Hey, Dave...

[monkeyswrench]

@RiverDave , you know people in the industry, and quite a few of them are local to you. I know you have seen the building and assembly of hulls, plugs, etc..
On the write up you did recently, the transom was a radius modification. Last year, I was talking with a guy at DS about one of the boats, I believe it was a Spooled Up DCB, with a pretty custom bustle deal.
When they do these types of things, not just DCB, builders in general, do they cut up a completed assembly? Is the new rear section mold built, and then glassed in? If that's the case, is gelcoat a bitch, or do they paint? Just curious how the boat world works. I've built some Frankenstein kind of stuff with cars, but welding steel is a bit different. That, and none of my builds have been near the dollar figure or quality level of a new DCB, Skater, MTI, etc.

 

[RiverDave]

@RiverDave , you know people in the industry, and quite a few of them are local to you. I know you have seen the building and assembly of hulls, plugs, etc..
On the write up you did recently, the transom was a radius modification. Last year, I was talking with a guy at DS about one of the boats, I believe it was a Spooled Up DCB, with a pretty custom bustle deal.
When they do these types of things, not just DCB, builders in general, do they cut up a completed assembly? Is the new rear section mold built, and then glassed in? If that's the case, is gelcoat a bitch, or do they paint? Just curious how the boat world works. I've built some Frankenstein kind of stuff with cars, but welding steel is a bit different. That, and none of my builds have been near the dollar figure or quality level of a new DCB, Skater, MTI, etc.

Kind of depends on what you are doing, but overall to answer your question they will build the boat as it is out of the mold, then cut it up.. If you are "adding" to it they will create a pattern and glass off of it then "graft" it onto the boat via fiberglass then gel externally.

If you look at most newer West Coast Cats they are built with what they call a "half cap." usually when they build a boat there is a seem line between top and bottom. Some of them are a butt fit where two edges come together bluntly (rare), in most (95%) cases they are what is called a "shoebox" configuration.. The top will actually have a lip that goes over the bottom and they will "tab" them together with fiberglass tabs to make them one. In some cases (Outerlimits) they will tab them and glue them together etc..

The rub rail you see on the side of boats is generally the seam line where the two halves meet. If you goto www.rubrails.com you can see some of those rub rails will actually have a lip on the bottom of them, that is to cover the shoebox assembly.

So back to the "half cap". When you "Cap" a boat you will tab the halves together and then grind away the overlap and surrounding area then backfill with a "filler" / "glass" (there is a bunch of different ways people are doing this) and make it smooth all the way around the boat. Then they will gel externally and there won't be any rub rail or evidence of where the two halves come together. It's the "clean" look but absolutely sucks for an everyday boat around docks etc..

The "Half Cap". is where they will run a rub rail down the sides of the boat, but they will "cap" the front and rear of the boat.

A recent example of this would be in the boat show report post # 4

Los Angeles Boat Show Report 2020 - Take 2

We got home from the Boat Show and I tried to get things up in a hurry, but honestly been dealing with some kinda ailment and ended up in bed for 4 days. The original intro was "lacking" and just didn't do the show service and being that I didn't have that much into it I decided to scrap it...

www.riverdavesplace.com

That boat has a "euro" swim step (integrated swim step) and wasn't previously offered as an outboard boat. They laid the hull up, then cut away the swim step and filled with glass to get the end result. This boat is also "half capped" You can see it is capped at the nose of the boat and at the transom of the boat. They had to do so much work back there anyways to make it an outboard the 1/2 cap made sense at that point.

Now if they are smart when they created the original one they will take a "pattern" off the back of the new custom one and create an "insert" that will go into the mold. That way the next time they go to lay one up they put the insert in the mold and the new shape will be right out of the mold vs having to do all the work over again.

Think about it in terms of if you had a straight vee bottom mold and then I taped beer cans with duct tape into the bottom of it.. When you laid up the hull you'd have circular reliefs into the bottom of the hull when you pulled the fiberglass part out of the mold.

So when people want to modify the bottoms of boats that more or less what they do (but not with beer cans.. LOL). For example a "delta pad" is a flat spot near the transom on a vee bottom that really works well in some scenarios. The boat will ride on the vee until you trim it up and it will get up on that flat pad and carry the midships / bow out of the water making it faster. They are referred to as "pad" boats etc..

An easy way to create a delta pad in a mold is to wax the ever loving shit out of it / mold release etc.. Then you just pour an epoxy / or hardening liquid into the mold until you get your desired "pad" size. let it cure then pop it out and you have yourself a basic mold insert.

For a v drive when you want cavitation plate recesses. You literally just take aluminum plates and lay them in the mold and lay it up... Pull them out after. This is how Schiada is able to use the same mold for V-Drive / I-O etc..

Make sense?

RD

 

[l84theriv]

Eliminator did one on their 36 speedster in the new boat section and they documented the process of doing the bustle pretty well.


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[l84theriv]

36’ Speedster w/ Bustle Twin 1350 M8s

36’ Speedster w/ Bustle Twin 1350 M8s

Newest edition to the Eliminator lineup. Will feature a walk off transom bustle.

www.riverdavesplace.com

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[RiverDave]

36’ Speedster w/ Bustle Twin 1350 M8s

36’ Speedster w/ Bustle Twin 1350 M8s

Newest edition to the Eliminator lineup. Will feature a walk off transom bustle.

www.riverdavesplace.com

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Fixed your link.

RD

 

[RiverDave]

Example of a full capped 21 Schiada

 

[l84theriv]

Fixed your link.

RD

Thanks I don’t know what the hell I did lol.


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[monkeyswrench]

I have done some limited glass work. For some bizarre speaker enclosures, taped of, foamed and then carved "plugs". Bondo the crap out of it, paint and then grease it with Turtle Wax. Then, I could lay glass on top, and make my mold. The stuff I was doing had to be rigid, for sound quality and durability, but not structural.

When they gel the outside, which seems like a bitch, do they basically treat the mating areas like a gel coat repair? Both pieces are done in color already, but then ground and bonded/gel to match?

 

[fmo24]

I have done some limited glass work. For some bizarre speaker enclosures, taped of, foamed and then carved "plugs". Bondo the crap out of it, paint and then grease it with Turtle Wax. Then, I could lay glass on top, and make my mold. The stuff I was doing had to be rigid, for sound quality and durability, but not structural.

When they gel the outside, which seems like a bitch, do they basically treat the mating areas like a gel coat repair? Both pieces are done in color already, but then ground and bonded/gel to match?

i believe it is handled
Like a normal repair. Colors are blended into existing gel design from mold. Basically a brand new boat with a repair. LOL. Most new boats have some touch up done prior to
Delivery anyways

 

[Crazyhippy]

Capped...

Good reading on the subect.

36’ Speedster w/ Bustle Twin 1350 M8s

Newest edition to the Eliminator lineup. Will feature a walk off transom bustle.

www.riverdavesplace.com

TONS of work... but badass when it's done

 

[copterzach]

Example of a full capped 21 Schiada

View attachment 864535

What’s the story on the Schiafa


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[Thunderhead1]

Capped...

Good reading on the subect.

36’ Speedster w/ Bustle Twin 1350 M8s

Newest edition to the Eliminator lineup. Will feature a walk off transom bustle.

www.riverdavesplace.com

TONS of work... but badass when it's done

That boat is half capped... the other one there doing is has the FULL cap all the way around.

 

[old rigger]

.... Most new boats have some touch up done prior to delivery anyways

You got that right.

 

[stolen]

Interesting. I wondered what people were talking about when they would reference a "cap" or "half-cap", etc. You never hear that with mid-west or east coast boats. You either have a rub rail or you don't.

 

[Crazyhippy]

That boat is half capped... the other one there doing is has the FULL cap all the way around.

Mine is capped... the article was given to show what goes into it, and answer some of the work required.

 

[Melloyellovector]

Example of half cap

 

[RiverDave]

What’s the story on the Schiafa


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A friend of mine.. I am writing an article (announcement) this weekend and it will be up Monday.