative to a delete. I believe La Paz County does not require an annual.

Shhhhhh pm better for these topics. We are all guilty of discussing it too. But the epa has used forum conversations to bust people.

 

[Justsomeguy]

In their case against kory Willis the epa used the duramax forum pages as exhibits against him and others. It's not even allowed to be discussed on there anymore.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Follow him on Instagram and YouTube. Guy knows his stuff.

Apparently there is a lot of controversy around this guy. There have been quite a few of his customers receive bad rebuild jobs and such.

 

[Justsomeguy]

Apparently there is a lot of controversy around this guy. There have been quite a few of his customers receive bad rebuild jobs and such.

Good to know. So cal diesel would be my go to. For machining I use l&r really happy. But if I had it built instead of doing it myself. So cal diesel hands down..

 

[pixrthis]

Watching this guys videos is like watching paint dry. If you want to drink that cool-aid by all means.

"Modern Diesel. . Is nothing more than a carbon garbage disposal that eats it's own waste. Its demise is the design, I don't care what snake-oil you use, what Youtube knuckleheads you follow or how often you change the oil it won't change this fact. They will all die the same death and all have the same emissions systems/parts failures along the way.

A clean tail pipe comes at a cost, and that's to the consumer. These Youtube clowns are only trying to make a buck on their channels trying to convince you they know how to cure cancer.

The guys spending $100,000 plus on new trucks might be interested in how to make them live. Most people agree with your take on what regurgitating their own crank case fumes will do to them but those are the cards currently being dealt. Old habits are not good for new engines and letting new owners know isn’t a bad thing. It’s great if you can delete your truck but not everyone can or wants the hassle.

 

[pixrthis]

Apparently there is a lot of controversy around this guy. There have been quite a few of his customers receive bad rebuild jobs and such.

Find me an repair shop without some negative reviews.

 

[petie6464]

The guys spending $100,000 plus on new trucks might be interested in how to make them live. Most people agree with your take on what regurgitating their own crank case fumes will do to them but those are the cards currently being dealt. Old habits are not good for new engines and letting new owners know isn’t a bad thing. It’s great if you can delete your truck but not everyone can or wants the hassle.

Sure, Unfortunately they ingest way more than just crankcase fumes.. I agree in educating unknowing owners, unfortunately the ones doing the educating are in most cases in the dark.

My advise to new diesel truck owners: Use them as how you need to; Take the depreciation on your schedule C if a business and trade in on a new unit once that's exhausted. No pun intended.

If it's not a business buy a gas truck.

 

[Racey]

I mis read that at first. Synthetic will easily go 10k +. Conventional 5-7k. Assuming you’re in something modern with efi & it’s running correctly

It’s overkill for a Duramax of the same year. Idk about anything else for that generation of truck

The oil will still lubricate but the problem is that it maxes out on the solvent ability for lack of a better term, and the engine starts building a layer of sludge over time.

More frequent changes keep this sludge at bay

 

[ToMorrow44]

so let me get this straight, they plan on fixing a mechanical / materials issue with a software update?

wonder if Toyota is doing a similar software update to fix the casting flaws in their blocks.

I have an Explorer that has an open recall due to a failure prone rear differential mount bolt. The fix: a software update that reduces power and auto applies the parking brake everytime it’s put into park Needless to say, I haven’t taken it in for the recall

 

[Cdog]

The oil will still lubricate but the problem is that it maxes out on the solvent ability for lack of a better term, and the engine starts building a layer of sludge over time.

More frequent changes keep this sludge at bay

None of what you said it wrong. But the old 3500-5k change intervals were for carb engines that had a lot of fuel contamination in the oil causing what you described above.

Efi & o2 sensors doubled the reasonable lifespan of any oil based on an engine in “normal” use.

For instance the Duramax has an excellent oil system and is known to be the easiest on oil temps. Provided you don’t have a bad injector washing a cylinder you easily go 15k miles on a synthetic oil change per dudes I spoke to when doing my head gaskets & top end.

Blackstone tests will confirm your engine & oil limits

 

[spectra3279]

My 03 has had an airbag recall since 2014. I try and get it done and my appointments magically keep disappearing.

 

[wzuber]

Over 295,000 trucks are recalled for the CP4. Year range is 2020-2022, affecting F250 - F600's

What do you recommend for a fuel pump rebuild/replace interval on an 04' LB7? Mine has 250k mi. On original pump, no current know issue. I have replaced the fpr once @ abt. 175k mi. as a precautionary measure while replacing injectors since everything was torn down already.

 

[Racey]

None of what you said it wrong. But the old 3500-5k change intervals were for carb engines that had a lot of fuel contamination in the oil causing what you described above.

Efi & o2 sensors doubled the reasonable lifespan of any oil based on an engine in “normal” use.

For instance the Duramax has an excellent oil system and is known to be the easiest on oil temps. Provided you don’t have a bad injector washing a cylinder you easily go 15k miles on a synthetic oil change per dudes I spoke to when doing my head gaskets & top end.

Blackstone tests will confirm your engine & oil limits

It's less about fuel contamination and more about the normal amounts of combusted particulate that get past the rings (breathing). These are what the oil detergents are dealing with, the varnishes and resins that are created from combustion.

Yes they will run fine at 15k intervals, but the amount of these varnishes and resins that build up at 15k intervals vs 5k intervals is quite dramatic.

If your vehicle spends a lot of time in city stop go, and idling conditions, dropping those oil change intervals helps a lot in preventing this build up.

This has nothing to do with the ability of the engine oil to perform lubrication duty, it has everything to do with managing the amount of these by products that accumulate on the interior surfaces.

 

[Bajastu]

It's less about fuel contamination and more about the normal amounts of combusted particulate that get past the rings (breathing). These are what the oil detergents are dealing with, the varnishes and resins that are created from combustion.

Yes they will run fine at 15k intervals, but the amount of these varnishes and resins that build up at 15k intervals vs 5k intervals is quite dramatic.

If your vehicle spends a lot of time in city stop go, and idling conditions, dropping those oil change intervals helps a lot in preventing this build up.

This has nothing to do with the ability of the engine oil to perform lubrication duty, it has everything to do with managing the amount of these by products that accumulate on the interior surfaces.

I fully agree. Its more about the soot accumulation than the fuel dilution with today's diesel trucks. Don't get me wrong though, fuel dilution still plays a major role in oil change intervals, but the damage caused by the EGR and the other heat building components of the emissions system is tremendous. Eating your own shit can be so harsh on an engine.

My old 2012 Ram 2500 with the Cummins would hover around 10-12% fuel dilution. We’re talking about 1 qt of fuel to 12 qts oil. The Dodge dealer would say that this was normal due to the regen and diesel dosing on the exhaust side. I would consider anything more than 2% to be labeled more than a washdown of the cylinders. The 2010-2012 Ram was one of the worst when it came to fuel dilution.

My 2021 F250 Super Duty oil samples are extremely clean compared to the Cummins . Fuel dilution is less than 2% at 5k oil changes. The soot loading is higher, resulting in the 5k oil change intervals. Waiting for your oil change light to come on is just one way to shorten the engine's life span.

 

[mash on it]

I've always done 5K oil changes.
U- Haul did the same.
Heavy towing and off road was 3.5K
Light towing and city/hwy was 5K
Unloaded hwy was 7.5K
All per Ford's owners manual.
Although it's a non-EGR (7fn3) truck.

Dan'l

 

[Badchoices03]

I have more service calls on extended idle times, improper shut down, and DEF quality than anything else with these modern diesels. This isn't a California thing either, its the EPA mandated Tier 4F / 5 EU standards that affect all new machines.

What is considered an "improper shut down"?

I use this in my tank when I fill it up, not sure if it does anything, just been doing it since I have had the truck. Anyone else using this?

 

[Bajastu]

What is considered an "improper shut down"?

I use this in my tank when I fill it up, not sure if it does anything, just been doing it since I have had the truck. Anyone else using this?

Improper shut down on most all construction equipment would mean you interrupt the turbo cool down and the DEF return to tank function. Most machines these days need about 1-2 mins to perform these functions after you shut off the key, and before you turn off the master battery switch.

If you switch off the key and immediately shut off the master battery switch, it has consequences that can put a machine into derate, and I would need to send a tech to perform override on the MCM or ECU. It’s a learning curve for the clients and a pain in the ass for me. You can teach them the proper operation on all of these units, but at the end of the day, if its Friday and the employee wants to get home and drink beers, they can give two shits when it comes to proper machine operation and shut down. On another note, I wish manufactures would remove or get rid of the regen override switch. That’s a whole other problem.

 

[wzuber]

None of what you said it wrong. But the old 3500-5k change intervals were for carb engines that had a lot of fuel contamination in the oil causing what you described above.

Efi & o2 sensors doubled the reasonable lifespan of any oil based on an engine in “normal” use.

For instance the Duramax has an excellent oil system and is known to be the easiest on oil temps. Provided you don’t have a bad injector washing a cylinder you easily go 15k miles on a synthetic oil change per dudes I spoke to when doing my head gaskets & top end.

Blackstone tests will confirm your engine & oil limits

I'm curious, do you choose Blackstones extended oil change interval test option on their report card? I do randomly on my trucks but not on my race boat eng. as I'm always changing between races anyway. I really like being able to communicate with their techs specifically on each vehicle.

 

[rivermobster]

It's less about fuel contamination and more about the normal amounts of combusted particulate that get past the rings (breathing). These are what the oil detergents are dealing with, the varnishes and resins that are created from combustion.

Yes they will run fine at 15k intervals, but the amount of these varnishes and resins that build up at 15k intervals vs 5k intervals is quite dramatic.

If your vehicle spends a lot of time in city stop go, and idling conditions, dropping those oil change intervals helps a lot in preventing this build up.

This has nothing to do with the ability of the engine oil to perform lubrication duty, it has everything to do with managing the amount of these by products that accumulate on the interior surfaces.

This. ^^^

Ener notice there there are virtually no service intervals on your differentials?

It's because there is no outside contamination going on in there. Sealed system. The lubricant basically lasts forever.

 

[Cdog]

It's less about fuel contamination and more about the normal amounts of combusted particulate that get past the rings (breathing). These are what the oil detergents are dealing with, the varnishes and resins that are created from combustion.

Yes they will run fine at 15k intervals, but the amount of these varnishes and resins that build up at 15k intervals vs 5k intervals is quite dramatic.

If your vehicle spends a lot of time in city stop go, and idling conditions, dropping those oil change intervals helps a lot in preventing this build up.

This has nothing to do with the ability of the engine oil to perform lubrication duty, it has everything to do with managing the amount of these by products that accumulate on the interior surfaces.

It’s too bad I don’t have pics of my duramax heads anymore. When I tore them down they looked like they had 10-20k miles on them with 200k on the odometer. Minimal varnish and discoloration. M1 diesel truck synthetic 8-12k mile oil changes.

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

Are diffs sealed? I thought they had vents, that can inhale moisture and even water if you dunk the hot rear axle in a cold lake launching or retrieving.

@rivermobster

 

[Cdog]

I'm curious, do you choose Blackstones extended oil change interval test option on their report card? I do randomly on my trucks but not on my race boat eng. as I'm always changing between races anyway. I really like being able to communicate with their techs specifically on each vehicle.

I sent in one sample on my 6.7 f350 around 60k miles with 8k miles on the oil. BS said I could push out oil changes past 10k +

 

[rivermobster]

Are diffs sealed? I thought they had vents, that can inhale moisture and even water if you dunk the hot rear axle in a cold lake launching or retrieving.

@rivermobster

Yes, they are vented, but there is no combstion residue being introduced, and unless you have a limited slip diff, no wear residue either.

The point racey and I are trying to make is...

Oils break down, in an ICE, due to the by products of combustion and not the oil itself deteriorating.

 

[Good Stuff]

I run a bottle of stanadyne injector cleaner once a year and dump some of their performance formula once a month

Was that regardless of outside air temp? Most of the 2000+ diesels have some sort of a high idle mode when it gets below 32°

My 05 6.0 does an elevated idle (just over 1k rpm) after a minute or so if I leave it alone after start regardless of outside temp. If I touch the brake after it enters “high” idle it won’t return to it. Seems to be a sweet spot for quick A/C or heating. It’s also prewired for a few different high idle ranges that I could connect to my factory upfitter switches.

 

[pixrthis]

Sure, Unfortunately they ingest way more than just crankcase fumes.. I agree in educating unknowing owners, unfortunately the ones doing the educating are in most cases in the dark.

My advise to new diesel truck owners: Use them as how you need to; Take the depreciation on your schedule C if a business and trade in on a new unit once that's exhausted. No pun intended.

If it's not a business buy a gas truck.

My friends and I don’t need our trucks for business but have toys a gas truck would struggle with, hard to go back to gas after experiencing the towing capabilities of a diesel pick up.

 

[OCMerrill]

The oil will still lubricate but the problem is that it maxes out on the solvent ability for lack of a better term, and the engine starts building a layer of sludge over time.

More frequent changes keep this sludge at bay

I send samples at every oil change and if they think I should change it even sooner then 10k so be it.

SOOT in the oil and ingesting it. Worst thing done to a diesel.

 

[Justsomeguy]

I was very pleased with mine when I tore it down. Intake runners were pretty clean. Pistons were clean. Everything was fairly clean. I've seen some that are just horrible for almost 200k mine looked amazing.

that was the worst of it. When I pulled the runners there was nothing on the intakes to the heads like some of the ones I've seen.

 

[wzuber]

I was very pleased with mine when I tore it down. Intake runners were pretty clean. Pistons were clean. Everything was fairly clean. I've seen some that are just horrible for almost 200k mine looked amazing. View attachment 1467516 that was the worst of it. When I pulled the runners there was nothing on the intakes to the heads like some of the ones I've seen.

It take it that's the turbo mounting pad shown there?

 

[Justsomeguy]

It take it that's the turbo mounting pad shown there?

Negative. The turbo is mounted center back of the motor. There is a y bridge and elbow that connect both intake runners from each head. The elbow connects to an intercooler pipe that goes to the intercooler. The other intercooler pipe comes off the turbo.

 

[Justsomeguy]

Hopefully these help envision how it works.
But usually those intake runners are covered in black soot. I mean nasty covered and filled.

 

[wzuber]

Negative. The turbo is mounted center back of the motor. There is a y bridge and elbow that connect both intake runners from each head. The elbow connects to an intercooler pipe that goes to the intercooler. The other intercooler pipe comes off the turbo.

Ok, thx. Glad I asked.