Don’t buy a diesel…

[ka0tyk]

Long story short we ended up with a diesel Range Rover sport for the wife years ago. About 3 years ago we had an issue where we got a display on the screen that said there was “incorrect diesel exhaust fluid” and that it wouldn’t let the car start after like 200 miles. We hit up the dealer and eventually it was dropped off for warranty. In the end they replaced the entire exhaust system, pcm, etc. It took months. Whatever not my problem and paid for by warranty. Then a few years later of course it was like 5000 out of warranty it happened again. So I started googling and ended up just fixing it myself. None of that “warranty work” was needed in the first place. It’s 100% software and the pcm.

So we get the error…

Then we break out the ol bidirectional scanner. We force a DPF regen cycle. This requires engine temp and a certain mph. Basically I toss it into 5th gear and cruise at 60mph at 2000+ rpm’s for like 15 minutes. It sprays more fuel to increase temps and burns all the soot out of the particulate filter. I actually started it read 12 g/L.

As you drive it gets lower…

And eventually the lowest it would go is .6. At that point I use my scan tool to do a “DPF replacement” zeroing out the cycles etc and starting back at 0. Then I have it reset the cluster and poof. Everything works again.

This is after doing a dpf injector flush, spray pattern test, etc to verify the injector and pump and hoses aren’t filled with def crap and crystals. Def is NASTY stuff.

So yeah. DEF sucks. The DPF systems suck. Everything about diesel and being “clean” sucks. And worse… the dealers don’t want to bother with it because it sucks and they just replace it all. I know there’s some schmuck out there that’s paid the $7000 for a new dpf filter because after 200 miles it’s full and clogged and won’t let the car start.

Never again. People always rag on my 8.1l gas truck “omg it gets such bad gas mileage” yeah but I don’t have to deal with ANY of this nonsense. And worse if you live in a state that doesn’t have any checks for any of this garbage you still can’t remove it because federally tampering with it is illegal and no store or shop is going to get caught doing the work.

 

[shintoooo]

Can you lemon law it?

 

[77charger]

Emissions kills diesels these days makes them unreliable is what I read. I known die hard diesel guys from gm 6.2 era who swore by them through the years are back to gassers for work trucks and older diesel for their tow rig.

But these days your typical 3/4 ton gasser will run more miles than any new diesel dreams about. But will use a lot more fuel

 

[Racey]

All of this overly complex diesel emissions bullshit has ruined what was the most efficient and longest life motors.

It's a hodge podge of crap that is constantly on the ragged edge of working properly

 

[CLdrinker]

I will take my 14mpg gas guzzler thanks

 

[evantwheeler]

Long story short we ended up with a diesel Range Rover sport for the wife years ago. About 3 years ago we had an issue where we got a display on the screen that said there was “incorrect diesel exhaust fluid” and that it wouldn’t let the car start after like 200 miles. We hit up the dealer and eventually it was dropped off for warranty. In the end they replaced the entire exhaust system, pcm, etc. It took months. Whatever not my problem and paid for by warranty. Then a few years later of course it was like 5000 out of warranty it happened again. So I started googling and ended up just fixing it myself. None of that “warranty work” was needed in the first place. It’s 100% software and the pcm.

So we get the error…

View attachment 1339107

Then we break out the ol bidirectional scanner. We force a DPF regen cycle. This requires engine temp and a certain mph. Basically I toss it into 5th gear and cruise at 60mph at 2000+ rpm’s for like 15 minutes. It sprays def fluid constantly and burns all the soot out of the particulate filter. I actually started it read 12 g/L.

View attachment 1339109

As you drive it gets lower…


View attachment 1339110

And eventually the lowest it would go is .6. At that point I use my scan tool to do a “DPF replacement” zeroing out the cycles etc and starting back at 0. Then I have it reset the cluster and poof. Everything works again.

View attachment 1339114

This is after doing a dpf injector flush, spray pattern test, etc to verify the injector and pump and hoses aren’t filled with def crap and crystals. Def is NASTY stuff.

So yeah. DEF sucks. The DPF systems suck. Everything about diesel and being “clean” sucks. And worse… the dealers don’t want to bother with it because it sucks and they just replace it all. I know there’s some schmuck out there that’s paid the $7000 for a new dpf filter because after 200 miles it’s full and clogged and won’t let the car start.

Never again. People always rag on my 8.1l gas truck “omg it gets such bad gas mileage” yeah but I don’t have to deal with ANY of this nonsense. And worse if you live in a state that doesn’t have any checks for any of this garbage you still can’t remove it because federally tampering with it is illegal and no store or shop is going to get caught doing the work.

Does that scanner do anything for you on your 8.1 that HP Tuners cannot do? I am having some issues after a front and rear diff gear change and it's hard to tell if its related or not. HP Tuners doesn't really do anything for me diagnostic wise, just lists DTC's if they show up. I did catch a huge list of DTC's once after the engine died, but after starting up, and clearing the codes, they all went away. Pretty sure its a crank sensor thats causing my intermittent issues, but I'm also getting a speed sensor code (ABS and Parking Brake light come on after 5 mins of driving) that I'd like to diagnose without throwing parts at the truck, and HP Tuners is no help on that front. If that is a useful tool for the GM truck, what model is it?

 

[mattyc]

Long story short we ended up with a diesel Range Rover sport for the wife years ago. About 3 years ago we had an issue where we got a display on the screen that said there was “incorrect diesel exhaust fluid” and that it wouldn’t let the car start after like 200 miles. We hit up the dealer and eventually it was dropped off for warranty. In the end they replaced the entire exhaust system, pcm, etc. It took months. Whatever not my problem and paid for by warranty. Then a few years later of course it was like 5000 out of warranty it happened again. So I started googling and ended up just fixing it myself. None of that “warranty work” was needed in the first place. It’s 100% software and the pcm.

So we get the error…

View attachment 1339107

Then we break out the ol bidirectional scanner. We force a DPF regen cycle. This requires engine temp and a certain mph. Basically I toss it into 5th gear and cruise at 60mph at 2000+ rpm’s for like 15 minutes. It sprays def fluid constantly and burns all the soot out of the particulate filter. I actually started it read 12 g/L.

View attachment 1339109

As you drive it gets lower…


View attachment 1339110

And eventually the lowest it would go is .6. At that point I use my scan tool to do a “DPF replacement” zeroing out the cycles etc and starting back at 0. Then I have it reset the cluster and poof. Everything works again.

View attachment 1339114

This is after doing a dpf injector flush, spray pattern test, etc to verify the injector and pump and hoses aren’t filled with def crap and crystals. Def is NASTY stuff.

So yeah. DEF sucks. The DPF systems suck. Everything about diesel and being “clean” sucks. And worse… the dealers don’t want to bother with it because it sucks and they just replace it all. I know there’s some schmuck out there that’s paid the $7000 for a new dpf filter because after 200 miles it’s full and clogged and won’t let the car start.

Never again. People always rag on my 8.1l gas truck “omg it gets such bad gas mileage” yeah but I don’t have to deal with ANY of this nonsense. And worse if you live in a state that doesn’t have any checks for any of this garbage you still can’t remove it because federally tampering with it is illegal and no store or shop is going to get caught doing the work.

Glad you got it sorted out for now. Seems there are always more problems to come. I wouldnt want to own one. Just wanted to point out, dpf and def are two separate emission systems. Dpf traps particulates and goes through regeneration to incinerate the mass. Def is sprayed into the scr and is used to reduce nox emissions. Both are integrated into the exhaust but serve different purposes

 

[Ace in the Hole]

We had a ton of problems with the early DEF system on the X5 we had. Multiple in warranty repairs, then major out of warranty. Then an "off road kit" and eventual sale. I would NEVER own a small vehicle diesel again...just not worth it. The PHEV have similar power and mileage and far less issues from my experience.

 

[ka0tyk]

Does that scanner do anything for you on your 8.1 that HP Tuners cannot do? I am having some issues after a front and rear diff gear change and it's hard to tell if its related or not. HP Tuners doesn't really do anything for me diagnostic wise, just lists DTC's if they show up. I did catch a huge list of DTC's once after the engine died, but after starting up, and clearing the codes, they all went away. Pretty sure its a crank sensor thats causing my intermittent issues, but I'm also getting a speed sensor code (ABS and Parking Brake light come on after 5 mins of driving) that I'd like to diagnose without throwing parts at the truck, and HP Tuners is no help on that front. If that is a useful tool for the GM truck, what model is it?

on a simple car like my 01... no. not really. its a dumb car. theres a solenoid, or a relay, and then theres a downstream sensor that verifies that something changed. but newer cars, its 100% required. everything is canbus, everything has a module and a system around it and they all talk to each other. i can make my mercedes air suspension bounce and test every individual airbag moving side to side which verifies the compressor, the valves, the bag itself, etc are all working. its a priceless tool to have to diagnose any modern car. but hp tuners allows me to change fuel curves, timing, delete systems and checks. the bidirectional scanner just lets me access the systems and use them, not tune them in any way or change a value.

 

[Willie B]

Emissions kills diesels these days makes them unreliable is what I read. I known die hard diesel guys from gm 6.2 era who swore by them through the years are back to gassers for work trucks and older diesel for their tow rig.

But these days your typical 3/4 ton gasser will run more miles than any new diesel dreams about. But will use a lot more fuel

… I will take my 12 .valve Ram over any of this new diesel shit any day..,

 

[traquer]

I got two things out of this thread: 1) don't get a newer diesel 2) that's a badass tool, and you know how to use it! I thought I was hot shit reprogramming my seat belt chime with IMPA one time lol

 

[Romans9]

Emulator.

Your welcome.

 

[EPL]

First problem was you bought a Land Rover !!

 

[LazyLavey]

Agree... I love my Canyon diesel.. Supposed to be the last truck I buy in my lifetime... But I'm actually sort of reluctant to take it on a road trip in fear of those types of way too common issues.....

 

[dribble]

Funny, I've never had a DEF problem on my 07 Dodge Ram 5.9.

 

[Brokeboatin221]

None on my 06 either

 

[Dunerking]

We had a ton of problems with the early DEF system on the X5 we had. Multiple in warranty repairs, then major out of warranty. Then an "off road kit" and eventual sale. I would NEVER own a small vehicle diesel again...just not worth it. The PHEV have similar power and mileage and far less issues from my experience.

We had a 13 Porsche Cayenne diesel and loved it but the DEF,DPF,and other related emissions equipment had me concerned for the long term ownership. Ultimately sold it and now the wife drives a 23 Lexus NX450H+ PHEV. Very happy with it,only concern is all of the tech that these new vehicles have just seems a little overkill. I prefer my 05 Dodge CTD and shitbox 04 Jetta TDI. Both may have some sort of mechanical parts falling off issues.

 

[Dunerking]

None on my 06 either

Same for our 05.

 

[76sanger]

05 works like a charm!

 

[mash on it]

NH220, T590 turbo, Pre emissions. 335 button. Mfg'd May of '58.

Dan'l

 

[napanutt]

Try owning a commercial diesel vehicle.
My part time gig here in NH is working with the service department of a Freightliner dealership.
The number of trucks, new, used, old, whatever that are in for check engine lights is unbelievable. Almost all are emission related.
I thought that bull shit was only CA.
Evidently it’s feds.

 

[OCMerrill]

Funny, I've never had a DEF problem on my 07 Dodge Ram 5.9.

None on my 06 either

Same for our 05.

My son's 04 is asking what Def is? My 2018 is Can Buss and cant even tell my son's 04 about the super hot chick in the Porsche that wanted a ride in his 04.

 

[Willie B]

My son's 04 is asking what Def is? My 2018 is Can Buss and cant even tell my son's 04 about the super hot chick in the Porsche that wanted a ride in his 04.

… I fully understand … Porsche Cayenne chick… wanted a ride in my 12 valve…Dunno???… and she has a Cayanne and a Panamera…

 

[bilz]

5.7 Tundra all day!

 

[HCP3]

When were Range Rovers ever reliable?

On a side mote they seem to be the most LAM mall crawlers just behind G Wagons.

 

[DLC]

My 07 classic runs like a Champ!

just broken in about 3 or months ago…. Hit 200,000 miles !

 

[Javajoe]

Just got that notice on my dash last month when I took my truck to ORW. It said at 90 miles it won’t go over 64 mph because of bad def. Never happened again. I never drive it but….heading Havasu tomorrow so I took it to work in Indio today for a test run and all is good

 

[PlanB]

DEF issues was the main reason we went gas instead of diesel on the new Burb. I don’t want to be stuck in the desert because of some stupid issue or be driving in limp mode. My 04 DMax still runs great. Probably be the last diesel I own.

 

[chvynhra]

I was thinking about a diesel f250, guess I'll stick with my ecoboost and hope it doesn't go eco boom.

 

[havasu5150]

Try owning a commercial diesel vehicle.
My part time gig here in NH is working with the service department of a Freightliner dealership.
The number of trucks, new, used, old, whatever that are in for check engine lights is unbelievable. Almost all are emission related.
I thought that bull shit was only CA.
Evidently it’s feds.

I was in the LTL freight Business for 39 years. The last few years the biggest and most common issue we had with our fleet of Freightliner Cascadia's was the emission systems. Several times we had to replace what is known as "the one box" which was a 10k repair.

 

[foxfam312]

What is everybody's thoughts or opinions on GM's 6.6 liter gas motor? I' am thinking about ordering a new 3/4 ton GMC Denali, The most weight I will be towing will be about 8700 pounds, is the 6.6 gas motor ok?

 

[OCMerrill]

I say buy a Diesel, skip the Rover. If you have a Kaotyk on your side then your odds are better.

 

[OCMerrill]

… I fully understand … Porsche Cayenne chick… wanted a ride in my 12 valve…Dunno???… and she has a Cayanne and a Panamera…

None of that sounds like a 12v.

 

[wfowahoo]

Its a Range Rover and a diesel.

I have four diesels pre 2007, love em all no DEF. Favorite one is 05 excursion with a bulletproof 6.0 Its a joy to drive to river. The 7.3s will never wear out.

Let my daughter drive a 7.3 pick up in 2001 for high school,she and grand kids still have it.

 

[rmarion]

I'm trying not to JINX myself...

2015 F350
6.2 Gasser
250k

only batteries and tires so far

 

[Boat 405]

The first time I I have any issues with either of my diesels, they are getting full deleted

 

[lbhsbz]

The first time I I have any issues with either of my diesels, they are getting full deleted

Why not just buy a vehicle that's not a piece of shit?

 

[Boat 405]

Why not just buy a vehicle that's not a piece of shit?

It’s really not an issue for me. All my stuff has a warranty on it. I have other vehicles I can drive while its in the shop. With all the modern electronics and technology that’s in vehicles today stuff breaks. It is what it is. I refuse to get too excited about it.

 

[MPHSystems]

All of this overly complex diesel emissions bullshit has ruined what was the most efficient and longest life motors.

It's a hodge podge of crap that is constantly on the ragged edge of working properly

Well gee-wiz pops! The government must know what is doing.

I guess I’ll just get an electric!

 

[NicPaus]

What is everybody's thoughts or opinions on GM's 6.6 liter gas motor? I' am thinking about ordering a new 3/4 ton GMC Denali, The most weight I will be towing will be about 8700 pounds, is the 6.6 gas motor ok?

I have around 33k miles on mine. Majority river trips. It will tow 8700 no problem but nothing like a new diesel. I believe they are rated to tow 17k with the new 10 spd transmission. I have the 6 it's rated at 16k pounds. I didn't want a second diesel as I don't put enough miles on them. My 2015 Duramax work truck only has 18k miles.

It gets 15.7 mpg no traffic to the river not towing crew cab 4x4. I would buy another.

 

[BlowMe]

What is everybody's thoughts or opinions on GM's 6.6 liter gas motor? I' am thinking about ordering a new 3/4 ton GMC Denali, The most weight I will be towing will be about 8700 pounds, is the 6.6 gas motor ok?

@lake p.a.l.

 

[brgrcru]

06 gmc duramax
397k miles

Been in shop a few times
For oil changes

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

What is everybody's thoughts or opinions on GM's 6.6 liter gas motor? I' am thinking about ordering a new 3/4 ton GMC Denali, The most weight I will be towing will be about 8700 pounds, is the 6.6 gas motor ok?

Does the 6.6 have the lifter issues of the 6.2 and 5.3? Or did they finally fix all that in the 6.6?

 

[Angler]

Love my dumb truck, 06 F-350 6.0.

 

[ka0tyk]

When were Range Rovers ever reliable?

On a side mote they seem to be the most LAM mall crawlers just behind G Wagons.

Happy wife happy life. Before that we had an Infiniti with the vq 3.7 engine that won numerous awards for reliability. Whoops, should’ve never sold that car.

When we bought the rover there was actually a SVR on the lot. I had driven the truck so we went back to get the Infiniti to see what they’d offer on a trade in and by the time we got back the next morning it had sold. Was super sad…

 

[lbhsbz]

Happy wife happy life. Before that we had an Infiniti with the vq 3.7 engine that won numerous awards for reliability. Whoops, should’ve never sold that car.

When we bought the rover there was actually a SVR on the lot. I had driven the truck so we went back to get the Infiniti to see what they’d offer on a trade in and by the time we got back the next morning it had sold. Was super sad…

I warned you....If I had the mental capacity to dig up quotes from past threads....I would post them here...but I don't, evidently.

Get her something that says Porsche on it that burns gas if she wants a high roller car...and buy it new. I think they're the most reliable thing out there. If they made a pickup truck with cloth seats, I'd buy 2.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Does the 6.6 have the lifter issues of the 6.2 and 5.3? Or did they finally fix all that in the 6.6?

I haven't seen any with more than 120k so far. They seemed to have been pretty dialed in, haven't had one that needed more than service. The ones I'm seeing though are utility beds, and part time skid steer haulers. Not babied at all...actually beat on.

@ka0tyk , any chance the car was in freezing conditions a few days before the CES light popped? I've run into a few from flagstaff that had issues like this, though Freightliner's and NPR's. It seemed on these, the Def lines would freeze and thaw, I think causing the Def to maybe separate or form crystal chunks. First time it was a drain and flush, a couple regens and some prayer. After that, I tried turning up the Def injection pressure on the scanner while doing a regen...must have blown the crap out because I could clear the code for Def quality and it would be fine.

 

[Willie B]

None of that sounds like a 12v.

‘97 Dodge Ram xtra cab 4x4 Cummins 12 valve diesel…no smog required… that belongs to me… The two Porsches belong to Karen…

 

[Ladsm]

My 328d diesel BMW did that last year. Gave me 250 miles till it shutdown. BMW wanted $10K to fix. Since I only use it for off road closed track racing I was able to delete all the DEF and SCR and reprogram the ECU to not look for it. Went from 41 MPG to 44.7 MPG and lower motor temps. I will drive it till it is dead and then call pick a part to come get it.

 

[Loo Dog]

… I will take my 12 .valve Ram over any of this new diesel shit any day..,

Yep. The OP lost me at “Range Rover”.