Deisel Project

[HOSS]

Yes another one, sitting on my `75 Southwind (19) with no mill and wanting to do something different. I am thinking of taking the twin turbo 7.3 Ford (robbed out of `82 tubbed Cutlass project) and ramming it in the boat. This hull is made for moderate power so with a BIG OL impeller in a worked JC what am I looking at realiistically. If I`m clanging a 65 mph I`m ok. Any thoughts? I really am sic of polished aluminum, stainless and chrome. Salt is salt and rain is rain.

 

[jetboatperformance]

Yes another one, sitting on my `75 Southwind (19) with no mill and wanting to do something different. I am thinking of taking the twin turbo 7.3 Ford (robbed out of `82 tubbed Cutlass project) and ramming it in the boat. This hull is made for moderate power so with a BIG OL impeller in a worked JC what am I looking at realiistically. If I`m clanging a 65 mph I`m ok. Any thoughts? I really am sic of polished aluminum, stainless and chrome. Salt is salt and rain is rain.

Hoss I'm all about this , that Power stroke should be a beast with a Big Impy let me know how we can help ! Tom

 

[IRRebel]

I GOTTA see this! Sounds like an awesome and innovative idea!

Another thought, run it on veggie oil to keep the spotted owl huggers happy too!

Ray

 

[HOSS]

Hoss I'm all about this , that Power stroke should be a beast with a Big Impy let me know how we can help ! Tom

Thanks,,,I am going to get with you on this. I donn`t remember what impeller is in it now with what type of cut. Its a JC (GS did some work on it about a decade ago now, I`m getting old) and will probably send you the bowl to do a JG conversion on this JC if you want to. MPH isnt a concern as I really feel at 3000 rpm it`ll take the hull to 65 mph.

 

[HOSS]

I GOTTA see this! Sounds like an awesome and innovative idea!

Another thought, run it on veggie oil to keep the spotted owl huggers happy too!

Ray

Another thought, fuck dem spotted owl huggers,,,Louisiana is a shit hole!

 

[Flat Broke]

I think your going to be limited by the amount of water you'll be able to flow at redline. Even an AA impeller doesn't push that much water at 3000 rpm. One of the bigger American Turbine bowl/impellers would help, but honestly, you'd probably be better off with an axial flow pump at the RPM you'll be running.

 

[RiverDave]

I think your going to be limited by the amount of water you'll be able to flow at redline. Even an AA impeller doesn't push that much water at 3000 rpm. One of the bigger American Turbine bowl/impellers would help, but honestly, you'd probably be better off with an axial flow pump at the RPM you'll be running.

Interesting.. What about a "Z" drive to up the pump RPM? Or even a basic belt system to get the gearing up?

RD

 

[Outlaw]

Interesting.. What about a "Z" drive to up the pump RPM? Or even a basic belt system to get the gearing up?

RD

or a simple gear vendor overdrive unit

 

[Flat Broke]

Interesting.. What about a "Z" drive to up the pump RPM? Or even a basic belt system to get the gearing up?

RD

Totally doable. Just have to consider cost, parasitic loss, and added driveine length.

 

[Nordie]

me being the diesel fanatic i am i have also thought about this...my big concern with this is the fact that diesel motors are signifigantly heavier then a gasoline engine...the cranks are made from tool steel and the rods are very long...huge torque numbers though...my ld7 6.6 duramax motor weighs in just under 1200 pounds...and that motor has some aluminum on it...if i have not mistaken the 7.3 is an iron beast!!!just some food for thought...your motor will weigh twice as much as the hull...remember your tanks will half to be reconfigured and all the pumps it will take to run the injection system...if i could find a way to do this i would but to me this sounds like more work then it is worth...and the weight on the stringers would also concern me...if im not mistaken southwinds are primarily 1/4 stringer boats too!!!

 

[Tom Brown]

My head is with Nordie. A heavy ass diesel engine is not at home in the back of a small performance boat.

My heart is with the guys who think this is a cool project, though. It is.

To my mind, Diesel would be best suited to a larger, deeper boat with the engine either at the back or closer to mid ships with a jack shaft.

If you want small and fast, get a 16' Glastron CVX and a Merc 2.5l.

 

[BamBam]

I have thought it would be a great project too. There is a guy who runs the Parker 300 and some of the circle boat races with a Duramax in a V-Drive. It can be done. As said in earlier posts weight balance will play a big part in the equation, gearing another. I'm not a jet boat guy. I know in the v-drives you can overdrive the crap out of the propshaft and put a big pitch prop on too boot. Post pics and keep us informed. Good Luck with this project...

 

[HOSS]

Ive had 2 extra stingers added to make 5 total. This is not a full stringer boat. The added weight is of no concern to me. I am not looking at another propulsion system. It is what it is and the JC stays. Flow being flow and torque being torgue, why woul a larger impeller (much more aggressive) not work? I also have a `94 Rude 200 (looper) but the stringer setup scared me away from this. I am not looking for speed numbers out of this. I really feel that a super agressive wheel would do the trick at 2800-3000 rpm. Maybe 65 mph is stretching a bit but with a droop and diverter wouldnt my thrustline lower enough to unwet some of the weight?

 

[Flat Broke]

Ive had 2 extra stingers added to make 5 total. This is not a full stringer boat. The added weight is of no concern to me. I am not looking at another propulsion system. It is what it is and the JC stays. Flow being flow and torque being torgue, why woul a larger impeller (much more aggressive) not work? I also have a `94 Rude 200 (looper) but the stringer setup scared me away from this. I am not looking for speed numbers out of this. I really feel that a super agressive wheel would do the trick at 2800-3000 rpm. Maybe 65 mph is stretching a bit but with a droop and diverter wouldnt my thrustline lower enough to unwet some of the weight?

Hoss,

Simply put, I don't know you could put a big enough impeller in a JC bowl to keep the engine off the rev limiter. You might be able to machine the bowl for one of the larger American Turbine impellers, but you're still limited by the overall diameter of the C bowl. Mixed flow pumps rely on RPM to help build presure. The exponential nature of the impeller curves demonstrates this.

As far as unwetting the boat, it's a function of thrust vector, available thrust(power) and the weight of the boat. Two negatives you have in the equation are the fact that you may not be able to generate enough thrust (can't get enough RPM in a mixed flow pump with a diesel), and you're having to push lots of weight because of the heavier mill. I'm not saying that you won't be able to use traditional hardware to unwet the boat, but rather that the setup will be different, and require more thrust to lift the added weight. Just like with any jetboat, you're trading forward movement to generate lift. The only downside with your setup is that you have to generate more lift orriented thrust which steals more of your forward thrust. It may work out that you're better off fighting the drag losses of running wet than vectoring thrust in a direction that isn't productive from a forward movement standpoint.

Don't get me wrong; I think it'd be cool for you to do this, and I'm eager to see the results. I'm just pointing out some areas of concern that you might want to think about.

Chris

 

[HOSS]

Ok, so it seems everyone is on the same page with pump effeciency. So, to make this project work I would need a larger pump. Anyone familiar with different pumps and cost? I am not looking for huge K50S pumps like we installed in the Navy MK-V. What about a really aggressive loader for my JC? Obviously, the rpms produced by the PowerStroke won`t be top speed friendly. As long as its a fun ride with a few people. Maybe come down to a realistic top speed? This hull was made to get on plain with a moderate power mill. Hence the marine 460 Ford and a JC-A. I really believe the right impeller and loader would suffeciently plain the hull. The 7.3 ain`t that dang heavy.

 

[Flat Broke]

The only "bigger" pump I have personal experience with is an American Turbine SD312. It had the impeller cut (sorry I don't remember the size) and was in a 23' Dana with 600ish HP. At 3kish RPM that boat was probably running in the 40s. One thing I can say about that setup was the boat had ZERO bowrise when planing. It litterally just popped straight up out of the water and got on it's way. Didn't matter if you hammered it, or rolled into it. I would guess that with a BIG impeller in that pump, you could be closer to what you're looking for.

Before you go too much further, how much torque and HP are we talking about at redline? and at cruise? If you have that data, Ron at AT should be able to tell you if he's got a big enough impeller to absorb that AP at redline.

Chris

 

[HOSS]

me being the diesel fanatic i am i have also thought about this...my big concern with this is the fact that diesel motors are signifigantly heavier then a gasoline engine...the cranks are made from tool steel and the rods are very long...huge torque numbers though...my ld7 6.6 duramax motor weighs in just under 1200 pounds...and that motor has some aluminum on it...if i have not mistaken the 7.3 is an iron beast!!!just some food for thought...your motor will weigh twice as much as the hull...remember your tanks will half to be reconfigured and all the pumps it will take to run the injection system...if i could find a way to do this i would but to me this sounds like more work then it is worth...and the weight on the stringers would also concern me...if im not mistaken southwinds are primarily 1/4 stringer boats too!!!

My tanks reconfigurred? All the pumps? This is a 7.3 out of a `94 E250 with 8ok on the motor and trani.

 

[HOSS]

:thumbsupFlatbroke, I need to pop out the shoe as I have a leak around it. If I bought a performance shoe also would I still tax the JC too much and just be spinning water with no thrust? Should I put the motor in and then perhaps buy a much larger pump? Meaning, redo transom/bottom once I have the project actually working? I have also thought of cutting out the floor to redo stringer config to allow use of the trani as well. Or is the JC just going to be too small no matter what?

Thanks guys for any and all input.:thumbsup

 

[HOSS]

Hoss I'm all about this , that Power stroke should be a beast with a Big Impy let me know how we can help ! Tom

Tom, can u cut this JC and make a JG? Recommended shoe, loader and impeller? Is this even feasable? I value your opinion. I am determined to do this, but as the times dictate, within a budget.
What about gear dives for this?

Thanks, James
504-305-5167

 

[HOSS]

Gear reduction is no way, motor would sit way too high in boat.

 

[Crazyhippy]

Dry sump it and set it way low in the boat...

Or run 2, back 2 back and end up @ the crank centerline

 

[STV_Keith]

Having played diesel before, I'd suggest a 12v Cummins like out of the 94-98 Dodge Ram trucks. Find one from a 96-98 manual truck if you can - that was the best pump (215hp rated engine). Power available from 200-1000+hp. Will turn 4000rpm no problem. Do that with a Lenco OD .56 ratio, and you've got 6240rpm to the pump.

 

[RiverDave]

Gear reduction is no way, motor would sit way too high in boat.

I don't think you'd want reduction.. but none the less you can get a little inline tranny couldn't you? shouldn't affect the motor height. You'd just run your drive shaft real short, and probably rigid with no u-joints.

RD

 

[Flat Broke]

Don't worry about driveline length too much at this point in time. The added weight of the diesel is going to alter the CG quite a bit, so moving the mill forward might not be a problem at all.

Chris

 

[Tom Brown]

I see Hoss finally got the project together. Looks good. :thumbsup

[video=youtube;OnjlnEBtqv4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnjlnEBtqv4[/video]

 

[HOSS]

I don't think you'd want reduction.. but none the less you can get a little inline tranny couldn't you? shouldn't affect the motor height. You'd just run your drive shaft real short, and probably rigid with no u-joints.

RD

I can get my hands on a velvet drive for a BB chevy and have an adapter plate made.

 

[HOSS]

I see Hoss finally got the project together. Looks good. :thumbsup

YouTube - turbo diesel jet boat

Is that transom partially missing or rotten? :thumbsup

 

[Tom Brown]

It looks like it was chewed out by rats.

 

[HOSS]

UPDATE: phuc the deisel project.

 

[Nordie]

what happened????

 

[HOSS]

money

 

[Texasjetboats]

I just had my 2000 F 250 totaled by an illegal in Houston last friday. You can probably buy the remains. The 7.3 was running after the carnage. Being hit by one of these guys (no license, no insurance, no papers) is like being hit by a ghost. At least he had to leave by ambulance. We will be paying for his hospital stay.

 

[Nordie]

I just had my 2000 F 250 totaled by an illegal in Houston last friday. You can probably buy the remains. The 7.3 was running after the carnage. Being hit by one of these guys (no license, no insurance, no papers) is like being hit by a ghost. At least he had to leave by ambulance. We will be paying for his hospital stay.

sorry to hear about this...the 7.3 is the only nav star worth a damn...glad he is the one leaving in the ambulance...unfortunately we will pay for his medical bills, but thats another story....also hoss sorry to hear about the financial dealio, but honestly i think it would be a lost cause and i stand by that...enjoy the joys of a big block and the sound in paticular

 

[HOSS]

I am leaving the `81 Cutlass with the 7.3. Too much crap to buy/build to put it in the boat. :drnkfr

 

[ak49er]

...go for it.

And even though I'm not a tree hugger, but just a cheap-a$$, I have a vehicle that runs on Waste Vegetable Oil.

I have over 14,000 miles on WVO in a 1983 Mercedes Benz 300SD. I've tweaked the turbo, eliminated the EGR, raised the fuel controller output (all mechanical) and get good performance out of it for what it is, 120 hp on D2, and est. 100hp on WVO.

The only downside is the fleet of BBW girls that follow me when I pass the "Jenny Craig."

Any questions on WVO, just shoot.

 

[oldmxdog61u]

I have a 95 7.3 and seems like 3400 rpm should be no problem, but the weight seems like it would be a big issue as that turkey is heavy.

270,000 trouble free miles fwiw.

Now if my bbc in the tahiti would only go that long...
:skull