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Help me diagnose no-start on my 99 Suburban

pronstar

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It's been a LONG time since I've had to wrench on a car.
Been driving this bad boy somewhat regularly, runs great.

This morning, turn the key, no start.
No sound, no click.
Voltmeter in the gauge cluster does down, and gauges/lights dim a bit, but nothing happens.

Battery is two months old.
Put a voltmeter on the battery, 12.5 volts.
Put a maintainer on it, says fully charged.

I'm thinking it's the starter motor.
Does the old "tap on it with a hammer" trick" really do anything to solve the issue?
I'm thinking that's a temporary dealio at best...

Starter appears original.
When it id work, it didn't seem lazy, but I only recently got the truck from a member here, and I'm not too familiar with SBC's.

I think I need a new starter.
What say the experts?
 

boatpi

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Make sure both battery terminals are clean, take them off and dip in baking soda water cup, re install. Sounds like you have voltage but no amperage. or something is off on the neutral safety switch. Check to make sure the ground cable is secure, I believe it goes to engine block.
 

fishing fool

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Yes





But first check the cables and make sure they have good contact.
 

Bigbore500r

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If you need a starter, check amazon- there is a seller named "DB electric" who sells them super cheap, and they provide an awesome re-man starter for $40.00. The only time i've ever bought a starter and it came with a dyno sheet.....
 

Flyinbowtie

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All of the above. The hammer trick can sometimes free a stuck solenoid, but it isn't a 100% deal. Check the grounds for sure, and have the battery load tested before focusing on the starter. Check the resistance on the power cable down to the starter, as well. Cables can fail internally and look fine on the ends...
 

SoCalZero

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X2 on the terminals. Check the cables too, that snow like to migrate up under the cable insulation.
 

pronstar

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Battery terminals are spotless.
I'll trace the cables down to the starter, and make sure that they're clean on the battery also.

Thanks for the tip on the Amazon seller :thumbsup

One more question:
Assuming it's the starter, this is an easy job for be to do in my driveway, tight?
 

mjc

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Battery terminals are spotless.
I'll trace the cables down to the starter, and make sure that they're clean on the battery also.

Thanks for the tip on the Amazon seller :thumbsup

One more question:
Assuming it's the starter, this is an easy job for be to do in my driveway, tight?
Check the wire in the cable it can corrode inside.
Also check the voltage with a meter if you can while trying to crank it over. If it goes real low battery can be bad.
 

OutCole'd

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All of the above. The hammer trick can sometimes free a stuck solenoid, but it isn't a 100% deal. Check the grounds for sure, and have the battery load tested before focusing on the starter. Check the resistance on the power cable down to the starter, as well. Cables can fail internally and look fine on the ends...

X2!:thumbsup
 

OutCole'd

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Battery terminals are spotless.
I'll trace the cables down to the starter, and make sure that they're clean on the battery also.

Thanks for the tip on the Amazon seller :thumbsup

One more question:
Assuming it's the starter, this is an easy job for be to do in my driveway, tight?

Should be an easy replacement, even you could do it.:D
 

charred1

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Might be a completely different issue, but a buddy at work had a similar problem a few months back on his surburban. Check your security light. When you insert your key and turn to the "on" position, but do not start...check the security light. It should flash and then go out. If the light does NOT go out, then the vehicle won't start. On my friends rig, if he left the key in the ignition in the "on" position for about 5 minutes, then turn back to "off" and then back to start, it would usually fire up. Ended up being the transponder chip in the key wasn't reading properly.
 

wsuwrhr

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Battery terminals are spotless.
I'll trace the cables down to the starter, and make sure that they're clean on the battery also.

Thanks for the tip on the Amazon seller :thumbsup

One more question:
Assuming it's the starter, this is an easy job for be to do in my driveway, tight?

Right, just sayin. :)

Easy job. The car is high enough you don't even need a jack.

Make sure you have the starter tested when you take it off.
 

wsuwrhr

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Might be a completely different issue, but a buddy at work had a similar problem a few months back on his surburban. Check your security light. When you insert your key and turn to the "on" position, but do not start...check the security light. It should flash and then go out. If the light does NOT go out, then the vehicle won't start. On my friends rig, if he left the key in the ignition in the "on" position for about 5 minutes, then turn back to "off" and then back to start, it would usually fire up. Ended up being the transponder chip in the key wasn't reading properly.

This exactly. My mother in laws Tahoe did the same thing last year, but that is a 2006.

Not sure about the 99 security features though.
 

McRib

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You should be able to get that starter changed with basic hand tools and yore lil Asian hands no problem. Make sure you disconnect the battery before you touch it.
 

SBMech

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You already got a DVOM so this will be easy.

Hook your meter to the #50 terminal wire on the starter ( the smaller one on the solenoid) and hit the key, if you see battery voltage the solenoid is stuck, needs a starter.

Smacking the solenoid will free it for a few days/starts...what happens is wear in the bore and on the end contacts eventually cause the piston to "weld" itself to the inner core, not allowing the piston to hit the two contacts.

If you are not getting voltage to the starter, try it in neutral, the neutral safety switches go bad on the tranny. If it starts in neutral then you need a switch.

If you get nothing in either position, but have full battery voltage, you might need an ignition switch. Post up results to this point and I'll give more details if you need the ign switch.

The security system will allow it to crank but not start.....so that's probably not the issue.

P.S. 12.5 volts static is only 75% charged...still enough to start it though.
 

Bigbore500r

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You already got a DVOM so this will be easy.

Hook your meter to the #50 terminal wire on the starter ( the smaller one on the solenoid) and hit the key, if you see battery voltage the solenoid is stuck, needs a starter.

Smacking the solenoid will free it for a few days/starts...what happens is wear in the bore and on the end contacts eventually cause the piston to "weld" itself to the inner core, not allowing the piston to hit the two contacts.

If you are not getting voltage to the starter, try it in neutral, the neutral safety switches go bad on the tranny. If it starts in neutral then you need a switch.

If you get nothing in either position, but have full battery voltage, you might need an ignition switch. Post up results to this point and I'll give more details if you need the ign switch.

The security system will allow it to crank but not start.....so that's probably not the issue.

P.S. 12.5 volts static is only 75% charged...still enough to start it though.

Pretty much the end all / be all of how you need to go about this......awesome post!
 

rvrrun

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Might be a completely different issue, but a buddy at work had a similar problem a few months back on his surburban. Check your security light. When you insert your key and turn to the "on" position, but do not start...check the security light. It should flash and then go out. If the light does NOT go out, then the vehicle won't start. On my friends rig, if he left the key in the ignition in the "on" position for about 5 minutes, then turn back to "off" and then back to start, it would usually fire up. Ended up being the transponder chip in the key wasn't reading properly.

Good idea, but it wont be that. Lights are dimming when he turns the key. It's the starter/solenoid.

Beat it with a hammer if it's not too tight in there, but replace asap.

My wife's Durango did a similar thing. The main lug on the solenoid had broken away from the plastic. Wiggling the cable got it to the parts store to pick up a new one. I doubt that's the problem with yours but it's worth a shot.
 

Racey

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You already got a DVOM so this will be easy.

Hook your meter to the #50 terminal wire on the starter ( the smaller one on the solenoid) and hit the key, if you see battery voltage the solenoid is stuck, needs a starter.

Smacking the solenoid will free it for a few days/starts...what happens is wear in the bore and on the end contacts eventually cause the piston to "weld" itself to the inner core, not allowing the piston to hit the two contacts.

If you are not getting voltage to the starter, try it in neutral, the neutral safety switches go bad on the tranny. If it starts in neutral then you need a switch.

If you get nothing in either position, but have full battery voltage, you might need an ignition switch. Post up results to this point and I'll give more details if you need the ign switch.

The security system will allow it to crank but not start.....so that's probably not the issue.

P.S. 12.5 volts static is only 75% charged...still enough to start it though.

All of this, and the possibility of the secondary relay that triggers the solenoid on the starter could be bad (i'm not sure if a 99 GM has one, but many vehicles do) an easy way to check is open the fuse/relay box under the hood and look for a relay named labeled "starter" swap it with another one that is not critical for the engine to run and try to start it.
 

fishing fool

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Get the starter tested before replacing.
Make sure the car is in neutral
 

pronstar

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Ok I was mistaken...just got home and gave it a try. The radio powers off when I turn the key, but the lights don't dim at all.

No security light either.
And no difference if in neutral or park.

Vatozone doesn't carry the starter I need so they'd have to order it...got one coming from Amazon, as Saturday is the only day I could possibly work on it, and I want the part in hand.

But given this new bit of info, does it change any of your previously posted opinions?

I'll still do the troubleshooting of the wiring, cables etc.

And I'll put a voltmeter on the starter to see if it pulls any current when they key turns (doubtful since the lights don't dim).


And sure as shit as I type this and fuck with the key, it just decided to started right up.

What choo think?
 

wsuwrhr

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Starter switch?

...another electrical gremlin?

Brian

Ok I was mistaken...just got home and gave it a try. The radio powers off when I turn the key, but the lights don't dim at all.

No security light either.
And no difference if in neutral or park.

Vatozone doesn't carry the starter I need so they'd have to order it...got one coming from Amazon, as Saturday is the only day I could possibly work on it, and I want the part in hand.

But given this new bit of info, does it change any of your previously posted opinions?

I'll still do the troubleshooting of the wiring, cables etc.

And I'll put a voltmeter on the starter to see if it pulls any current when they key turns (doubtful since the lights don't dim).


And sure as shit as I type this and fuck with the key, it just decided to started right up.

What choo think?
 

rvrrun

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Ok I was mistaken...just got home and gave it a try. The radio powers off when I turn the key, but the lights don't dim at all.

No security light either.
And no difference if in neutral or park.

Vatozone doesn't carry the starter I need so they'd have to order it...got one coming from Amazon, as Saturday is the only day I could possibly work on it, and I want the part in hand.

But given this new bit of info, does it change any of your previously posted opinions?

I'll still do the troubleshooting of the wiring, cables etc.

And I'll put a voltmeter on the starter to see if it pulls any current when they key turns (doubtful since the lights don't dim).


And sure as shit as I type this and fuck with the key, it just decided to started right up.

What choo think?

Always type when trying to start it?

That's weird that the radio turns off, but the headlights don't dim.
 

milkmoney

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Ok I was mistaken...just got home and gave it a try. The radio powers off when I turn the key, but the lights don't dim at all.

No security light either.
And no difference if in neutral or park.

Vatozone doesn't carry the starter I need so they'd have to order it...got one coming from Amazon, as Saturday is the only day I could possibly work on it, and I want the part in hand.

But given this new bit of info, does it change any of your previously posted opinions?

I'll still do the troubleshooting of the wiring, cables etc.

And I'll put a voltmeter on the starter to see if it pulls any current when they key turns (doubtful since the lights don't dim).


And sure as shit as I type this and fuck with the key, it just decided to started right up.

What choo think?
Is vatozone only in Texas? Lol.
I sat drive into the drink and move on to another vehicle [emoji202]
 

TrollerDave

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Ok I was mistaken...just got home and gave it a try. The radio powers off when I turn the key, but the lights don't dim at all.

No security light either.
And no difference if in neutral or park.

Vatozone doesn't carry the starter I need so they'd have to order it...got one coming from Amazon, as Saturday is the only day I could possibly work on it, and I want the part in hand.

But given this new bit of info, does it change any of your previously posted opinions?

I'll still do the troubleshooting of the wiring, cables etc.

And I'll put a voltmeter on the starter to see if it pulls any current when they key turns (doubtful since the lights don't dim).


And sure as shit as I type this and fuck with the key, it just decided to started right up.

What choo think?

My 02 Silverado with a 4.8 did the same thing, intermittent start. It was the starter. Only took about 30 mins to change, very easy.
 

pronstar

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Always type when trying to start it?

That's weird that the radio turns off, but the headlights don't dim.

I wanted to post up the details as I was seeing them, and gave her the 'ol college try and blamo, it started right up.
 

rrrr

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Dood, give up on Autozone. If it's not in a blister pack on the pegboard, they don't have it. Switch to O'Reilly.
 

SBMech

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The radio turns off because it has a starter relay, the BCM turns off non essential equipment when cranking.

Before you spend money on a starter I would continue to play with it until you figure it out.

Having the meter on the starter wire will tell you all you really need to know about where to look to finish up the diagnosis.

Voltage at the wire = starter.

No voltage = ign switch, neutral switch, or relay.

Problem is now you done scared it...it will probably be fine for months now hah! :D

Just curious...how is the key/ign tumbler? Is it loosy goosy? Can you pull it out while it's in run? Does the cylinder feel loose in the lock housing?

There is a problem that occurs inside the lock housing when the tumbler gets worn, it won't push the rod to the starter switch far enough anymore....
 

McRib

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99 suburban? What happened to the fiat gay male magnet you had?
 

pronstar

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The radio turns off because it has a starter relay, the BCM turns off non essential equipment when cranking.

Before you spend money on a starter I would continue to play with it until you figure it out.

Having the meter on the starter wire will tell you all you really need to know about where to look to finish up the diagnosis.

Voltage at the wire = starter.

No voltage = ign switch, neutral switch, or relay.

Problem is now you done scared it...it will probably be fine for months now hah! :D

Just curious...how is the key/ign tumbler? Is it loosy goosy? Can you pull it out while it's in run? Does the cylinder feel loose in the lock housing?

There is a problem that occurs inside the lock housing when the tumbler gets worn, it won't push the rod to the starter switch far enough anymore....

The ignition tumbler feel pretty solid I think. Not a ton of play in it.

I haven't tried to pull the key when it's running, I will when I get home [emoji106]
 

racered

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You must disconnect a side post battery cable terminal to check if it is "clean"... I believe your 99 chev will have two cables bundled at the positive terminal of the battery. You MUST remove this connection to check and clean the cables under the red insulator. Take the positive bundle apart by removing the bolt from the cable end and slide the red insulator off. Clean the parts, put them back together.
After both battery cables are checked and cleaned, reconnect the battery, any further diagnostic for "starter does not operate" begins at the starter relay socket in the fuse /relay block under the hood. Very simple.
My money is on the positive cable ends at the battery. Very Very common fail.
Nobody cleans their battery connections until they crap.:grumble:
 

socalrzr

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Dood, give up on Autozone. If it's not in a blister pack on the pegboard, they don't have it. Switch to O'Reilly.

Thats funny. Autozone couldn't help you pic an air freshener if you dont know what trim package your car has.
 

pronstar

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My battery and cables are extremely clean but I'm going to diagnose the shit out of his thing so I don't get stranded somewhere LOL

New starter is going on regardless, at 18 years old it's time [emoji4]
 

SBMech

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My battery and cables are extremely clean but I'm going to dig nose the shot out of his thing so I don't get stranded somewhere LOL

New starter is going on regardless, at 18 years old it's time [emoji4]

Time has nothing to do with it when we are talking mechanical/electronic parts, more like hours of operation. If it's got like 150k+ on the clock, then that is a good call anyhow. :thumbsup

Post up any relative info and we'll get it sorted in short order bud.

Hopefully you can get it to do something to solidify an answer, intermittent stuff can drive ya nuts! :D
 

rrrr

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Thats funny. Autozone couldn't help you pic an air freshener if you dont know what trim package your car has.

.

There's an O'Reilly store five minutes from my house. When I replaced the timing belt, water pump, tensioner, etc. on my wife's car last week, they either had all the parts I needed or had them delivered to the store within a three hour window. Every warrantied part I have ever purchased from O'Reilly is tied to my cell phone number in their computer system.

The rebuilt alternator I installed on my daily driver six years ago gave it up in March. I took the part to the store, they looked up my account, and handed me a replacement. No screwing around finding a six year old receipt, I had the part in hand and was out the door in ten minutes. Boom.
 

SBMech

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.

There's an O'Reilly store five minutes from my house. When I replaced the timing belt, water pump, tensioner, etc. on my wife's car last week, they either had all the parts I needed or had them delivered to the store within a three hour window. Every warrantied part I have ever purchased from O'Reilly is tied to my cell phone number in their computer system.

The rebuilt alternator I installed on my daily driver six years ago gave it up in March. I took the part to the store, they looked up my account, and handed me a replacement. No screwing around finding a six year old receipt, I had the part in hand and was out the door in ten minutes. Boom.

Well..the first one probably lasted 15 years lol....they sell garbage man, warrantied or not, it still costs you time when their crap fails.

Truthfully though, all after market parts are total shit compared to what the vehicle was built with, even using dealer or OEM parts you have triple the failure rates and 1/3 of the longevity... it sucks. :grumble:
 

rrrr

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Well..the first one probably lasted 15 years lol....they sell garbage man, warrantied or not, it still costs you time when their crap fails.

Truthfully though, all after market parts are total shit compared to what the vehicle was built with, even using dealer or OEM parts you have triple the failure rates and 1/3 of the longevity... it sucks. :grumble:

.

Remember last week when I was spending time and money working on my wife's car?

You said:

.

SBMech said:
Even if you reup into a replacement vehicle, you are right back usually close to where you started, but with a vehicle you DON'T know the history of, and usually the ride from 80k to 150k is pretty rough depending on your luck as far as actual repair/maint costs.

.

I think that's great advice. Some posters said I should dump the car because I was spending $400 on parts to fix it. That's stupid IMO.

But on the other hand, I won't buy OEM parts to fix my 12 year old Acura. They're too expensive. The belt and tensioner I got from O'Reilly was manufactured by Gates, and they are the supplier to Acura for OEM parts to build the engine.

Rebuilt alternators and starters are gonna shit the bed within 5-7 years. I'm OK with that, they're easy to change.
 

Sleek-Jet

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I'm surprised no one has suggested shorting across the solenoid terminals with a screw driver... yet... :D

That trick has gotten me home once or twice.
 

ElAzul

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Does it have a factory or aftermarket alarm? Starter kill could be activated.
 

Kachina26

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Does it have a factory or aftermarket alarm? Starter kill could be activated.
Or the minimum wage guy that was wiring 50 units a day could have just made a sloppy connection. I used to remove a lot of those when I was in the business. It may not even 'have' the theft prevention in there, but it may have been wired for it.
 

rrrr

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Or the minimum wage guy that was wiring 50 units a day could have just made a sloppy connection. I used to remove a lot of those when I was in the business. It may not even 'have' the theft prevention in there, but it may have been wired for it.

But that defect wouldn't suddenly surface 18 years after the car was built. There are a bunch of "out there" guesses in this thread.

I'll go with the most likely problem based on the OP's statements and the behavior of the vehicle.

The starter.
 

racered

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After the battery cables are eliminated from suspicion, pull the starter relay and look at the wiring diagram printed on the side of the relay, note the terminals that are connected when the relay is activated. #30 is battery 12v, #87 is starter solenoid. Closing this circuit is the "screwdriver test" to activate the starter. Testing #85 and #86 confirms the BCM commands "starter crank" by closing #30 and #87.
simple.
 
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