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Kachina26

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I saw this thread yesterday but decided not to comment. But I will say this. In a cert by phone deal it will always show up in the data unless the tech plugs into the exact year, make and model of the vehicle with the same options. Most clean plugs are done using one vehicle that belongs to someone at the shop. So you get say 10 smogs from a vehicle with the exact same communication protocol and pid counts that show up on 10 vehicles that are supposed to have different communication protocols and have different pid counts. It’s a slam dunk and licenses have been revoked on that data alone. If it appears that the shop/tech are running a lucrative illegal smog business then other means are employed and felony charges are often filed. But like anything else, if there’s enough money to be made someone will do it. Have I charged people criminally ? Yes. But they were cases where someone unknowingly ended up with a car that needed thousands of dollars to repair and the shop/techs told the victims and us to fuckoff. I don’t have a stake in this anymore and I feel that the EPA and CARB have way too much power. I personally have never had a desire to modify my stuff in a manner where I would have to seek out help from a criminal. That said, I’m glad there’s no inspection program for motorcycles.
When I first started in the business, I worked at a chain shop that did smogs. One of the shops had a deal with some car lots. The car lots would send a list and they would clean-pipe 30 cars at a time with about 2 minutes between tests. I don't know how they didn't get caught. All this was before OBD-II though.
 

traquer

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Over the years I've heard lots of stories of people knowing a "guy" for smog and I can't imagine the fines/danger for them was any lower back then, so surely that game is still in play. I haven't had a need for these services thankfully, but I imagine it's a manager or some sort of employee who will be your guy that does this when the owner isn't around. I don't think the owner would risk the shop.

BTW passing visual stuff is easy, especially if it's a lowered car. Most techs just won't take the effort to bust out the mirror and check anything under the car. If that's all you need I know a guy I guess who half-asses that part of it.
 

dribble

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When I first started in the business, I worked at a chain shop that did smogs. One of the shops had a deal with some car lots. The car lots would send a list and they would clean-pipe 30 cars at a time with about 2 minutes between tests. I don't know how they didn't get caught. All this was before OBD-II though.
In the early 90's We had a fake dealer license. We had a guy (registered sex offender as it turned out) that we knew was doing that. We went in and told him we were looking for a shop to do our smogs. We brought him a few clean cars. We never asked him to do any thing illegal. After car number three he told us "look just give me the year make model, License number and vin and for 50 bucks each I'll give you a cert". We brought him a list of 17 cars we had in a warehouse and picked up 17 smog certs later that day. Both he and his smog tech were arrested on TV. The tech was able to plea to a misdemeanor because he had no criminal record. The owner was still on probation for unlawful sex with a 15 year old (He was 48). He had to plea to the felony and did 260 days. Bottom line is that the ultimate buyers of these used pieces of shit were the one who got ripped off by the crooked smog shops and dealers.
 

dribble

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I dont know a smog guy but the guy i do know checked 2 of my cars before testing, neiter would pass, ad to drive 55mph for 20 minutes straight, hard to do on freeway, drove to 55/405 from 405/605 3 times to get mustang to pass. Never knew this trick.
On a marginal tailpipe failure you can run it at idle and induce a huge vacuum leak. This will cause the car to go full rich. Then you grab ahold of the throttle and as you put the vacuum booster hose back on you quickly snap the throttle. This will flood the converter with raw gas, superheat it and clean out the substrate. Basically the same as doing a diesel regen. I have seen this work. I might have even done it on my brother's 1995 BMW M5.
 

LakeMeadLavey

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I saw this thread yesterday but decided not to comment. But I will say this. In a cert by phone deal it will always show up in the data unless the tech plugs into the exact year, make and model of the vehicle with the same options. Most clean plugs are done using one vehicle that belongs to someone at the shop. So you get say 10 smogs from a vehicle with the exact same communication protocol and pid counts that show up on 10 vehicles that are supposed to have different communication protocols and have different pid counts. It’s a slam dunk and licenses have been revoked on that data alone. If it appears that the shop/tech are running a lucrative illegal smog business then other means are employed and felony charges are often filed. But like anything else, if there’s enough money to be made someone will do it. Have I charged people criminally ? Yes. But they were cases where someone unknowingly ended up with a car that needed thousands of dollars to repair and the shop/techs told the victims and us to fuckoff. I don’t have a stake in this anymore and I feel that the EPA and CARB have way too much power. I personally have never had a desire to modify my stuff in a manner where I would have to seek out help from a criminal. That said, I’m glad there’s no inspection program for motorcycles.
I have heard they are cracking down on the OBD 2 plug ins. Cars are being tuned to remove the codes to pass the plug in and techs look the other way for the visual. Headers, no cats etc. I know a few who have done this and each of them upon their reg/smog renewals were flagged to go to a Referee station after years of passing.

The other story I heard is CARB or BAR is randomly flagging VIN #'s of cars that are commonly modified such as Mustangs, Camaro's etc. Upon their reg renewals they are flagged to the Ref. Any truth to this or was the SMOG guy flagged and in turn the customers have been sent to the Ref?
 

ka0tyk

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its getting increasingly difficult. the latest is basically allowing BAR resources remote access into the smog equipment to audit the entire process as well as biometrics to match the smog technican to their db of licensee's, etc. they'd have to have a webcam (probably multiple) present so they can see the process remotely at any time and make sure its being plugged into a real vehicle and not a simulator. aka "real time big brother is watching you."

 

Kachina26

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In the early 90's We had a fake dealer license. We had a guy (registered sex offender as it turned out) that we knew was doing that. We went in and told him we were looking for a shop to do our smogs. We brought him a few clean cars. We never asked him to do any thing illegal. After car number three he told us "look just give me the year make model, License number and vin and for 50 bucks each I'll give you a cert". We brought him a list of 17 cars we had in a warehouse and picked up 17 smog certs later that day. Both he and his smog tech were arrested on TV. The tech was able to plea to a misdemeanor because he had no criminal record. The owner was still on probation for unlawful sex with a 15 year old (He was 48). He had to plea to the felony and did 260 days. Bottom line is that the ultimate buyers of these used pieces of shit were the one who got ripped off by the crooked smog shops and dealers.
I do remember one day you guys ran a 4 Runner in with a straight piped cat. It was hidden by a heat shield but we found it. Then we called all the other shops in the chain and told them. Wouldn't you know, a few got the same one in :D. I was never scared to get on the ground and do the proper inspection.
 

Bigbore500r

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You guys don’t realize the risk you put a smog tech in asking for this . The tech always gets caught and in some cases they go after the person receiving the smog cert .
I mean.....the smog tech can say no :p
 
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eand28

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its getting increasingly difficult. the latest is basically allowing BAR resources remote access into the smog equipment to audit the entire process as well as biometrics to match the smog technican to their db of licensee's, etc. they'd have to have a webcam (probably multiple) present so they can see the process remotely at any time and make sure its being plugged into a real vehicle and not a simulator. aka "real time big brother is watching you."

I think Massachusetts has cameras in the inspection stations
 

HALLETT BOY

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With all the emissions clean up , pollution reduction ,
could you imagine if CA did actual annual inspections for tires, suspension, electrical, mechanical, etc? half the cars wouldnt even be on the road.
you’re right , if the state did that , it would be considered racist
 

Badchoices03

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When it’s free and adds 8HP.. who cares.

People put them on 100 HP Hondas for a decade 😄.

Agreed....just sounds silly....and i think in the late 90's early 2000's every honda civic on the street had a DC Header, Cold Air Intake, and some shitty exhaust and thought we were raced out...
 

rivermobster

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Funny...

I just did my 04 330ci the other day, and I don't remember seeing them even use the sniffer!

I sold it to CarMax just to get rid of it.

Technically..........

The seller is responsible for having the car smogged, and I don't want to have Any issues.
 

hawgty55

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FYI If your car is registered at an address with no smog stations you do not need to smog your vehicle. Earp Ca and Borrego Springs Ca have been working for me for years
Needles !
 

HALLETT BOY

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The smog guy across from my old shop got caught doing numerous cars a day with just 1 car in the smog bay , he fled to Utah and the state ( Ca ) has yet to find him . The punishment was extensive.
 

outboard_256

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Funny...

I just did my 04 330ci the other day, and I don't remember seeing them even use the sniffer!

I sold it to CarMax just to get rid of it.

Technically..........

The seller is responsible for having the car smogged, and I don't want to have Any issues.

I sold a car to car max. I asked them about smog. He said if the car is more than a couple of years old they just send them to auction. They only resale fairly new cars. The car buying is just a service they provide, they don't really make money off of it.
 

rivermobster

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Does anybody know if there are CEL's that only dealers can clear?

The dealership it's self isn't really allowed to dig in too deep to any module.

Now the tech support guys with their laptops? They can dig into Anything on your car.

Including the air bag module that is the black box for your car. Insurance companies would LOVE to have this info, but they are not allowed, in most circumstances.
 

ka0tyk

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Does anybody know if there are CEL's that only dealers can clear?

theres basic odbii codes, and then theres "modules" that you can scan individually to see fault codes. pcm for engine, tcm for transmission, bcm for body functions like door locks, headlights, AC and safety systems like adaptive cruise control, etc... new cars all communicate via canbus which is basically a network inside your car. each module has its own memory, settings, etc and thats the difference between like a $30 odbii scan tool and something more advanced/bidirectional. and of course you pay more money for the license to access these modules and the database of information for all of the actual fault codes per manufacturer. then you have more secured systems like ABS and SRS. Those are their own can of worms, some of the ABS/SRS systems have fault tolerances where after so many faults, ie an airbag deployment, a seatbelt retractor, or a seat that isnt reporting a sensor for position to control the airbag deployment force that can ONLY be reset by sending the entire module to a professional company to reset. I found that out the hard way after putting some aftermarket seats in a car that didnt have those sensors and then putting the stock ones back in, the module fault limit basically was "maxxed out" and I had to get it reset. sucked.
 

Kachina26

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The dealership it's self isn't really allowed to dig in too deep to any module.

Now the tech support guys with their laptops? They can dig into Anything on your car.

Including the air bag module that is the black box for your car. Insurance companies would LOVE to have this info, but they are not allowed, in most circumstances.
Whatcha working on? What's the issue with it? Lot of sharp techs here that might be able to solve the actual issue.
 

OCMerrill

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Funny...

I just did my 04 330ci the other day, and I don't remember seeing them even use the sniffer!

I sold it to CarMax just to get rid of it.

Technically..........

The seller is responsible for having the car smogged, and I don't want to have Any issues.
Sold the Bummer? Someone is saving for a SXS.....;)
 

Markus

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That's not what this is. I'm just a regular dad trying not to get bent over by the dealer for technical bullshit on my daughter's daily driver. For once in my life, I'm saying fucc it; tired of getting shafted for playing by the rules.

Sans the coke stuff... :D 👍
You need a mechanic, not a smog certificate.
 

dribble

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I have heard they are cracking down on the OBD 2 plug ins. Cars are being tuned to remove the codes to pass the plug in and techs look the other way for the visual. Headers, no cats etc. I know a few who have done this and each of them upon their reg/smog renewals were flagged to go to a Referee station after years of passing.

The other story I heard is CARB or BAR is randomly flagging VIN #'s of cars that are commonly modified such as Mustangs, Camaro's etc. Upon their reg renewals they are flagged to the Ref. Any truth to this or was the SMOG guy flagged and in turn the customers have been sent to the Ref?

Not sure. I have not heard this but it seems unlikely. If you take all of the Mustang, Camaros, Nissans etc that would overwhelm the system.
 

dezertrider

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The smog guy across from my old shop got caught doing numerous cars a day with just 1 car in the smog bay , he fled to Utah and the state ( Ca ) has yet to find him . The punishment was extensive.
If there is a smog station within 50 miles , NO
 

dribble

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Funny...

I just did my 04 330ci the other day, and I don't remember seeing them even use the sniffer!

I sold it to CarMax just to get rid of it.

Technically..........

They don’t sniff 2000 and newer. You don’t have to smog your car if you sell it to a dealer or sell it for the purpose of being dismantled. If your car is heavily modified and you sell it make sure you have in writing that the buyer is purchasing it to dismantle it. “As is”does not apply.

The seller is responsible for having the car smogged, and I don't want to have Any issues.
 

Yldboyz

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I have a guy, but the writing is on the wall now. It's like saying you're walking one a plane with something you shouldn't be. I'd rather not jeopardize the business.

I know Joe has a CA address you can use. 😁 My other address is in NM and I wont be there till the fall.
 

rivermobster

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@dribble

I know. Had my smog license working at the dealership forever.

I was going to sell it private party, but changed my mind at the last minute.

There were just Way too many hidden things wrong with it, that would eventually come to light.

Super fun car. Served it's purpose for me. 👍🏼
 

dribble

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One more true story. We had a smog station owner we caught on video clean piping back in the day. Brought a case to the DA and felony charges were filed. Shortly thereafter he was accused of child molestation and before they could file charges on that, he fled back to what ever shithole middle east country he came from. Fifteen years later he shows back up in this country, because (at the time) the statute of limitations on the sex crimes had expired. The DA called us and asked if we still had the original case and evidence on the illegal smogs. I spent seven hours going through archived cases we had in a warehouse and found it. I hand delivered it to the DA and they issued a warrant and arrested and prosecuted the fuckhead for the felonies related to the smogs and threw his ass in jail. Sometimes justice works in mysterious ways.
 

Markus

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1. Smog test is not a one-off thing
2. Check if you can buy the diagnostic software for the car on eBay to make the code go away and troubleshoot
3. Find a good mechanic
 

Kachina26

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Here's the deal...

We had a replacement motor installed and ended up with a CEL, But in fairness, we went into the motor shop with a CEL, but neither I, nor the engine shop, pulled the codes before the motor was swapped because the ticking rockers had obviously failed. After the install, motor guys say we can't clear the code, it needs to be done by the dealer.

P1457 evap cannister leak code, and an O2 sensor code (O2 - fair enough/routine). I research the crap out of the P1457 code and read about guys trying to chase it down,, most conclude dealers are not equipped to diagnose/fix it and simply try throwing part after part at it. It could be a leak, the evap canister itself, or anything and everything between the gas cap and the evap canister, including hoses in the engine compartment, purge valve etc. Some guys give up, but they are in states where smog is not an issue. Other guys report the light goes away, but comes back several years later, only to go away again.

Dealer says $600 to diagnose the code but not repair and we need the vehicle for 3-weeks. WTF

This is a daily driver and I'm not selling it. Simply trying to continue driving it. I literally have 1-day per week to run errands/maintain stuff/rest.

Spend $2-$3K+ chasing down a bs problem, or cut to the chase?

That's where I'm at.
It's a leak in the EVAP system. It's not super hard to diagnose, but depending on the leak, can be time consuming. We had a smoke deal where you would charge the system with "smoke" and just look for it. We also had a super sensitive microphone that you would listen for the leak. I've been out of the business for 17 years, but I don't think this is something the dealer can't clear. BUT, it's one of the 'flags' that needs to set before it can pass an emissions test. That means that the system has to pass a drive cycle. I've seen it be something as simple as an old gas cap. Hell, the locking gas caps always seemed to cause issues. With it being an engine swap, could be a misrouted vacuum line, a missing or faulty solenoid/connector or any other number of random things. If I were at a dealer still, I'd quote an hour to start with the caveat that more time might be needed. At $100 an hour or whatever the rate is today, that would seem expensive if I were a customer and the car was running just fine, so I get your frustration. Maybe someone can point you toward an honest well equipped shop.
 
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LargeOrangeFont

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One more true story. We had a smog station owner we caught on video clean piping back in the day. Brought a case to the DA and felony charges were filed. Shortly thereafter he was accused of child molestation and before they could file charges on that, he fled back to what ever shithole middle east country he came from. Fifteen years later he shows back up in this country, because (at the time) the statute of limitations on the sex crimes had expired. The DA called us and asked if we still had the original case and evidence on the illegal smogs. I spent seven hours going through archived cases we had in a warehouse and found it. I hand delivered it to the DA and they issued a warrant and arrested and prosecuted the fuckhead for the felonies related to the smogs and threw his ass in jail. Sometimes justice works in mysterious ways.

Sex crime in CA - oh sorry can’t prosecute statute of limitations is up.

Murder or smog crimes in CA - no statues at all 🤣
 

rivermobster

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Here's the deal...

We had a replacement motor installed and ended up with a CEL, But in fairness, we went into the motor shop with a CEL, but neither I, nor the engine shop, pulled the codes before the motor was swapped because the ticking rockers had obviously failed. After the install, motor guys say we can't clear the code, it needs to be done by the dealer.

P1457 evap cannister leak code, and an O2 sensor code (O2 - fair enough/routine). I research the crap out of the P1457 code and read about guys trying to chase it down,, most conclude dealers are not equipped to diagnose/fix it and simply try throwing part after part at it. It could be a leak, the evap canister itself, or anything and everything between the gas cap and the evap canister, including hoses in the engine compartment, purge valve etc. Some guys give up, but they are in states where smog is not an issue. Other guys report the light goes away, but comes back several years later, only to go away again.

Dealer says $600 to diagnose the code but not repair and we need the vehicle for 3-weeks. WTF

This is a daily driver and I'm not selling it. Simply trying to continue driving it. I literally have 1-day per week to run errands/maintain stuff/rest.

Spend $2-$3K+ chasing down a bs problem, or cut to the chase?

That's where I'm at.

You know where to find me. Bring it by when you get a chance. Lemme see what I can do.
 
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