F-35B VTOL

[Angler]

Awesome plane!

x.com

x.com

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

Its a nice plane and I appreciate the technology, but having the VTOL fan and associated hardware limits fuel capacity and weapons payloads making it a limited use option.

I'd almost think an attack helicopter would be more survivable than the jet engine pointed down that any heat seeker would eat up.

How many did we buy and are we done with the Harrier?

 

[RitcheyRch]

Its a nice plane and I appreciate the technology, but having the VTOL fan and associated hardware limits fuel capacity and weapons payloads making it a limited use option.

I'd almost think an attack helicopter would be more survivable than the jet engine pointed down that any heat seeker would eat up.

How many did we buy and are we done with the Harrier?

Agree and that's the airplane I worked on. I helped design the folding wing portion.

 

[rrrr]

Waste of money.

 

[Angler]

Waste of money.

Still bitchin tho.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Engineering, design and overall tech is amazing on them. I'm not a military person or fighter pilot, so I don't know if they fill some certain roll with their abilities. They may be a waste of money, but still a better investment to give our soldiers, than billions to other countries.

@RitcheyRch , crap, I just thought you were into fast cars and stuff. Didn't know you were one of them smart guys That's cool to be a part of projects like that. Grandpa worked on the landing gear mechanism for the SR-71 for a company that subbed machine work. Later, while working for Rocketdyne, worked on the 2.5" rockets that sprayed flachettes in Vietnam. Weird stuff, but cool.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Its a nice plane and I appreciate the technology, but having the VTOL fan and associated hardware limits fuel capacity and weapons payloads making it a limited use option.

I'd almost think an attack helicopter would be more survivable than the jet engine pointed down that any heat seeker would eat up.

How many did we buy and are we done with the Harrier?

One day we had a Harrier come though at the airport, actually a flight of them. The pilots were chitchatting with everyone and one guy asked them if they could do a vertical T/O when they departed. The pilots said he could but then he'd have to land at the end of the ramp, it ate up that much fuel. LOL.

I think the vertical T/O function is mostly used for recovery, the airframes use a running T/O on the amphibious assault ships. They aren't hovering in a combat situation. Essentially these airframes allow the MEF to travel with their own fast moving close air support.

 

[spectra3279]

The harrier could only had 3 minutes of hover/ vtakeoff/landing. May have been 1 minute can't remember. They have a 100g water tank that cools the ductwork or the exhaust heat would burn holes in it.

 

[rrrr]

One day we had a Harrier come though at the airport, actually a flight of them. The pilots were chitchatting with everyone and one guy asked them if they could do a vertical T/O when they departed. The pilots said he could but then he'd have to land at the end of the ramp, it ate up that much fuel. LOL.

I think the vertical T/O function is mostly used for recovery, the airframes use a running T/O on the amphibious assault ships. They aren't hovering in a combat situation. Essentially these airframes allow the MEF to travel with their own fast moving close air support.

The Navy has backlogs in construction at Newport, Ingalls, and Austal along with budgetary constraints that make changes to the assault fleet to accommodate the F-35B impossible. New construction cannot happen for more than five years, if then. Right now the shipbuilders need thousands of employees that can't be found. Austal recently built an educational facility that has over 600 trainees enrolled. Construction of fleet nuclear submarines and carriers are years behind due to the lack of qualified personnel.

The cost of modifications to the amphibious fleet in order for the flight decks to handle the downblast of the fan, adding takeoff ramps, fuel carrying capacity, carrying support staff and parts, the poor operational readiness factor of the F-35B, and other factors are huge. Like hundreds of billions huge.

The same support could be accomplished with assets in the fleet today. In the event of war or other deployment, there will be carriers within a couple hundred miles of the action. Onboard conventional F-35s and airborne tanker aircraft could perform the same function.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

The Navy has backlogs in construction at Newport, Ingalls, and Austal along with budgetary constraints that make changes to the assault fleet to accommodate the F-35B impossible. New construction cannot happen for more than five years, if then. Right now the shipbuilders need thousands of employees that can't be found. Austal recently built an educational facility that has over 600 trainees enrolled. Construction of fleet nuclear submarines and carriers are years behind due to the lack of qualified personnel.

The cost of modifications to the amphibious fleet in order for the flight decks to handle the downblast of the fan, adding takeoff ramps, fuel carrying capacity, carrying support staff and parts, the poor operational readiness factor of the F-35B, and other factors are huge. Like hundreds of billions huge.

The same support could be accomplished with assets in the fleet today. In the event of war or other deployment, there will be carriers within a couple hundred miles of the action. Onboard conventional F-35s and airborne tanker aircraft could perform the same function.

That's all well and good, but the Navy and its contractors not having enough money or manpower to build ships and weapon systems really has nothing to do with the B model of the F-35.

 

[TPC]

Can't it take off conventionally and not experience the side effects of VTOL?

 

[RitcheyRch]

Engineering, design and overall tech is amazing on them. I'm not a military person or fighter pilot, so I don't know if they fill some certain roll with their abilities. They may be a waste of money, but still a better investment to give our soldiers, than billions to other countries.

@RitcheyRch , crap, I just thought you were into fast cars and stuff. Didn't know you were one of them smart guys That's cool to be a part of projects like that. Grandpa worked on the landing gear mechanism for the SR-71 for a company that subbed machine work. Later, while working for Rocketdyne, worked on the 2.5" rockets that sprayed flachettes in Vietnam. Weird stuff, but cool.

Very cool. My Mom did the cockpit wiring on the SR71, P3A, U2 and L1011 when she worked at Lockheed. My Dad helped build the JDAM rockets when he worked for HR Textron now Woodward. My Maternal Grandfather worked on many Design projects for Northrop, Lockheed, Boeing and McDonnell Douglas.

I've worked on the C17 aft fuselage cargo door at McDonnell Douglas and many commercial projects at McDonnell Douglas and now Boeing. Also, worked P7A at BAE Systems, X-47A/B at Northrop, F-35 at Northrop and Lockheed, C130 at Lockheed and the Mars Rover that is up there now at JPL.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Very cool. My Mom did the cockpit wiring on the SR71, P3A, U2 and L1011 when she worked at Lockheed. My Dad helped build the JDAM rockets when he worked for HR Textron now Woodward. My Maternal Grandfather worked on many Design projects for Northrop, Lockheed, Boeing and McDonnell Douglas.

I've worked on the C17 aft fuselage cargo door at McDonnell Douglas and many commercial projects at McDonnell Douglas and now Boeing. Also, worked P7A at BAE Systems, X-47A/B at Northrop, F-35 at Northrop and Lockheed, C130 at Lockheed and the Mars Rover that is up there now at JPL.

Wow! That's a lot of cool stuff both you've done, and your family. Through the hot rod world, I met a guy that worked for JPL most his career, his biggest project was working on the moon rover. Another guy I know, gifted fabricator, but no engineer, got a new job in the last downturn...he's been welding titanium at SpaceX. Loves it, everything fits beautifully

 

[TPC]

Russias push into Ukraine is good for business.
Swiss Voters approved this deal at the ballot box:

Swiss leaders sign $6.25 billion contract for F-35 fighter jets

The deal follows the government's rejection of a referendum push that seeks to stall the acquisition.

www.defensenews.com

We'll soon see their F5 Tigers in private hands

 

[rrrr]

That's all well and good, but the Navy and its contractors not having enough money or manpower to build ships and weapon systems really has nothing to do with the B model of the F-35.

Sure it does. If the Navy doesn't have the proper ships or money and manpower to build them, then the B can't be integrated into the fleet in the manner it was designed for. If it can't be integrated into the fleet, the money spent on that big fan was wasted