Fagnum PI

[530RL]

D, E and F models.

We are working on a D model and it has a round nose and a 420 shaft horse power motor. An E model has a pointed nose and the option of a C20B engine at 420 shaft horsepower or a C20R which is 450 shaft horsepower. The R makes more power when you are high in altitude or hot. Despite thoughts to the contrary, R model engines do not make much more power at sea level and are quite a bit more expensive to maintain.

An F model has major changes. Although it has an identical fuselage, it has longer main rotor blades, a larger tail rotor, stronger tail boom, tail boom extension and a C30 engine which makes 650 shaft horsepower. This model rarely is limited by turbine power but is limited by maximum amount of torque through the rotor system.

This is a picture of the F model tail boom and extension.



Because the engine is significantly bigger, it is jammed into the same engine compartment and has a significantly larger exhaust stack. It is a bitch to work on and you need an A&P with small hands and thin fingers to get at a lot of stuff.



Due to the larger engine size and length, the rear clamshells are modified with lower fairings to cover the bottom of the engine and allow it to fit.

 

[530RL]

Back to the D model. Turbines suck and squeeze a large amount of air to drive the N2 power section. It needs a lot of air but does not like FOD or foreign objects. Small rocks or gravel or even chunks of grass can significantly lower the life of the compressor and the turbine. This is a picture of the compressor intake. It does not like foreign objects. As previously stated, this bad boy spins at 53,000 rpm and can suck up a lot of bad stuff with out good protection. At the same time, the protection needs to be non-restrictive so as to not rob power.

The seven struts on the front are designed to have hot bleed air flow through them. The hot air prevents icing when temperatures are below freezing and there is visible moisture. Ice building up is bad. If it breaks off, it damages the compressor and when it melts it tends to blow out the flame in the hot section of the turbine and the burner can resulting in the donkey giving up the ghost. If the donkey does flame out, you now must enter autorotation or use your one and only fatal aircraft incident.



The latest and greatest filter system uses a large filter on the top of the air plenum and a large filter on the front of the plenum.

 

[Tank]

Nice Huey in that pic!

Where are you guys located?

 

[530RL]

Both rotary and fixed wing shops are in Mesa.

 

[spotondl]

Great thread... Here are a couple of older vids of some big HP turbines working with some good detail on the rotor assembly & spinning disc under variable loading conditions... Station fire a couple of years ago.

[video=youtube;AwkBVX1-uD0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwkBVX1-uD0[/video]

[video=youtube;5h7hurXMpfs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h7hurXMpfs[/video]

 

[530RL]

The panel is almost complete with final touching up. This picture shows TOT temp, Torque, N1 rpm as a percentage and engine oil pressure. These gauges are digital with a sender. Historically they were supplied with wet lines that sometimes leaked.

 

[530RL]

Here is a the engine and exhaust installed on a D model versus and F model. Same airframe, but C20 engine versus C30.




F Model

 

[cave]

Pretty cool Rodney King. :thumbup:
My pops worked for Hughes Tool and die back in Culver City, later Hughes Helicopters. I have all his annual pins and his 20 year ring. I got ride in the older OH-6 Cayuse then later in one of the 500 series. Little Friends my pops called them. The rides were awesome. I'll never forget the smells :thumbup:

Thanks for the pics RK :thumbup: Sparking some memories.

 

[El Rojo]

curious as to what it costs to paint a helicopter..........

 

[Racey]

The panel is almost complete with final touching up. This picture shows TOT temp, Torque, N1 rpm as a percentage and engine oil pressure. These gauges are digital with a sender. Historically they were supplied with wet lines that sometimes leaked.

View attachment 252404

What method does the gauge use to determine torque?

 

[530RL]

What method does the gauge use to determine torque?

It uses a torquemeter gear off the engine gear box. The rotor system is designed for a maximum amount of torque. The rotor system maximum torque is always below the maximum power capacity of the engine such that they are referred to as "de-rated". The higher the difference between the rotor system design and the engine design, the more "reserve" power you have.

Engines produce power based upon a maximum turbine outlet temperature. So, the limit is reached when either the engine has "temped" out or the rotor system has torqued out. The small engine C20, in hot climates or high altitude will temp out before the rotor system is being torqued out. In the larger engine, C30, it is really tough to temp it out as it can produce 650 shaft horsepower and even in hot and high altitudes where its capacity to generate power is reduced, the rotor system limits are dramatically below that value. However, it burns more fuel and weighs more so you pay a little penalty in useful load unless you are the military and you decide the all up weight is higher for your ship. For example, the 500D and E have a maximum weight of 3000 pounds and an F model has a maximum weight of 3200 pounds. In the military version or MELB, they are currently working on a 4500 pound all up weight with a different rotor head and tail rotor.

 

[530RL]

Two weeks after receiving from paint shop, bird is just about ready for ground runs. But prior to ground runs, it must go to HAI in Vegas for next week. So the boat shipping wrappers come tomorrow and on the trailer for Vegas on Friday.

Finished nose with appropriate signatures.

 

[530RL]

The panel is completed with just a few minor covers to go on. D panels are straight panels and not a lot of real estate. Due to current technology, you can cram a lot of stuff on them. This panel has a touchscreen GPS, transposer combo, a spare radio, audio panel controller, FM radio if you want to do work for the government and most neatly a device that you can plug the sim card in from your phone and use it as a cell phone in the air, or you can use it as a satellite phone, or you can set it up such that if one of your pilots over-temps or over-torques your aircraft, it sends you a text......



A few other pictures,

 

[Racey]

It uses a torquemeter gear off the engine gear box. The rotor system is designed for a maximum amount of torque. The rotor system maximum torque is always below the maximum power capacity of the engine such that they are referred to as "de-rated". The higher the difference between the rotor system design and the engine design, the more "reserve" power you have.

So is it a strain gauge based "transducer" similar to a dyno, where you are measuring the torque applied between the frame and the gearbox?

Cool stuff :thumbup:

 

[530RL]

I am not a physics professor, nor as technical as you and some others on the board but I think the premise is the same, but the technique varies depending upon the engine type and design. So yes?

In the Allison/Rollys Royce model 250 the torquemeter assembly connects the power unit and the reduction gear assembly, transmitting the drive from the power unit to the reduction gear assembly, The torquemeter consists of two concentric shaft assemblies, a torquemeter housing assembly, a torquemeter pickup assembly, phase detector and indicator or a unitized indicator. The torquemeter operates on the principle of measuring the torsional deflection (twist) that occurs in any power-transmitting shaft. The concentric shaft assembly consists of an outer or reference shaft, and an inner or torque shaft. The reference shaft is rigidly connected to the inner shaft at the power unit end only and transfers the reference position to the output end for measuring purposes. The inner shaft carries the load and produces the measurable shaft twist. On engines having the power section modified for use of the midbearing torquemeter, the torquemeter unit assembly has the torquemeter shaft supported at its middle by a roller bearing caged within the torquemeter housing. This mid-bearing prevents shaft whip and the accompanying vibration. Each shaft has a flange containing rectangular exciter teeth. Two magnetic pickups mounted over the flange teeth detect the relative displacement of the two flanges in the form of electrical impulses which are sent to a phase detector. The phase detector converts the impulse signal to current which is fed to a synchro system to transmit the signal to the indicator. The indicator reads inch-pounds of torque but is then converted to an appropriate display depending upon aircraft type.

From a practical matter, torque is important for two reasons. First, because the main rotor rotating assembly is so heavy, the amount of torque put on the rotating mass is a design limit. Secondly, torque in the main rotor system must be counteracted with a tail rotor. Excess torque, hot and heavy situations, or high altitudes reduce tail rotor effectiveness in a way that can result in a spinning motion that can not be overcome absent a reduction in torque, or rotor RPM which can be a problem at times.

From a pilot standpoint, the interesting training situation is that when a US designed helicopter with a main rotor system that rotates counter clockwise requires diffent actions in emergency situations than french or russian helicopters that have a rotor system that rotates in a clockwise manner.

 

[rivermobster]

Fucking WAY cool thread! :thumbsup:thumbsup

Going to a hawaii tour operator. People who grew up in the 80's pay more money to ride in it with doors off......as Jay Z said.....all about the benjamins baby....

We did exactly this in Kauai. Hanging out the side of the chopper watching stuff go buy was a total rush to me! Took me awhile to talk the wife into it, but eventually she came around. Man we had a blast.

 

[Racey]

I am not a physics professor, nor as technical as you and some others on the board but I think the premise is the same, but the technique varies depending upon the engine type and design. So yes?

In the Allison/Rollys Royce model 250 the torquemeter assembly connects the power unit and the reduction gear assembly, transmitting the drive from the power unit to the reduction gear assembly, The torquemeter consists of two concentric shaft assemblies, a torquemeter housing assembly, a torquemeter pickup assembly, phase detector and indicator or a unitized indicator. The torquemeter operates on the principle of measuring the torsional deflection (twist) that occurs in any power-transmitting shaft. The concentric shaft assembly consists of an outer or reference shaft, and an inner or torque shaft. The reference shaft is rigidly connected to the inner shaft at the power unit end only and transfers the reference position to the output end for measuring purposes. The inner shaft carries the load and produces the measurable shaft twist. On engines having the power section modified for use of the midbearing torquemeter, the torquemeter unit assembly has the torquemeter shaft supported at its middle by a roller bearing caged within the torquemeter housing. This mid-bearing prevents shaft whip and the accompanying vibration. Each shaft has a flange containing rectangular exciter teeth. Two magnetic pickups mounted over the flange teeth detect the relative displacement of the two flanges in the form of electrical impulses which are sent to a phase detector. The phase detector converts the impulse signal to current which is fed to a synchro system to transmit the signal to the indicator. The indicator reads inch-pounds of torque but is then converted to an appropriate display depending upon aircraft type.

From a practical matter, torque is important for two reasons. First, because the main rotor rotating assembly is so heavy, the amount of torque put on the rotating mass is a design limit. Secondly, torque in the main rotor system must be counteracted with a tail rotor. Excess torque, hot and heavy situations, or high altitudes reduce tail rotor effectiveness in a way that can result in a spinning motion that can not be overcome absent a reduction in torque, or rotor RPM which can be a problem at times.

From a pilot standpoint, the interesting training situation is that when a US designed helicopter with a main rotor system that rotates counter clockwise requires diffent actions in emergency situations than french or russian helicopters that have a rotor system that rotates in a clockwise manner.

That was gonna be my second guess, a method of measuring torsional twist on the drive shaft, makes perfect sense :thumbup:, this method would also have the added benefit of being free from false readings due to inertial changes of the aircraft as it flies normally, changes direction, altitude, pitch and roll etc. Cool stuff

 

[530RL]

That was gonna be my second guess, a method of measuring torsional twist on the drive shaft, makes perfect sense :thumbup:, this method would also have the added benefit of being free from false readings due to inertial changes of the aircraft as it flies normally, changes direction, altitude, pitch and roll etc. Cool stuff

So the answer to the original question is then......no.......

 

[Flyinbowtie]

Yeah we took the ride of the beach near The military hotel. My wife's first helo ride.
I was working a lot with the dope cops at that time, 1987, and my wife told the pilot I was a cop and flew eradication.
:grumble::rolleyes So after the normal tour he took us flying around for about another 25 minutes all over the place because he wanted me to point out gardens and teach him to spot it.
The extra time was fun, Cindy was having a blast but it was too much like working for me. And he wouldn't stay at altitude (too low).
There was a single female in the back with Cin and she had a blast... got an education too.
Long time ago..

Sorry TBI...

 

[River Lynchmob]

Way cool thread! :thumbsup

So what does something like that run as it sits completely refurbished?

 

[Racey]

Way cool thread! :thumbsup

So what does something like that run as it sits completely refurbished?

You should be asking about single seaters, there is no way in hell anyone is getting into a chopper with you behind the controls, preck. :skull

 

[Flyinbowtie]

Lynch I love them too...if I had it to do over again I'd be flying them for a living, somehow or another.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Here's a 500E with a fresh engine and paint, but crappy radios.

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...-500E/1985-MCDONNELL-DOUGLAS-500E/1268733.htm

Just shy of a cool million. I'd at least have them put a new Garmin radio in for that price.

 

[530RL]

Way cool thread! :thumbsup

So what does something like that run as it sits completely refurbished?

As that one sits about 900k with a B engine. About 40 more with an R engine. According to the government, you can not use the word refurbished......it's repaired.

 

[kiwi77]

Rodney....

Do you know Tim Cole? He's a life long 500 guy that maintains my E model. Most of you 500 guys all know each other.
What operator is the ship going to in Hawaii if you can say. Alex Air by chance?

Jon

 

[2CHILL]

Great thread. How much would it cost annually to own a helicopter like that?

 

[kiwi77]

My insurance alone is $54,000.00 per year whether I fly it or not.

 

[530RL]

Rodney....

Do you know Tim Cole? He's a life long 500 guy that maintains my E model. Most of you 500 guys all know each other.
What operator is the ship going to in Hawaii if you can say. Alex Air by chance?

Jon

I do not know Tim Cole. It is going to Paradise for their site at the old turtle bay hilton. Will fly about 1600 hours per year.

 

[530RL]

Great thread. How much would it cost annually to own a helicopter like that?

On an E model,

Insurance depends upon if you buy hull or not. Hull insurance is to pay to fix the helicopter if you crash or bang it in to something. Depending upon pilot time, experience, annual hours flown and age of pilot, hull insurance is anywhere between 4 and 12% of the value per year. Liability depends on total limit as well as a seat limit but my liability insurance was about 2500 per year. I did not carry hull insurance as self insuring seemed like a better plan to me.

Fuel burn rate depending upon B engine or R engine is 26 to 29 gallons per hour.

Some component times are life limited by hours or years. The factory, assuming 400 hours per year, believes it is approximately 250 per hour for life limited components. I would like to know where they get their dope.....

Then you have annual inspections, 24 month inspections, and lots of other inspections.

Bottom line is that I assumed fuel at 4 bucks a gallon, 150 hours per year and it wound up costing about 500 per hour.

F models burn 31 to 36 gallons an hour and most other costs are about the same.

 

[530RL]

The repaired ship was loaded and off to HAI in Vegas on Friday. We also took a refurbished hull that can be built into an E model.



Got to Vegas and began the Convention Crawl. First go to the marshaling yard, then to the scales, then to the convention center, then wait for the appropriate union hall dude with the appropriate forklift, then wait some more then finally off the trailer to be pushed into the booth. Then leave convention center back to the marshaling yard back to the scales. Wash, rinse, repeat to get the dam thing out of the convention center.



Into the booth for day one.



On Day one, Roger Mosley and Larry Manetti came to do a promotional piece including a book signing, t-shirt signing and general autograph/picture stuff. They were both very nice and super friendly. Mosley who is in his 70's was really nice and really accommodating. What is amazingly funny is that the younger people did not get it. "Why the funky paint job?" Are we that old?





Back to Phoenix tomorrow for ground runs, finishing up and into a cargo plane to Hawaii.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

You should just tell the teamsters to go get fucked and fly that thing out of there... :thumbup:

 

[Flyinbowtie]

Very very cool, thanks for bringing it to us. All threads with helicopters rock.

 

[530RL]

It now has over 1000 hours on it since completion. Here is a recent video which is partly the bird but partly Hawaii.

http://vimeo.com/70561971

 

[GhettoBird]

Very nice. That's the show that got me into flying helicopters. That and 240 Robert.