Entry Level Performance Boat?

[pkrrvr619]

Must be winter around here for a thread like this to go off track.

Relax guys, no one is talking down on your boat if you have an out board or jet. Yes those are considered performance boats too but I imagine a large chunk of people looking to get into performance boating are wanting a ride that is smoother and not such a “drivers boat”.

@lavey I think it’s all relative. 20-30k for an entry level used custom performance boat isn’t setting the bar too high when a used wakeboard rig would be that or much more. But maybe I’m out of touch.

This is was to be a simple mental exercise boys, no need to take this personal.

All opinions are welcome hence the ask.

 

[clarence]

You really wana go down that road?

What road do you think that is??

I'm 37. Have owned my boat since I was 19. I am married with 4 daughters. 3 of which require constant medical attention, 2 of those with feeding pumps. I have a KX500 as well that I don't get to ride much at all anymore (have had it for about 16 years now) due to finances being too tight for that.

Just saying entry-level depends on where you're at in life.

Owning a boat at 19 would have been a dream for me (I was in school until 24).

We struggle but we make it work. So I understand what entry level is to the overwhelming majority of the population and what is listed by many as "entry level" are dreams for 95% of the population.

Only if you assume entry-level is defined by what is affordable to a 19 year-old or those with other responsibilities. (And they do not make up 95% of the population.)

The question was "how does one get into performance boating?"

Retired, thinking about getting into performance boating, I define entry-level more as how forgiving a boat might be than cost.

 

[530RL]

This could be a reasonably priced start.

1993 Donzi Classic 22

Bid for the chance to own a 1993 Donzi Classic 22 at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #97,438.

bringatrailer.com

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Must be winter around here for a thread like this to go off track.

Relax guys, no one is talking down on your boat if you have an out board or jet. Yes those are considered performance boats too but I imagine a large chunk of people looking to get into performance boating are wanting a ride that is smoother and not such a “drivers boat”.

@lavey I think it’s all relative. 20-30k for an entry level used custom performance boat isn’t setting the bar too high when a used wakeboard rig would be that or much more. But maybe I’m out of touch.

This is was to be a simple mental exercise boys, no need to take this personal.

All opinions are welcome hence the ask.

I didn't think any 0qrticular boat is being talked down on, but general types are by their exclusion from entry level discussions, yet they are more entry level than the ones being discussed.

put it this way, someone googles "entry level performance boat" this thread will be one of the top results. Based on that, someone that reads this that really wants to get into it comes away assuming you habe to spend a minimum of $20k to get into something and it has to be a specific type.

What road do you think that is??



Just saying entry-level depends on where you're at in life.

Owning a boat at 19 would have been a dream for me (I was in school until 24).



Only if you assume entry-level is defined by what is affordable to a 19 year-old or those with other responsibilities. (And they do not make up 95% of the population.)

The question was "how does one get into performance boating?"

Retired, thinking about getting into performance boating, I define entry-level more as how forgiving a boat might be than cost.

The road of comparing where one is at in life. Been down that road too many times here.

Unfortunately your example IS 5% or less than the population. And have you looked at the latest polls for debit to income, who's living paycheck to paycheck, etc? Cause those polls show that a $20k luxury expense (a performance boat is 100% not needed so it is in fact a luxury) is not something 95% of the population can afford..

Those with no other responsibilities and have the disposable income are in the extreme minority.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I didn't think any 0qrticular boat is being talked down on, but general types are by their exclusion from entry level discussions, yet they are more entry level than the ones being discussed.

put it this way, someone googles "entry level performance boat" this thread will be one of the top results. Based on that, someone that reads this that really wants to get into it comes away assuming you habe to spend a minimum of $20k to get into something and it has to be a specific type.

The road of comparing where one is at in life. Been down that road too many times here.

Unfortunately your example IS 5% or less than the population. And have you looked at the latest polls for debit to income, who's living paycheck to paycheck, etc? Cause those polls show that a $20k luxury expense (a performance boat is 100% not needed so it is in fact a luxury) is not something 95% of the population can afford..

Those with no other responsibilities and have the disposable income are in the extreme minority.

You are in the upper 1% of wealth in the world, so I would agree, Don’t go down that road. Everyone is dealt a different and sometimes bad hand. It just is what it is. Everyone has different standards and those standards evolve.

I get your basic premise here, but he is not comparing his life and saying people below him and because he did it with his hand that everyone else should too. What you want or have or view as an entry point just may not work for him.

The fact that people here even possess a boat or off road toys, puts them in in a position above most living “paycheck to paycheck” most of those people have nicer stuff than I do anyway. .

 

[clarence]

The road of comparing where one is at in life. Been down that road too many times here.

Can't compare across only one dimension though.

You wouldn't trade your family for any amount of money. That makes you wealthy now.

You wouldn't have traded your 18 year old health for any amount of money either. That made you wealthy then.

Those with no other responsibilities and have the disposable income are in the extreme minority.

No, but on a boating site?

The newly retired (for example) might make up a significant fraction of those interested in an entry-level performance boat.

Some things just don't occur to you until you've the means. Performance boating wasn't even on my radar at 19 (and I grew up on a lake and boating).

 

[curtiej10]

Whose mold/model was that originally?

Its the Bahner bottom and we retooled the deck for a more modern look. This boat is 100% woodless, all composite.

 

[LuauLounge]

This could be a reasonably priced start.

1993 Donzi Classic 22

Bid for the chance to own a 1993 Donzi Classic 22 at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #97,438.

bringatrailer.com

Up to $26,250 with a minute to go
Sold for $29k

 

[RiverDave]

Up to $26,250 with a minute to go
Sold for $29k

Not bad!

 

[curtiej10]

A little perspective, I built a new cobra viper in 2002 for $55 with a 350 pretty much bone stock and my second in 2014 a cobra a 26 Venom C for just north of $150k with a full cap but I also did the stereo and some other upgrades myself. In 2013 I sold the 21 viper for $22k and it had a bad ass stereo, new carpet, new interior and several other upgrades, now that boat sells for mid $30s. Its all what you consider an entry level boat to you.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

You are in the upper 1% of wealth in the world, so I would agree, Don’t go down that road. Everyone is dealt a different and sometimes bad hand. It just is what it is. Everyone has different standards and those standards evolve.

I get your basic premise here, but he is not comparing his life and saying people below him and because he did it with his hand that everyone else should too. What you want or have or view as an entry point just may not work for him.

The fact that people here even possess a boat or off road toys, puts them in in a position above most living “paycheck to paycheck” most of those people have nicer stuff than I do anyway. .

Can't compare across only one dimension though.

You wouldn't trade your family for any amount of money. That makes you wealthy now.

You wouldn't have traded your 18 year old health for any amount of money either. That made you wealthy then.



No, but on a boating site?

The newly retired (for example) might make up a significant fraction of those interested in an entry-level performance boat.

Some things just don't occur to you until you've the means. Performance boating wasn't even on my radar at 19 (and I grew up on a lake and boating).

The entire point I was making was referring to the resounding opinion that was being presented on this thread that entry level needs to be a 20+ foot $20k+ boat. To think that more than 5% of the population (obviously US, not world) could even remotely think about making a purchase like that is naive to say the least. I see that attitude all the time here where so many members think (or at least that is how the postings come across) that if someone isn't as successful as they are then they are doing something wrong and there is no reason why they can't change that or have what they have.

Now, there is no other intended nor implied meaning or thoughts there.

Now if this was a thread about best performance boat for under $XX,K for a fairly new performance boater, different story altogether.

Now you are talking specifically about a group of boats, not about the people.

 

[RiverDave]

The entire point I was making was referring to the resounding opinion that was being presented on this thread that entry level needs to be a 20+ foot $20k+ boat. To think that more than 5% of the population (obviously US, not world) could even remotely think about making a purchase like that is naive to say the least. I see that attitude all the time here where so many members think (or at least that is how the postings come across) that if someone isn't as successful as they are then they are doing something wrong and there is no reason why they can't change that or have what they have.

Now, there is no other intended nor implied meaning or thoughts there.

Now if this was a thread about best performance boat for under $XX,K for a fairly new performance boater, different story altogether.

Now you are talking specifically about a group of boats, not about the people.

In the spirit of pure conversation here.. I don’t think there was any maliciousness or anything of the sort with regard to the thread or the comments in it..

If someone asked me on the street what would be a nice entry level performance boat I’d talked a 22’ Essex with a small block and a B3 drive which at new would cost 100k right now..

Are there boats you can get cheaper used? Hell yes.. you can buy a spectra 18-20 for 5-20.. old outboards that flat haul ass for the same..

As for this comment though

I see that attitude all the time here where so many members think (or at least that is how the postings come across) that if someone isn't as successful as they are then they are doing something wrong and there is no reason why they can't change that or have what they have.

That isn’t an attitude, that is a fact of life, and the basis of capitalism. We live in a society where one can be anything they want to he and as successful as they want to be..

I’d get it if you said “well I don’t know how”. Because a lot of guys work their asses off and don’t get anywhere while others sail ahead and make it look easy.

I will freely admit my old man taught me how to make money.. what he never taught me (because I think he didn’t know either) was what to do woth it when you have it. That is something I am spending some free time trying to learn and the curve has been steep.. I never understood the power of leverage, the pluses to being in debt, taxes and codes and those implications.. and I still don’t but I’m trying to learn.

I watched a friend throw a down payment on a building, throw a facelift on it and made like 300 grand while putting out less than a 100. That model is scalable from small to big.. find a good deal on a cheap boat that you know you can flip quickly? Even small guys can take a personal loan make two payments and net the profits before paying off the loan.. that shit never even entered my mind. I always thought you just bought and sold.. most people use other peoples money.
There is so much crazy shut out there oj compound interest etc.. where if you invest 100.00 a month after 30 years you got a million.. nobody told me about any of that shit when I was a kid and I’m just now thinking.. god damn it if I woulda known!

Either way I have never found it useful to compare myself to others.. but if I’m unhappy with something or want more then I’ll figure out a way to change it. I hope ya took this for what it was meant to be to say while some have more and some have less.. the smart guys take what they have and make it work for them. Unfortunately I was never very smart but I’m Learning.

 

[clarence]

I see that attitude all the time here where so many members think (or at least that is how the postings come across) that if someone isn't as successful as they are then they are doing something wrong and there is no reason why they can't change that or have what they have.

Really think you're reading into posts something that isn't there.

Who doesn't understand that younger guys have had less time to earn than older guys?

That a guy with two hobbies has less to spend on both than the otherwise identical guy with only one?

That families cost boat money? (And that no one is thought more successful than guys providing for their families?)

 

[Ballyhoo]

Yeah, I think they were maybe hoping that or going none gps lol. 255 with a 520 is a low to mid 70's boat. They had the new 255 with a 520 in it at Hallets in Havasu and I talked to the guy that was the GM at the time and he said they had it up to 72 mph. Granted I think they were running a 24 pitch prop and could pick up a couple of mph but I have a 255 with a 540 and the best I have seen is 76mph with a four blade 26 pitch. 75mph with a 25 labbed 5 blade all on gps.

My guess would be high 70's to mid 80's in the 210.

I spoke with nordic/hallet about a new 255 with a 520 last year and they said that'd be a high 70s mid 80s boat. I'd think a 210 would be well into the 80s or 90s with the same power

Where is @2FF when you need him to verify Hallett top speeds?

I am not sure I have seen a non ski race 210 get 80s-90s. Maybe it exists but it would likely need to be set up with long tabs and a few other mods. A stock 210 with a 520 would probably become a real drivers boat at 70 plus.

I can see a max speed of mid 70s for the 255 with a 520 but to get more than that, you would also probably need long tabs and plenty more HP.

 

[RiverDave]

Where is @2FF when you need him to verify Hallett top speeds?

I am not sure I have seen a non ski race 210 get 80s-90s. Maybe it exists but it would likely need to be set up with long tabs and a few other mods. A stock 210 with a 520 would probably become a real drivers boat at 70 plus.

I can see a max speed of mid 70s for the 255 with a 520 but to get more than that, you would also probably need long tabs and plenty more HP.

210 with an 500 ran a little over 80.. Ricky used to have one

 

[Flying_Lavey]

In the spirit of pure conversation here.. I don’t think there was any maliciousness or anything of the sort with regard to the thread or the comments in it..

If someone asked me on the street what would be a nice entry level performance boat I’d talked a 22’ Essex with a small block and a B3 drive which at new would cost 100k right now..

Are there boats you can get cheaper used? Hell yes.. you can buy a spectra 18-20 for 5-20.. old outboards that flat haul ass for the same..

As for this comment though



That isn’t an attitude, that is a fact of life, and the basis of capitalism. We live in a society where one can be anything they want to he and as successful as they want to be..

I’d get it if you said “well I don’t know how”. Because a lot of guys work their asses off and don’t get anywhere while others sail ahead and make it look easy.

I will freely admit my old man taught me how to make money.. what he never taught me (because I think he didn’t know either) was what to do woth it when you have it. That is something I am spending some free time trying to learn and the curve has been steep.. I never understood the power of leverage, the pluses to being in debt, taxes and codes and those implications.. and I still don’t but I’m trying to learn.

I watched a friend throw a down payment on a building, throw a facelift on it and made like 300 grand while putting out less than a 100. That model is scalable from small to big.. find a good deal on a cheap boat that you know you can flip quickly? Even small guys can take a personal loan make two payments and net the profits before paying off the loan.. that shit never even entered my mind. I always thought you just bought and sold.. most people use other peoples money.
There is so much crazy shut out there oj compound interest etc.. where if you invest 100.00 a month after 30 years you got a million.. nobody told me about any of that shit when I was a kid and I’m just now thinking.. god damn it if I woulda known!

Either way I have never found it useful to compare myself to others.. but if I’m unhappy with something or want more then I’ll figure out a way to change it. I hope ya took this for what it was meant to be to say while some have more and some have less.. the smart guys take what they have and make it work for them. Unfortunately I was never very smart but I’m Learning.

I agree. I dont think any were malicious either.

I can't remember the thread or exactly what it was about, but it was something more practical than this a few months ago and the comments were earily similar in content and attitude and it was painfully obvious that so many members are in such a bubble that they can't fathom how someone couldn't afford XYZ or how somebody could be in a position to do this or that.

As for the other point about being able to advance one's socio-economic status by working harder etc..... I get that, and really not arguing that. As we all know there are plenty of caveats and different aspects to each scenario that changes the approach for each individual.

I don't have a single issue with giving ideas, opinions, or sharing experiences that worked or didn't. It's the ones that tell you you are doing things wrong for doing XYZ or not doing ABC. But that is far down that worm hole as I am going to go right now.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Really think you're reading into posts something that isn't there.

Who doesn't understand that younger guys have had less time to earn than older guys?

That a guy with two hobbies has less to spend on both than the otherwise identical guy with only one?

That families cost boat money? (And that no one is thought more successful than guys providing for their families?)

I can see how it could come across that I was implying there were intentions behind the posts in this thread and if it did, I apologize. That was not my intent.

Like I said in the post I just made as a reply to RD, this isn't the first time I've seen that kind of attitude though. There have been other threads where members cannot understand why someone has not been able to buy a house by X age etc. And a couple of other threads where some of those same members have lectured others how they have made poor decisions and haven't provided the best they could for their families. That's the attitude that irritates the hell out of me and can be quiet off-putting to many newer members or lurkers.

 

[clarence]

There have been other threads where members cannot understand why someone has not been able to buy a house by X age etc. And a couple of other threads where some of those same members have lectured others how they have made poor decisions and haven't provided the best they could for their families. That's the attitude that irritates the hell out of me and can be quiet off-putting to many newer members or lurkers.

Fair enough. I guess I just haven't seen those.

 

[Ballyhoo]

210 with an 500 ran a little over 80.. Ricky used to have one

Ok, there is some verification. How was that ride at that speed? Any tabs?

 

[RiverDave]

Ok, there is some verification. How was that ride at that speed? Any tabs?

I never drove it but he liked the boat a lot..

 

[Outdrive1]

Ok, there is some verification. How was that ride at that speed? Any tabs?

I was in that boat, it ran 83 I think. I’ve driven a bunch of 210’s. Even one with Cav plates and a big NA motor. They are super flighty without tabs. They need a lot of power to run big numbers because they take so much tab or cav plate to keep them settled down.

 

[Flatsix66]

Can we move this thread to the Outboard Church please. Obviously performance and value = outboard.

 

[RiverDave]

I can see how it could come across that I was implying there were intentions behind the posts in this thread and if it did, I apologize. That was not my intent.

Like I said in the post I just made as a reply to RD, this isn't the first time I've seen that kind of attitude though. There have been other threads where members cannot understand why someone has not been able to buy a house by X age etc. And a couple of other threads where some of those same members have lectured others how they have made poor decisions and haven't provided the best they could for their families. That's the attitude that irritates the hell out of me and can be quiet off-putting to many newer members or lurkers.

I have never read anything like that on here.. as in ever, and I’ve seen some asshole shit on here.

I think you might be seeing something that isn’t there?

 

[Flying_Lavey]

I have never read anything like that on here.. as in ever, and I’ve seen some asshole shit on here.

I think you might be seeing something that isn’t there?

I wish I could remember the most recent thread so I can give you a precise example, but I can't.

The one I'm thinking of was extremely blatant, not much of anything to be misinterpreted

 

[707dog]

SOOO did we get the answer the OP was trying to seek???

 

[Gelcoater]

View attachment 1195435
We offer our M-19 in serval different configurations. With an LS Jet we are at $75k and a 300R outboard $80K. We also can sell as a kit boat that you can rig yourself.

is there enough transom to do a small block I/O package?

 

[BIGRED9158]

is there enough transom to do a small block I/O package?

I asked Dave about that at the boat show and he said no

 

[sml]

Go be poor somewhere else flying lavey

 

[sml]

I was in that boat, it ran 83 I think. I’ve driven a bunch of 210’s. Even one with Cav plates and a big NA motor. They are super flighty without tabs. They need a lot of power to run big numbers because they take so much tab or cav plate to keep them settled down.

Pump yore brakes tres martin

 

[sml]

Yes. And obviously I know there are guys that do not follow that, but there are many that do and that almost swarm together on the topic which is quiet off-putting to many newer members and that results in less and less new members which is not good for ol' RD.

I didn't think any 0qrticular boat is being talked down on, but general types are by their exclusion from entry level discussions, yet they are more entry level than the ones being discussed.

put it this way, someone googles "entry level performance boat" this thread will be one of the top results. Based on that, someone that reads this that really wants to get into it comes away assuming you habe to spend a minimum of $20k to get into something and it has to be a specific type.

The road of comparing where one is at in life. Been down that road too many times here.

Unfortunately your example IS 5% or less than the population. And have you looked at the latest polls for debit to income, who's living paycheck to paycheck, etc? Cause those polls show that a $20k luxury expense (a performance boat is 100% not needed so it is in fact a luxury) is not something 95% of the population can afford..

Those with no other responsibilities and have the disposable income are in the extreme minority.

Keep in mind you are posting on a boating site that is about the colorado river from mead to blythe. Not too many new “entry level” cheap production boats. If we are talking anytown, usa east of the Mississippi then yes bayliners and sea doo botes galore, then this could be a fair debate.

Have you been on a body of water lately? People rolling 200k plus pontoons, 200k plus wakeboard boats. I say good for them. It doesn’t matter how they can and do afford it, it’s not your concern. From the looks of things The minority must be the 95 percent you claim can’t afford a 20k luxury expense….

EDIT: i want to respond to the rest but it’s not worth it, it’s posts like yours that are quite off putting

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Go be poor somewhere else flying lavey

Go be an arrogant asshole elsewhere. Sorry the truth about the current financial situation of 95% of the country doesn't jive with your opinions and beliefs but facts are facts.

Keep in mind you are posting on a boating site that is about the colorado river from mead to blythe. Not too many new “entry level” cheap production boats. If we are talking anytown, usa east of the Mississippi then yes bayliners and sea doo botes galore, then this could be a fair debate.

Have you been on a body of water lately? People rolling 200k plus pontoons, 200k plus wakeboard boats. I say good for them. It doesn’t matter how they can and do afford it, it’s not your concern. From the looks of things The minority must be the 95 percent you claim can’t afford a 20k luxury expense….

EDIT: i want to respond to the rest but it’s not worth it, it’s posts like yours that are quite off putting

And I knew someone would come along and reinforce my sentiments. Thank you for doing so.

The OP clearly stated elsewhere in the country and never did state new models. I understand how it's interpreted that way and opinions given as such. Dismissing used and much more practical entry level performance boats is a bit disingenuous though since that is that route that almost nobody ever goes to get into the hobby.

 

[Ricks raft]

Yep. Mine did the same. 300HP 5.7 Volvo Penta. The boat is just really light.

Amazing. I had 20.5 bahner with the 350 forged Volvo with a small blower on it, never got to 70. But it did have the big heavy 290 out drive. Great bottom end and midrange though.

 

[NicPaus]

How many slept in a slide in camper in the back of a truck?

It’s always “Those were best memories of my life in that camper!”

As they haul $300k + in gear out to make the desert like their house. Whatever makes them happy.

I lived in one of those campers with no truck under it! From living on the hill to broke living in a camper. Talk about motivation to start hustling. Definitely not the best memories. 4 years later I bought my first boat. Entry level 18' Tahiti. 3 years later bought a brand new Ultra 22 Stealth. Back then a brand new entry level 21' Ultra with 350 alpha was $24,999 special on the front of the boat trader.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Amazing. I had 20.5 bahner with the 350 forged Volvo with a small blower on it, never got to 70. But it did have the big heavy 290 out drive. Great bottom end and midrange though.

That boat had a ton of room, but the ride is not even comparable between it and my 230 Cobra. It will only do 61-62 fully loaded in summer, 65-66 in perfect conditions with a 320 HP 6.2 My Cobra is simply a heavier boat with a deeper V and more freeboard.

The Caliber looked almost like a bass boat from the bottom

 

[Tamalewagon]

Must be winter around here for a thread like this to go off track.

Relax guys, no one is talking down on your boat if you have an out board or jet. Yes those are considered performance boats too but I imagine a large chunk of people looking to get into performance boating are wanting a ride that is smoother and not such a “drivers boat”.

@lavey I think it’s all relative. 20-30k for an entry level used custom performance boat isn’t setting the bar too high when a used wakeboard rig would be that or much more. But maybe I’m out of touch.

This is was to be a simple mental exercise boys, no need to take this personal.

All opinions are welcome hence the ask.

Back on topic...here you go https://www.facebook.com/marketplac...ghtspeed_banner&referralCode=messenger_banner

 

[RiverDave]

I wish I could remember the most recent thread so I can give you a precise example, but I can't.

The one I'm thinking of was extremely blatant, not much of anything to be misinterpreted

If you were referring to my go he poor somewhere else comment, it was a joke.. lol

 

[Flying_Lavey]

If you were referring to my go he poor somewhere else comment, it was a joke.. lol

No. I have had enough conversations and pseudo-relationship with you over the years that I understand your sarcasm.

Now the sake comment above from sml along with his follow up post is a dofferent story.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

there is absolutly nothing out there that compares to a hallett 210,..run over 70 with under 400hp.... easy to drive and rides smooth in ruff water.... plus, timeless design...

 

[clarence]

I wish I could remember the most recent thread so I can give you a precise example, but I can't.

The one I'm thinking of was extremely blatant, not much of anything to be misinterpreted

Was it the https://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/threads/americans-and-car-debt.261461/ thread?

Because if it was, I think you mistook the point there as well.

Must be nice to be able to pop $50k+ cash down on a vehicle as is the RDP way. I'd love to hear how the experts suggest building a large enough cash reserve in today's economy when you have to pay current mortgage/rent, insurances, cell, utilities, food for a family, etc.

Extra bonus.... throw in some family medical issues on top of that since they are pretty common place now-a-days.

"Must be nice" suggests those with means somehow don't deserve it or had it easier. You cannot know that.

And since very few just got lucky, you insult everyone who worked hard to get where they are.

Man.... the blinders member have here is incredible.

Who here rents in SoCal?
Who here has bought a first home within the past 3 years?
Who here has only a 1 income household because your spouse cannot work for a multitude of reasons?

I'd go out on a limb here and say these do not apply to the overwhelming majority of the members and apply to almost ZERO of the members giving advice here. .

Why should it? Good advice is good advice, whether from a lottery winner or personal finance author.

The advice is not to plop $50k+ down on a vehicle.

Remember, just because you are in a good financial situation doesn't mean everybody else CAN get to that position as quickly as you did. AND in today's economy it is FAR harder to get to that situation. $3k rent/mortgage is about the average for a 3/2 house or apartment.

Pretty damn hard to build up $$$$ where you can plop it down on a car. Even a $16k used car.

No one ever suggested it's equally easy. Just that you should play the cards you're dealt well.

The advice is to pay cash rather than finance at a high rate.

That means paying cash for a used car you can afford, rather than financing a new car you otherwise can't. That's all.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Was it the https://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/threads/americans-and-car-debt.261461/ thread?

Because if it was, I think you mistook the point there as well.



"Must be nice" suggests those with means somehow don't deserve it or had it easier. You cannot know that.

And since very few just got lucky, you insult everyone who worked hard to get where they are.



Why should it? Good advice is good advice, whether from a lottery winner or personal finance author.

The advice is not to plop $50k+ down on a vehicle.



No one ever suggested it's equally easy. Just that you should play the cards you're dealt well.

The advice is to pay cash rather than finance at a high rate.

That means paying cash for a used car you can afford, rather than financing a new car you otherwise can't. That's all.

One of the points that was being brought up in that thread repeatedly was how irresponsible it was to finance a vehicle without a large down. I understand how it can be much better to put down the cash rather than finance.

I understand and appreciate advice. It's the commentary and negative opinion of a person if they aren't heading that advice which was brought up in that thread.

"Must be nice" isn't insulting anybody. Again, not a single problem with anybody working hard for their money or coming into a windfall one way or another. It's the attitude and comments of "if you don't do XYZ then you are failing".

 

[sml]

Go be an arrogant asshole elsewhere. Sorry the truth about the current financial situation of 95% of the country doesn't jive with your opinions and beliefs but facts are facts.

And I knew someone would come along and reinforce my sentiments. Thank you for doing so.

The OP clearly stated elsewhere in the country and never did state new models. I understand how it's interpreted that way and opinions given as such. Dismissing used and much more practical entry level performance boats is a bit disingenuous though since that is that route that almost nobody ever goes to get into the hobby.

First off…. Fuck you , It was a joke.

Second,

The op clearly stated

What are suggestions for an entry level performance boat? Let's define performance boat as basic inboard boat runs 60mph on up.

For midwest/ east coast people, i was thinking a cobalt or baja with a 496 and bravo.

For West Coast any of the ultra, caliber 1, etc 23' v bottoms with 496 and bravo.

In this market None of these are sub 20,000 boats? So why would anyone commenting here think of suggesting one?

 

[clarence]

I understand and appreciate advice. It's the commentary and negative opinion of a person if they aren't heading that advice which was brought up in that thread.

Still don't see it in the thread.

But even if it was there, what's the problem? If you agree cash is better than financing, why wouldn't you have a negative opinion of someone financing?


There were ~20 posts before your first complaining about the "RDP way" (plopping $50k+ down on a vehicle).

Only one said "Cash only." The rest thought the $700 average monthly payment was too high.

So where'd your complaint come from? Another thread?


Your second post (TREMENDOUSLY harder today) was in reply to the advice to work harder, change jobs, work for yourself, or otherwise take financial risks. And that the only thing holding you back is you.

It's not harder today (that should encourage you), but even if it is, it only makes the advice more valuable.

Why take offense?

"Must be nice" isn't insulting anybody.

C'mon, man.

It's the attitude and comments of "if you don't do XYZ then you are failing".

If you make poor decisions, you are failing.

You can argue financing can be a good decision (if your expected return elsewhere is higher and/or expect to make payments with inflated dollars) or that circumstances makes financing necessary (hard to do when there are inexpensive used cars available), but why give a fuck about attitude and comments?

 

[RiverDave]

No. I have had enough conversations and pseudo-relationship with you over the years that I understand your sarcasm.

Now the sake comment above from sml along with his follow up post is a dofferent story.

I was gonna tell you he was joking as well but looks like I missed that opportunity lol

 

[sml]

I didn't think any 0qrticular boat is being talked down on, but general types are by their exclusion from entry level discussions, yet they are more entry level than the ones being discussed.

put it this way, someone googles "entry level performance boat" this thread will be one of the top results. Based on that, someone that reads this that really wants to get into it comes away assuming you habe to spend a minimum of $20k to get into something and it has to be a specific type.

The road of comparing where one is at in life. Been down that road too many times here.

Unfortunately your example IS 5% or less than the population. And have you looked at the latest polls for debit to income, who's living paycheck to paycheck, etc? Cause those polls show that a $20k luxury expense (a performance boat is 100% not needed so it is in fact a luxury) is not something 95% of the population can afford..

Those with no other responsibilities and have the disposable income are in the extreme minority.

Polls? No one ever contacted me about a poll? So how do you know this information is accurate if you don’t know who is being polled?

 

[curtiej10]

is there enough transom to do a small block I/O package?

You’d have to have a pretty big hatch

 

[Ballyhoo]

I was in that boat, it ran 83 I think. I’ve driven a bunch of 210’s. Even one with Cav plates and a big NA motor. They are super flighty without tabs. They need a lot of power to run big numbers because they take so much tab or cav plate to keep them settled down.

That is what I have seen also. Thank you.

 

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