House build problem

[Blubyu]

Back in 2018 we had a new home built by the builder Khov. Before move in we had an inspection done and they had discovered a few issues which were all addressed expect one being our flooring. Inspector and I had said the grout was wrong, to low in several spots throughout the home and the tile was not level in many spots also. They said okay, we will take care of it at the one year mark.

One year mark rolls around, I have another inspection done they wrote up a laundry list of shit to be fixed. One of the things was the grout had cracked against the base board through the entire house. (Whole home is tile) inspector still believed the grout was low in several spots, and to soft. If you run you finger tail across it, it turns to dust. Inspector also said tile was not level in about 36 spots where there was more than a credit cards thickness difference between the two.

I give the report to the builder, they have their tile guy come out, says everything is fine. Minus the cracking. They fix the cracking with some sand caulking grout shit that was the wrong color. Ugh!

I express to the builder the color isn’t right and doesn’t match. They say that’s the color that crosses over from the grout to match, you’re SOL.

So I hire two floor contractors to come out, take a look at my flooring. They both say my flooring is out of tolerance and 30+ tile need to be replaced. They also say the grout is defective, wasn’t mixed right, or something was wrong with the powder, it didn’t harden. They agreed and said the chucking they used is the wrong color too.

I notify the builder, and ask them to re consider. They tell me to pound sand. My floor looks like shit, I’m pissed. So I complete the paper work to file a ROC compliant and CC the builder and supervisor on the email. Their tune completely changed. In two days they had the grout manufacture at my house to inspect the grout along with the JR Mcdade contractor owner to look at my flooring.

They both agree the flooring is well out of their allotted tolerance and the grout is to soft. Ultimately a meeting took place after and the resolution they came up with was my whole home needed to be re grouted and those tiles replaced.

First I was told it was going to be a three day turn around to grind the grout out, replace the needed tile, clean it and move my stuff back in. Then it turns into we’re going to need a week to get it done, that way we have a couple day buffer for any complications. Well I ended up being out of my house for 9 days. Just got back yesterday. This is what I came home to.

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[Blubyu]

Grout

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[Blubyu]

Grout is still cracked against the base boards and two different colors as they didn’t grind it up like they said. So now I have this vast difference along my walls from dark grey to light grey. House is a fucking mess. They claim learners were there from 8am-2pm. Cleaning the floors. Wiped my hand across them, my had is white. Carpet is full of grout also.

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[Blubyu]

So now what.... do I hire and attorney? File an ROC complaint? I called them immediately and sent photos, supervisor said he “thought the house looked great.”

House is supposed to go on the market next Thursday. It’s in no way a condition to be sold now. Looked better before this botched floor job

I’m so mad. Thanks for the vent sesh.


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[CLdrinker]

That looks like absolute shit.

We had our shower redone last year. Same thing grout looked like shit. Had them come out and redo it got worse. Had the owner come look and he said they would come try again. I declined and said unless you send out a different contractor I’m not interested.
Well that’s the last I heard from them and all I ever paid was for material.
I should have done it myself.

 

[CLdrinker]

So now what.... do I hire and attorney? File an ROC complaint? I called them immediately and sent photos, supervisor said he “thought the house looked great.”

House is supposed to go on the market next Thursday. It’s in no way a condition to be sold now. Looked better before this botched floor job

I’m so mad. Thanks for the vent sesh.


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Honestly, unless it’s a high end home. Don’t even worry most buyers will think it looks awesome.

 

[Blubyu]

Honestly, unless it’s a high end home. Don’t even worry most buyers will think it looks awesome.

630k home.... Don't think they will care?

 

[endobear]

My builders tile guy never grouts inside corners or dissimilar material's. Base /jams to tile. He'll use that color matched sanded Caulk. It always looks a little different.
I'd be pissed about the mess to.
And they need to fire the painter.

 

[Blubyu]

My builders tile guy never grouts inside corners or dissimilar material's. Base /jams to tile. He'll use that color matched sanded Caulk. It always looks a little different.
I'd be pissed about the mess to.
And they need to fire the painter.

The painter is another story! lol Thanks for reminding me.

 

[CLdrinker]

630k home.... Don't think they will care?

Probably.

But then again you might be surprised. I see people paying top dollar for homes in my area with mauve fucking shower enclosures lol. But they are in the 400-500 range

 

[CLdrinker]

Shouldn’t the baseboard be sitting on top of the tile and caulked?
Grout against baseboard is hideous.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

ROC complaint....but don't expect it to go anywhere if its some big box builder.

 

[coolchange]

They grouted into the base? WTF that’s as bad a job as I’ve seen.
Was this done through Home Depot?
My in laws had same issue. Laid into base. Transition elevation off . No headers. 4 inch wide tile wire a 2” long piece to finish run in a doorway transition. When I saw it I busted out laughing, told them to get get everyone over after I blue taped the fuck out of it.

 

[77charger]

Unfortunately for some home builders they want to pay as little as possible for any repairs and do them with minimum tear out to do so.weve had shower pans ruined by other trades during build and I recommend tearing while bottom half out to repair properly.
Go back to fix and just a few tiles are out in just the one area. No room to properly repair them.

 

[DaytonaBabe]

Holy hell. Wow, I would be pissed too.

Ugh, what a pain in the ass.

 

[racektm]

My builders tile guy never grouts inside corners or dissimilar material's. Base /jams to tile. He'll use that color matched sanded Caulk. It always looks a little different.
I'd be pissed about the mess to.
And they need to fire the painter.

This

 

[dspracing]

We had this sweet tile joint in the center of our kitchen backsplash days before the house was to hit the market. It's unfortunate, and I hate passing it on to the next guy but there wasn't much we could do at that point.

95% of what you see, will not be noticed by any buyer. We would all love to have the work done and walk in to a house as good or better than we left it. The sad reality is that no contractor will perform to that level.

 

[bk2drvr]

Without being in your house and seeing what you are showing us it’s hard to tell the severity. While it sucks and the work not to your standards I’d chalk it up to experience and move on. Most people standing 5-6ft tall won’t notice it at all I imagine. I’ve bought several homes and I’m pretty particular but I’m pretty sure I’d miss what you are pointing out completely. Lol... Take this experience with you on your next project. Good luck and I think you will be fine on your home sale.

 

[FasterBae]

Have heard bad things about JR Mcdade and agree looks like shit. Builders want to complete carpentry in one swoop so install doors/case/baseboards at same time then tile guys set floor tile to base. due to settling the baseboards aren’t supposed to grouted (unless using silicone grout). Due to being over a year might be a problem dependent on builders warranty. I’d talk with an attorney who specializes in construction defects

 

[Blubyu]

Without being in your house and seeing what you are showing us it’s hard to tell the severity. While it sucks and the work not to your standards I’d chalk it up to experience and move on. Most people standing 5-6ft tall won’t notice it at all I imagine. I’ve bought several homes and I’m pretty particular but I’m pretty sure I’d miss what you are pointing out completely. Lol... Take this experience with you on your next project. Good luck and I think you will be fine on your home sale.

Thanks!! We are out, I am not letting this hold us up. It just pisses me off. Their super just called me said hire your own cleaner, send me the bill.

 

[Bigbore500r]

My builders tile guy never grouts inside corners or dissimilar material's. Base /jams to tile. He'll use that color matched sanded Caulk. It always looks a little different.
I'd be pissed about the mess to.
And they need to fire the painter.

This is a good practice, never grout inside corners or between tile and wood (base).

OP - Tell the builder you want a sizable credit for this horrible work (which was never accepted by you on day 1, and was passed on for 12 months at their choosing). Tell them you will need to offer this credit to the buyer so you don't take a hit on the sale of your home. If they choose not to provide the credit, they must fix and leave the house spotless within 1 week or they are delaying the sale of your home and subject to all liability that comes with that situation.

 

[Blubyu]

This is a good practice, never grout inside corners or between tile and wood (base).

OP - Tell the builder you want a sizable credit for this horrible work (which was never accepted by you on day 1, and was passed on for 12 months at their choosing). Tell them you will need to offer this credit to the buyer so you don't take a hit on the sale of your home. If they choose not to provide the credit, they must fix and leave the house spotless within 1 week or they are delaying the sale of your home and subject to all liability that comes with that situation.

I like this in the chance the buyer notices the horrible workman ship.

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

We had tile issues with our custom build a couple years ago to and went through the ROC route as well. I guess you could follow up with the ROC inspector. if they have met the industry minimum standards there's not much you can do. The cleaning issues are B.S.

I don't know why they grouted your joint between base and tile caulk or nothing is pretty standard but that's not the main point here.

Sorry man I think at this point if your going to try to sell and someone low balls you for these issues make them put it in writing to show as evidence in court if you're going to fight it.

 

[DaveC]

I don’t understand the grout between the base trim and floor. That seems like it’s a setup for failure.

Maybe I am missing something. Has anyone seen anything like that before?

 

[CarolynandBob]

Thanks!! We are out, I am not letting this hold us up. It just pisses me off. Their super just called me said hire your own cleaner, send me the bill.

At this point I would get that in writing. Hire the best cleaners you can find. Maybe touch up the paint if you can. Then sell it.

 

[coolchange]

Shoe the base

 

[Groper]

Sorry Guy

 

[Ace in the Hole]

I don’t understand the grout between the base trim and floor. That seems like it’s a setup for failure.

Maybe I am missing something. Has anyone seen anything like that before?

Cheap builders trying to get things done as fast and cheap as possible. Trim went in first most likely...

 

[dnewps]

So now what.... do I hire and attorney? File an ROC complaint? I called them immediately and sent photos, supervisor said he “thought the house looked great.”

House is supposed to go on the market next Thursday. It’s in no way a condition to be sold now. Looked better before this botched floor job

I’m so mad. Thanks for the vent sesh.


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The box builders are scared of google reviews

 

[HBCraig]

This is a good practice, never grout inside corners or between tile and wood (base).

OP - Tell the builder you want a sizable credit for this horrible work (which was never accepted by you on day 1, and was passed on for 12 months at their choosing). Tell them you will need to offer this credit to the buyer so you don't take a hit on the sale of your home. If they choose not to provide the credit, they must fix and leave the house spotless within 1 week or they are delaying the sale of your home and subject to all liability that comes with that situation.

This

Lay out how this has hurt the value of the house currently ans how this is hurting the future sale. Explain to them there is an actual amount that is being caused by their crappy work.

 

[ElAzul]

Send him a cleaner bill for $8k

 

[Blubyu]

Meeting of the minds tomorrow morning... 8am. Flooring supervisor, building supervisor. Cleaner comes tomorrow at 11:30. Builder supervisor said he is embarrassed of the finished product.

 

[YeahYeah01]

These pictures hit a little close to home lol. Not even the quality of the actual grout job.

It's the damn mess. If you walked into the house and it was completely spotless you may have still noticed some of the grout imperfections but it wouldn't be as severe.

I'm a broken record with my guys, If you can't do the little things well like clean up and housekeeping then nobody's going to believe that you do the big things well. Leave the area cleaner than when you found it. Drives me insane lol.

It seriously is difficult to get good guys right now though.

 

[C-2]

Sorry bud, that sucks.

You can hold a developer responsible for workmanship, but not much else on a new tract development. The contract to build is usually between the developer and the builder (contractor) so the purchaser has limited recourse since they were not a party to that contract.

The good - you had two other contractors inspect for workmanship. If push came to shove you could use them as your "experts" to establish the work does not meet accepted trade standards. Obviously their opinions are arguable/rebuttable.

The bad - another contractor has touched/altered the original installation. It would be tough to file a complaint for the original work and expect a licensing board to send out an expert to inspect it for poor workmanship. The developer may still be responsible since they sent the repair/new contractor, but it's no longer cut and dry.

You still may have recourse with board, but you will need your two contractors to go to bat for you as your experts. If you go hat route, be sure to get estimates that include, demo, remove and replace.

Maybe check with the board, see if they have arbitration available for a quick resolution (quick meaning 3-6 months). Do not confuse an administrative action (with the board) vs. an arbitration clause you are most likely bound by under your purchase agreement. Arbitration via an administrative board is usually free...but you can't do both.

On color/shade differences, many construction experts I rolled with used a 6' rule - if the difference is not noticeable at 6', then the work is acceptable (paint, grout, color differences in trim, tile etc).

Good luck tomorrow morning!

 

[ford 4x429]

Sorry to say, but that floor would look great... In the house the Dan inherited WTF there doesn't seem to be any pride of accomplishment any more...sorry you gotta deal with this shit.

 

[Wedgy]

No, that floor doesn't look like Piecework at all. Lipstick will not help this Pig. The grouting is so bad I can't even tell if the Tilesetter had a backsaw and cut the door casings for the tile. 'Rip and Tear Builder's,' Take 2 did not go too well either. An Inmate suggested, Shoe the Base! A wise suggestion. Get that out of the "Builder." It's needed and only fair. In addition to whatever else is required. Your Builder's Customer Service, QC, and overall Build Supervision Sucks. That Wait One Year is BS.

 

[Mandelon]

I have been hearing about this dusty grout issue lately.

Maybe the chemicals aren't as good as they used to be. Some grouts can get too old. If the tile guy overwaters it during mixing, or retempers it.

There are lots of ways to screw up work, only a couple ways to do it well.

They should have pulled off the base, set the tile, then reinstalled the base. Did they use an alignment system? We prefer the Tile Doctor spin on style versus the wedges.

 

[Blubyu]

I have been hearing about this dusty grout issue lately.

Maybe the chemicals aren't as good as they used to be. Some grouts can get too old. If the tile guy overwaters it during mixing, or retempers it.

There are lots of ways to screw up work, only a couple ways to do it well.

They should have pulled off the base, set the tile, then reinstalled the base. Did they use an alignment system? We prefer the Tile Doctor spin on style versus the wedges.

It was crazy... rub your finger nail against it and poof, turned into dust.

Builder and the Supervisor have been blowing me up saying they will make it right. Blah blah. We will see what happens tomorrow morning. They originally told me they were re grouting the entire home. On the phone the tile tech mentioned it didn't include the grout at the baseboard because they would have had to rip all the baseboard up so they didn't do it. I said the scope of work never disclosed that it wasn't going to be done and part of the issue since the beginning was that the grout had cracked at the base board and was the wrong color. Now having the shotty repair job they just did, sections of the home they did grout against the baseboard and other sections they left the old wrong color sanded caulking.

Tomorrow should be interesting.

 

[bowtiejunkie]

We just spent a year, and over 50 appointments getting our new home to where it should have been on closing day. Almost every trade had to come back, and they all were hacks! In a hurry to do crap work, only to come back out to redo the work. Only one firm, which was just a general house repair service company actually cared about their work (they even wet swifter’ed the place on the way out). The builder paid for everything, but I lost a few years of life due to the stress and countless hours of work dealing with the trades. The painters were complete garbage. One visit to repair staircase rails, they applied a gloss gel stain to staircase railings for an unknown reason. Lmao, they had to pay for a complete staircase rebuild. I could write a book about the epic failures of trades. Took 3 call backs for electrician to punch down the CAT-6 Jack to CAT-6 cable appropriately.

I wish you luck!

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

Just remember cool heads prevail in my meeting between ROC liaison and floor contractor I started to come apart and the liaison got my attention thank God and said Mr. Mork this will be resolved to your satisfaction.


Put something in your pocket you can squeeze maybe as I'm going to guess your going to get hot!

 

[DLC]

That really sucks!

A few questions to ask during your meeting -

Ok to record this conversation if not why
Who supervised the work and the scope of work that took place during the repair process 1st and last name! The repair / fix is worse than the initial install.

LoL

Keep in mind you are just the home owner - their customer - they are the professional and know their business, they chose HOW and WHEN they wanted to fix this
They continue to make their problem your problem by not properly addressing this. To say a cleaning crew was there to clean is an absolutely lie! The home should have been spotless

The base and door jams now need to replaced, instead of fixing existing KNOWN issues they are creating new issues that now need to be fixed on top of the original existing issues.

The paint looks like ass! No crisp cut in lines your going to need paint after the base and door casing get replaced....

The cleaning company needs to be fired and out of business.



If they think that is fixed it really makes you wonder what took place inside your home while you were gone. To bad you didn’t have any nanny cams!

 

[Your ad here]

All of the issues are pretty common with new or remodel builds. I ran into this on every single dealership the company I worked for built but that was in Ca. Sometimes it was easy and sometimes a little painful to get the stuff fixed but not uncommon to have to have tiles replaced and grout touched up. I take it you're in Az? Honestly I wouldn't expect anything to be finished nice or correctly. Just something about Az that I've noticed here the past 2 years. It really sucks.
Had a tile installer installing wall tile on a job and noticed is was crooked. Told him to check it out and he said it was okay. Got my laser out and showed him. I told him to stop when he was less than a 1/4 done. He didnt listen and kept installing. Called his boss that day to meet me the following morning. Next morning all the tile was up and crooked. Guys boss lost his shit and ripped the guy a new one. Installer just acted like this was normal. 40 boxes of wall tile just wasted.
Look at the t bar ceilings in buildings out here and concrete details are just awful.

 

[DLC]

That’s a rare skill set the installer had! Dedication.... why fuck up just a little bit, when you have an opportunity to REALLY fuck it up, BIGLY !

LoL



QUOTE="Your ad here, post: 4129086, member: 16474"]
All of the issues are pretty common with new or remodel builds. I ran into this on every single dealership the company I worked for built but that was in Ca. Sometimes it was easy and sometimes a little painful to get the stuff fixed but not uncommon to have to have tiles replaced and grout touched up. I take it you're in Az? Honestly I wouldn't expect anything to be finished nice or correctly. Just something about Az that I've noticed here the past 2 years. It really sucks.
Had a tile installer installing wall tile on a job and noticed is was crooked. Told him to check it out and he said it was okay. Got my laser out and showed him. I told him to stop when he was less than a 1/4 done. He didnt listen and kept installing. Called his boss that day to meet me the following morning. Next morning all the tile was up and crooked. Guys boss lost his shit and ripped the guy a new one. Installer just acted like this was normal. 40 boxes of wall tile just wasted.
Look at the t bar ceilings in buildings out here and concrete details are just awful.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Instigator]

The lawyers will be the big winners in this deal.
Sorry about your situation man but several things could have been done differently to TRY and correct the problem. You should have just listed the house as it was and given an agreed upon credit/discount on the sales price to the buyer if they had an objection as they will likely change the flooring anyways.
The house isn't a Piano and frankly you as the seller will always be much more critical of the house as you have been in it longer than ANY prospective buyer will be before they own it.
I have built and sold several homes and learned the hard way not to point out the small imperfections that only I was aware of and so I decided to STOP pointing them out myself. Life has been Much Better since then for me.

 

[Livewire Fabworks]

In new construction in So Cal and now followed in many states baseboards are set before flooring. As mentioned before this is done this way because it saves the trim company from making multiple trips. Most builders will have the flooring companies grout up to the baseboards and most flooring companies will cover grout cracks for the first year of ownership.

As far as the soft grout or dusting this can be caused by a defect in the material or the guy grounting mixing it to thin/wet or over washing it. This can also cause the pocketing you have in one of your pictures.

With plank style tiles you are going to get some lippage due to the tiles warping when fired which is why they don't recommend running more than a 1/3 stagger. Looks like they followed a 1/3rd stagger but lipase still only be within a credit card and it looks like the material has a pillowed edge which usually helps with the feeling of lippage.

With a said and done if it is out of tollerance and you had soft grout this should have been addressed right up front and not a year latter. Depending on square footage they probably should have ripped the floor out and redone it. If the soft grout was a defect the contractor could have gone to the grout manufacturer to pay for the replacement. If it was on the contractor then it is his bill to pay.

For the paint and baseboard now, once the repairs are done correctly the builder should be on the hook for the repairs. He will then backstage the flooring contractor for the repairs.

When all is said and done it is you home and needs to be right. At the same time you have to be reasonable which sounds like you are.

 

[wallnutz]

The lawyers will be the big winners in this deal.
Sorry about your situation man but several things could have been done differently to TRY and correct the problem. You should have just listed the house as it was and given an agreed upon credit/discount on the sales price to the buyer if they had an objection as they will likely change the flooring anyways.
The house isn't a Piano and frankly you as the seller will always be much more critical of the house as you have been in it longer than ANY prospective buyer will be before they own it.
I have built and sold several homes and learned the hard way not to point out the small imperfections that only I was aware of and so I decided to STOP pointing them out myself. Life has been Much Better since then for me.

Good advise here.

Except I would raise the price a few grand and be willing to discount if they started picking it apart.

 

[Livewire Fabworks]

With a that said you need to hold your ground tomorrow since the repairs were not done correctly. Not sure how a contractor or builder could stand behind that work .

 

[Paradox]

630k home.... Don't think they will care?

Fully sympathize and it does look like they are screwing you around.

That said, it is an amazing market. If your home is priced within reason, wouldn’t surprise me if you get multiple offers (immediately), over asking, sight unseen, perhaps with all contingencies waived up front.

 

[Boat Bling]

Fully sympathize and it does look like they are screwing you around.

That said, it is an amazing market. If your home is priced within reason, wouldn’t surprise me if you get multiple offers (immediately), over asking, sight unseen, perhaps with all contingencies waived up front.

This X2. Lots of great input from the pros on here and I'm sure you'll get it handled tomorrow. I can share a little experience having been part of 3 real estate transactions in the past year (2 since April F-me lol) and the Phx market along with every other suburb is absolutely bananas right now.

My $.02, clean it top to bottom, spend a couple days touching up the major screwups, make sure your realtor has a pro that takes excellent photos showcasing the unique attributes of the home, twilight shots, lighting, etc and list it at a realistic price. You'll have 10+ offers and your pick of the best at 10% over ask, as-is with all contingencies waived. Most showings are 30min or less right now & buyers are lined up. I know, I was one of them a couple months ago competing against 20-30+ other offers on every property we looked at

Thankfully on the opposite side now selling the GFs townhome. Just went under contract at 12% over ask with multiple well qualified backups.

Like I said, just my $.02 having experienced this crazy market 1st hand and have no skin in the game. IMO don't let them drag this out and delay listing. Who knows how long it will last.

-Zack

 

[Looking Glass]

So now what.... do I hire and attorney? File an ROC complaint? I called them immediately and sent photos, supervisor said he “thought the house looked great.”

House is supposed to go on the market next Thursday. It’s in no way a condition to be sold now. Looked better before this botched floor job

I’m so mad. Thanks for the vent sesh.


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YES!!, I was going to say that it went from ? To Worse. I feel for you, thee Quality of workmanship these days is a Coin Toss.