FUGGY DUCK GOES TO MEAD....

[2FORCEFULL]

here's what ive found,...the 210 is way out of balance, and with the big block weight.. very transom heavy...the next thing is the re entry on the bow... it's just not a wave buster like schiada... so if the boat gets too far off keel.. it'll kite, next thing that happens is when it lands... it's always transom first and it buries deep putting the keel even farther off and with the 21 degree bottom it like to pick a side so it starts the side to side deal..I also found that it's easier to settle down the open bow boats, and it's my belief that they are more balanced...I don't know a lot about the ski race boats, and often wondered if the have ballast weight in the front... I do know this.....70 mph was the scary number for me on multiple halletts ... but tamed way down with a center transom plate....maybe the real fix would be a notched transom.... that's a question for thane....

All the ski race boats I have seen have the drive extension box which helps with the balance issue you are describing, and lots of plate. I have added 12” Dana’s and will probably change the plates to the next size up. The biggest help I have seen is using the 2” shorter drive. Didn’t see a significant speed increase but it did help the handling. Still haven’t found the right prop.[/QUOTE]
are you sure you are not getting too much bow lift?? seems like transom lift you wouldn't be able to put any plate or it would start bow steering,...same with the shorter drive, shorter drive is gonna give less bow lift....right???

 

[2FORCEFULL]

this boat the bow used to hop around and you couldn't trim it up hardly at all... with the center plate it rode smooth and level...

 

[UltraLucky]

The initial setup with the current engine had the prop shaft at 7” below the keel. With a Bravo 1 26 you could trim the drive and the speed would keep increasing But would start chine walk pretty good in the mid to high 60’s. I decided to go back to my old prop before the motor upgrade since I knew the boat liked that one, 23 mirage. First pass out boat was more stable but still wanted to kite as you described. Boat still wanted tons of trim but controllable speed increased by about 10mph before the rev limiter kicked in. Went to a 25 Mirage mid range was great but boat would not free up could not get the rpms I wanted. Changed to - 2lower and it helped settle the boat down but don’t think the 3 blade is right for this setup now with the shorter lower. I can blow out the 25p three blade pretty easily now.
All my prop slip #’s with the 3 blade Mirage props were below 5%.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

The initial setup with the current engine had the prop shaft at 7” below the keel. With a Bravo 1 26 you could trim the drive and the speed would keep increasing But would start chine walk pretty good in the mid to high 60’s. I decided to go back to my old prop before the motor upgrade since I knew the boat liked that one, 23 mirage. First pass out boat was more stable but still wanted to kite as you described. Boat still wanted tons of trim but controllable speed increased by about 10mph before the rev limiter kicked in. Went to a 25 Mirage mid range was great but boat would not free up could not get the rpms I wanted. Changed to - 2lower and it helped settle the boat down but don’t think the 3 blade is right for this setup now with the shorter lower. I can blow out the 25p three blade pretty easily now.
All my prop slip #’s with the 3 blade Mirage props were below 5%.

well, I got a prop for you to try, the hydro 26p....they don't have defuser rings...myself..., I think the goal is to keep the boat running more on the keel... that way the re entry on the bow has a chance to work....too much bow lift will cause the boat to be more unstable as it hits the rollers too far back and launches the boat....I've owned about a dozen 210 halletts and they all were flighty above 60 mph...and as I said, they just seem to be too transom heavy.....a direction I was thinking was to light'n up the motor with aluminum heads.....maybe re locate the battery's more forward,... maybe under the seat or something..getting to the right prop is a major goal... having to go longer on tabs......?????....somethings not right with the boat,..bottom? weight load??? "X"???everybody pretty much disagrees with my idea of whats wrong with the 210.... gonna be interesting to see what Thane does with the hull....

 

[2FORCEFULL]

and another thing....lol... when I was running fuggly, it started to run better with the tabs buried at 50-60 mph...I never ran it WOT for multible reasons... mostly because it was my first time out ,and wanted to get some cruise time in different water conditions... but I did notice.. any rollers at all and it started hopping....and also noted that it was very sensitive to prop trim...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

all this response is making me think that a smaller diameter prop might be a place to start..15 1/4" props might just be too big and getting too much bite....,from what I know had have been told...

 

[hallett21]

Have you tried a trophy before?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Have you tried a trophy before?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nope, thought they were out board props...

 

[buck35]

You might give a call to Bblades . The guy is a wealth of knowledge on propping boats . Im not sure if he is on here but is over on oso.

 

[troostr]

Steve, threads like this are why I'm glad you're back! (and I dig seeing seeing all the toys you change through) Thanks!

 

[hallett21]

nope, thought they were out board props...

Typically but RD has run one on his schiada. It’s a bow lifting prop with no diffuser. Hub is smaller than a B1 so you get some exhaust over the blades to break them free in the hole shot.

But I think you have through hull so maybe doesn’t matter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Runs2rch]

Growing up Bud was one of our family friends. He said he designed the 210 to be run with tab, just like he designed the 27 to be a twin engine small block boat. Danny Churchill bought a 27 without power and rigged the first single.

My 210 has a 496HO. Open bow. I run with a little tab always. Boat does everything fine without any hopping. Try a 25p Rev 4. Smaller diameter. Will give you more overall lift.

 

[Runs2rch]

That was one of the reasons for the mirage props, diameter is 14 5/8" below is a running with 25 mirage at about 72 with some tab. still have another 600 rpm

Tab and trim up. People think it is counter intuitive, but in a 210 or 240 that is how they like to run. Went out with Chris Barron one day. He said just do what I say.

 

[UltraLucky]

Growing up Bud was one of our family friends. He said he designed the 210 to be run with tab, just like he designed the 27 to be a twin engine small block boat. Danny Churchill bought a 27 without power and rigged the first single.

My 210 has a 496HO. Open bow. I run with a little tab always. Boat does everything fine without any hopping. Try a 25p Rev 4. Smaller diameter. Will give you more overall lift.

I have been looking for a 25 rev 4 to try I have been told that these boats respond well to that style prop.

 

[Runs2rch]

I have been looking for a 25 rev 4 to try I have been told that these boats respond well to that style prop.

They do. I run a 23. Boat does not have any characteristics that 2FF talks about.

 

[stevesdcb]

So...with 500hp, stock Bravo length, & 12 inch Bennett tabs......a 25 rev 4 is the recipe?

How much of a difference does the -2 & Dana 1000 make?

 

[2FORCEFULL]

So...with 500hp, stock Bravo length, & 12 inch Bennett tabs......a 25 rev 4 is the recipe?

How much of a difference does the -2 & Dana 1000 make?

is your boat open bow???

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I have been looking for a 25 rev 4 to try I have been told that these boats respond well to that style prop.

well, if you think a rev 4 will work,then I'm betting the hydro 26pwill work better and get the speed you want...rev 4's are work props,... kinda like alterrians, and the eat up hp... that's why you have to go down in size... I think I'm getting a base formula down...closed bow...defuser ring,... open bow no defuser ring... also solas makes a nice prop that'll work with no ring

 

[2FORCEFULL]

some one spent some coin setting my boat up,and one thing on the want to do list is hydraulic helm....the tabs are dual ram 12"W x 16'L .... dual ram external steering,... I changed out the windshield to solid black, and no defusers... should be good for a .0675 mph gain...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

lots going on on the back of this hallett...and the bottom is just as busy

 

[76 Southwind]

I too am a 2FF thread junky.. You cannot leave anything alone and that's fine with me.. Get after it Sir.. Oh and I'm not a Laker fan boat color theme guy, but I would rock this 210 over a lot of the other crazy designs and colors I have seen. It' far from fugly.. and it's clean !!!!!

 

[BONER]

That boat doesn't look that bad to me Steve.. LOL I don't know why you keep calling it Fuggy / Fugly etc.

RD

I'd rock it. All day long.

 

[Cole Trickle]

Boat looks good with the new windshield.

Strip/polich and clear ano the steps and loose all the bs california stickers and maybe some white/black outline NV numbers

 

[Classic Daycruiser]

Can you fix any of your issues with fuel loading?

My 21 Eliminator has a 50 gallon belly tank. Big difference between running 10 gallons of fuel, and 50, in the tank.

 

[Ol Man]

Thanks for all of the education and your thinking out loud.

 

[CLdrinker]

That boat is ugly as *#%k.

Give you 15k for it.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Can you fix any of your issues with fuel loading?

My 21 Eliminator has a 50 gallon belly tank. Big difference between running 10 gallons of fuel, and 50, in the tank.

I ran it with full fuel...I think they hold about 90 or more gals.still needed more transom lift

 

[2FORCEFULL]

That boat is ugly as *#%k.

Give you 15k for it.

my wife thinks it's beautiful,

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Thanks for all of the education and your thinking out loud.

I also can type in caps....lol

 

[stevesdcb]

is your boat open bow???

Closed bow

 

[Croz]

Closed bow

I'm looking forward to seeing yours when it's done. About tabs, I plan on getting Dana hp1000's after this season, trickle said they make a hell of a difference, after being on the lake after The desert storm shoot out, they're "needed" ha

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Closed bow

I'd be following what closed bow boat owners have done.... I've owned quite a few of these halletts open and closed..and had to prop them different...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

so today.... I'm gonna try the mach 26p 4 blade prop...my desk top study has me thinking that it will give just the right amount of transom lift, I'm also thinking that it will be a drive and fuel saver as it is only 14.5 diameter ...the defuser ring should help to keep it locked in on launch and turns... I personal think that the graph inter section of power and over power for the boat in stock form is 70 mph.. and i'm talking gps 70mph....and that might truly be closer to 60mph..(with out any tabs).which leads me to believe that these boats in stock form would perform better with a 300 hp small block, than a 300hp big block...

who ever rigged my hallett could see a problem waiting to happen, 500hp merc motor.... lets see, we better add 16'' wheel barrel handle tabs... oh,... and better add duel external rams to the steering...and we better put a small pitch prop so the boat will only go 70 mph...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I'm looking forward to seeing yours when it's done. About tabs, I plan on getting Dana hp1000's after this season, trickle said they make a hell of a difference, after being on the lake after The desert storm shoot out, they're "needed" ha

trickels boat has 2000lbs of stuff under the bow.....lol

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Closed bow

have you post'any pics of said boat?? also, is it running now..

 

[4Waters]

my wife thinks it's beautiful,

Yeah well she married you, so what does she know. LOL J/K I also enjoy your threads and am glad your back.

 

[Croz]

trickels boat has 2000lbs of stuff under the bow.....lol

Of what?? That’s a “ton” of weight

 

[N of the rvr]

210’s have been around for along time and are a solid platform for a 21 performance boat. These boats don’t have any bad handling characteristics, in my opinion. Why make a mystery out of set up. Maybe it would be better just to ask someone with experience with this hull. Tabs, x dimension, prop selection,C.G....it’s all been done before. Why not just ask someone that knows what they are doing?
It seams to me, even though it’s mildly amusing, this thread is nothing more than an a pre ad for an upcoming sale. Gary at GT performance has set up more of these than anyone, and he is always willing to answer questions. Just my.02

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Of what?? That’s a “ton” of weight

we were at pirates, and chuck pulled up, had the family, some one for every seat.... I holler "hey chuck" and he gives me the the one finger wait a second, and starts pulling stuff out from under the bow and stacking it on the deck, a few minutes later, he still unloading, chairs for everyone umbrellas , ice chests,bench press weight set ,aquarium with coy fish, big screen TV with base speakers,..cast iron slow bean cooker and tortilia press... waffle maker and a outboard trolling motor made into a margarita blender..I not sure but I think the leather recliner was a massager

 

[2FORCEFULL]

210’s have been around for along time and are a solid platform for a 21 performance boat. These boats don’t have any bad handling characteristics, in my opinion. Why make a mystery out of set up. Maybe it would be better just to ask someone with experience with this hull. Tabs, x dimension, prop selection,C.G....it’s all been done before. Why not just ask someone that knows what they are doing?
It seams to me, even though it’s mildly amusing, this thread is nothing more than an a pre ad for an upcoming sale. Gary at GT performance has set up more of these than anyone, and he is always willing to answer questions. Just my.02

then heres your answers.... boats not for sale, and when I get rid of it, it will be passed down to my youngest Son, the next part of your post I will ask, why all the hardware on the back of the boat, is it just like earrings on a prostitute , to attract attention...pretty sure I have had more 210's than anyone on this board, and I personal know how to make them work...


my opinion...as old school as it sounds...the more hp you put into a boat,,the more you need to rig for said hp...all boats can be under powered and the same boat can be over powered.. IMHO, the 210 would be better powered with a scorpion small block ,than a 500hp big block,... not saying the 500hp merc won't work, but you just have to rig it correct to the hp and weight...


as far as the 210 goes...you can make a nice smooth riding cruiser out of them... but they are a heavy deep V boat that needs lots of horse power to go fast, and there are a lot of 21'rs out there that will go way faster with less power...I Always pick the 210 for boating at mead..the water at mead gets big fast, and I know I can get home..the hull is a quality strong build...

 

[N of the rvr]

then heres your answers.... boats not for sale, and when I get rid of it, it will be passed down to my youngest Son, the next part of your post I will ask, why all the hardware on the back of the boat, is it just like earrings on a prostitute , to attract attention...pretty sure I have had more 210's than anyone on this board, and I personal know how to make them work...


my opinion...as old school as it sounds...the more hp you put into a boat,,the more you need to rig for said hp...all boats can be under powered and the same boat can be over powered.. IMHO, the 210 would be better powered with a scorpion small block ,than a 500hp big block,... not saying the 500hp merc won't work, but you just have to rig it correct to the hp and weight...


as far as the 210 goes...you can make a nice smooth riding cruiser out of them... but they are a heavy deep V boat that needs lots of horse power to go fast, and there are a lot of 21'rs out there that will go way faster with less power...I Always pick the 210 for boating at mead..the water at mead gets big fast, and I know I can get home..the hull is a quality strong build...

Probably not more seat time or set up than anyone on the board or even in this post. But you have your opinions and at least your entertaining. Thanks for all the interesting post over the years. Your one of the guys that makes this place what it is.

 

[Cole Trickle]

we were at pirates, and chuck pulled up, had the family, some one for every seat.... I holler "hey chuck" and he gives me the the one finger wait a second, and starts pulling stuff out from under the bow and stacking it on the deck, a few minutes later, he still unloading, chairs for everyone umbrellas , ice chests,bench press weight set ,aquarium with coy fish, big screen TV with base speakers,..cast iron slow bean cooker and tortilia press... waffle maker and a outboard trolling motor made into a margarita blender..I not sure but I think the leather recliner was a massager

That’s a true story...lol

It’s a loosing battle I don’t even fight anymore...haha

Boat still runs 80+ full tank and loaded up[emoji12][emoji41]

 

[stevesdcb]

have you post'any pics of said boat?? also, is it running now..

Haven't posted boat picks, motor is still sitting on the stand

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Probably not more seat time or set up than anyone on the board or even in this post. But you have your opinions and at least your entertaining. Thanks for all the interesting post over the years. Your one of the guys that makes this place what it is.

I actually have a lot of seat time as I use to try to go to the lake every day...and I wanna say the 210 will go along way in the hi performance line...as in... you can put a ton of power in them..and as you have said..they need to be rigged by someone that knows the boat and what to do..as for my boat, I think it was just sold and never fine tuned ... and they pre owners just kept it that way.... I only started this thread to make more aware of all that their 210 could really be.... the old statement, and yes I hear it every time I go to mead...hallett would never have put this prop on my boat if it wasn't the right and the best one for it...so I'm not changing it.....ahhhh ok..when I picked up this boat, I looked at the prop.. a hydro IV 24p??? I thought to my self... that can't be right.... but... I did leave it on there, and went and tried it..so now I know...
as for what I think will work... I'm thinking the mach 26 is gonna be close... I'm headed to mead so with in hours from now.... I will know....LOL, or I will think I know.... nothing more dangerous than a man that thinks he knows.....

 

[2FORCEFULL]

That’s a true story...lol

It’s a loosing battle I don’t even fight anymore...haha

Boat still runs 80+ full tank and loaded up[emoji12][emoji41]

and looks good doing it.... so how fast do I have to make my boat to go around you....lol.. just kidding, I never go past 55mph

 

[2FORCEFULL]

we were at pirates, and chuck pulled up, had the family, some one for every seat.... I holler "hey chuck" and he gives me the the one finger wait a second, and starts pulling stuff out from under the bow and stacking it on the deck, a few minutes later, he still unloading, chairs for everyone umbrellas , ice chests,bench press weight set ,aquarium with coy fish, big screen TV with base speakers,..cast iron slow bean cooker and tortilia press... waffle maker and a outboard trolling motor made into a margarita blender..I not sure but I think the leather recliner was a massager

LOL... this was just a gross exzaduation ... put damn... you can put a shit load of stuff under the bow of the 210's

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Haven't posted boat picks, motor is still sitting on the stand

so lets see what you are starting with...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Probably not more seat time or set up than anyone on the board or even in this post. But you have your opinions and at least your entertaining. Thanks for all the interesting post over the years. Your one of the guys that makes this place what it is.

so this has to be a some what interesting thread to draw a reply from you? and thanks for any info you have..

 

[stevesdcb]

Probably not more seat time or set up than anyone on the board or even in this post. But you have your opinions and at least your entertaining. Thanks for all the interesting post over the years. Your one of the guys that makes this place what it is.

Frank, I would love to hear your opinion regarding the propping of these 210s in relation to lift, standard Bravo vs -2, & tabs. I have the motor at 500 hp & the steering assist, I'm unsure if a -2 is the way to go, pros vs cons. Also, with the HP I have, how big on tabs. My goal is a 75 to 80mph boat that is safe, stable, & predictable. IMO, you owned & built one of the nicest high performance 210s I've seen on RDP.

 

[N of the rvr]

so this has to be a some what interesting thread to draw a reply from you? and thanks for any info you have..

Your stuff is always interesting, a 2FF post is always fun to check out. Glad you are back! Can’t wait too see where you go with this project.