Diesel operated pump question

[Howardflat]

I work for the water and sewer department in Boulder City. Do any of you guys have any opinion on which new Tier 4 diesel engines will actually last with this smog shit. We have a new JCB (I know its crap) that will not stay working for us in a emergency situation. We have had non stop issues with this engine and its damn near brand new.

Deutz?
John Deere?
Perkins?

 

[Mack]

straight def system best with no exhaust reuse, any with reused exhaust gas is death sentence in short time

 

[rivrrts429]

I work for the water and sewer department in Boulder City. Do any of you guys have any opinion on which new Tier 4 diesel engines will actually last with this smog shit. We have a new JCB (I know its crap) that will not stay working for us in a emergency situation. We have had non stop issues with this engine and its damn near brand new.

Deutz?
John Deere?
Perkins?

The JCB’s are a pain in the ass and clunky machines. We’ve had good luck with the JLG models. They cost a more than JCB’s for obvious reasons but have been dependable.

My suggestion is to become best friends with your local JCB representative to help identify why you’re having so many failures and to be sure it’s not operator issues either. I can’t recall if the JCB’s have a regen setting but if the operator is bypassing it when it wants to regen then it’s going to fail if he doesn’t let it regen soon after.

EDIT: Should’ve read the title better. Didn’t realize this is a pump and not a fork. Same still applies. Many of the motors overlap between all manufacturing models.

 

[Dalton]

Perkins makes some great generator engines.

Deutz I am intrigued by, I have no experience with them, I think they're air cooled, and I've wanted to give them a try for a few different projects.

John Deere makes some solid engines, never dealt with one that had smog equipment though.

 

[Romans9]

You need a Japanese based machine if you want reliability.

JCB = Junk Cocksucking Backhoe

 

[Racey]

Perkins makes some great generator engines.

Deutz I am intrigued by, I have no experience with them, I think they're air cooled, and I've wanted to give them a try for a few different projects.

John Deere makes some solid engines, never dealt with one that had smog equipment though.

The deutz are kinda air cooled, but really more like a Porsche, they are oil cooled mainly. They hold a shitload of oil and have a big heat exchanger. Very reliable from what i understand.... Now the smog shit, that is a different story... Almost all the reliability issues with all modern diesels are smog control related, not mechanical issues

 

[Romans9]

The deutz are kinda air cooled, but really more like a Porsche, they are oil cooled mainly. They hold a shitload of oil and have a big heat exchanger. Very reliable from what i understand.... Now the smog shit, that is a different story... Almost all the reliability issues with all modern diesels are smog control related, not mechanical issues

Many modern Deutz are water cooled. Their DEF/SCR systems are just as bad as everyone else.
They always seem to have strange issues. They use undersized fasteners in many of their components. I just changed a fan drive on one and the fan was mounted with 4 6mm bolts. It’s a 2021 model L4.
About 2 months ago I changed a starter ring gear on it.
There was one starter in the United States at one dealership.

Isuzu
Yanmar
Kubota

These are the most reliable in my experience.


@Howardflat What type of machine are you looking for?

 

[Romans9]

@Howardflat

I see water pump.

Isuzu or Cat/Perkins

I include Cat because of the service and parts availability.

 

[Mack]

You might look up regulation some government entities are exempted from smog rules that’s why some newer surplus equipment must go to other government agencies or be destroyed only us common folks are required to follow the rules

 

[Howardflat]

You might look up regulation some government entities are exempted from smog rules that’s why some newer surplus equipment must go to other government agencies or be destroyed only us common folks are required to follow the rules

We tried and according to my higher ups we don't fall into that category. So we are stuck with a emissions unit. Which is mind boggling to me, when we need this thing to pump shit, we need it right now and to stay running.

 

[Runs2rch]

We tried and according to my higher ups we don't fall into that category. So we are stuck with a emissions unit. Which is mind boggling to me, when we need this thing to pump shit, we need it right now and to stay running.

Turn up the water psi while your at it hahaha

 

[Bajastu]

I worked at a major pump manufacturer and the best engines for pumps are the John Deere and CATs depending on the HP and torque curves needed to operate within the required pumping curve. I used these manufacturers on 4” to 18” pumps at Godwin Pumps. No load on the pump is just like the other thread on RDP with the generator.

Unfortunately, all pumps these days are EPA compliant, especially at a water District.

I was unaware of a manufacture using a JCB engine to power a pump. Who is the pump manufacture?

JCB – Junk Coming from Britin

 

[TPC]

Ya want DEF otherwise the timing is retarded and ya have exhaust gas recirculation, both suck deluxe in all the applications I worked on.

 

[Romans9]

I worked at a major pump manufacturer and the best engines for pumps are the John Deere and CATs depending on the HP and torque curves needed to operate within the required pumping curve. I used these manufacturers on 4” to 18” pumps at Godwin Pumps. No load on the pump is just like the other thread on RDP with the generator.

Unfortunately, all pumps these days are EPA compliant, especially at a water District.

I was unaware of a manufacture using a JCB engine to power a pump. Who is the pump manufacture?

JCB – Junk Coming from Britin

John Deere you say……..

Working on one today.

 

[QC22]

Ya want DEF otherwise the timing is retarded and ya have exhaust gas recirculation, both suck deluxe in all the applications I worked on.

Somebody knows what they're talking about.... EGR is not as bad as most fear, but DEF is actually a good thing if Low NOx is required.

To the OP: What horsepower? I'm guessing less than 100 from the options you posted.

 

[Howardflat]

I worked at a major pump manufacturer and the best engines for pumps are the John Deere and CATs depending on the HP and torque curves needed to operate within the required pumping curve. I used these manufacturers on 4” to 18” pumps at Godwin Pumps. No load on the pump is just like the other thread on RDP with the generator.

Unfortunately, all pumps these days are EPA compliant, especially at a water District.

I was unaware of a manufacture using a JCB engine to power a pump. Who is the pump manufacture?

JCB – Junk Coming from Britin

Funny you ask. The JCB is on a Godwin.

 

[Howardflat]

Somebody knows what they're talking about.... EGR is not as bad as most fear, but DEF is actually a good thing if Low NOx is required.

To the OP: What horsepower? I'm guessing less than 100 from the options you posted.

HP range is right around 150 to 185 is what I'm seeing on our quotes.

 

[Romans9]

Funny you ask. The JCB is on a Godwin.

Godwin pumps are the best my opinion.

I have seen the JCB engines on them and the after treatment package is bigger than the engine its self

 

[Rvrluvr]

What is breaking? What a lot of people dont realize is todays fuel is JUNK. I have more fuel related problems with my epa engines then the emissions failing. The fuel is making them fail. Just my personal experience in trucking. I run an additive….primrose 5007, it aint cheap but my problems have all but disappeared.

 

[Howardflat]

What is breaking? What a lot of people dont realize is todays fuel is JUNK. I have more fuel related problems with my epa engines then the emissions failing. The fuel is making them fail. Just my personal experience in trucking. I run an additive….primrose 5007, it aint cheap but my problems have all but disappeared.

Well, we use this unit to bypass our lift stations. Either for emergency or for maintenance. When we hook up the unit, it will start and run fine for about 30 min and then with no warning or anything just shut down and say "aftertreatment error". The JCB mechanic replaced the def head after some digging. worked fine for a couple days. Parked it for a month or two. Go to use it again and the same thing happened.

 

[Howardflat]

Godwin pumps are the best my opinion.

I have seen the JCB engines on them and the after treatment package is bigger than the engine its self

The pump itself is fine. Its the shitty diesel attached to it.

 

[Bajastu]

Funny you ask. The JCB is on a Godwin.

That's crazy. Godwin is historically a John Deere or CAT engine unit. I wonder if it was some sort of bastard unit made during COVID when industrial engines were next to imposable to get. From the HP level, I'd asume that you have a CDM250 - 10" pump.

Godwin makes the best pumps but the JCB engine just baffles me.

 

[Bajastu]

Well, we use this unit to bypass our lift stations. Either for emergency or for maintenance. When we hook up the unit, it will start and run fine for about 30 min and then with no warning or anything just shut down and say "aftertreatment error". The JCB mechanic replaced the def head after some digging. worked fine for a couple days. Parked it for a month or two. Go to use it again and the same thing happened.

DEF, EGR, DPF, and SER is the stuff that keeps me up at night. DEF is not good to just sit in the tanks for months on end while it's not in use (DEF quality, pumps, level sensors, dosing nozzle, headers), EGR just recycles waste, (Cummins has gone away from this), and DPF's & SER's get clogged or shut off.

Don’t get me started on Bio and renewable diesel.

Emissions is what keeps our clients from being productive and my techs busy.

In a controlled environment with active use, these systems can work. But once they get a different operator, production cycle, or they sit, it's a whole other ball game.

 

[Howardflat]

That's crazy. Godwin is historically a John Deere or CAT engine unit. I wonder if it was some sort of bastard unit made during COVID when industrial engines were next to imposable to get. From the HP level, I'd asume that you have a CDM250 - 10" pump.

Godwin makes the best pumps but the JCB engine just baffles me.

Its a HL100M. High head low flow.

 

[Howardflat]

DEF, EGR, DPF, and SER is the stuff that keeps me up at night. DEF is not good to just sit in the tanks for months on end while it's not in use (DEF quality, pumps, level sensors, dosing nozzle, headers), EGR just recycles waste, (Cummins has gone away from this), and DPF's & SER's get clogged or shut off.

Don’t get me started on Bio and renewable diesel.

Emissions is what keeps our clients from being productive and my techs busy.

In a controlled environment with active use, these systems can work. But once they get a different operator, production cycle, or they sit, it's a whole other ball game.

That's our dilemma. This unit doesn't get used all that often. Like I said its an emergency or maintenance unit. We used to run it every couple weeks but we were told that does nothing for us because the engine doesn't get up to temp with no load and wont dose def. We are prepared to buy a new unit and sell this one if we can get one we know we can count on. Nothing worse when a lift station goes down and our only in house pump cannot be counted on.

 

[Bajastu]

Its a HL100M. High head low flow.

The high head would explaine the HP.

 

[Bajastu]

That's our dilemma. This unit doesn't get used all that often. Like I said its an emergency or maintenance unit. We used to run it every couple weeks but we were told that does nothing for us because the engine doesn't get up to temp with no load and wont dose def. We are prepared to buy a new unit and sell this one if we can get one we know we can count on. Nothing worse when a lift station goes down and our only in house pump cannot be counted on.

I’m sure that the department spec’d the pump for maximum flow but while the pump is bypassing the lift station, it never sees the GPM on the high end of the chart. The low flow would explain the lack of engine load to produce a regen and intern go into limp mode.

1- I’d spec the pump for average flow, or if you have a wet well, let it surcharge by lifting the high-level float to create a load.

2- I think that the ultimate solution would be to install two smaller pumps, one to handle average flow and the second to handle overflow. This way you can consistently load the pump and have a back up for high flow.

 

[Dalton]

Many modern Deutz are water cooled. Their DEF/SCR systems are just as bad as everyone else.
They always seem to have strange issues. They use undersized fasteners in many of their components. I just changed a fan drive on one and the fan was mounted with 4 6mm bolts. It’s a 2021 model L4.
About 2 months ago I changed a starter ring gear on it.
There was one starter in the United States at one dealership.

Isuzu
Yanmar
Kubota

These are the most reliable in my experience.


@Howardflat What type of machine are you looking for?

Ive ran into a lot of main seal leaks on kubotas, even when following the maint instructions to a T. The engine does stay reliable otherwise though.

 

[Rvrluvr]

Well, we use this unit to bypass our lift stations. Either for emergency or for maintenance. When we hook up the unit, it will start and run fine for about 30 min and then with no warning or anything just shut down and say "aftertreatment error". The JCB mechanic replaced the def head after some digging. worked fine for a couple days. Parked it for a month or two. Go to use it again and the same thing happened.

Keep def tank full at all times when sitting. Def will crystalize and plug shit up fast. All the pumps and sensors are in the tank so if its full they ate submerged & wont crystalize.
Def doser nozzles are ez to clean. Pop them out and hit them with warm water on a rag. Little wire brush on the tip