E bike question

[H20 Toie]

i know bunch here ride

What are your thoughts on Specialzed turbo Levo expert?
i have a Specialzed fat boy that i like but just get so exhausted riding that i dont ride, thinking the electric will help and work up stamina
its not a electric throttle so you have to pedal , im so of shape that its embarrassing .

found a used one local thats my size

 

[Wizard29]

i know bunch here ride

What are your thoughts on Specialzed turbo Levo expert?
i have a Specialzed fat boy that i like but just get so exhausted riding that i dont ride, thinking the electric will help and work up stamina
its not a electric throttle so you have to pedal , im so of shape that its embarrassing .

found a used one local thats my size


View attachment 1262475

It's a good bike and a couple of my friends have them. If you can get it for a decent price, you won't be dissatisfied. The ebikes are great for getting out on a ride on those days when you just aren't feeling it.

I wrestle with the price Specialized wants for these though. I think a lot of it is paying for the name. I ended up going with a Luna, which is competitive with the Specialized in every category. Got mine brand new for less than $4K while an equivalently equipped Specialized was going for around $7K at the time.

If you can't get the Specialized for under $4K, take a look at Luna and others.

 

[ChumpChange]

I have a bike shop customer that Specialized bought out. If you’re going new, let me know.

 

[angiebaby]

I have heard good things about them. I think you will enjoy it, Dan. You can still get a workout. Jeff says the class 1 e-bike is like being 10 years old again. We really enjoy ours, but we have Giants. Just did a "Rails to Trails" ride last week- 30 miles. I know a lot of people like the Levo.

 

[TrollerDave]

i know bunch here ride

What are your thoughts on Specialzed turbo Levo expert?
i have a Specialzed fat boy that i like but just get so exhausted riding that i dont ride, thinking the electric will help and work up stamina
its not a electric throttle so you have to pedal , im so of shape that its embarrassing .

found a used one local thats my size


View attachment 1262475

I rode with my buddy and his group on an e-bike. It was the only way I was going to make it. It was still a good work out, but without it, I would have been done on the first hill. It was my buddies bike and it had an adjustment on how much “pedal assist” you can use.

 

[Dan Lorenze]

i know bunch here ride

What are your thoughts on Specialzed turbo Levo expert?
i have a Specialzed fat boy that i like but just get so exhausted riding that i dont ride, thinking the electric will help and work up stamina
its not a electric throttle so you have to pedal , im so of shape that its embarrassing .

found a used one local thats my size


View attachment 1262475

You can't go wrong with a Specialized Levo. I have the Levo Comp, similar to the Expert but the Expert has better components and I totally love my bike. Almost all my friends are on Levo's too... Specialized stands behind their products, even when you buy them used. If your motor should become defective Specialized will probably take care of you, they are a very good company in that regard.

Riding an E-bike is very fun because you have a motor assisting you. So you'll most likely never be in a situation where you're walking the bike up a long hill, the motor will pull you up when you're pedaling. I love the fact that I know that I'm not going to get my butt kicked out on the trail, you'll enjoy riding so much more and go more often knowing that you're not gonna have a heart attach from over exertion, it's all about riding. I've been taking my bike up to the bike park at Snow Summit, it's a total blast.

I would totally recommend going for it. it's so fun. Lot's of riding out where you live too...

 

[460 2.0]

Doesn’t an electric bike kind of defeat the purpose of having a bike?

 

[Neverbowdown]

I guess I'll go be poor somewhere else......

 

[TrollerDave]

Doesn’t an electric bike kind of defeat the purpose of having a bike?

If you get the kind that just assists your pedaling, an out of shape guy can get a good work out and still ride with friends that are more fit. I think it’s actually a great tool to get people moving, especially if you go mountain biking vs just tooling around on flatland.

I guess I'll go be poor somewhere else......

That’s why I went mountain biking once. One of the reasons anyway.

 

[clarence]

Doesn’t an electric bike kind of defeat the purpose of having a bike?

No more than a bike defeats the purpose of walking.

Still requires effort, just faster.

 

[Kbach]

It's a good bike and a couple of my friends have them. If you can get it for a decent price, you won't be dissatisfied. The ebikes are great for getting out on a ride on those days when you just aren't feeling it.

I wrestle with the price Specialized wants for these though. I think a lot of it is paying for the name. I ended up going with a Luna, which is competitive with the Specialized in every category. Got mine brand new for less than $4K while an equivalently equipped Specialized was going for around $7K at the time.

If you can't get the Specialized for under $4K, take a look at Luna and others.

Same here! I knew a guy that worked at Specialized and they used to hand out 50% coupon codes like it was a harbor freight 20% coupon. Gives you an idea of the markup on those damn things!!

 

[Sportin' Wood]

I love my e-MTB. It takes the suck out of the climbs, and the components allow me to enjoy the ride much better. My downside is that I don't have anyone who enjoys riding and 99% of the time have to ride solo.

Sara Park on an e-MTB is much better than a traditional bike due to the sand and nuisance rocks. I've actually ridden cross country across terrain I could never ride with a standard bike, climbing hills I could not ride when I was a teenager.

The e-MTB allows my old knees the chance to get out on trails in my mid-50s. FWIW I ride the trails where e-bikes are prohibited and accept that a fine is permission to ride for a fee. While I get the evil eye from some, so far no LEO or Rangers have said a word.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I love my e-MTB. It takes the suck out of the climbs, and the components allow me to enjoy the ride much better. My downside is that I don't have anyone who enjoys riding and 99% of the time have to ride solo.

Sara Park on an e-MTB is much better than a traditional bike due to the sand and nuisance rocks. I've actually ridden cross country across terrain I could never ride with a standard bike, climbing hills I could not ride when I was a teenager.

The e-MTB allows my old knees the chance to get out on trails in my mid-50s. FWIW I ride the trails where e-bikes are prohibited and accept that a fine is permission to ride for a fee. While I get the evil eye from some, so far no LEO or Rangers have said a word.

What most E-Bike advocates don't get is the trail damage done by E-Bikes. There are now brake bumps on turn entrances and exits on trails I've ridden for many years around Phoenix.

I get the fact that E-Bikes get sedentary folks up and out on the trails and can appreciate that. I don't really have a personal opinion on E-Bikes, other than trail damage.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

What most E-Bike advocates don't get is the trail damage done by E-Bikes. There are now brake bumps on turn entrances and exits on trails I've ridden for many years around Phoenix.

I get the fact that E-Bikes get sedentary folks up and out on the trails and can appreciate that. I don't really have a personal opinion on E-Bikes, other than trail damage.

I can't speak to your experience with brake bumps, but it sounds subjective. I have a really hard time believing e-MTBs are doing more resource damage as a result of the assist, but rather the increase in users of trails. Regardless, I will continue to ride my e-MTB on MTB trails until they throw me in jail. I fought for OHV access for most of my life and have learned that it is better to ignore regulations than to waste my precious time advocating for access. I would rather pay a fine than invest my time in fighting for access.

The most destructive use of trails is horses, and they are legal on many MTB trails.

 

[sirbob]

Check the weight rating - I blew some fuses because I was too heavy going up a hill.

I've lost sone weight and don't have that problem anymore, it seems to work fine on the same hill now.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I can't speak to your experience with brake bumps, but it sounds subjective. I have a really hard time believing e-MTBs are doing more resource damage as a result of the assist, but rather the increase in users of trails. Regardless, I will continue to ride my e-MTB on MTB trails until they throw me in jail. I fought for OHV access for most of my life and have learned that it is better to ignore regulations than to waste my precious time advocating for access. I would rather pay a fine than invest my time in fighting for access.

The most destructive use of trails is horses, and they are legal on many MTB trails.

Its subjective because of how professionally built trails are laid out. They are built with speeds of corner entrance and exit speeds in mind. Anything over that and excessive braking is needed , which creates brake bumps (with modern suspension bikes). I ride a trail system here called Black Canyon Trail. It runs from essentially Mayer, to just about Lake Pleasant. It's a trail I can average about 10MPH on, for 62 miles, all quality single-track. I have a buddy with that same exact E-Bike the OP is asking about. He can average 16-17. Scrubbing speed into and out of corners is where the trail damage comes from.

There are also maximum average gradient professional trail builders use, with regular bikes in mind.

I'm not here to argue trail access, just some information as to why you might get the evil eye. And yes, Horses are the absolute worst, and have the worst attitude as to multi-use.

I can evolve to brake bumps, I never once have advocated for closing access to E-Bikes.

 

[was thatguy]

I get the fact that E-Bikes get sedentary folks up and out on the trails and can appreciate that.

True, but that doesn’t help if one continues to shotgun bacon peanut butter cheeseburgers!
(Ask me how I know)

 

[TrollerDave]

I can't speak to your experience with brake bumps, but it sounds subjective. I have a really hard time believing e-MTBs are doing more resource damage as a result of the assist, but rather the increase in users of trails. Regardless, I will continue to ride my e-MTB on MTB trails until they throw me in jail. I fought for OHV access for most of my life and have learned that it is better to ignore regulations than to waste my precious time advocating for access. I would rather pay a fine than invest my time in fighting for access.

The most destructive use of trails is horses, and they are legal on many MTB trails.

Could it be that the restriction are to bikes that can go 30 mph under electric power without pedaling. Like I was mentioning about the bike I rode, you had to pedal to make it move. The electric part just made it easier to pedal.

 

[2Driver]

You don’t need the expert model. Not sure what price he’s asking but you can get a new turbo Levo comp alloy for a $5,600 and it comes with a full warranty and lifetime frame warranty.

Repairing ebikes can be expensive. There is also an app from specialized that will read out the mileage battery health and battery cycles. I’d by new.

I got the turbo levo comp carbon on a deal but I’d just buy the alloy version. Just don’t get the SL, get the one with the bigger 700 watt battery.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I have 0 issue with e bikes.. but don’t ask why society has gone soft… it’s all right here.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

@H20 Toie

As to your question on the bike. It's great bike. Will do everything you need it to.

HOWEVER, I quit drinking the Specialized S-Works Kool-aid. All my bikes are and have been Specialized S-Works for the last 15 years or so. The price delta for Specialized vs other has always been close enough to just stick with them.

Enter Canyon Bikes. Their business model jumps over retail and is factory direct. Their bikes are very high quality, and you get FAR, FAR more bike for your money than you do with any of the Treks/Specialized. You'll get components others only put on their high end models for the next level down price point, or even more perhaps.

ALWAYS charge an E-Bike outside.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

You don’t need the expert model. Not sure what price he’s asking but you can get a new turbo Levo comp alloy for a $5,600 and it comes with a full warranty and lifetime frame warranty.

Repairing ebikes can be expensive. There is also an app from specialized that will read out the mileage battery health and battery cycles. I’d by new.

I got the turbo levo comp carbon on a deal but I’d just buy the alloy version. Just don’t get the SL, get the one with the bigger 700 watt battery.

Do you ride the P/D trails near your house?

 

[Sportin' Wood]

I have 0 issue with e bikes.. but don’t ask why society has gone soft… it’s all right here.

Wait a few more years and you'll understand the attraction. BTW you live in one of my favorite riding areas, it is amazing the trail systems you have.

When I lived in Reno, I used to ride the Truckee River trail and there are sections where I had to hike a bike. It was zero fun. (I had a traditional MTB) I noticed older couples on e-MTB riding the trails and talked to a few. The e-assist gave them the extra bump they needed to be out enjoying the trails and extending their recreational activities. I think that is a great thing.

I can't speak for other e-MTB riders, but it is rare that I use settings above the lowest assistance level. We rode about 30 miles last week in a group, my battery was still nearly at full capacity and I never came off the lowest level. However, I rode that same trail a few years ago on a traditional MTB and it sucked. It just was not fun riding 15 miles uphill.

I've considered going back to a non-powered bike, but why? Weight savings would be the only perceived benefit I can think of. The components on my e-MTB are far better than the traditional Specialized MTB sitting in storage.

 

[H20 Toie]

Check the weight rating - I blew some fuses because I was too heavy going up a hill.

I've lost sone weight and don't have that problem anymore, it seems to work fine on the same hill now.

yeah im pretty much over the weight rating on any of them, but dont expect to be going up any big hills soon. so that should help

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Wait a few more years and you'll understand the attraction. BTW you live in one of my favorite riding areas, it is amazing the trail systems you have.

When I lived in Reno, I used to ride the Truckee River trail and there are sections where I had to hike a bike. It was zero fun. (I had a traditional MTB) I noticed older couples on e-MTB riding the trails and talked to a few. The e-assist gave them the extra bump they needed to be out enjoying the trails and extending their recreational activities. I think that is a great thing.

I can't speak for other e-MTB riders, but it is rare that I use settings above the lowest assistance level. We rode about 30 miles last week in a group, my battery was still nearly at full capacity and I never came off the lowest level. However, I rode that same trail a few years ago on a traditional MTB and it sucked. It just was not fun riding 15 miles uphill.

I've considered going back to a non-powered bike, but why? Weight savings would be the only perceived benefit I can think of. The components on my e-MTB are far better than the traditional Specialized MTB sitting in storage.

Again… 0 issue with the bikes and I understand they give more access to people with injury or limitations which is great.

I am no pillar of fitness, but riding my regular bike to get in shape sucks. Getting in shape supposed to suck so you can have pride in the result.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Again… 0 issue with the bikes and I understand they give more access to people with injury or limitations which is great.

Riding my regular bike to get in shape sucks. It’s supposed to suck

I don't ride for exercise, I ride for fun. It's inevitable that you have to ride uphill, so why not make that equally as fun as the downhill sections? It is seriously awesome to ride a MTB up Jeep obstacles. Sometimes it's laughable what you can climb on one of these things.

 

[2Driver]

Do you ride the P/D trails near your house?

All the time. Have been riding there from when they were dirt bike trails and the volunteer trail Karen’s weren’t out telling me I didn’t have enough water, not to ride in the puddles or to watch out for aggressive hawks, bees snakes etc.., lol

Some asshat over there has a real a hard on for e-bikes but if you ride there they back off. Ive rideen with some local guys that e-bike there all the time. I just take my regular trek Ex8. I’m not a cardio king by any means but get it done.

How about you?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I don't ride for exercise, I ride for fun. It's inevitable that you have to ride uphill, so why not make that equally as fun as the downhill sections? It is seriously awesome to ride a MTB up Jeep obstacles. Sometimes it's laughable what you can climb on one of these things.

When I no longer need to ride for exercise it might be fun

Totally get that part of the E bike deal.

Speaking of that I should have probably hopped on the bike this morning already.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

i know bunch here ride

What are your thoughts on Specialzed turbo Levo expert?
i have a Specialzed fat boy that i like but just get so exhausted riding that i dont ride, thinking the electric will help and work up stamina
its not a electric throttle so you have to pedal , im so of shape that its embarrassing .

found a used one local thats my size


View attachment 1262475

@H20 Toie I hate to be captain obvious, but you do know that seat is going to punish you?

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

All the time. Have been riding there from when they were dirt bike trails and the volunteer trail Karen’s weren’t out telling me I didn’t have enough water, not to ride in the puddles or to watch out for aggressive hawks, bees snakes etc.., lol

Some asshat over there has a real a hard on for e-bikes but if you ride there they back off. Ive rideen with some local guys that e-bike there all the time. I just take my regular trek Ex8. I’m not a cardio king by any means but get it done.

How about you?

I rode out there after racing the original Cactus Cup race a bunch of times. We actually bought a house out there. Top of Jomax Rd above Greasewood Flats.

Fantastic road riding as well. I could ride Dynamite down to McDowell Mtn park and back and only a few cars would go by me.

The trails; My business partner was one of the original guys out there when they called it "Murphy's". Murphy and a guy named Dave Dugan were some of the original guys that ribboned it off and made some great stuff. Dave died on a street bike on Yarnell hill back in 88-90 or so.

When they made it a preserve, we had many confrontations with Karla. She was absolutely militant about it. Her and her minions would stand in the trail, waving their arms, blowing whistles when we would come up on them. She was nuts.

I kinda lost interest when the preserve took control of everything and dumbed down lots of the trails. I'd love to hook up and ride some with you when it cools some. I don't mind the heat, but this is just too hot for the MTB. I'm almost 100% road right now. I can ride with E-bikes guys as long as they understand I'm not on one.

 

[satellitemike]

Thats a nice bike but ask yourself this question, are you really going to use to go do some serious mountain biking? If not go w something a bit more gear for the street and basic trails. I have a Haibike, it does not have a throttle and works great for 99% of the stuff I will ever do.
Mine is similar to this one. https://flyridesusa.com/products/haibike-sduro-trekking-5

 

[Mikes56]

My wife and I each have Levos, we also have Vados. We bought them new, when they were on sale for $5600 each. They were $7500 each and I just couldn’t spend that much, so we waited for a sale. They have been excellent bikes and we still get in a workout. Gone are the days of bonking and not knowing how you’re going to make it home lol.

We’ve had more fun on our bikes than I can describe. We’re both 60 years old and they make us feel 25 again.

Get the bike!!!!

 

[H20 Toie]

Thats a nice bike but ask yourself this question, are you really going to use to go do some serious mountain biking? If not go w something a bit more gear for the street and basic trails. I have a Haibike, it does not have a throttle and works great for 99% of the stuff I will ever do.
Mine is similar to this one. https://flyridesusa.com/products/haibike-sduro-trekking-5

Probably never but i found that the mountain bikes hold up better when you are 6'4 and over 300 pounds. not bending wheels like i did on street bikes and better when going to the beach

 

[ChumpChange]

Check the weight rating - I blew some fuses because I was too heavy going up a hill.

I've lost sone weight and don't have that problem anymore, it seems to work fine on the same hill now.

Did you have to ride a regular bike to lose the weight?

 

[Bigbore500r]

i know bunch here ride

What are your thoughts on Specialzed turbo Levo expert?
i have a Specialzed fat boy that i like but just get so exhausted riding that i dont ride, thinking the electric will help and work up stamina
its not a electric throttle so you have to pedal , im so of shape that its embarrassing .

found a used one local thats my size


View attachment 1262475

I have a late '22 Comp Alloy, S5.
Im a big guy and don't pull any punches when I ride it, and I haven't broken anything. You'll be fine on that front. It's not rated past 275lb but It will handle anyone.

The guys saying "i'll get one when I don't need to exercise" either are hardcore bikers, or haven't riden one. You still pedal your ass off. It just helps you get places you couldn't go without it. I was super out of shape when I got mine, and after 4-5 weeks I found myself using less assist and leaving it on "eco" most of the time, unless dealing with sizable hills. It's great to get you out of your rut and working towards getting in shape.

If it hasn't been posted already, you should look into deals buying new and get the warranty.
You don't want the carbon frame for what your gonna be doing. Stick to Aluminum, the Levo Comp Alloy is the best bang for the buck - has the 700kwh battery, Fox 36 air fork, and the 22-up have the newer design motor which is much less problematic. Buying new gets you the motor warranty, which is a good thing to have for us big guys.

I love mine, I was riding the shit out of it since when I got it back in December. Then mid April . . .MTB bike park......I ran out of talent....
Got knocked out, folded my shoulder into my chest and couldn't breath. Spent the night in the ER, luckily nothing broken but serious bruising and road rash.
My shoulder and back are finally 100%, I got seriously screwed up! My ring finger doesn't bend, I need to go back and see whats up with that, hoping its not permanantly screwed....

Just remember....when you fall it fuckin hurts!

 

[H20 Toie]

Found a great video, instead of totally in shape guy talking about bikes here is a big guy like me tearing it up

 

[sirbob]

Did you have to ride a regular bike to lose the weight?

No
You can’t lose weight exorcizing. You have to eat less

 

[ChumpChange]

No
You can’t lose weight exorcizing. You have to eat less

Don’t bring common sense into this.

 

[TrollerDave]

I have a late '22 Comp Alloy, S5.
Im a big guy and don't pull any punches when I ride it, and I haven't broken anything. You'll be fine on that front. It's not rated past 275lb but It will handle anyone.

The guys saying "i'll get one when I don't need to exercise" either are hardcore bikers, or haven't riden one. You still pedal your ass off. It just helps you get places you couldn't go without it. I was super out of shape when I got mine, and after 4-5 weeks I found myself using less assist and leaving it on "eco" most of the time, unless dealing with sizable hills. It's great to get you out of your rut and working towards getting in shape.

If it hasn't been posted already, you should look into deals buying new and get the warranty.
You don't want the carbon frame for what your gonna be doing. Stick to Aluminum, the Levo Comp Alloy is the best bang for the buck - has the 700kwh battery, Fox 36 air fork, and the 22-up have the newer design motor which is much less problematic. Buying new gets you the motor warranty, which is a good thing to have for us big guys.

I love mine, I was riding the shit out of it since when I got it back in December. Then mid April . . .MTB bike park......I ran out of talent....
Got knocked out, folded my shoulder into my chest and couldn't breath. Spent the night in the ER, luckily nothing broken but serious bruising and road rash.
My shoulder and back are finally 100%, I got seriously screwed up! My ring finger doesn't bend, I need to go back and see whats up with that, hoping its not permanantly screwed....

Just remember....when you fall it fuckin hurts!


View attachment 1262898

View attachment 1262901

You took it off a sweet jump?
Lucky!

Yeah falling hurts A LOT more now.
Glad you’re doing better. My buddy did kind of the same thing but ended up detaching a ligament and his right shoulder sank. A surgery and a year later, he’s close to back to normal.
Be safe all.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

yeah im pretty much over the weight rating on any of them, but dont expect to be going up any big hills soon. so that should help

These are my RADS @H20 Toie very pleased and I can be comfy on either at 6'5" 265 lbs You need a beafy frame not that skinny blue thing... and be sure to go buy a cushy seat.... bad seats will ruin a good ride. Last I heard these are running about $1600 nowadays... the one on rt is a big boy bike. Too beefy and tall for chicks. Wt appx 75 lbs

 

[Wizard29]

What most E-Bike advocates don't get is the trail damage done by E-Bikes. There are now brake bumps on turn entrances and exits on trails I've ridden for many years around Phoenix.

I get the fact that E-Bikes get sedentary folks up and out on the trails and can appreciate that. I don't really have a personal opinion on E-Bikes, other than trail damage.

Interesting. I have built a few trails where I ride and do most of the maintenance on them. I have never attributed any damage I fix to ebikes. I imagine it has a lot to do with the terrain. Where I'm at is constant hills and you are pretty much going up or down. When I ride my ebike, I'm not really going too much faster in either direction than when I ride my regular bike...certainly not fast enough to need to scrub off much additional speed. The climbs are enough of a grade such that you won't build much speed going up and on the descents you get as much speed on a regular bike as you would an ebike.

I can see how it would be different on more rolling terrain with turns though. I ride the ebike to take the edge off the climbs and not get my ass kicked on longer rides when I don't feel like it. Some guys use them to just go faster on trails and get to point A to point B faster. Those I don't care for. They can be dangerous to opposing traffic.

I agree on the worst being horses though. They are the ultimate trail damagers. Drives me nuts how they seem to have this weird desire to go out right after it rains so they can really rut the hell out of everything.

 

[BabyRay]

@H20 Toie I hate to be captain obvious, but you do know that seat is going to punish you?

Redshift makes a great suspension seatpost that would help a lot. I had a bike that was brutal on my back, feeling every bump, and it completely resolved it. Of course that won’t work if the bike has a dropper post.

 

[Dan Lorenze]

Dan, I hope you get that Levo You gotta get moving and an E bike will help you with that. The fact that you have a motor assisting you will make for a better experience which will make you want to ride more. Want more of a workout? Turn the motor down to Eco mode, there’s your workout.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Interesting. I have built a few trails where I ride and do most of the maintenance on them. I have never attributed any damage I fix to ebikes. I imagine it has a lot to do with the terrain. Where I'm at is constant hills and you are pretty much going up or down. When I ride my ebike, I'm not really going too much faster in either direction than when I ride my regular bike...certainly not fast enough to need to scrub off much additional speed. The climbs are enough of a grade such that you won't build much speed going up and on the descents you get as much speed on a regular bike as you would an ebike.

I can see how it would be different on more rolling terrain with turns though. I ride the ebike to take the edge off the climbs and not get my ass kicked on longer rides when I don't feel like it. Some guys use them to just go faster on trails and get to point A to point B faster. Those I don't care for. They can be dangerous to opposing traffic.

I agree on the worst being horses though. They are the ultimate trail damagers. Drives me nuts how they seem to have this weird desire to go out right after it rains so they can really rut the hell out of everything.

As I stated, I really don't care. Just a comment as to what I see the difference to the non-E Bike crowd. I mentioned Black Canyon Trail. It's 62 miles of very high quality single-track, professionally routed and built. Here's a small clip that shows just how good the trail is. If any of you guys are interested, we can do a group ride. I'd be happy to organize and help shuttle it.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Interesting. I have built a few trails where I ride and do most of the maintenance on them. I have never attributed any damage I fix to ebikes. I imagine it has a lot to do with the terrain. Where I'm at is constant hills and you are pretty much going up or down. When I ride my ebike, I'm not really going too much faster in either direction than when I ride my regular bike...certainly not fast enough to need to scrub off much additional speed. The climbs are enough of a grade such that you won't build much speed going up and on the descents you get as much speed on a regular bike as you would an ebike.

I can see how it would be different on more rolling terrain with turns though. I ride the ebike to take the edge off the climbs and not get my ass kicked on longer rides when I don't feel like it. Some guys use them to just go faster on trails and get to point A to point B faster. Those I don't care for. They can be dangerous to opposing traffic.

I agree on the worst being horses though. They are the ultimate trail damagers. Drives me nuts how they seem to have this weird desire to go out right after it rains so they can really rut the hell out of everything.

The thing is - every bike with a battery is called an "E-bike" by MTB purists.....

Theres a huge difference between an E-assist Class 1 / Class 2 MTB like the Levo, and a friggen Surron or hotrodded 100lb fat tire E-bike with a 50mph top speed and a twist throttle.

IMHO - I don't think the Levo's are tearing up the trails much different than any other downhill bike with comparable size tires and use. They do give you a little more ooph climbing but they aren't throwing roost and ripping berms under throttle like some of the gnarly fat-tired bikes out there that are basically motorcycles with a battery.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

The thing is - every bike with a battery is called an "E-bike" by MTB purists.....

Theres a huge difference between an E-assist Class 1 / Class 2 MTB like the Levo, and a friggen Surron or hotrodded 100lb fat tire E-bike with a 50mph top speed and a twist throttle.

IMHO - I don't think the Levo's are tearing up the trails much different than any other downhill bike with comparable size tires and use. They do give you a little more ooph climbing but they aren't throwing roost and ripping berms under throttle like some of the gnarly fat-tired bikes out there that are basically motorcycles with a battery.

You guys are missing my point as to trail damage. The tight, twisty trails, Like the one in the video above, were designed for light, human powered bikes. (and hikers). When you are able to enter a corner, which that trail above is, at a higher than normal rate of speed on a pedal bike, you need to grab a handful of brake to scrub. That action makes the very active suspension of todays bikes react and create brake bumps at entrance and exit. Wheel-spin isn't the issue. Again, I'm not advocating they can't use the trail, it's just information.

And I get the difference between pedal assist and a battery powered motorcycle.

Trail building is an actual science, with lots of data used to route and build. Intended mode of travel is probably the largest factor.

 

[Bigbore500r]

I have 0 issue with e bikes.. but don’t ask why society has gone soft… it’s all right here.

Are you out ripping some trails and hillclimbs on an MTB?

 

[Bigbore500r]

You guys are missing my point as to trail damage. The tight, twisty trails, Like the one in the video above, were designed for light, human powered bikes. (and hikers). When you are able to enter a corner, which that trail above is, at a higher than normal rate of speed on a pedal bike, you need to grab a handful of brake to scrub. That action makes the very active suspension of todays bikes react and create brake bumps at entrance and exit. Wheel-spin isn't the issue. Again, I'm not advocating they can't use the trail, it's just information.

And I get the difference between pedal assist and a battery powered motorcycle.

Trail building is an actual science, with lots of data used to route and build. Intended mode of travel is probably the largest factor.

I can tell you that I'm not doing that - im just trying to get to the top of the hill without dying first lol

 

[Jonas Grumby]

It's a good bike and a couple of my friends have them. If you can get it for a decent price, you won't be dissatisfied. The ebikes are great for getting out on a ride on those days when you just aren't feeling it.

I wrestle with the price Specialized wants for these though. I think a lot of it is paying for the name. I ended up going with a Luna, which is competitive with the Specialized in every category. Got mine brand new for less than $4K while an equivalently equipped Specialized was going for around $7K at the time.

If you can't get the Specialized for under $4K, take a look at Luna and others.

What Luna do you have, guy near me has a x2 enduro for sale for $3350.00. I just don’t like it’s 27.5.
Also has DNM forks and shock coil spring, not air. I’ve been out of the sport a few years, I though coil springs were for DH guys?

 

[Sportin' Wood]

You guys are missing my point as to trail damage. The tight, twisty trails, Like the one in the video above, were designed for light, human powered bikes. (and hikers). When you are able to enter a corner, which that trail above is, at a higher than normal rate of speed on a pedal bike, you need to grab a handful of brake to scrub. That action makes the very active suspension of todays bikes react and create brake bumps at entrance and exit. Wheel-spin isn't the issue. Again, I'm not advocating they can't use the trail, it's just information.

And I get the difference between pedal assist and a battery powered motorcycle.

Trail building is an actual science, with lots of data used to route and build. Intended mode of travel is probably the largest factor.

I love the debate. (I think we are aligned, but love the challenges of ideas)

I agree that the variation in class designation complicates access.

A couple of points for consideration, that make the blanket restriction of e-MTB access on trails frustrating for me, hence my rebel stance. Not directed at ST AH:

• Weight_ The combined weight of the rider and e-MTB is variable and mostly influenced by the rider. I weigh 170 lbs and ride a Carbon Fiber Giant. Yes, it weighs more than my traditional bike, but I doubt the variance between the two is measurable when you average the combined weights of trail users.
• Speed_ I'm no faster downhill or on technical sections of trail on an e-MTB or traditional MTB. The suspension and components' performance outweigh the additional assistance of the electric motor in determining the speed at which I can traverse the terrain.
• Braking_ No advantage
• Acceleration_ No advantage I am leveraging in a way that can impact resources.
• Traction_ My e-MTB has a wider tire than my traditional bike. Both are 29ers. I argue that my e-MTB does significantly less resource damage than my Specialized as the contact patch is increased and I break traction less often, including hard braking and washing out the front tire.

Since I mostly ride at the lowest level, I am often pushed past the assistance of the motor. The motor provides a small amount of multiplication of torque in situations where I might need help, but I would estimate that in the 20% range. What happens when with the press of a button I turn off the assist? Am I still motorized?

Where the e-MTB helps me is leveling the playing field on the rare occasion I ride with more seasoned, younger, or more fit riders. It improves the experience for both riders as the partner is not stuck waiting for me to push my bike up hills or taking excessive breaks.

I'm a huge fan of these bikes as it really makes me feel like a kid again and enjoy bike riding. I wish I would have stepped up to an e-MTB earlier as when I lived in Reno/Tahoe I would have taken better advantage of the trail network. The improved components and suspension have a bigger impact on my speed than the motor. The biggest remaining issue is the seat. My ass gets wrecked long before I run out of steam.

Maybe someone can use some trail science in the development of the offroad trails around Havasu, as those trails and chatter bumps are brutal. Damn, UTVs.