Hiring skilled labor.

[endobear]

Been a residential painting contractor for 25 years.
Finding quality help has always been what I've struggled with the most.
Mostly. The only good guys I've ever hired were found through my contacts in the commercial painting world. Older guys that were tired of the commercial rat race and wanted to do more custom work. They would usually have a few decent buddies or I could find them guys and they could train/mold them into what we needed.
My 2 contacts in the commercial world have recently passed away. My last lead painter aged out last April after 10 years with me. (I actually apprenticed under him 93-98).
Have had feelers out at every local paint store all summer. Nobody worth a crap has applied. Can't find help. I don't do social media and I haven't found anyone decent off Craig's list in 10 years. Any other suggestions on finding skilled professional tradesman?
We start apprentice/helpers at $20 per hr. $30 for 5+ year painters. No one wants to work? It's about to shut my business down.

 

[Albert]

Reach out to every place you can if you don’t do social media, I would. Just to have more prospects. I have social media use it for networking and marketplace to find things that I need. I have down the whole indeed and different companies most the time I find them from my own employees who know a guy. Also where are you located?

 

[hallett21]

Unfortunately guys are getting $30 an hour cash doing “side work”.

I’m not even sure how you compete with that.

 

[Bpracing1127]

Try a Home Depot parking lot

 

[Riverbound]

Been a residential painting contractor for 25 years.
Finding quality help has always been what I've struggled with the most.
Mostly. The only good guys I've ever hired were found through my contacts in the commercial painting world. Older guys that were tired of the commercial rat race and wanted to do more custom work. They would usually have a few decent buddies or I could find them guys and they could train/mold them into what we needed.
My 2 contacts in the commercial world have recently passed away. My last lead painter aged out last April after 10 years with me. (I actually apprenticed under him 93-98).
Have had feelers out at every local paint store all summer. Nobody worth a crap has applied. Can't find help. I don't do social media and I haven't found anyone decent off Craig's list in 10 years. Any other suggestions on finding skilled professional tradesman?
We start apprentice/helpers and $20 per hr. $30 for 5+ year painters. No one wants to work? It's about to shut my business down.

it’s a vicious cycle. and a big part of why the trades are so expensive nowadays. nobody that’s skilled labor wants to work for only $20-30/hr when they can pick much easier jobs that aren’t skilled for that pay rate.

pay what it takes to attract labor and then charge accordingly. the trades will be getting more and more expensive due to labor shortage.

in HVAC we are over 1 million short in our labor pool. so the top talent makes very good money. that cost is part of doing business and ultimately results in a higher price to the consumer.

 

[Xring01]

Been a residential painting contractor for 25 years.
Finding quality help has always been what I've struggled with the most.
Mostly. The only good guys I've ever hired were found through my contacts in the commercial painting world. Older guys that were tired of the commercial rat race and wanted to do more custom work. They would usually have a few decent buddies or I could find them guys and they could train/mold them into what we needed.
My 2 contacts in the commercial world have recently passed away. My last lead painter aged out last April after 10 years with me. (I actually apprenticed under him 93-98).
Have had feelers out at every local paint store all summer. Nobody worth a crap has applied. Can't find help. I don't do social media and I haven't found anyone decent off Craig's list in 10 years. Any other suggestions on finding skilled professional tradesman?
We start apprentice/helpers and $20 per hr. $30 for 5+ year painters. No one wants to work? It's about to shut my business down.

I posted on another thread on a similar subject…
I know of union factory jobs, with good pay, medical, dental, 401K, annual bonus’s and guaranteed pay raises every 6 months. These factories are running at 1.5 shifts, and want to run at 3 shifts. Hundreds of well paying jobs in an area where the cost of living is low.

Been like that for 2-3 years…

I can tell story after story on this subject…

Bottom line…. is the overall un employment rate is pretty low, and everyone is fight for the same person to fill a roll. Most are over paying for what they get, but they dont have a choice. Thats is truly todays labor market. SUPPLY vs DEMAND… Not enough supply.

 

[JL95]

What's even cooler about this situation a lot of us are dealing with is the dynamic of pay rate between all the people on the floor. New guy walks in at $20 and works next to the guy that started at $6 and took 15 years to get to $21. Doesn't help most non union places its like pulling teeth to break out of the $30-40 range. Stuck in 2005. It also is tough because maybe that person who worked their way to $21 over the years is only really worth that. No more no less. Hard all around.

 

[Shlbyntro]

I still get contacted by head hunters from time to time, maybe go that route. A head hunter is actually what initially brought me out to TX.

I've had quite a few opportunities present themselves to me the last couple years including just recently but the pay hasn't been there. I think in any skilled trade, you're going to have to offer at least double what unskilled jobs are paying in the area to start

good luck!

 

[Turnup]

..no one wants to work for less than 300-400 per day, no matter white black brown purple.

 

[450grip]

30.00/hr isn’t going to attract what you’re looking for

 

[dribble]

My old next door neighbor here in norcal is a building contractor Does everything. Remodels, new builds, decks etc. He has a crew of four skilled guys. He works really hard and so does his crew. He pays them 60 bucks an hour straight up. Pays comp, EDD Social Security etc. He pays himself 120 bucks an hour. He's not cheap but he's fast and does great work. He's booked out six months in advance.

 

[Spudsbud]

surely not white guys.
good luck.

 

[Turnup]

surely not white guys.
good luck.

I was being equitable and inclusive

 

[Done-it-again]

Welcome to CA were every worker wants 100k to start.....

 

[racektm]

Welcome to CA were every worker wants 100k to start.....

You wont live in So Cal on much less....

 

[Done-it-again]

You wont live in So Cal on much less....

Lets be honest, there are a TON of people living in CA on much less, don't know how its done beside to live within your means..

 

[framer1]

Been a residential painting contractor for 25 years.
Finding quality help has always been what I've struggled with the most.
Mostly. The only good guys I've ever hired were found through my contacts in the commercial painting world. Older guys that were tired of the commercial rat race and wanted to do more custom work. They would usually have a few decent buddies or I could find them guys and they could train/mold them into what we needed.
My 2 contacts in the commercial world have recently passed away. My last lead painter aged out last April after 10 years with me. (I actually apprenticed under him 93-98).
Have had feelers out at every local paint store all summer. Nobody worth a crap has applied. Can't find help. I don't do social media and I haven't found anyone decent off Craig's list in 10 years. Any other suggestions on finding skilled professional tradesman?
We start apprentice/helpers and $20 per hr. $30 for 5+ year painters. No one wants to work? It's about to shut my business down.

I think you nail it with no one wants to work....I'm glad I'm out of the framing business.

 

[endobear]

Reach out to every place you can if you don’t do social media, I would. Just to have more prospects. I have social media use it for networking and marketplace to find things that I need. I have down the whole indeed and different companies most the time I find them from my own employees who know a guy. Also where are you located?

Evergreen Colorado. Mountain town 35 minutes West of Denver.

 

[Gelcoater]

Try a Home Depot parking lot

I’ve seen what kind of stuff this guy does, he isn’t finding the help he needs there.

30.00/hr isn’t going to attract what you’re looking for

Agreed.
I think?
He needs a decent health package to offer.
I’d probably figure some kind of bonus structure on finished on time, ahead, behind, etc.

 

[LuauLounge]

With California minimum wage at $15.50/hr, San Francisco at $18.07 and West Hollywood at $19.08, it hurts every everyone. Add to that the other employer burden, SDI, SS, etc. and then there is Worker's Comp. Add to that liability insurance, auto insurance, 75k truck and on and on. I don't see how anyone is making any money. The skilled folks make you money and the spread between minimum wage and skilled is way too small. Dealing with the general public, they think you are ripping them off charging $50/hr.

 

[bonesfab]

Well all the instagram hoes will only date a guy that make minimum 6 figures. So there is that.

 

[Riverbound]

Lets be honest, there are a TON of people living in CA on much less, don't know how its done beside to live within your means..

……if you’re skilled at a job that has little talent available and nobody wants to do themselves, you’re in a great spot to negotiate a higher wage. the flip side of this is, these costs will be pushed on to the consumer. everyone bitches about the AC and plumbers pricing. we just figured it out before everyone and have been charging accordingly.

 

[Gelcoater]

With California minimum wage at $15.50/hr, San Francisco at $18.07 and West Hollywood at $19.08, it hurts every everyone. Add to that the other employer burden, SDI, SS, etc. and then there is Worker's Comp. Add to that liability insurance, auto insurance, 75k truck and on and on. I don't see how anyone is making any money. The skilled folks make you money and the spread between minimum wage and skilled is way too small. Dealing with the general public, they think you are ripping them off charging $50/hr.

While he’s Colorado,some of that applies

 

[sonicss31]

Well all the instagram hoes will only date a guy that make minimum 6 figures. So there is that.

And you know this how?

 

[Done-it-again]

……if you’re skilled at a job that has little talent available and nobody wants to do themselves, you’re in a great spot to negotiate a higher wage. the flip side of this is, these costs will be pushed on to the consumer. everyone bitches about the AC and plumbers pricing. we just figured it out before everyone and have been charging accordingly.

It also has to do what the market can bare price wise for what you provide. I'm sure painting like the OP does, can be put off (unless a new build) for prices to come down as its not a necessity like getting a heater/AC or a water heater replaced like in my situation as those are a needed necessity. If the OP hires at 45-50hr then his price point might not get him the job.

I'm dealing with this somewhat myself. Our run cost are super high with travelling nation wide and the cost of doing business in CA. I don't want to gouge my customers, but we ALL have bills to pay and our business is niche compared to painting/HVAC and we don't have the volume of customers so we are not volume based. We do a lot of engineering work just to get the business we have and our customers most of the time don't see that. I'm creeping up pricing bit by bit also trying to push more "part sales" as that is a direct easy markup and mostly manufactured by us.

 

[Orange Juice]

……if you’re skilled at a job that has little talent available and nobody wants to do themselves, you’re in a great spot to negotiate a higher wage. the flip side of this is, these costs will be pushed on to the consumer. everyone bitches about the AC and plumbers pricing. we just figured it out before everyone and have been charging accordingly.

I don’t see too many families with 5-9 kids, in 2023, leaving the farm, heading to the cities.
There isn’t a “pick of the litter”, to choose from anymore.
Robots are looking more attractive in many situations.

 

[endobear]

it’s a vicious cycle. and a big part of why the trades are so expensive nowadays. nobody that’s skilled labor wants to work for only $20-30/hr when they can pick much easier jobs that aren’t skilled for that pay rate.

pay what it takes to attract labor and then charge accordingly. the trades will be getting more and more expensive due to labor shortage.

in HVAC we are over 1 million short in our labor pool. so the top talent makes very good money. that cost is part of doing business and ultimately results in a higher price to the consumer.

This is a problem for sure. The older guys I've worked with moved their way up to $30. Now I've got to hire some dude that calls himself a painter but can't even run an airless $30. I'm finding it hard to do.


I've been crazy busy my entire career. Never once advertised. Booked out for a year or more since 2011. All references from clients or builders.
I've been slowly raising my rates since 2011.
In 2019 I jumped from charging $40 per hr to $45. But I didn't see that jump for a year do to already having contracts at $40.
Jumped to $50 this year but won't see that until I get last years $45 contracts done.
Definitely feeling like I've been under charging and short changing myself and my guys over the years.
I suppose I'll need to raise my rates again to be able to afford some skilled help.

 

[endobear]

..no one wants to work for less than 300-400 per day, no matter white black brown purple.

For sure. But I feel that if a painter wants to make that they better own their own business.

 

[endobear]

I think you nail it with no one wants to work....I'm glad I'm out of the framing business.

Good buddy is a framer. He's in the same boat as me. It's wearing him out.

 

[whiteworks]

You might want to try buying some border brothers out of transport hawk out in LA, I guess they call it human trafficking, but if you have a bunk house and pay them well you could build up a hell of a work force

 

[Riverbound]

This is a problem for sure. The older guys I've worked with moved their way up to $30. Now I've got to hire some dude that calls himself a painter but can't even run an airless $30. I'm finding it hard to do.


I've been crazy busy my entire career. Never once advertised. Booked out for a year or more since 2011. All references from clients or builders.
I've been slowly raising my rates since 2011.
In 2019 I jumped from charging $40 per hr to $45. But I didn't see that jump for a year do to already having contracts at $40.
Jumped to $50 this year but won't see that until I get last years $45 contracts done.
Definitely feeling like I've been under charging and short changing myself and my guys over the years.
I suppose I'll need to raise my rates again to be able to afford some skilled help.

I have about 3 companies a week that come and sit in my shop every week. i would say 99.99% of contractors are severely undercharging. time and materials pricing is the death of any trade if they want to run a successful business.

if you raised your rices and lost half of your current “contracts” you’d still be in a better financial position than you are today. if your booked out a year……your pricing is way to low.

you need to ensure your pricing supports paying the labor you need to hire and pay you enough at the end of the day to make it worth it.

 

[endobear]

I’ve seen what kind of stuff this guy does, he isn’t finding the help he needs there.

Agreed.
I think?
He needs a decent health package to offer.
I’d probably figure some kind of bonus structure on finished on time, ahead, behind, etc.

My guys are all 1099 employees. I cover their liability insurance and workman's.
comp.
In the 1st few years of business it made the most sense. I couldn't keep all my "seasonal help" busy year round. I did have my core 2-3 guys that I kept busy year round. Alot of guys were seasonal. Hire and fire until i get a decent one. March-November. My "full time" employees preferred to be 1099s.

May need to really think about getting on the books. It's just going to raise my rates even more but maybe attract a better worker?

Probably not. But I need to do something.

 

[77charger]

Did hot mopping for years that was very hard to find help. Took 5 months to train them before they could go on their own. Then they quit or go to another place who wouldn’t take time to train them but would hire them now that they know how and pay them more. Other thing was about 5-7k your in business for yourself and can make damn good money. I think if owner wanted to keep employees he was gonna have to open the checkbook something he didn’t want to do but had no problem raising prices if I was still in so cal I would have eventually left too.

I seriously got tired of training but owner said other guys didn’t want to and was worried they’d quit and knew I wasn’t going anywhere. Sucked caused they suddenly thought I could take more work now and also train. Once one left here came another. I finally had enough of it and said no more and others had to take them too. owner could have trained them but only wanted to push pencils.

After I moved and his other main guy quit it went south fast. Now part time at my brothers business and I don’t do training lol. I get my work go get it done and go.

 

[endobear]

I have about 3 companies a week that come and sit in my shop every week. i would say 99.99% of contractors are severely undercharging. time and materials pricing is the death of any trade if they want to run a successful business.

if you raised your rices and lost half of your current “contracts” you’d still be in a better financial position than you are today. if your booked out a year……your pricing is way to low.

you need to ensure your pricing supports paying the labor you need to hire and pay you enough at the end of the day to make it worth it.

This is what I needed to hear.
Most my contractors won't talk to me about competing prices. They don't want me charging more.
I don't normally charge T&M but that's basically what I charge for extras. Kinda how I estimate work.

I've never bailed on or asked for more money on a contract. It's just not me.
I'm pretty specific in my contracts and do get my extras.
Alot of my contracts know each other. Builders, builders referrals. Homes I've been taking care of for 25 years through different owners. Parents and grandparents of clients. You get the idea.
Hard to turn anyone away with a contract.

 

[riverroyal]

Sell the business.

 

[endobear]

Did hot mopping for years that was very hard to find help. Took 5 months to train them before they could go on their own. Then they quit or go to another place who wouldn’t take time to train them but would hire them now that they know how and pay them more. Other thing was about 5-7k your in business for yourself and can make damn good money. I think if owner wanted to keep employees he was gonna have to open the checkbook something he didn’t want to do but had no problem raising prices if I was still in so cal I would have eventually left too.

I seriously got tired of training but owner said other guys didn’t want to and was worried they’d quit and knew I wasn’t going anywhere. Sucked caused they suddenly thought I could take more work now and also train. Once one left here came another. I finally had enough of it and said no more and others had to take them too. owner could have trained them but only wanted to push pencils.

After I moved and his other main guy quit it went south fast. Now part time at my brothers business and I don’t do training lol. I get my work go get it done and go.

Im sure I burned out a few guys trying to get them to do their job and train fools. Not on purpose but I did.

 

[endobear]

Sell the business.

Been considering this.

 

[endobear]

Been considering this.

But my clients would be pissed.

 

[endobear]

I’ve seen what kind of stuff this guy does, he isn’t finding the help he needs there.

Agreed.
I think?
He needs a decent health package to offer.
I’d probably figure some kind of bonus structure on finished on time, ahead, behind, etc.

 

[endobear]

I’ve seen what kind of stuff this guy does, he isn’t finding the help he needs there.

Agreed.
I think?
He needs a decent health package to offer.
I’d probably figure some kind of bonus structure on finished on time, ahead, behind, etc.

 

[Angler]

Clients will ALWAYS find someone else.

 

[endobear]

Clients will ALWAYS find someone else.

Yep. Very true.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

My guys are all 1099 employees. I cover their liability insurance and workman's.
comp.
In the 1st few years of business it made the most sense. I couldn't keep all my "seasonal help" busy year round. I did have my core 2-3 guys that I kept busy year round. Alot of guys were seasonal. Hire and fire until i get a decent one. March-November. My "full time" employees preferred to be 1099s.

May need to really think about getting on the books. It's just going to raise my rates even more but maybe attract a better worker?

Probably not. But I need to do something.

So....your guys are stuck paying self employment taxes, health coverage, etc out of pocket fully.... Yet you call them "employees"...they aren't by your definition (but likely would be classified as such) they are independent contractors...but thats questionable and would be a solid reason why you are having trouble finding good ones...

Been a residential painting contractor for 25 years.
Finding quality help has always been what I've struggled with the most.
Mostly. The only good guys I've ever hired were found through my contacts in the commercial painting world. Older guys that were tired of the commercial rat race and wanted to do more custom work. They would usually have a few decent buddies or I could find them guys and they could train/mold them into what we needed.
My 2 contacts in the commercial world have recently passed away. My last lead painter aged out last April after 10 years with me. (I actually apprenticed under him 93-98).
Have had feelers out at every local paint store all summer. Nobody worth a crap has applied. Can't find help. I don't do social media and I haven't found anyone decent off Craig's list in 10 years. Any other suggestions on finding skilled professional tradesman?
We start apprentice/helpers and $20 per hr. $30 for 5+ year painters. No one wants to work? It's about to shut my business down.

At $20 an hour? They can go be a W2 at McDonalds for pretty close to that ($18.25 right by me), and not be double taxed (self employment tax), and they would get
health benefits... They would be netting more than what you are offering after taxes etc...easy decision. Just being blunt.

It's a common theme "no-one wants to work" but thats not it at all...they simply take other positions... The dollar has lost something like 17% in value in the last 2 years...why would anyone take a 20$ or even 30$ an hour 1099, especially if they have a family to feed/insure.. I know that just changing companies in a corp role and having to pay cobra for 60 days im out over $2k a month for a family of 4.

You either need to one of a few things:
1. Charge more for your services...or look at your model from an outside view
2. Get your books and staffing on the up and up..and do benefits etc.
3. Sell it.

 

[endobear]

So....your guys are stuck paying self employment taxes, health coverage, etc out of pocket fully.... Yet you call them "employees"...they aren't by your definition (but likely would be classified as such) they are independent contractors...but thats questionable and would be a solid reason why you are having trouble finding good ones...

At $20 an hour? They can go be a W2 at McDonalds for pretty close to that ($18.25 right by me), and not be double taxed (self employment tax), and they would get
health benefits... They would be netting more than what you are offering after taxes etc...easy decision. Just being blunt.

It's a common theme "no-one wants to work" but thats not it at all...they simply take other positions... The dollar has lost something like 17% in value in the last 2 years...why would anyone take a 20$ or even 30$ an hour 1099, especially if they have a family to feed/insure.. I know that just changing companies in a corp role and having to pay cobra for 60 days im out over $2k a month for a family of 4.

You either need to one of a few things:
1. Charge more for your services...or look at your model from an outside view
2. Get your books and staffing on the up and up..and do benefits etc.
3. Sell it.

Your 100% right.

 

[Angler]

So....your guys are stuck paying self employment taxes, health coverage, etc out of pocket fully.... Yet you call them "employees"...they aren't by your definition (but likely would be classified as such) they are independent contractors...but thats questionable and would be a solid reason why you are having trouble finding good ones...

At $20 an hour? They can go be a W2 at McDonalds for pretty close to that ($18.25 right by me), and not be double taxed (self employment tax), and they would get
health benefits... They would be netting more than what you are offering after taxes etc...easy decision. Just being blunt.

It's a common theme "no-one wants to work" but thats not it at all...they simply take other positions... The dollar has lost something like 17% in value in the last 2 years...why would anyone take a 20$ or even 30$ an hour 1099, especially if they have a family to feed/insure.. I know that just changing companies in a corp role and having to pay cobra for 60 days im out over $2k a month for a family of 4.

You either need to one of a few things:
1. Charge more for your services...or look at your model from an outside view
2. Get your books and staffing on the up and up..and do benefits etc.
3. Sell it.

Yep, people need medical insurance, I pay 60% of the medical, 100% dental & eye insurance.
I let them pick on the coverage THEY what.

 

[Done-it-again]

Your 100% right.

Carful with keeping someone employee majority of time with being 1099. Our old business neighbor got busted for doing this for a long time and had to pay around 40-50k in a penalty.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Yep, people need medical insurance, I pay 60% of the medical, 100% dental & eye insurance.
I let them pick on the coverage THEY what.

I had multiple offers from different firms a few weeks ago when I made my decision… there were many factors I was looking at but health coverage was a major deciding factor in where I went. It’s a huge deal anymore because of the cost..

Unless it was just stupid money I would never even look at a 1099 offer unless I was breaking out on my own again…

 

[endobear]

Yep, people need medical insurance, I pay 60% of the medical, 100% dental & eye insurance.
I let them pick on the coverage THEY what.

Painting contractor?

 

[Angler]

Painting contractor?

Very small fire sprinkler contractor.

 

[Angler]

Carful with keeping someone employee majority of time with being 1099. Our old business neighbor got busted for doing this for a long time and had to pay around 40-50k in a penalty.

If the 1099 person is working mostly for you, they are actually your employee. My ex boss tried to pull that crap on me,
when things went sideways. He lost in court.