Hiring skilled labor.

[Shlbyntro]

I always preferred to be 1099 and asked for it from several previous "employers"

I could write off my truck(s), tools, fuel, etc etc. and it meant more in my pocket at the end of the day.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

I always preferred to be 1099 and asked for it from several previous "employers"

I could write off my truck(s), tools, fuel, etc etc. and it meant more in my pocket at the end of the day.

Agreed in some circumstances… when I was red lining selling solar I wanted to be 1099 so I could write off all my advertising etc. but if somebody doesn’t have the write offs they wind up being taxed out more than they would have otherwise which is what it sounds like in this case

 

[Xring01]

I still get contacted by head hunters from time to time, maybe go that route. A head hunter is actually what initially brought me out to TX.

I've had quite a few opportunities present themselves to me the last couple years including just recently but the pay hasn't been there. I think in any skilled trade, you're going to have to offer at least double what unskilled jobs are paying in the area to start

good luck!

I had an entire thread about head hunters and people after my ass,
After I accepted the new job, put in my resignation…
The old company threw alot of $$$ and large promotion at me to stay… thats not as good as it sounds, put me in bad position on lots of fronts. Again and entire thread about it..

I get hit up my recruiters/head hunters at least 3x a week on Linked In. But I am in the Electric Power/Utility sector, which is exploding right now.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

I get hit up my recruiters/head hunters at least 3x a week on Linked In. But I am in the Electric Power/Utility sector, which is exploding right now.

I'm in the Solar distribution/Solar finance side of the energy industry. 14 years deep at this point. Same thing..at least a few a week. It's crazy.

 

[Xring01]

My guys are all 1099 employees. I cover their liability insurance and workman's.
comp.
In the 1st few years of business it made the most sense. I couldn't keep all my "seasonal help" busy year round. I did have my core 2-3 guys that I kept busy year round. Alot of guys were seasonal. Hire and fire until i get a decent one. March-November. My "full time" employees preferred to be 1099s.

May need to really think about getting on the books. It's just going to raise my rates even more but maybe attract a better worker?

Probably not. But I need to do something.

If you are in CA,
Be very very carefull with 1099 employees…

Ca will eventually look into it, if the primary source of your 1099 employee’s income is you, then they may come after you for un employment insurance and penaltys…

I AM NOT JOKING, I AM SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE… This is another reason why lots companys are fleeing CA.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

I had multiple offers from different firms a few weeks ago when I made my decision… there were many factors I was looking at but health coverage was a major deciding factor in where I went. It’s a huge deal anymore because of the cost..

Unless it was just stupid money I would never even look at a 1099 offer unless I was breaking out on my own again…

This right here.

With my experience I would be considered higher o n the skilled scale than most in my trade. I've changed jobs more than I really cared for the last 10 years or so and what I look for in an offer has definitely evolved. I learned the hard way that health insurance is as much or more important than the actual pay rate. Now when I'm looking at or entertaining a job offer, I consider the ENTIRE package, including PTO. That is the same with anyother more seasoned tradesman I have talked to.

You may get lucky to find a guy who's wife has killer benefits so that doesn't matter to him, but I would never bank on that.

 

[hallett21]

Live look at @endobear next interview

Instagram

www.instagram.com

 

[endobear]

Live look at @endobear next interview

Instagram

www.instagram.com

Ha. That's about what I get.

 

[hallett21]

My guys are all 1099 employees. I cover their liability insurance and workman's.
comp.
In the 1st few years of business it made the most sense. I couldn't keep all my "seasonal help" busy year round. I did have my core 2-3 guys that I kept busy year round. Alot of guys were seasonal. Hire and fire until i get a decent one. March-November. My "full time" employees preferred to be 1099s.

May need to really think about getting on the books. It's just going to raise my rates even more but maybe attract a better worker?

Probably not. But I need to do something.

In CA the 1099 doesn’t really fly anymore. If you got a guy who works all year for you he’s not an independent contractor he’s an employee.

Not trying to bust your balls because it just drives your costs up. But it’s the reality in CA.

@Riverbound is very open about the costs of a legitimate construction business in CA. Most members don’t want to hear it because they have a buddy/uncle/son in law that will complete the trade for pennys on the dollar. Meanwhile they typically earn an income that has a 401k and medical lol.

Most commercial subs I use at a minimum charge $85 an hour per guy to me if it’s T&M. I only get that rate after they’ve given a bid on the job. $85 is the cleanup/pickup rate and that’s almost always a full day 2 guy minimum.

 

[endobear]

That's about what I get

 

[hallett21]

Ha. That's about what I get.

Lol was just trying to lighten the mood. I can appreciate how hard it is to stay competitive, solvent and find good help.

 

[Done-it-again]

If the 1099 person is working mostly for you, they are actually your employee. My ex boss tried to pull that crap on me,
when things went sideways. He lost in court.

For him there was no court, not sure if it was a pissed employee or what, he got hit with that and an osha violation with a worker in a scissor lift on a job.

 

[SBMech]

But my clients would be pissed.

You need to get your head straight. When you die, and all your "clients" who loved you so much are at your funeral, the hot topic will be : "So who's your guy and how is his work?"

Sit down and figure out what you need to make to feel like it's worth it for you to ride herd on a bunch of cats to make other people happy......

Then fucking charge appropriately, raise your prices %5 a year EVERY YEAR so you can afford to keep the talent you raised and your experts.....

Painting is an ART as well as a career....if they really appreciate your ART than they will be happy to pay your prices.

Fuck your CONTRACTORS who want to use you for slave labor and double charge for your abilities. You Built It, you own it, you get to say how the ball rolls.

I don't fuck around with shoppers. I don't take any off the street clients, it's 100% referral work for me. I don't haggle or play games with pricing bids.

If you really want me to work on your vehicle, and you will show up for an estimate in person, I might take you on as a client, I do ZERO phone estimates, no sure way to waste your time with shoppers who only want the least expensive shop...that is certainly not me...

 

[badgas]

Is 1099 an issue for sales reps ? 90% of sales jobs out there are 1099 positions.

 

[hallett21]

Is 1099 an issue for sales reps ? 90% of sales jobs out there are 1099 positions.

It’s a CA issue. If you sell for one company you’re considered an employee. If you do legitimate sales for 3+ companies then you are an independent contractor.

Obviously you can work around it until you can’t.

 

[Havasu blue label]

I have about 3 companies a week that come and sit in my shop every week. i would say 99.99% of contractors are severely undercharging. time and materials pricing is the death of any trade if they want to run a successful business.

if you raised your rices and lost half of your current “contracts” you’d still be in a better financial position than you are today. if your booked out a year……your pricing is way to low.

you need to ensure your pricing supports paying the labor you need to hire and pay you enough at the end of the day to make it worth it.

Correct and very good advice

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

Is scaling back an option? You sound a lot lime my father in law. Not sure if you ever heard of stain works but he built some machines and was pumping out stained concrete siding back in the day (late 90s early 2000s) also whe pushing about 20 men for his paint business paint works. Anxiety caused him to scale back slowly since 2007/08 and he has now become a rental owner and part time one man show and spends a ton of time on his houseboat at lake Powell only coming home for a few reasons. He hasn't sold the name because if he needs to fire up a crew he still can.

 

[Icky]

In CA the 1099 doesn’t really fly anymore. If you got a guy who works all year for you he’s not an independent contractor he’s an employee.

Not trying to bust your balls because it just drives your costs up. But it’s the reality in CA.

@Riverbound is very open about the costs of a legitimate construction business in CA. Most members don’t want to hear it because they have a buddy/uncle/son in law that will complete the trade for pennys on the dollar. Meanwhile they typically earn an income that has a 401k and medical lol.

Most commercial subs I use at a minimum charge $85 an hour per guy to me if it’s T&M. I only get that rate after they’ve given a bid on the job. $85 is the cleanup/pickup rate and that’s almost always a full day 2 guy minimum.

$85 an hour would barely cover Union wages with the benefits package.

 

[hallett21]

RDP buddy deal vs legit contractor lol

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[hallett21]

$85 an hour would barely cover Union wages with the benefits package.

100%. I’d say $150 an hour might be “billable” for a Journeyman.

50-60 on the check, medical, pension, taxes etc probably equals 100-120 an hour hard costs. Realistically you should be billing double that number at a minimum.

Edit. To anyone who disagrees would you like to shell out just under $1,000 a day for one guy, plus material, overhead etc for less than “double” your money?

 

[C-2]

Great thread, there's a lot of good info being shared.

Funny, because on the topic of 1099 workers, I just finished reading a well-written summation of the controlling law/test governing 1099 workers, which is often called the "Dynamex ABC test." It has teeth for sure.

Here it is, I didn't write it, don't yell at me And I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but it's a great reference.

The California Supreme Court’s 2018 decision in Dynamex, supra, 4 Cal.5th 903, along with the passage of A.B. 5 and 2257, have established that the "ABC test" governs the determination of whether a worker is properly classified as an employee or independent contractor for purposes of the Labor Code, Unemployment Insurance Code, and wage orders of the Industrial Welfare Commission (I.W.C.). 53.

Under the ABC test, for a worker to be properly classified as an independent contractor rather than an employee, hiring parties have the burden of establishing that all of the following three requirements are satisfied:

(A) the worker is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact;
(B) the worker performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business;
and (C) the worker is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as the work performed. ​

​

These three requirements are referred to as Parts A, B, and C of the ABC test, respectively. ​

​

Because the hiring entity must establish all three parts of the ABC test in order to lawfully classify a worker as an independent contractor, the hiring entity’s failure to satisfy any part of the ABC test results in the worker in question being classified as an employee rather than an independent contractor. (Dynamex, supra, 4 Cal.5th at p. 963.)​

 

[whiteworks]

Just gonna throw this out there, anyone wants to pay $1000.00 a day for a licensed/insured finish carpenter, please give me a call. matter of fact if you need 10 or 20 guys at that rate let me know, if your on the volume program at that rate I’ll even hire a super hot escort to hang out with you all day while your at “work” as part of the package

 

[hallett21]

Just gonna throw this out there, anyone wants to pay $1000.00 a day for a licensed/insured finish carpenter, please give me a call. matter of fact if you need 10 or 20 guys at that rate let me know, if your on the volume program at that rate I’ll even hire a super hot escort to hang out with you all day while your at “work” as part of the package

I think this is the problem lol. Self employed people see the over all number and know how to figure out the rest.

Buttttttt the employee wants that medical, 401k, gas card and decent hourly pay. So with CA and fed taxes (income payroll etc ) you’re back to $1,000 a day.

Which goes back to running a shop with multiple employees. You can’t run a 10+ man legitimate CA corporation without paying a stupid amount of money that goes nowhere.

Anything less is lying to the State, IRS, CSLB or whatever ten thousand agencies you need to appease. Which is fine but it’s not fair to compare.

Edit. And I know you know this

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Is 1099 an issue for sales reps ? 90% of sales jobs out there are 1099 positions.

It's been shifting away from that for a while...states AG's got involved it. NV is a great example especially in my industry...
I was 1099 for years and years...writeoffs etc. I'm not now...but apples for apples my take home is very similar each way..just less complicated come tax time..

The sales industry will continue to be more and more w2..tax man cometh so to speak..but no where near is it 90% 1099, and hasn't been remotely close that in years if ever... I just went through sorting 1099/w-2 roles when I shifted again.. when you fully understand the tax liability as a "contractor/non-employee" it makes it easier to figure out what's a better deal.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

I think this is the problem lol. Self employed people see the over all number and know how to figure out the rest.

Buttttttt the employee wants that medical, 401k, gas card and decent hourly pay. So with CA and fed taxes (income payroll etc ) you’re back to $1,000 a day.

Which goes back to running a shop with multiple employees. You can’t run a 10+ man legitimate CA corporation without paying a stupid amount of money that goes nowhere.

Anything less is lying to the State, IRS, CSLB or whatever ten thousand agencies you need to appease. Which is fine but it’s not fair to compare.

Edit. And I know you know this

Billed to the client at $1,000 per man day is about accurate. Labor burden is nowhere near $1,000/day (hourly + taxes + benefits + etc).

Show me a $50 to $60/hr base rate for a journeyman besides an occasional one off situation and I might consider grabbing the tools back out. Lol!

 

[hallett21]

Billed to the client at $1,000 per man day is about accurate. Labor burden is nowhere near $1,000/day (hourly + taxes + benefits + etc).

Show me a $50 to $60/hr base rate for a journeyman besides an occasional one off situation and I might consider grabbing the tools back out. Lol!

Agreed. But self employed people say “I can get 30 guys here tomorrow for that money”. So who’s employing them lol? Or is the GC/Client cutting 30 checks on every billing cycle? Im sure they’ll love that lol.

Reality is they’ll end up as employees. Now they say, “we make pennies compared to what we are worth”, and we’re right back where we started lol.

$50-60 pre tax is union scale and if you’re good easy to get non union.

At $60 on the check you’re at $480. Pension/401k + Medical + taxes/fees (including work comp and general liability) you get damn close to $1,000 a day before you even factor in profit.

The other sad part is that no employee can give you 8 for 8 every day. So you need to estimate based upon 5-6 hours of productivity for every 8.

Every customer only cares about their job (as they should) but every business needs to look at the annual production. It’s just never as clean cut as people want to make it.

In my humble opinion of course lol.

 

[riverroyal]

But my clients would be pissed.

Prob not. Explain the situation. My guess is they will understand and pay more or give you more actual time to get it done.
It's horrible in the trades. All trades. This is only the beginning. There's no 'we are recruiting ". That would mean you actually got someone.

As long as cell phones are more important than learning some type of skill to be a tradesman there is no recovery.
You can throw another 20 bucks per hour at it, same result will happen.

When I say sell the biz, I mean that in a good way. Long term this will kill you.

 

[CarolynandBob]

Who can live alone on 60k in Socal and be comfortable?

 

[Wedgy]

Re: no 8 hours work, for 8 hrs pay.

8 hours work for 8 hours pay in LA for Local 18, RIP, Residential, 3 Mud tubs a day every day = 250 sq ft of tile float and set per day. Been that way for over 40 years. For Bricklayers, 300 88's per day.

For both trades. 3 tubs a day, 300 88's.
8 hours work, for 8 hours pay. All day every day. And that my friends, is an easy day. Tile Trends, SelecTile. RIP...

For LA Tilesetters, 33 1/3% more production than Local 17, RIP, San Diego.

Edit. SoCal, now all Local 4, LA. Brick Tile Marble Masons PCC.
Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers.

 

[Wedgy]

EB,
Have you thought about stealing guys?
!°°! Running ads is not theft!

We'd always read the OC Register at lunch. As Construction guys, we loved reading the Business Personals section aloud at lunch.

Good Hunting!

 

[Wedgy]

@endobear

Dude. You shoold contact SB Job Corps. See if they have a paint program. I know San Diego does, or did. That instructor really pissed of the Administration.

Anyway, if you want young and trained. Paint ran a damn good program. Those Kid's would paint the living shit out of anything that didn't move, Brother.

I think there is a center in Long Beach as well.

 

[Wedgy]

@endobear

I know you're busy, I'll make some calls today, see what I can find out. Report back.

Yes, they can pull a trigger on an airless.

But only the good one's. 16-24. They earn a GED, HS, a driver's license and learn a trade.

You might also talk to related trades on a job about guys, pull Sub lists out of a Super, GC, find some guys who want to jump.
Aww Hell, grab a spray man off a jobsite.
It's a bitch. I ran an add for a year in the San Diego Union. "I'm a Tilesetter."

Then you take a look in the back of their truck... !°°!

Good Luck!

 

[Icky]

Have you tried a temp agency?

 

[Done-it-again]

Who can live alone on 60k in Socal and be comfortable?

Who knows, but there are millions of CA people that do.

 

[Wedgy]

FYI GC's Carpenter's if you are looking for Carpenter Apprentices. ED Miles in San Diego. His Carpenters program is insane. Zero tolerance. No bullshit.

The Trainees in that program are sharp.
It's Gladiator School over there, with mil-spec precision. Taught by the Men who built S.O.N.G.S and put up the Falsework for the Lilac street bridge over I-15.

Yes they are Union Carpenters. !°°!

 

[racektm]

Who can live alone on 60k in Socal and be comfortable?

No One!

 

[Done-it-again]

No One!

So how do the millions of warehouse (DC’s) workers live?

Just because you and I can’t, doesn’t not mean no one can.

 

[racektm]

So how do the millions of warehouse (DC’s) workers live?

Just because you and I can’t, doesn’t not mean no one can.

The post said live comfortably.....

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The post said live comfortably.....

Comfort is relative.

On RDP you can’t have a comfortable river experience without a $300k boat, $100k truck, $1m house, with 80’ garage and $90k UTV

 

[racektm]

Comfort is relative.

On RDP you can’t have a comfortable river experience without a $300k boat, $100k truck, $1m house, with 80’ garage and $90k UTV

That's my point exactly!

 

[Shlbyntro]

Comfort is relative.

On RDP you can’t have a comfortable river experience without a $300k boat, $100k truck, $1m house, with 80’ garage and $90k UTV

I feel poor all of a sudden

 

[Wedgy]

@endobear Hey EB, all 3 Job Corps centers in SoCal have paint programs. San Diego, Inland Empire, and San Diego.

The Trainee's live all over. I placed a Girl from my program with a Forkift Cert at the Hunts Tomato plant in the Central Valley.

I saw a kid I sent over to paint in SD at a stoplight in Laughlin years later, with his GF/ Fiance, and her Grinning ear to ear GC Dad. Boat in tow, going up to Katherine's.
He introduced me to them all. I had cut the herd first day, fired him, and sent him off to paint.

"Hey! That's my Instructor Bill! Hey Bill! Check it out! I do all the paint for my FIL on all our projects! Plus! I'm getting my Contractors license!!

" I was working at Jack in the Box, and that light went off in my head!"
"Just like you said it would." "Thanks!!"

And then the light turned green...

 

[TPC]

It’s too expensive to live out here.
Labor moves to cheaper digs.

Romania had that nationwide doctor and nurses strike some years back.
They were paid peanuts.

Wife’s hospital recruited RNs from Romania and for 5 years picked up their rent and other expenses.

They all had excellent educations and skills and could be brought up to speed pretty fast.

Starting pay here was over $150k plus other bennies and diff and OT and citizenship.

When the 5 years was up they all headed to Texas. Much cheaper to live with not much less pay.
Worked out the way to roll on paper.

Genuine honest and straightforward girls that really worked out good.

Honesty in Romania is taken as sincerity.
“Ross, you’re an ugly old man with a young beautiful wife. Appreciate it and don’t throw it away.”

 

[endobear]

@endobear Hey EB, all 3 Job Corps centers in SoCal have paint programs. San Diego, Inland Empire, and San Diego.

The Trainee's live all over. I placed a Girl from my program with a Forkift Cert at the Hunts Tomato plant in the Central Valley.

I saw a kid I sent over to paint in SD at a stoplight in Laughlin years later, with his GF/ Fiance, and her Grinning ear to ear GC Dad. Boat in tow, going up to Katherine's.
He introduced me to them all. I had cut the herd first day, fired him, and sent him off to paint.

"Hey! That's my Instructor Bill! Hey Bill! Check it out! I do all the paint for my FIL on all our projects! Plus! I'm getting my Contractors license!!

" I was working at Jack in the Box, and that light went off in my head!"
"Just like you said it would." "Thanks!!"

And then the light turned green...

Im near Denver. I did reach out to the local Job Corp this morning.

 

[petie6464]

You need to get your head straight. When you die, and all your "clients" who loved you so much are at your funeral, the hot topic will be : "So who's your guy and how is his work?"

Sit down and figure out what you need to make to feel like it's worth it for you to ride herd on a bunch of cats to make other people happy......

Then fucking charge appropriately, raise your prices %5 a year EVERY YEAR so you can afford to keep the talent you raised and your experts.....

Painting is an ART as well as a career....if they really appreciate your ART than they will be happy to pay your prices.

Fuck your CONTRACTORS who want to use you for slave labor and double charge for your abilities. You Built It, you own it, you get to say how the ball rolls.

I don't fuck around with shoppers. I don't take any off the street clients, it's 100% referral work for me. I don't haggle or play games with pricing bids.

If you really want me to work on your vehicle, and you will show up for an estimate in person, I might take you on as a client, I do ZERO phone estimates, no sure way to waste your time with shoppers who only want the least expensive shop...that is certainly not me...

You are a Mechanic?

 

[77charger]

In CA the 1099 doesn’t really fly anymore. If you got a guy who works all year for you he’s not an independent contractor he’s an employee.

Not trying to bust your balls because it just drives your costs up. But it’s the reality in CA.

@Riverbound is very open about the costs of a legitimate construction business in CA. Most members don’t want to hear it because they have a buddy/uncle/son in law that will complete the trade for pennys on the dollar. Meanwhile they typically earn an income that has a 401k and medical lol.

Most commercial subs I use at a minimum charge $85 an hour per guy to me if it’s T&M. I only get that rate after they’ve given a bid on the job. $85 is the cleanup/pickup rate and that’s almost always a full day 2 guy minimum.

Yup bill does say it and gives reasons. I know hot mop trade good after 29 years. My old place I worked at owner had full ins and all the expenses shop maint etc. He charges for it.

My current with my brother he also pays for all that too. My brother chooses to do volume to make up difference old shop was higher price less driving so in end both about the same.

The thing we can’t compete against is Julio hot mopper who bought kettle works out of house old no worker comp ,lacks experience etc and charges half the price. Some places we never went for the work because it was half a day basically and no way we could do that for their price.

I respect bills way of doing things luckily other trades stick together and you have a minimum price. As for discounts I do give a good rdp one since it’s a quick job and my day is already done. I’m just glad I can work every other week now.

 

[Riverbound]

I can’t wait to the next “can you believe what the Ac guy charged me thread”

i’m going to just link this one.

 

[Badchoices03]

Comfort is relative.

On RDP you can’t have a comfortable river experience without a $300k boat, $100k truck, $1m house, with 80’ garage and $90k UTV

And dont forget, only wash your car with holy water and towels made of a million bald eagle feathers....

 

[whiteworks]

well shit, looks like the price of wooden shutters is going up

 

[MPHSystems]

Try a Home Depot parking lot

Those guys all think they are contractors. They try and charge more than I do. No license, no bond, no insurance, no W2, now workers comp, no tax recording, no accountability and they only take cash so it doesn’t hurt their benefits.

Fuck those guys.