Do flying/hovering objects inside an airplane effects its weight?

[whiteworks]

Example statement:

TRUE OR FALSE, PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR ANSWER?


Did you know that if you put a group of birds inside an airplane without them touching the floor or walls of the airplane, their total weight will constitute a weight on the airplane, even though they will not touch the body of the airplane, but the displacement caused by the birds in the air will generate a thrust force that causes the atoms and molecules of the air to collide with the floor of the airplane, knowing that the thrust force generated by the displacement is proportional to the weight of the birds, which means that the weight of the birds will affect the airplane even if they do not touch the body of the airplane

 

[500bbc]

Example statement:

TRUE OR FALSE, PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR ANSWER?


Did you know that if you put a group of birds inside an airplane without them touching the floor or walls of the airplane, their total weight will constitute a weight on the airplane, even though they will not touch the body of the airplane, but the displacement caused by the birds in the air will generate a thrust force that causes the atoms and molecules of the air to collide with the floor of the airplane, knowing that the thrust force generated by the displacement is proportional to the weight of the birds, which means that the weight of the birds will affect the airplane even if they do not touch the body of the airplane

View attachment 1459091

Even on a treadmill?

 

[JDKRXW]

True.
The reason is in the statement - "the displacement caused by the birds in the air will generate a thrust force" - which would be clearer if it said downwards thrust force' on the floor.

 

[rivrrts429]

Maybe the plane should try a different prop?

 

[Sharky]

If I fart on an airplane, will I be lighter and air plane heavier?

 

[coolchange]

Even on a treadmill?

Damn beat me to it.

 

[was thatguy]

True.
The reason is in the statement - "the displacement caused by the birds in the air will generate a thrust force" - which would be clearer if it said downwards thrust force' on the floor.

Which should translate to an increased measurable lift force on the wings, correct?
Would that not be the only true measure of added cargo weight, regardless of how that weight is added?
Asking as a non expert.

 

[whiteworks]

If I fart on an airplane, will I be lighter and air plane heavier?

If gas is lighter than air you would be heavier and the plane would be lighter?

 

[Sleek-Jet]

What if the airplane is traveling on a Parabolic flight path?

 

[JDKRXW]

If I fart on an airplane, will I be lighter and air plane heavier?

Depends if you're wearing Depends ... and if you're sure it's a fart and not a shart.

 

[lbhsbz]

What about a helium balloon with a small weight tied to it..suspended.

 

[Fastech382]

Birds aren't real anyways so this is all voided

 

[OCMerrill]

My Physics major son read the heading to the post and saw the birds. Said that they thrust air so they count never reading your actual verbiage.

Then he says keep your drink covered.

Then he went on to start in on the treadmill comment and I kicked him out of my office.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

I thought bird's wings worked like airplanes in that the shape creates lift on top of the wings. If that is the case then there is no down force.

 

[530RL]

Does an airplane weigh less when it is in the air? Of course not. Neither does a bird if flying inside the airplane.

 

[lbhsbz]

Birds aren't real anyways so this is all voided

Also, in the middle of the earth where the gravitational pull is greatest, will the birds cause the plane to weigh more than they would if it was flying near the edges?

 

[Javajoe]

Soooo….since airlines are always checking weight do they check the air displacement from all the fat passengers and factor that in?

 

[Gelcoater]

Then he went on to start in on the treadmill comment and I kicked him out of my office

You should find that thread and let him read it

 

[OCMerrill]

I thought bird's wings worked like airplanes in that the shape creates lift on top of the wings. If that is the case then there is no down force.

They have to flap their wings to maintain flight and unless the plane is filled with "Gaseous old folks". I think riding the updraft is out of the picture.

Its just a thought.

 

[Go-Fly]

Newton's first law of motion applies even inside an airplane. A flying bird inside an airplane adds no weight to the mass of the airplane. Think about throwing a baseball from one end to the other.

 

[evantwheeler]

Does an airplane weigh less when it is in the air? Of course not. Neither does a bird if flying inside the airplane.

This is intriguing. This is my take, and I'm probably wrong. Curious what the actual answer is. I think the answer comes down to how forces are transferred through different mediums.

The bird flying inside the volume of an airplane only adds its mass to that of the plane when it is resting on an object that is attached to the airframe. The forces keeping the bird in the air as it flies do not transfer linearly to the airframe because air is compressible. Maybe there are minuscule forces transferred through the air to the airframe, but I don't think it is 1:1. If the plane was completely full of water and you used a dolphin through the water instead of the bird through the air, regardless of where the dolphin was in that water, its mass would be added to the mass of the plane.

Does a bird exert a force on a tree branch before it lands on it?

 

[Orange Juice]

Example statement:

TRUE OR FALSE, PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR ANSWER?


Did you know that if you put a group of birds inside an airplane without them touching the floor or walls of the airplane, their total weight will constitute a weight on the airplane, even though they will not touch the body of the airplane, but the displacement caused by the birds in the air will generate a thrust force that causes the atoms and molecules of the air to collide with the floor of the airplane, knowing that the thrust force generated by the displacement is proportional to the weight of the birds, which means that the weight of the birds will affect the airplane even if they do not touch the body of the airplane

View attachment 1459091

Stop!



Thrust-Drag
Lift-Gravity.

 

[Go-Fly]

And if you do throw a baseball inside an airplane, it is going faster then the airplane. Doesn't matter if you throw it from back to front or front to back. All statements can be both true and false at the same time. The human mind has to use a point of reference to start from and that can change the answer. Anything in motion goes through changes that we still don't understand. Boat props high on the list, women still number one.

 

[FUN4ME]

Thoughts?

I think it shows that the mass stays the same, on the ground or in the air.

 

[evantwheeler]

Thoughts?

I think it shows that the mass stays the same, on the ground or in the air.

Wild. I was wrong.....

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Thoughts?

I think it shows that the mass stays the same, on the ground or in the air.

He is incorrect about the airplane. The shape of the wing creates a vacuum above the wing called lift. It does not push air down. There is a vortex created at the wing tips but that is not what makes the airplane stay in the air.

 

[MeCasa16]

There is a lot of inaccuracies in this thread. If you want the facts, you can subscribe to my professional only fans for $8/min.

 

[Echo Lodge]

AI gave this answer!

I find that fascinating! Yes, the total weight of the birds would indeed affect the airplane. When birds are flying, they push air downwards to stay aloft, creating a force equal to their weight. This force is transmitted to the air, which in turn exerts pressure on the floor of the airplane, resulting in the same overall effect as if the birds were standing on the floor.

So, even though the birds are not touching the airplane directly, the force they exert on the air inside the plane ultimately translates to the same effect on the airplane's weight. It's an interesting application of Newton's Third Law of Motion: for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Physics can sometimes be counterintuitive, but it never ceases to amaze!

 

[CANUCK007]

Is it wetter under water if you're there when it rains??

 

[Sleek-Jet]

He is incorrect about the airplane. The shape of the wing creates a vacuum above the wing called lift. It does not push air down. There is a vortex created at the wing tips but that is not what makes the airplane stay in the air.

Uh no, an airplane doesn't suck itself into the air... Hehe..

You can think of a wing as a pump, and the air spilling off the trailing edge after accelerating over the top of the wing is imparting a downward force, that combined with the higher pressure below the wing which creates in vertical lift, thank you Mr. Newton.

 

[Go-Fly]

Is it wetter under water if you're there when it rains??

That's called "more wetter".

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Uh no, an airplane doesn't suck itself into the air... Hehe..

You can think of a wing as a pump, and the air spilling off the trailing edge after accelerating over the top of the wing is imparting a downward force, that combined with the higher pressure below the wing which creates in vertical lift, thank you Mr. Newton.

Okay so I did some research and yes, the wing does exert some down force at the back of the wing. In the video however, the guy is stating that an airplane will exert a down force equal to its weight, straight down. I don't think this is true. If a Boeing 777 that weighs 600K pounds flies at 100 feet over a car will it subject a 600K pound force on the car? That doesn't seem right.

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

European swallows or ?

 

[McKay]

If gas is lighter than air you would be heavier and the plane would be lighter?

No

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Okay so I did some research and yes, the wing does exert some down force at the back of the wing. In the video however, the guy is stating that an airplane will exert a down force equal to its weight, straight down. I don't think this is true. If a Boeing 777 that weighs 600K pounds flies at 100 feet over a car will it subject a 600K pound force on the car? That doesn't seem right.

I didn't watch the video, but I'm also not enough of a physics teacher to explain it very well. LOL.

Somewhere I have a copy of a paper that does an excellent job of making the function of a wing make sense, I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Chili Palmer]

What if the plane was full of helium balloons, would the plane be lighter? Or better yet, if you pressurized the interior of the plane with helium or hydrogen would the plane be significantly lighter and want to lift sooner off the runway?

 

[Eliminator21vdrive]

Thoughts?

I think it shows that the mass stays the same, on the ground or in the air.

He is a homo.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

I didn't watch the video, but I'm also not enough of a physics teacher to explain it very well. LOL.

Somewhere I have a copy of a paper that does an excellent job of making the function of a wing make sense, I'll see if I can find it.

Yeah, I just remember being taught that in school. The shape of the wing creates lift.