HAVASU INFRASTRUCTURE

[2FORCEFULL]

First off, I will admit, I'm part of the problem... I saw the opportunity, and grabbed it... I've built homes there for profit.... So whats gonna happen now... they have no money for roads, and infrastructure to fit the needs of the population explosion... is it fair to tax those that have lived there for 20 plus years??? or put the tax on the new home builders??? there are people that live in havasu try'n to make ends meet,... do they just get run out of town because they can't afford property tax????

 

[Englewood]

Where does all the tax revenue go?

 

[lbhsbz]

Where does all the tax revenue go?

Rack storage

 

[HALLETT BOY]

Where does all the tax revenue go?

Pensions and salaries

 

[hallett21]

Tax everyone. The new builds have increased everyone’s property value. The builders are already being taxed at the building department.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

First off, I will admit, I'm part of the problem... I saw the opportunity, and grabbed it... I've built homes there for profit.... So whats gonna happen now... they have no money for roads, and infrastructure to fit the needs of the population explosion... is it fair to tax those that have lived there for 20 plus years??? or put the tax on the new home builders??? there are people that live in havasu try'n to make ends meet,... do they just get run out of town because they can't afford property tax????

Property tax increases are capped if I remember right and can be frozen depending on your income/value at retirement age (I forget the exact age). The increased home values are going to hit tax wise though, and its going to hurt the fixed income elderly the most. The city has a very solid revenue stream... I could see the city passing some kind of special tax district (they should imo) on new developments to fund infrastructure needs, but that may already be happening in havasu... Just thinking outloud from other cities/states I've worked in and how they did it. They had a certain number of years that the property tax was higher then went to "normal."

Bigger issue is "affordable workforce housing," which is a term being misapplied by a number of people at the city, and developers alike. The service industry workers have gotten hammered and many have left over not being able to afford rent anymore. Key word is RENT not buy. Until some public/private partnerships start happening with structured rent tied to income (with incentives for the builders/owners), I don't see that issue going away. The city council isn't serious about fixing the problem, and won't ever be until it gets worse than it currently is IMO. If the right people in town figure out how to make money on it then you will see the opposition to it go away...Income restricted rentals were a cash cow back in HI, they got tons of tax, grants, and other incentives. The projects we worked on made a handful of people a truckload of money.

 

[2Driver]

Its always about where to get more money from citizen's, its never inward facing on how to be more efficient like a private company would

 

[jailbird141]

We should start a thread to worry every property owner in Havasu. That will cause a great sell off and bring property values plummeting, which will in turn lower the population and decreasing the need for infrastructure improvements! Problem solved! Next doom and gloom thread?

 

[rivermobster]

Prop 13 don't look so bad now does it...

CA is closed.

What I need to know about Property Taxes in Arizona

Arizona is a wonderful place to settle in and call home. Affordable housing, great climate, tons of activities, and another perk: Property Taxes. Here in Maricopa county our tax base is very affordable compared to many other states. But it … Continue reading →

arizonaehomes.com

Let’s see how it breaks down

$200,000 [Full Cash Value] x .1 [or 10%] = $20,000 [Assessed Value]

$20,000 [Assessed Value] x .13 [Tax Rate of 13%] = $2,600

or

$200,000 x .013 [or 1.3%] = $2,600

 

[mjc]

Property tax increases are capped if I remember right and can be frozen depending on your income/value at retirement age (I forget the exact age). The increased home values are going to hit tax wise though, and its going to hurt the fixed income elderly the most. The city has a very solid revenue stream... I could see the city passing some kind of special tax district (they should imo) on new developments to fund infrastructure needs, but that may already be happening in havasu... Just thinking outloud from other cities/states I've worked in and how they did it. They had a certain number of years that the property tax was higher then went to "normal."

Bigger issue is "affordable workforce housing," which is a term being misapplied by a number of people at the city, and developers alike. The service industry workers have gotten hammered and many have left over not being able to afford rent anymore. Key word is RENT not buy. Until some public/private partnerships start happening with structured rent tied to income (with incentives for the builders/owners), I don't see that issue going away. The city council isn't serious about fixing the problem, and won't ever be until it gets worse than it currently is IMO. If the right people in town figure out how to make money on it then you will see the opposition to it go away...Income restricted rentals were a cash cow back in HI, they got tons of tax, grants, and other incentives. The projects we worked on made a handful of people a truckload of money.

They are building some small condo type units right by me, 401 sq ft. They will be cheaper but by how much.

 

[stoker22405]

First off, I will admit, I'm part of the problem... I saw the opportunity, and grabbed it... I've built homes there for profit.... So whats gonna happen now... they have no money for roads, and infrastructure to fit the needs of the population explosion... is it fair to tax those that have lived there for 20 plus years??? or put the tax on the new home builders??? there are people that live in havasu try'n to make ends meet,... do they just get run out of town because they can't afford property tax????

Yes

 

[BIGRED9158]

Rack storage

I was going to say speed utv for the head quarters they are building

 

[Englewood]

I was going to say speed utv for the head quarters they are building

The only thing taking longer than a Speed UTV is the Speed UTV building.

 

[BIGRED9158]

The only thing taking longer than a Speed UTV is the Speed UTV building.

Speaking of taking forever is the bug done yet???

 

[Englewood]

Speaking of taking forever is the bug done yet???

Damnit. I deserve that.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

First off, I will admit, I'm part of the problem... I saw the opportunity, and grabbed it... I've built homes there for profit.... So whats gonna happen now... they have no money for roads, and infrastructure to fit the needs of the population explosion... is it fair to tax those that have lived there for 20 plus years??? or put the tax on the new home builders??? there are people that live in havasu try'n to make ends meet,... do they just get run out of town because they can't afford property tax????

I've been pondering this question for my small town in MT. Might be similar as it's a tourist town mostly with little manufacturing but plenty of agriculture. Launch ramps are free, and there are multiple choices within the town. Low-income service worker housing is a problem. We don't have sales tax in MT.

A few ideas I have considered that might be worth discussing.

Parking Meters. Yes, there is some overhead; from what I have seen, the ROI is pretty good. We have designations on our license plates that show which county you live in, so we could exempt local residents from paying for parking, which could be managed easily. Puts the cost on tourists. Beta test it on the main street and the launch ramp parking lots.

Require licensing for STR property. If I were king, I would use a sliding scale so that the family renting the casita a couple of months a year doesn't get as hard as the investors with multiple properties. If you have three or more STR, I will stick it to you with an annual license fee. It is not hard to see who is doing STRs, and I am sure a few homeowners would welcome the leverage against the party palace.

Outside the box thinking here and maybe a bad idea, but in LHC, I think I would tax bagged Ice. The locals would buy ice makers, and the tourists would foot the bill. $0.50 a bag could add up fast. I can't recall thinking about how much a bag of ice costs.


I'm sympathetic to the cost-saving argument. I get pissed twice a year when I manage price increases, but the manufacturing plant and procurement are not asked to look for cost savings.

 

[2Driver]

Any city USA

Once all the town employees are making $150—$300k and are vested in their lifetime full pensions can we begin to think about allotting any of your tax revenues towards the town‘s needs.
Until then, if you expect anything to be accomplished then vote in a tax increase on yourself.

 

[BIGRED9158]

Damnit. I deserve that.

For real though is it done!?

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Any city USA

Once all the town employees are making $150—$300k and are vested in their lifetime full pensions can we begin to think about allotting any tax revenues towards the town‘s needs.
Until then, if you expect anything to be accomplished then vote in a tax increase on yourself.

If all the town employees are making $150k-$300K, I need to rethink my career choice. @angiebaby, find yourself a city job. I want the job watering the hanging plants on main street.

 

[2Driver]

If all the town employees are making $150k-$300K, I need to rethink my career choice. @angiebaby, find yourself a city job. I want the job watering the hanging plants on main street.

Our town manager of only 3,500 citizens makes $185K plus full pension and benefits. The old town Manager retired 7 years ago with a $100k pension and benefits. So our little town is paying for 2 full time managers and fully burdened at about $350k + a year. I suspect the current guy will retire so we will have 3 soon.

LOL and our roads are falling apart and past due for paving by 7 years. His comment to me about the streets was, well you guys wont vote in a tax increase

 

[Racey]

Fucking amazing that you pay:

Gas and Registration taxes to fund the roads
Property taxes to fund Schools, Fire dept, streets, utilities etc.
Water bill funds water dept
Sewer bill funds sewer dept
Electric bill funds electric dept....
Income taxes fund it all.

Property values go up, taxes go up
Property values go down, taxes go up

And they still want more.

 

[DLC]

LHC has had multiple years of over inflated property sales -

for instance a storage unit
2019 was $50,000
2022 is $150,000

They have also had a Huge increase of high end homes built. As an example look at the homes / developments on the island.

they have had a windfall of increased property tax revenue for quite a few years

sounds like mis management if they are already talking increases!

maybe a special tax / or an increase on short term rentals / hotel rooms was needed during Covid when every weekend was booked

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

They are building some small condo type units right by me, 401 sq ft. They will be cheaper but by how much.

They wont be cheaper. There will never be "workforce housing" in Havasu, ever. It does not pay compared to bigger houses and developments that would attract tourists and investors.

 

[2Driver]

Our taxes on our 1400’ house and cabana in Parker was $4,200 a year. I’m sure that’s going up.

One year LaPaz county mistakenly reclassed our cabanas and the tax went from 450 to $1,100. They fixed the error the next year but refused to refund their mistake.

 

[monkeyswrench]

They wont be cheaper. There will never be "workforce housing" in Havasu, ever. It does not pay compared to bigger houses and developments that would attract tourists and investors.

What I have seen in the cycle is when customs and spec slow, the same investors know what strings to pull for "low income housing". This could mean "projects", or "senior" housing. Both are considered "low income", and always seem to have fed money attached. Don't know what the qualifications were, or city/state. If I were a baller, that's where I'd be looking for funds.

 

[baja-chris]

Add or increase the bed tax on STR and hotels. Standard practice in resort towns.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

What I have seen in the cycle is when customs and spec slow, the same investors know what strings to pull for "low income housing". This could mean "projects", or "senior" housing. Both are considered "low income", and always seem to have fed money attached. Don't know what the qualifications were, or city/state. If I were a baller, that's where I'd be looking for funds.

Havasu can't even build housing tracts for people that can afford vacation homes. My guess is that low income money would go to Kingman instead.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Fucking amazing that you pay:


And they still want more.

Who is they?

Are they the elected officials?

I'm not really in a position to be critical as we have chosen to be nomadic, but it seems the best way to hold people accountable is to become THEY.

My family laughs at me when I say I don't want to live in an HOA area. They respond that the HOA does not want me to live in an HOA area because I will take it over.

I will admit it is pretty hard to unwind bureaucracy and high-salary underperformers, but it is not impossible.

 

[2Driver]

No matter what revenues they bring in they will spend 105% of it and be back asking for more.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Havasu can't even build housing tracts for people that can afford vacation homes. My guess is that low income money would go to Kingman instead.

When I lived on Catalina Island back in the '80s, I lived in a company-owned dorm. It was an awesome communal experience with a shared cooking area and coin-operated showers.

I've always wanted to build something like that for younger seasonal workers, but the do-gooders would require me to rent to families, and it would get wrecked by losers with multi-daddy kids who can't take care of themselves.

I always thought those types of housing units would be awesome STR in places like Moab.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

When I lived on Catalina Island back in the '80s, I lived in a company-owned dorm. It was an awesome communal experience with a shared cooking area and coin-operated showers.

I've always wanted to build something like that for younger seasonal workers, but the do-gooders would require me to rent to families, and it would get wrecked by losers with multi-daddy kids who can't take care of themselves.

I always thought those types of housing units would be awesome STR in places like Moab.

They would be awesome in places like that, They would be destroyed in days by the Havasu rental clientele, as you indicated

 

[rivermobster]

What I have seen in the cycle is when customs and spec slow, the same investors know what strings to pull for "low income housing". This could mean "projects", or "senior" housing. Both are considered "low income", and always seem to have fed money attached. Don't know what the qualifications were, or city/state. If I were a baller, that's where I'd be looking for funds.

For sure that's a CA thing. Every city HAS to have X amount of low income housing.

Does AZ have these requirements as well?

 

[monkeyswrench]

For sure that's a CA thing. Every city HAS to have X amount of low income housing.

Does AZ have these requirements as well?

Ca had a mandate of some percentage of new construction having to be...or at least they did. I can't see them scaling back, but who knows. There are fed programs, both loans and grants I believe, to help with the building of multi-unit "affordable housing".

It will always be a money thing. Right now, guys building on spec are still doing fine. No investor wants to get involved with government type paperwork unless they have to. With the way some of the rules have changed, I'd almost wonder if they'd want subs to be paid prevailing wage if you are using a government subsidy like that.

This type of stuff is far beyond my pay grade. I did sub work on some new apartment buildings, but never cared how they payed, as long as the checks cleared.

 

[ElAzul]

Nothing of value to add except taxes are bullshit. You give real dollar's and get denairs back in upkeep and improvement but hey someone's gotta get paid

 

[EmpirE231]

Any city USA

Once all the town employees are making $150—$300k and are vested in their lifetime full pensions can we begin to think about allotting any of your tax revenues towards the town‘s needs.
Until then, if you expect anything to be accomplished then vote in a tax increase on yourself.

This right here… never fails.

 

[EmpirE231]

You can sit and ponder and debate ideas, but at the end of the day, nothing will change without tax increases every 5-7 years. Government is not in business to be efficient or good with money.

Great example… CA teachers all got a raise last year. Enrollment is down across the board. They just had a 1.5yr vacation. No teachers are being fired etc.

 

[TCHB]

How many additional homes have been built in Havasu in the past 24 months. 2,000?

 

[mesquito_creek]

Property taxes = rent… nobody really owns real estate in the US.

The only relief for seniors in AZ is if you meet these:

• The property owner must be 65 or older.
• Property must be the owner's primary residence.
• Owner must have resided in the residence for at least two years.
• Property owner's annual income must be under $35,184 if one owner or under $43,980 if there are two or more owners.

 

[rivermobster]

Property taxes = rent… nobody really owns real estate in the US.

The only relief for seniors in AZ is if you meet these:

• The property owner must be 65 or older.
• Property must be the owner's primary residence.
• Owner must have resided in the residence for at least two years.
• Property owner's annual income must be under $35,184 if one owner or under $43,980 if there are two or more owners.

Unlikely that's gonna happen for most peeps...

And the initial property tax rate is insane! How the fuck are people able to retire there??

You gotta have some Serious income and that's gonna bump you right out of any tax relief!

CA is closed. Buh bye now!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Unlikely that's gonna happen for most peeps...

And the initial property tax rate is insane! How the fuck are people able to retire there??

You gotta have some Serious income and that's gonna bump you right out of any tax relief!

CA is closed. Buh bye now!

The houses are 1/2 the price for the same house in East Corona, I mean AZ.

The property tax on my house in CA was triple my house in AZ.

You understand the income tax rate in 1/2 to 1/3 of CA depending on your income..

Yea let’s cry about another thousand of property taxes as you pay tens of thousands more in income tax, sales taxes, fees, etc

 

[rivermobster]

The houses are 1/2 the price in East Corona.

I was thinking Norco...

Prop 13 allows you to take your tax rate with you when you move (in most counties).

I could buy a million dollar property there and only pay the 2600 per year I'm paying now, on my current almost million dollar property.

But I'd have acres instead of sq ft.

Just a thought.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I was thinking Norco...

Prop 13 allows you to take your tax rate with you when you move (in most counties).

I could buy a million dollar property there and only pay the 2600 per year I'm paying now, on my current almost million dollar property.

But I'd have acres instead of sq ft.

Just a thought.

Yes it does.. and retirees are still moving out in droves.

My parents are paying $1700/year in property taxes for their house they have had since ‘78 and are still on their way out.

The savings in income tax alone is more than makes up for any property tax savings.

Hell the savings in car registration and insurance covers a lot of the difference.

You understand the income tax rate in AZ is 1/2 to 1/3 of CA depending on your income..

Yea let’s cry about another thousand of property taxes as you pay tens of thousands more in income tax, sales taxes, fees, etc.

 

[rivermobster]

Yes it does.. and retirees are still moving out in droves.

My parents are paying $1700/year in property taxes for their house they have had since ‘78 and are still on their way out.

The savings in income tax alone is more than makes up for any property tax savings.

Hell the savings in car registration and insurance covers a lot of the difference.

You understand the income tax rate in AZ is 1/2 to 1/3 of CA depending on your income..

Yea let’s cry about another thousand of property taxes as you pay tens of thousands more in income tax, sales taxes, fees, etc.

Ive never really seriously penciled it all out...

If I buy a million dollar property in AZ, I'd be paying 13k a year in property taxes, yeah?

That's 10,400.00 in savings I'd have to find JUST to break even, much less come out ahead!

Where is that savings gonna come from???

I'm not really sure I want a 13k a year tax bill on a fixed income. Msh less the unchecked increases that will certainly be following it.

I'd need a spreadsheet and some time to see if it actually makes sense, but on the surface, it sounds insane.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Ive never really seriously penciled it all out...

If I buy a million dollar property in AZ, I'd be paying 13k a year in property taxes, yeah?

That's 10,400.00 in savings I'd have to find JUST to break even, much less come out ahead!

Where is that savings gonna come from???

I'm not really sure I want a 13k a year tax bill on a fixed income. Msh less the unchecked increases that will certainly be following it.

I'd need a spreadsheet and some time to see if it actually makes sense, but on the surface, it sounds insane.

That premise is shaky to start. A million dollar property in CA is not the same as a million dollar property in AZ. An apples to apples property will cost at best in AZ. But let’s say sure you spent $1M in AZ, and let’s say you spent $1m in CA, and magically did not have to pay any extra assessments or other crap in addition to the property tax.

If you made 100k in income you’d be most of the way there..the income tax rate is in AZ is about 4% and CA is about 9%. There is $5k of savings.

You will find another $3000 in cost of living savings in AZ easily. Most people that don’t overspend on a house find a 5-8% raise.

If what you said is true no one would live in places like TX, NV, AZ and other states and people would t be moving out of CA because it’s too expensive.

My parents just did this math. It’s easily 10% more money in their pockets monthly moving to a similar sized property out of state.

 

[rivermobster]

That premise is shaky to start. A million dollar property in CA is not the same as a million dollar property in AZ. Apples to apples it will be half at best. But let’s say sure you spent $1M in AZ,and let’s say you spent $1m in CA, and magically did not have to pay any extra assessments or other crap.

If you made 100k in income you’d be most of the way there..the income tax rate is in AZ is about 4% and CA is about 9%. There is $5k.

You will find another $3000 in cost of living savings in AZ easily.

If I wanted to move to Lake Havasu City...

And retain my current property tax base...

These are the properties that would work...

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

If I wanted to move to Lake Havasu City...

And retain my current property tax base...

These are the properties that would work...

View attachment 1153240

If you wanted to trip over $100 to pick up $10 sure, go ahead.

 

[badgas]

I was thinking Norco...

Prop 13 allows you to take your tax rate with you when you move (in most counties).

I could buy a million dollar property there and only pay the 2600 per year I'm paying now, on my current almost million dollar property.

But I'd have acres instead of sq ft.

Just a thought.

Actually Prop 19 overides prop 13 now.

At age 55 you can move your property tax base up to 3 times anywhere in the state and counties no longer apply. You can also do it if you are displaced becasue of a wildfire.

I'm eyeballing this one because I will be 55 in 14 months. Downsizing before then would come with a big tax increase becasue I have been in my home for 23 years.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Actually Prop 19 overides prop 13 now.

At age 55 you can move your property tax base up to 3 times anywhere in the state and counties no longer apply. You can also do it if you are displaced becasue of a wildfire.

I'm eyeballing this one because I will be 55 in 14 months. Downsizing before then would come with a big tax increase becasue I have been in my home for 23 years.

Prop 19 also sucks because you can’t pass that property tax rate to your kids.

 

[DLow]

All of you guys complaining about your tax dollars paying for pensions need to start going to the city council meetings and tell them you want to cut funding for police and fire pay and pensions… yes, DEFUND the police and fire departments. That’s what you want, right?
Inflation goes up, cost of living goes up, taxes go up, pay goes up… except for city workers. They don’t get increases because that’s just not fair!!! This website full of middle to upper class citizens that have all had increased income over the last two years, but city workers aren’t “allowed” to have their pay go up as well? For fucks sakes.

 

[Bobby V]

Prop 19 also sucks because you can’t pass that property tax rate to your kids.

Pretty sure you can as long as its used as a primary residence.

California Proposition 19 - What It Is and How It Works | Blog | Corinthian Title

Property Tax Transfers, Exemptions, and Revenue for Wildfire Agencies and Counties Amendment (2020) Permits homeowners who are over 55, severely disabled, or whose homes were destroyed by...

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