Hey Gearheads...

[rivermobster]

What's wrong with this picture??

 

[4Waters]

I'm not familiar with that system but it looks like 2 pressure regulators and they are using the wrong one.

 

[MSum661]

Missing a vacuum line

 

[welldigger00]

Vacuum lines, and j b weld is what I spy with my little eye...


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[24 Sleekenforcer]

No vacuum hose to the disturber, plugged off.

 

[jb600]

Ground wires on the carburetor studs? On a aluminum manifold.

 

[24 Sleekenforcer]

Looks like a fi tech system

 

[JayBreww]

Does the gauge read shock pressure?
No return line out the throttle body?


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[4Waters]

Does the gauge read shock pressure?
No return line out the throttle body?


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Zoomed in and can see it says "return"

 

[MSum661]

Also, The top of the EFI main body looks a little hammered like something was bouncing around on top of it.

 

[rivermobster]

You guys are good...

It is a FiTech throttle body system...

It does have its own built in fuel pressure regulator...

Some fucking moron decided it needed an additional regulator!?! OMFG. Just when you think you've seen everything! LoL

It also has all the wrong size fuel lines. It's a 383 and FiTech specifies 3/8 ID fuel lines for their 600HP kit. These are Maybe a 1/4 ID fuel lines.

Maybe they should have read the instructions that came with the kit??

Ho Lee Fuk

Customer also said it falls flat when you nail the gas. Basic set up in the FiTech computer was set for a 350, not a 383.

Pings like a bitch and kicks back when trying to start it.

They sold this guy a new distributor too...

Unreal.

 

[JayBreww]

Zoomed in and can see it says "return"

Correct, but it appears capped.


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[rivermobster]

Also, The top of the EFI main body looks a little hammered like something was bouncing around on top of it.

It does look odd. Like the finish got hot or something...

 

[Willie B]

Why would a system like this use a vacuum advance type distributor???... Seems like at a minimum the distributor should have a pet Tronics electronic conversion module ... Now that I think about it maybe it does ???...Dunno???..,

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You guys are good...

It is a FiTech throttle body system...

It does have its own built in fuel pressure regulator...

Some fucking moron decided it needed an additional regulator!?! OMFG. Just when you think you've seen everything! LoL

It also has all the wrong size fuel lines. It's a 383 and FiTech specifies 3/8 ID fuel lines for their 600HP kit. These are Maybe a 1/4 ID fuel lines.

Maybe they should have read the instructions that came with the kit??

Ho Lee Fuk

Customer also said it falls flat when you nail the gas. Basic set up in the FiTech computer was set for a 350, not a 383.

Pings like a bitch and kicks back when trying to start it.

They sold this guy a new distributor too...

Unreal.

It is a California car for sure. There are lots of fuel regulations here.

 

[rivermobster]

Why would a system like this use a vacuum advance type distributor???... Seems like at a minimum the distributor should have a pet Tronics electronic conversion module ... Now that I think about it maybe it does ???...Dunno???..,

It does not need a vac advance. You are correct. They put a ready to run MSD on it. I would have used a Pertronix for sure.

It is a California car for sure. There are lots of fuel regulations here.

You are on a roll today dude!!!!! lol

 

[Carlson-jet]

It's out of focus?

 

[monkeyswrench]

If you blow that picture up, it's a "Where's Waldo" of fucktardery. It always bugs me when people throw money at parts, but not the parts they needed. I feel bad for the car owner, probably got hosed by a shop or two.

 

[rivermobster]

If you blow that picture up, it's a "Where's Waldo" of fucktardery. It always bugs me when people throw money at parts, but not the parts they needed. I feel bad for the car owner, probably got hosed by a shop or two.

Yep.

And the worst part is?? This guy is a LONG time customer of mine. He decided that my price to install a FAST EFI system was way too high, so he went somewhere else to have this POS FiTech thing installed.

As you can see, he's back.

 

[D19]

Also no heat shrink around braided line that rubs against firewall paint.

 

[D19]

Yep.

And the worst part is?? This guy is a LONG time customer of mine. He decided that my price to install a FAST EFI system was way too high, so he went somewhere else to have this POS FiTech thing installed.

As you can see, he's back.

Pay me now or pay me later

 

[Carlson-jet]

Pay me now or pay me later

I prefer buy once cry once but yes, same sentiment.
I want the see the test vids of RM smoking the hushpuppies for once.

 

[Willie B]

Yep.

And the worst part is?? This guy is a LONG time customer of mine. He decided that my price to install a FAST EFI system was way too high, so he went somewhere else to have this POS FiTech thing installed.

As you can see, he's back.

..,Can you give me the cliff notes why this type of EFI system is so much better than carburation...if in fact it is...or since I know nothing about it maybe why something like the equilvalent of an early Bosch electronic port injection system might not be better???...

 

[Shlbyntro]

It's missing a carburetor where the carburetor should go. I dont know why carburetors scare people. It baffles me.
KISS

 

[bonesfab]

I was wondering how the distributor cap comes off. Looks a wee bit tight.

 

[Boat 405]

My eyes are bleeding... fuck.... Don't even know where to start. Just tell the guy to stop...

 

[braindead]

You guys are good...

It is a FiTech throttle body system...

It does have its own built in fuel pressure regulator...

Some fucking moron decided it needed an additional regulator!?! OMFG. Just when you think you've seen everything! LoL

It also has all the wrong size fuel lines. It's a 383 and FiTech specifies 3/8 ID fuel lines for their 600HP kit. These are Maybe a 1/4 ID fuel lines.

Maybe they should have read the instructions that came with the kit??

Ho Lee Fuk

Customer also said it falls flat when you nail the gas. Basic set up in the FiTech computer was set for a 350, not a 383.

Pings like a bitch and kicks back when trying to start it.

They sold this guy a new distributor too...

Unreal.

Yeah but his regulator has a badass gauge attached to it

 

[n2otoofast4u]

Fuel on fire wall = no no

 

[rivermobster]

I was wondering how the distributor cap comes off. Looks a wee bit tight.

Fake firewall. One of those flat pieces that fastens to/over the original firewall? Real nice of the shit heads to drill holes in it and fuck it all up...

 

[bonesfab]

And the yellow insulated connectors. I hate them things. One size does not fit all.

 

[Bigbore500r]

- Return fitting from EFI throttle body unit isn’t plumbed back to tank. Is it plugged off?

-That EFI unit has an internal fuel pressure regulator, but he is using an external regulator inline that isn’t necessary. Double regulated ain’t double good.....

-Now that we’ve established that the unit is internally regulated, let’s talk about the missing vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator.....

-Vacuum advance isn’t hooked up on distributor

-Insert rivermobster joke about “why is the stupid Chevy distributor in the rear” here

 

[rivermobster]

..,Can you give me the cliff notes why this type of EFI system is so much better than carburation...if in fact it is...or since I know nothing about it maybe why something like the equilvalent of an early Bosch electronic port injection system might not be better???...

Almost any EFI is better than a carb...

Temperature compensating. Altitude compensating. O2 sensor/fuel mixture compensating. More efficient (better fuel mileage). Super easy to tune!

Is it hesitating on take off??

Carb: Lemme get my Holly pump cam chart out, select a cam, select what hole to mount it to the throttle arm to. Find a different size squirter, install it without dropping anything down the throttle body, readjust the pump arm, go drive it and see if I fixed it. If not, start over again.

EFI: Make a 2 second adjustment on the hand held controller, go drive it and see if I fixed it. If not, 2 more seconds with the handheld.

Idle speed, idle mixture, electric cooling fan control, etc...

All adjustable/tunable with a handheld controller.

Tap the key and it starts...

NO worries about did i pump the throttle too many times when it's cold, and now it's flooded?? Those days are gone.

Yeah, EFI is better in almost every way (except cost).

 

[4Waters]

- Return fitting from EFI throttle body unit isn’t plumbed back to tank. Is it plugged off?

-That EFI unit has an internal fuel pressure regulator, but he is using an external regulator inline that isn’t necessary. Double regulated ain’t double good.....

-Now that we’ve established that the unit is internally regulated, let’s talk about the missing vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator.....

-Vacuum advance isn’t hooked up on distributor

-Insert rivermobster joke about “why is the stupid Chevy distributor in the rear” here

Glad you read all the previous comments and put them all in one post. LOL

 

[Bigbore500r]

Glad you read all the previous comments and put them all in one post. LOL

I didn’t! And now that I read back thru, nobody mentioned the missing vac line to the integral FPR

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

The biggest problem I see with this pic is $$ and NO BRAINS.. can someone sale this guy some clues cause Who ever installed this needs a case of them!!

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

I didn’t! And now that I read back thru, nobody mentioned the missing vac line to the integral FPR

That is a boost reference, most likely a 1:1. So not needed on an NA motor

 

[Willie B]

Almost any EFI is better than a carb...

Temperature compensating. Altitude compensating. O2 sensor/fuel mixture compensating. More efficient (better fuel mileage). Super easy to tune!

Is it hesitating on take off??

Carb: Lemme get my Holly pump cam chart out, select a cam, select what hole to mount it to the throttle arm to. Find a different size squirter, install it without dropping anything down the throttle body, readjust the pump arm, go drive it and see if I fixed it. If not, start over again.

EFI: Make a 2 second adjustment on the hand held controller, go drive it and see if I fixed it. If not, 2 more seconds with the handheld.

Idle speed, idle mixture, electric cooling fan control, etc...

All adjustable/tunable with a handheld controller.

Tap the key and it starts...

NO worries about did i pump the throttle too many times when it's cold, and now it's flooded?? Those days are gone.

Yeah, EFI is better in almost every way (except cost).

...Those notes are better than Cliff could have done...Thanks...
...Having fiddled with a whole bunch of early 70s Mercedes 3.5 and 4.5...Bosch injection I get it...but I imagine they were a bit more simple as smog requirements in the early 70s were close to nil...To this day I still don’t fully know what the computer that was in the Bosch system was exactly supposed to do if working properly...The computer would do Idle adjustment and fuel mixture at a minimum...If I am not mistaken...
...Pretty sure these 50 year old Bosch injectors are what is used when guys convert their old mechanical Hilborns to electronic???...

 

[Shlbyntro]

Almost any EFI is better than a carb...

Temperature compensating. Altitude compensating. O2 sensor/fuel mixture compensating. More efficient (better fuel mileage). Super easy to tune!

Is it hesitating on take off??

Carb: Lemme get my Holly pump cam chart out, select a cam, select what hole to mount it to the throttle arm to. Find a different size squirter, install it without dropping anything down the throttle body, readjust the pump arm, go drive it and see if I fixed it. If not, start over again.

EFI: Make a 2 second adjustment on the hand held controller, go drive it and see if I fixed it. If not, 2 more seconds with the handheld.

Idle speed, idle mixture, electric cooling fan control, etc...

All adjustable/tunable with a handheld controller.

Tap the key and it starts...

NO worries about did i pump the throttle too many times when it's cold, and now it's flooded?? Those days are gone.

Yeah, EFI is better in almost every way (except cost).

EFI kills engines
Carbs just make them not run

4 out of 5 blown engines I replace or rebuild is due to a failed efi component burning up the motor.

4 out of 5 non running carbed motors I work on is solved with a carb rebuild and a tuneup

I own both. I prefer my carbed motors when it comes to gas.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

EFI kills engines
Carbs just make them not run

4 out of 5 blown engines I replace or rebuild is due to a failed efi component burning up the motor.

4 out of 5 non running carbed motors I work on is solved with a carb rebuild and a tuneup

I own both. I prefer my carbed motors when it comes to gas.

That's why modern EFI motors will run 3x the miles, build more hp and use less fuel than a carb motor

 

[24 Sleekenforcer]

The problem with carburetors is most people that know how to overhaul one properly are not around anymore. So newer techs will install fuel injection systems and call it good.

 

[coolchange]

Motor's in backwards.

 

[Shlbyntro]

That's why modern EFI motors will run 3x the miles, build more hp and use less fuel than a carb motor

I'll give you that they're more fuel efficient and that they can make more hp in most cases than a carb. Engine longevity, especially in engines that like to do a lot of sitting [ie hot rods and boats]; that I will not.

 

[welldigger00]

The number one problem with carburetors today is the shitty gasoline that we use. If you leave anything with a carb sit with gas in it, it dries up the seals, and gunks up passages. I run av gas in everything carb’d that I own. No problems after that. The other ritual I have is shutting the petcock off, and running an engine out of fuel, or draining the bowl, on anything I’m gonna park for long periods of time. I have to help my cousin every year with his boat because he doesn’t do these things. Every year, same thing. He says he put a Av gas in and drains the carbs. Nope. Gas blowing over the vents and boat won’t run. Every year I pull the needles out and replace the o rings.


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[Bigbore500r]

That is a boost reference, most likely a 1:1. So not needed on an NA motor

I think it is supposed to be hooked up even in non-blown applications. Drops the fuel pressure a bit under low-load conditions which reduces injector flow rate and helps with metering., especially at idle. Don't they come hooked up from FI-Tech ?

 

[rivermobster]

That's why modern EFI motors will run 3x the miles, build more hp and use less fuel than a carb motor

These days, both car and boat manufacturers and putting fully warrantied blown engines in there vehicles, and they are going unheard of dependable miles.

Top fuel engines use mechanical fuel injection, so I know he's not talking about those.

Everything has its place. On the street, EFI rules.

And I'm pretty sure Mercury isn't using carbs on their 1350 either.

So I dunno what he's working on over there? @Shlbyntro

 

[rivermobster]

I think it is supposed to be hooked up even in non-blown applications. Drops the fuel pressure a bit under low-load conditions which reduces injector flow rate and helps with metering., especially at idle. Don't they come hooked up from FI-Tech ?

Yes. Just can't remember if it's to ported or full manifold vacumm. Gonna call FiTech today for instructions.

Wait till you see what else they did to this car. Pics @ 11

 

[rivermobster]

...Those notes are better than Cliff could have done...Thanks...
...Having fiddled with a whole bunch of early 70s Mercedes 3.5 and 4.5...Bosch injection I get it...but I imagine they were a bit more simple as smog requirements in the early 70s were close to nil...To this day I still don’t fully know what the computer that was in the Bosch system was exactly supposed to do if working properly...The computer would do Idle adjustment and fuel mixture at a minimum...If I am not mistaken...
...Pretty sure these 50 year old Bosch injectors are what is used when guys convert their old mechanical Hilborns to electronic???...

I'm guessing you're talking about mechanical fuel injection here? Same shit I worked on when I worked for Saab. Turbo charged mechanical injection, with an O2 sensor for feedback. Mainly there to keep the converter alive! LoL

It basically only functioned at idle. The rest of the fuel flow spectrum was metered by an air box. Air flowing through it would move a mechanical arm. That arm was attached to a fuel metering block, that controlled the fuel flow to the mechanical injectors. Those injectors plugged up All the time, so they had to be regularly serviced.

Dinasour stuff by today's standards. I think I might still have the books somewhere.

I've never worked on a Hilborne system...

I'd guess @DaveH or @Racey know about those systems?

 

[Bigbore500r]

Yes. Just can't remember if it's to ported or full manifold vacumm. Gonna call FiTech today for instructions.

Wait till you see what else they did to this car. Pics @ 11

I would think full manifold vac. It should keep the fuel pressure at the lower level (58 PSI) until vac drops under high load, then it will bump the pressure up to increase the injector flow rate. Lets them run a smaller injector and make it easier to get the engine idling @ 14.7:1 without having to control "dumping buckets of fuel" lol

 

[rivermobster]

I would think full manifold vac. It should keep the fuel pressure at the lower level (58 PSI) until vac drops under high load, then it will bump the pressure up to increase the injector flow rate. Lets them run a smal
ler injector and make it easier to get the engine idling @ 14.7:1 without having to control "dumping buckets of fuel" lol

Pretty sure it's a GM unit. What are those hooked to normally? I'll verify for sure later today.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Pretty sure it's a GM unit. What are those hooked to normally? I'll verify for sure later today.

The pre 2004 LS motors (the ones with the return line ran to the fuel rails) were hooked to full vac, 1/8" bung off the manifold.

I bet it doesn't feel much different hooked up or not, once the ECM learns it will just scale the injector pulse width back to accomodate the higher pressure under light load. If it was a unit with the big injectors going on a small motor, it might be an issue without it.