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Home generator transfer switch?

BabyRay

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Sam just did my neighbors. He quoted him $780, plus there was another piece he had to order so all in it was like 1000-1100 (can’t remember exactly). Basically exactly what your pic was. Not sure I’ll do it. I like the extension cord method I have going on lol.
I had a manual transfer switch at my cabin, and it had a master switch, and the circuits were either on or off. From the picture, it appears the transfer switch actually has no master switch, and the circuits can be switched between utility, generator power, or off, individually. If so, that would offer the advantage of leaving a circuit ready to come back when utility power is restored. Is this assumption correct?
 

Done-it-again

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Sam just did my neighbors. He quoted him $780, plus there was another piece he had to order so all in it was like 1000-1100 (can’t remember exactly). Basically exactly what your pic was. Not sure I’ll do it. I like the extension cord method I have going on lol.
same breaker box and HD has the set up for around $460 and little cheaper from Amazon. Hugo is little cheaper at $650 and takes about 2-3 hours with testing...
 

Motoxxxloak

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I had a manual transfer switch at my cabin, and it had a master switch, and the circuits were either on or off. From the picture, it appears the transfer switch actually has no master switch, and the circuits can be switched between utility, generator power, or off, individually. If so, that would offer the advantage of leaving a circuit ready to come back when utility power is restored. Is this assumption correct?
Honestly I am not sure.
 

CarolynandBob

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Has anyone installed a generac on their own? I think I saw them at Costco. I do not remember the exact price. but was in the 6-7k range. My parents got a quote and it was something like 17k installed. Installation doesn't seam that big of deal. For background I wired my shop up with 200 amp service, A/C and RV hook-up. Did get help from @Taboma.
 

Taboma

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Has anyone installed a generac on their own? I think I saw them at Costco. I do not remember the exact price. but was in the 6-7k range. My parents got a quote and it was something like 17k installed. Installation doesn't seam that big of deal. For background I wired my shop up with 200 amp service, A/C and RV hook-up. Did get help from @Taboma.
I believe that this question could be best answered if you view a sampling of the many threads on various HVAC contractor repair and or replacement costs and how
those charges are factored and justified. 🥴 ;)
Have you considered what I would have charged a client for the extensive engineering service I provided as part of your RDP Benefit Package ? 🤣

I know, that you know what it would have cost you had you not performed a shit-ton of DIY trenching, conduit install and wiring. You saved a lot, even in Tennessee where I'm sure wages and overhead are less than here in CA --- or well, not sure where your dad is located.


More seriously, I'm sure @hallett21 could provide a better cost estimate, since he installs Generac. My son might as well, although he's not installing Generac any longer and has switched to Kohler when he became frustrated by Generac's lack of warranty response, since many of his customers are commercial or agricultural.

I know in some of my Son's jurisdictions just the permit phase is a huge pain in the ass. Some areas required sound walls or shields, others engineered drawings, and approval from the power company.
Also of course location of the genny, service, circuits if there's sub-panels involved, some are simple, some are anything but.
 

BigQ

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same breaker box and HD has the set up for around $460 and little cheaper from Amazon. Hugo is little cheaper at $650 and takes about 2-3 hours with testing...

Do you know Is he only in the Fontana area? Need to get someone out to Yucaipa.
 

hallett21

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I believe that this question could be best answered if you view a sampling of the many threads on various HVAC contractor repair and or replacement costs and how
those charges are factored and justified. 🥴 ;)
Have you considered what I would have charged a client for the extensive engineering service I provided as part of your RDP Benefit Package ? 🤣

I know, that you know what it would have cost you had you not performed a shit-ton of DIY trenching, conduit install and wiring. You saved a lot, even in Tennessee where I'm sure wages and overhead are less than here in CA --- or well, not sure where your dad is located.


More seriously, I'm sure @hallett21 could provide a better cost estimate, since he installs Generac. My son might as well, although he's not installing Generac any longer and has switched to Kohler when he became frustrated by Generac's lack of warranty response, since many of his customers are commercial or agricultural.

I know in some of my Son's jurisdictions just the permit phase is a huge pain in the ass. Some areas required sound walls or shields, others engineered drawings, and approval from the power company.
Also of course location of the genny, service, circuits if there's sub-panels involved, some are simple, some are anything but.

Generator and transfer switch are like 7-8k.

Depending on what the main panel looks like you’ve got 3-7k in electrical labor.

Figure another 1-5k in plumbing depending on where gas is located.

Sight unseen I tell people 20-25. I’ve had them as high as 40k because of 100+ ft runs etc.

Generac sucks (as far as support) in my opinion. I try to push the Koehler or Cummins units but a lot of people want what their neighbors have 🤷🏼‍♂️. Generac work and get the job done but its pretty much up to the installer to fix any issues because they aren’t very helpful.
 
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TX Laramie

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I'd appreciate some initial guidance on what direction I should be looking at in a situation where no nat gas or room for large LP is possible.

Assuming I can small generator for a room AC window unit and probably the fridge, but probably not running both at the same time.

Ideally, I like something large enough to run the 1800 Sq. Ft., house, but I'm not sure that's possible without a full size standby gen like Cummins or Koehler
 

hallett21

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I'd appreciate some initial guidance on what direction I should be looking at in a situation where no nat gas or room for large LP is possible.

Assuming I can small generator for a room AC window unit and probably the fridge, but probably not running both at the same time.

Ideally, I like something large enough to run the 1800 Sq. Ft., house, but I'm not sure that's possible without a full size standby gen like Cummins or Koehler

Honda 7,000 will run an entire house minus AC (can be done on smaller units). Window AC no problem.

Honda 3000 will run lighting (LED fixtures), fridge, TV, Internet, coffee maker and a few convenience outlets.

You can also get the Predator equivalents however I have no experience with them.

Reliance makes generator specific sub panels for the above that are 100% safe for users and utility workers.
 
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brianwhiteboy

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Honda 7,000 will run an entire house minus AC (can be done on smaller units). Window AC no problem.

Honda 3000 will run lighting (LED fixtures), fridge, TV, Internet, coffee maker and a few convenience outlets.

You can also get the Predator equivalents however I have no experience with them.

Reliance makes generator specific sub panels for the above that are 100% safe for users and utility workers.
That’s the combo I have…Honda EU7000 and the Reliance 310A 👍
 

Done-it-again

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I'd appreciate some initial guidance on what direction I should be looking at in a situation where no nat gas or room for large LP is possible.

Assuming I can small generator for a room AC window unit and probably the fridge, but probably not running both at the same time.

Ideally, I like something large enough to run the 1800 Sq. Ft., house, but I'm not sure that's possible without a full size standby gen like Cummins or Koehler
This is the unit I bought my MIL. Can run all different fuels.


 

Taboma

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Honda 7,000 will run an entire house minus AC (can be done on smaller units). Window AC no problem.

Honda 3000 will run lighting (LED fixtures), fridge, TV, Internet, coffee maker and a few convenience outlets.

You can also get the Predator equivalents however I have no experience with them.

Reliance makes generator specific sub panels for the above that are 100% safe for users and utility workers.
Bought a Costco Firman 3200W/4000 dual fuel and it works great ---- so far.
My one complaint however is frustrating, the clowns installed a 30 Amp, 2-Pole 3W TT receptacle, instead of a twist lock NEMA 5-30R, so as the unit runs it naturally has some vibration --- the vibration gradually allows the damned plug to fall out. 🤦‍♂️ So I've got a straps rigged to bind the plug so it can't vibrate out. 😡
 

DarkHorseRacing

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Can you convert a gasoline generator to propane? I bought mine when they didn't have dual/tri/fuel options. Treating the generator like a propane BBQ sounds appealing.

Obviously you take a risk of fueling a gas generator while its running, and with propane you have to disconnect the fuel source to swap bottles so you have to shut it down anyway.

Mine is a Coleman with a Kohler engine.
 

4Waters

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Can you convert a gasoline generator to propane? I bought mine when they didn't have dual/tri/fuel options. Treating the generator like a propane BBQ sounds appealing.

Obviously you take a risk of fueling a gas generator while its running, and with propane you have to disconnect the fuel source to swap bottles so you have to shut it down anyway.

Mine is a Coleman with a Kohler engine.
There are kits available, you just have to do search for your generator to see if one is available
 

CarolynandBob

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I believe that this question could be best answered if you view a sampling of the many threads on various HVAC contractor repair and or replacement costs and how
those charges are factored and justified. 🥴 ;)
Have you considered what I would have charged a client for the extensive engineering service I provided as part of your RDP Benefit Package ? 🤣

I know, that you know what it would have cost you had you not performed a shit-ton of DIY trenching, conduit install and wiring. You saved a lot, even in Tennessee where I'm sure wages and overhead are less than here in CA --- or well, not sure where your dad is located.


More seriously, I'm sure @hallett21 could provide a better cost estimate, since he installs Generac. My son might as well, although he's not installing Generac any longer and has switched to Kohler when he became frustrated by Generac's lack of warranty response, since many of his customers are commercial or agricultural.

I know in some of my Son's jurisdictions just the permit phase is a huge pain in the ass. Some areas required sound walls or shields, others engineered drawings, and approval from the power company.
Also of course location of the genny, service, circuits if there's sub-panels involved, some are simple, some are anything but.

LOL I am sure I would not be able to afford you. Yes I did a bunch of DIY, as you remember I wanted to make sure everything was to code. Your help was very appreciated.

This new idea. I could put the generator ( no I am not sold on Generac) on one side of the garage. The panel is on that side of the garage wall and the natural gas is there also. IF I put it there it would decrees the expenses, as I wouldn't need as much conduit, wire, gas lines extra. The problem I have with that is it is near the front door. I am not worried about the noise of it as only the guest bedroom/bathroom would be near it. Not sure a generator near the front door would be very good looking.

With that said I do have natural gas on the other side of the garage via the water heater. Not sure if there would be a volume issue taping into that. Then I would have the expense of running the wires up and through the attic of the garage to get to the panel. The nice thing about doing that is the generator would be kind of hidden. There is a large open are next to my house, so the noise wouldn't bother anyone.

Yes I could get the above mentioned Honda 7000 and put a portable a/c unit in the master bedroom. I really would like the generator to be able to run the house a/c as it gets pretty hot here in FL during hurricane season. I am assuming I would need 50 amps to do that. Could I run 2 Hondas in parallel to achieve the need amps? When hurricane milton hit the power at that house was out less than a day. All of the lines near that house are underground as it is a newer area. I worry about the overhead lines feeding the underground lines.

The other thing I am wondering is if I need this at all. I still have the place in North Sarasota that has a 2.0 ton a/c. (place is small) and is on a 30 amp breaker. No natural gas there, but do have propane. Maybe a 7000 watt unit would be better there.
 

Xring01

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To every one this thread.

There are many many many things being discussed….

Whats not being discussed is the “Safety” and the “Codes” and why those codes/requirements exist.
The true home back up generators whether its Generac/Kohler and others are the ones that are “Certified” to meet those codes.
I will not get into all of them.
One of those codes is literally the distance the generator can be to your house, again for fire purpose reasons.
Other codes are all about CO emissions. Installers are looking at how close the exhaust is to a window..

These are some of the reasons why I stated earlier that you should use a home back generators, NOT PORTABLES like Honda 7000s in a home back up situation. Portables put out alot higher volume/ratio of CO than certified units…

Please google how many deaths per year their are, for people using Portables in unsafe manners in emergency situations.

I am stating all of this, because this can kill you and your loved ones, if its not done correctly. Thats a fact jack.

CO and Fire’s - Do your research, install a safe system, please do not put your loved ones in danger is all I am saying.
 

Taboma

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LOL I am sure I would not be able to afford you. Yes I did a bunch of DIY, as you remember I wanted to make sure everything was to code. Your help was very appreciated.

This new idea. I could put the generator ( no I am not sold on Generac) on one side of the garage. The panel is on that side of the garage wall and the natural gas is there also. IF I put it there it would decrees the expenses, as I wouldn't need as much conduit, wire, gas lines extra. The problem I have with that is it is near the front door. I am not worried about the noise of it as only the guest bedroom/bathroom would be near it. Not sure a generator near the front door would be very good looking.

With that said I do have natural gas on the other side of the garage via the water heater. Not sure if there would be a volume issue taping into that. Then I would have the expense of running the wires up and through the attic of the garage to get to the panel. The nice thing about doing that is the generator would be kind of hidden. There is a large open are next to my house, so the noise wouldn't bother anyone.

Yes I could get the above mentioned Honda 7000 and put a portable a/c unit in the master bedroom. I really would like the generator to be able to run the house a/c as it gets pretty hot here in FL during hurricane season. I am assuming I would need 50 amps to do that. Could I run 2 Hondas in parallel to achieve the need amps? When hurricane milton hit the power at that house was out less than a day. All of the lines near that house are underground as it is a newer area. I worry about the overhead lines feeding the underground lines.

The other thing I am wondering is if I need this at all. I still have the place in North Sarasota that has a 2.0 ton a/c. (place is small) and is on a 30 amp breaker. No natural gas there, but do have propane. Maybe a 7000 watt unit would be better there.

As far as the install, I'm confident you're capable of either doing most of the install yourself, or hiring the help and providing supervision to get it accomplished.
I haven't a clue how your county or city governs these types of installations in regards to any permitting requirements.
I'd think that the addition of a permanent and sufficiently sized generator would be a welcomed asset to your property given the challenges the weather can present.
I've always found that having a contractor meet with you to discuss your project can be quite enlightening and educational. 😁;) This would also give you the opportunity to discuss their willingness to perform a more limited role rather than turn key.
You could discuss the gas line as an example ---- Although those requirements can be found rather easily online ---- and unless your attic access is limited or constrained, I can't imagine that being to challenging and would be desired with either type of generator scenario.
The Honda 7KW's can be linked in parallel, but remember, given your weather challenges and when they'd be used, I wouldn't want them and the required 50A combiner outlet to be exposed to a deluge of rain and wind.
 

Done-it-again

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How is this generator as far as noise level?
It’s not like a Honda 3000, but not like a harbor freight unit either. Your neighbor will hear it. But when everyone is running some sort of generator and the wind is blowing 40-50 sustainable the generator noise gets blended in.

Now camping in the desert and running it all night, people in your camp will complain.

We ran the same unit in Florida after Ian.
Ran the pool, the whole house, 2 portable ac. But ran on gas not NG.

IMG_5370.jpeg
 

Taboma

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To every one this thread.

There are many many many things being discussed….

Whats not being discussed is the “Safety” and the “Codes” and why those codes/requirements exist.
The true home back up generators whether its Generac/Kohler and others are the ones that are “Certified” to meet those codes.
I will not get into all of them.
One of those codes is literally the distance the generator can be to your house, again for fire purpose reasons.
Other codes are all about CO emissions. Installers are looking at how close the exhaust is to a window..

These are some of the reasons why I stated earlier that you should use a home back generators, NOT PORTABLES like Honda 7000s in a home back up situation. Portables put out alot higher volume/ratio of CO than certified units…

Please google how many deaths per year their are, for people using Portables in unsafe manners in emergency situations.

I am stating all of this, because this can kill you and your loved ones, if its not done correctly. Thats a fact jack.

CO and Fire’s - Do your research, install a safe system, please do not put your loved ones in danger is all I am saying.
What you say is true and the reason the cost of products and projects have escalated dramatically during my 77 years on this rock.
We spend far to much money protecting the dumb-asses in defiance of the basic "Laws of Nature".

Take a look around, we've spent multiple billions if not trillions in an attempt to make every product and device in our homes "Idiot Proof".
It's takes an instruction book just to open a bottle or package, you can't plug in your vacuum because the receptacle is "Tamper Proof", or the circuit breaker trips because the motor made a spark. I've hurt myself worse opening a package then I ever have from the product it's protecting.

We could write volumes on the vast array of safety features we're paying for in our modern automobiles, and most of those are the source of our vehicle reliability issues.

What's a "Fact Jack", is that mankind is wasting far to much money protecting those who despite our best efforts to keep them alive and from harm, are still costing us more by simply remaining alive, thanks to their continuing cry demanding yet even more protection from harm.
F*ck Em 👍👍👍😈
 
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hallett21

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To every one this thread.

There are many many many things being discussed….

Whats not being discussed is the “Safety” and the “Codes” and why those codes/requirements exist.
The true home back up generators whether its Generac/Kohler and others are the ones that are “Certified” to meet those codes.
I will not get into all of them.
One of those codes is literally the distance the generator can be to your house, again for fire purpose reasons.
Other codes are all about CO emissions. Installers are looking at how close the exhaust is to a window..

These are some of the reasons why I stated earlier that you should use a home back generators, NOT PORTABLES like Honda 7000s in a home back up situation. Portables put out alot higher volume/ratio of CO than certified units…

Please google how many deaths per year their are, for people using Portables in unsafe manners in emergency situations.

I am stating all of this, because this can kill you and your loved ones, if its not done correctly. Thats a fact jack.

CO and Fire’s - Do your research, install a safe system, please do not put your loved ones in danger is all I am saying.
Hondas are CO certified and will shutdown if there is too much CO in the air.

Unfortunately permanent standby units just showed their ultimate weakness in Malibu, utility shutdown the gas supply.

Even if you had a propane tank on property a lot of these homes are coming on day 7 of no power. Generac, Kohler etc are anything but fuel efficient.
 

hallett21

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Here’s a 10kw Generac fuel consumption specs.

IMG_6293.png



And here is 22kw unit.

IMG_6294.png
 

c_land

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Generator and transfer switch are like 7-8k.

Depending on what the main panel looks like you’ve got 3-7k in electrical labor.

Figure another 1-5k in plumbing depending on where gas is located.

Sight unseen I tell people 20-25. I’ve had them as high as 40k because of 100+ ft runs etc.

Generac sucks (as far as support) in my opinion. I try to push the Koehler or Cummins units but a lot of people want what their neighbors have 🤷🏼‍♂️. Generac work and get the job done but its pretty much up to the installer to fix any issues because they aren’t very helpful.
So a lot more cost effective to just install a transfer switch and then wheel out a potable generator for an existing house?
 

Taboma

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Yes. It’s still needs to be installed legally (code compliant) and fueled in a safe manner.
How happy do you suppose the Honda gen-sets or other portables are sitting outside during a Hurricane being deluged by multiple inches of rain and howling wind ?

Or during a blizzard ?
 

DarkHorseRacing

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Its also important to realize that when discussing tri-fuel gensets, the starting and running ratings vary depending on the fuel.

The highest rating numbers will always be with gasoline. NG and LP are lower, with one of them being lowest (I don't remember which).

So if you are buying a specific rating be sure to investigate the rating for the specific fuel you have in mind.
 

hallett21

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How happy do you suppose the Honda gen-sets or other portables are sitting outside during a Hurricane being deluged by multiple inches of rain and howling wind ?

Or during a blizzard ?

I think the 7,000 would hang. It has rubber gaskets all the way around and the only “opening” is for the exhaust. So assuming water didn’t pour into the exhaust I think you’d be good.
 
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Taboma

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I think the 7,000 would hang. It has rubber gaskets all the way around and the only “opening” is for the exhaust. So assuming water didn’t pour into the exhaust I think you’d be good.
Well you might have to figure out how to bag the receptacle, ehhhh ?
 

adam909

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So a lot more cost effective to just install a transfer switch and then wheel out a potable generator for an existing house?
Transfer switch and generator is the best and cheapest way to power your home for a couple days. You can have a set up for 1,500 and have emergency power when needed. I just got my power restored after being off for 60 hours. My yamaha 3200 invernter powered my entire house minus the A/C and washer and dryer the entire time.
 

4Waters

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This guy has a great setup. Worth the watch if you live in a fire prone area.

The problem is that the wind would relocate that airborn water somewhere else. Drill small holes in the pipe and let the water run down the roof and keep the gutters and anything in the gutters wet. Sprinklers on the known/normal up wind side might help
 

Taboma

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This guy has a great setup. Worth the watch if you live in a fire prone area.

Meanwhile that whirlybird attic vent and probably other older non-fire/ember approved attic vent types are going to cause his home to burn from the attic down, roof sprinklered or not.
You need not watch to many live helo fire videos to notice home's attics starting to burn and smoke stating to billow out, before any surrounding landscaping is.
 

Done-it-again

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This guy has a great setup. Worth the watch if you live in a fire prone area.

Meanwhile that whirlybird attic vent and probably other older non-fire/ember approved attic vent types are going to cause his home to burn from the attic down, roof sprinklered or not.
You need not watch to many live helo fire videos to notice home's attics starting to burn and smoke stating to billow out, before any surrounding landscaping is.
How would that sprinkle system work with low water pressure?
 
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