Dealerships gone crazy

[LargeOrangeFont]

I wish new crate motors were that cheap, buddy of mine spun a rod bearing in a 5.3 and ended up 12k for new crate long block with labor

Godzilla 7.3 in the crate is $8k to buy right now. Digging a bit can get it cheaper.

$12k to fix a rod bearing in a 5.3? Poor guy.

 

[SkyDirtWaterguy]

I just bought a new 2023 Corvette last week. $15k mark-up F/U fee on top of MSRP. No discounts. Incentives. Nothing. If you don’t want it others will be there in a couple days to take it. It’s insane. They would not budge on that or very little drop on MSRP . As I was sitting there doing the paperwork the other two they had on the showroom floor sold. They were getting a new Z06 in later in the week and told me they are getting $100k markup on those!!! WTF.

 

[SOCALCRICKETT]

Godzilla 7.3 in the crate is $8k to buy right now. Digging a bit can get it cheaper.

$12k to fix a rod bearing in a 5.3? Poor guy.

It's a shitty story too, guy would have oil changed religiously, problem was the shop used cheap oil. The motor had so much sludge that it plugged the dipstick tube, he would check the stick and read fine but in actuality oil was low and he was oil starving the bearings


This is what he found when he pulled the valve covers

 

[stokerwhore]

That looks like way more than cheap oil

 

[NicPaus]

Maybe they were not even changing the oil?

It was when I bought my 2016 2500 from dealer sponsor on here. He told me a 6.0 crate engine was $5500. Fuel pump on diesel 11k.

When i bought a 2018 5.3 from there. They told me to buy extended warranty. No mention of engine price.

Still have the 2016 6.0. And traded in the 5.3 for a 2021 6.6 gas.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I require heated leather seats, 3/4 ton, 4x4, rear back-up camera/alarm, and remote start. I like the option to take others with us, so a crew cab is also needed. Don't need massagers, and most vehicles come with damned good stock stereos these days. I don't need the lane change warning. I do need drive train upgrades like lower gears, locking diffs, high-output alternator, diesel engine. I don't need any platinum super-deluxe limited model. Just a comfortable, warm truck with a lot of towing capacity. They are still too much, especially with the self-destruct features mentioned above. Looking like close to 90 grand.

Self destruct features... LOL...

I like leather also for how easy it is to keep clean. The modern "vinyl" upholstery is nearly as nice, but it is tough to get seat heaters in those. And I'm like Angie, I need those seat heaters. As such, I'm solidly in the used market.

LOF is right, we are our own worst enemy.

 

[gqchris]

This thread comes at a perfect time for me. As some of you know, I worked as the Director of IT with Ken Grody years ago. It was different times for sure.

As I type this, my 2020 Explorer ST has shit its tranny. 7-6 gear change is banging hard, I have to drive it it manual mode right now to avoid that gear set. 50k miles. It just came out of shop for a month for an AWD module failure that was 1k out of my pocket not covered by the 60k powertrain warranty. I fought with Ford Care for three weeks, they could care less. Ford has a loyalty value of 0-100 and i am an 85 as a 20 year customer, previous employee yadda yadda. Didnt matter. They would not cover. Oh and no more rental cars, loaners etc.

Im over it. I am going to report back how they handle this. Should get interesting.

 

[JDKRXW]

The leather is what is killing you.

All that is like $60-$65k without leather.

Buy the cloth truck and spend $2k on recovering the seats with a leather kit and not have to chase old truck problems

Nope .... it's the emblem on the fenders and tailgate that's killing most people. Eg; XLT vs Platinum.
Customers are generally weak, so manufacturers and dealers prey on this vanity. You're absolutely right with the solution though. Seat recovering is the way to go.

 

[Taboma]

I just bought a new 2023 Corvette last week. $15k mark-up F/U fee on top of MSRP. No discounts. Incentives. Nothing. If you don’t want it others will be there in a couple days to take it. It’s insane. They would not budge on that or very little drop on MSRP . As I was sitting there doing the paperwork the other two they had on the showroom floor sold. They were getting a new Z06 in later in the week and told me they are getting $100k markup on those!!! WTF.

Congrats on the car, awesome choice But no fair complaining about their greed when you're part of the problem by encouraging it.
But I certainly get the reality that if you don't, somebody else will and the dealers are confident of that fact. I had to wait through 7 model years before I could buy my Raptor for that reason. Current MUs keep it's used value high.

 

[pronstar]

The dealer markup may now be priced in the MSRP.
I look at it now as a bigger negotiation point for a further discount.

2024 3500 HD GMC Dually allotments will be released soon.

I expect them to be MSRP’d at $2k more than we paid for the 2021 dually as the single rear wheel 3500HDs were.

We’ll see.

Remember the old saying if we could all throw our problems in a pile then pick out our new problems, we’d pick out the problems we threw in the pile.

Getting that way with trucks. What problems do you want to or are willing to deal with?
They all have their high prices and mulligans.

Took Ford 3 years to cure the Diesel particulate filter problem.
We’re hearing 3 years into the same issue the new GMC/Chevy particulate filter problems are going to be solved.

We’ll see about that too. It’s going to be expensive to find out.

Yeah I think we will very soon be heading back to the days of trucks with $16k discounts.

New vehicles ain’t selling very well right now, and likely won’t for the foreseeable future.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yeah I think we will very soon be heading back to the days of trucks with $16k discounts.

New vehicles ain’t selling very well right now, and likely won’t for the foreseeable future.

I agree, but now the MSRPs are $16k more.

 

[SkyDirtWaterguy]

Congrats on the car, awesome choice But no fair complaining about their greed when you're part of the problem by encouraging it.
But I certainly get the reality that if you don't, somebody else will and the dealers are confident of that fact. I had to wait through 7 model years before I could buy my Raptor for that reason. Current MUs keep it's used value high.

Yeah, I hear ya! I’m def part of the prob. And I don’t mean to sound like I’m complaining just stating what the dealership environment is like right now. I wanted it and the timing was right so I begrudgingly paid for it. It was my first Corvette purchase and was not used to paying for a new vehicle and getting gouged like that lol. It’s all about what people are willing to pay for. I can’t see paying 60k for a Speed car but some can. To each their own. F it! I love the car.

 

[pronstar]

I agree, but now the MSRPs are $16k more.

Yeah they’ll have to be even deeper now.
Average cost of new car today: $47k
Same, but in 2018: $36k

The “affordability” is non/existent for average buyers, and it’s compounded by rising rates and tightening credit.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yeah they’ll have to be even deeper now.
Average cost of new car today: $47k
Same, but in 2018: $36k

The “affordability” is non/existent for average buyers, and it’s compounded by rising rates and tightening credit.

The post above your says it all. People hate it but begrudgingly pay. This is fueled by post Covid YOLO.

I’m half ready to just go buy a Camaro myself, so I get it.

 

[Taboma]

Yeah, I hear ya! I’m def part of the prob. And I don’t mean to sound like I’m complaining just stating what the dealership environment is like right now. I wanted it and the timing was right so I begrudgingly paid for it. It was my first Corvette purchase and was not used to paying for a new vehicle and getting gouged like that lol. It’s all about what people are willing to pay for. I can’t see paying 60k for a Speed car but some can. To each their own. F it! I love the car.

I certainly don't fault your choice or your rationale ---- at my age, if I want to unwisely spend my kid's inheritance least I spoil them and suffer eternal "Boomer" blame, I need to act NOW, as time is not in my favor. But what really fries my nuts is not only padding that dealer's wallet, but then to add insult to injury, I have to give Newsome a bonus by paying a tax on that MU

I did want your vette --- until I had to admit the reality that having to roll out onto the pavement in order to exit wouldn't be flattering.
So now I need a 700hp truck, vroom, vroom ---- I truly believe my dear wife thinks I'm nuts, actually more nuts.

 

[Done-it-again]

Yeah I think we will very soon be heading back to the days of trucks with $16k discounts.

New vehicles ain’t selling very well right now, and likely won’t for the foreseeable future.

You better start letting dealers know that. I don’t think they got the same message.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You better start letting dealers know that. I don’t think they got the same message.

If you believe the economy is gonna truly falter, this will also happen as a result.

If the flood of repos happens, that could also help.

 

[NicPaus]

You better start letting dealers know that. I don’t think they got the same message.

Yeah. My buddy is still trying to buy a new f250. 20k markup still. I keep telling him to hold out. He is in Ontario CA. If anyone has dealer by there at msrp. No bs fees. He keeps trying to get me to go shopping with him. He always gets taken when buying.

 

[bonesfab]

If you believe the economy is gonna truly falter, this will also happen as a result.

If the flood of repos happens, that could also help.

Oh its coming. The car market is going to be the housing market of 2008. So much over extended credit out there on cars that are not worth 50% of what people owe.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Oh its coming. The car market is going to be the housing market of 2008. So much over extended credit out there on cars that are not worth 50% of what people owe.

Yea we’ll see what happens. I’m waiting for desperation to set in before I buy another vehicle. But I’m not gonna live 18 months at a time waiting for the crash for a decade either

 

[Done-it-again]

If you believe the economy is gonna truly falter, this will also happen as a result.

If the flood of repos happens, that could also help.

I don't believe a collapse, but a slow down , yes.

Yeah. My buddy is still trying to buy a new f250. 20k markup still. I keep telling him to hold out. He is in Ontario CA. If anyone has dealer by there at msrp. No bs fees. He keeps trying to get me to go shopping with him. He always gets taken when buying.

Can try fleet at Sunrise Ford. Haven't bought a new car in 6yrs, so don't know if they are doing markups on super duty's.

 

[angiebaby]

I have all those features in my 2021. But I opted for gas. It's rated to tow 16k. Same truck diesel was 65k plus fees. Sticker was 54k with discount $47.5 plus fees.

I had 2 diesels when I bought it. Sold 1 and bought used gas. 1 cp4 diesel is all that's needed. Fuel pump failures are 11k. Minimize the risk by selling 1. I can replace the gas engine for half the price of a fuel pump in the diesel.

It's not all about towing capacity. It's also about the longevity of the engine. We won't purchase another new diesel because of the CA-induced smog crap. The DEF in the Colorado is a PITA and has doubled in price in the past two years. Our friend has a 2016 Chevrolet Duramax, and the DEF pump went out. He took it to the dealer, and they said they no longer make the pump. It can't be replaced. Hence, my "self-destruct features" comment above. The assumption is that he will purchase a new truck, even though it's only 7 years old. This makes automotive and finance industries happy. It's like the new household appliances. They are designed to break within 4-5 years, forcing you to purchase new ones. Appliance companies and big box stores thank you. Our daughter has the original kitchen range in her house from 1977. It still works great. I told her she is going to be stuck with a brown range forever because that thing will never die. We live in an economy based on mass consumption. The only way to keep it going is to entice people to keep purchasing, either by social pressure or necessity when things break.


Anyway, bottom line is I'm not paying over MSRP for anything. I'm also not getting into a bidding war for a house. Y'all have a good time contributing to the craziness. I'm out.

 

[OCMerrill]

Yeah they’ll have to be even deeper now.
Average cost of new car today: $47k
Same, but in 2018: $36k

The “affordability” is non/existent for average buyers, and it’s compounded by rising rates and tightening credit.

Might be a good time to become an auto mechanic as were turning into Cuba faster than one would think.
Wait Until you have to rebuild a small engine and not only are they banned in CA but they will eventually ban the parts also.

This Focus I bought my Daughter has been another Ford lack of success story and recently waited 4 months for a TCM.
She's about to leave the state for PT School so were looking at cars and throw the POS Focus in the trash.
I have no patience or desire to buy another car right now and she cannot afford reliable transportation with all the Hospital / schooling volunteer time she will have to endure, so its all on me.

 

[Chili Palmer]

It's not all about towing capacity. It's also about the longevity of the engine. We won't purchase another new diesel because of the CA-induced smog crap. The DEF in the Colorado is a PITA and has doubled in price in the past two years. Our friend has a 2016 Chevrolet Duramax, and the DEF pump went out. He took it to the dealer, and they said they no longer make the pump. It can't be replaced. Hence, my "self-destruct features" comment above. The assumption is that he will purchase a new truck, even though it's only 7 years old. This makes automotive and finance industries happy. It's like the new household appliances. They are designed to break within 4-5 years, forcing you to purchase new ones. Appliance companies and big box stores thank you. Our daughter has the original kitchen range in her house from 1977. It still works great. I told her she is going to be stuck with a brown range forever because that thing will never die. We live in an economy based on mass consumption. The only way to keep it going is to entice people to keep purchasing, either by social pressure or necessity when things break.


Anyway, bottom line is I'm not paying over MSRP for anything. I'm also not getting into a bidding war for a house. Y'all have a good time contributing to the craziness. I'm out.

I always thought by law that the manufacturers had to make parts available for 10 years after a design change.

 

[SummitKarl]

Had to get the 40k service done on my 2017 F350.

While waiting, started looking for a new round town toy. Quickly walked away. Holly F.

Customer of mine is the GM for several Ford Dealerships in Mohave County, invoice +$1000 - Friends & Family discount (roughly covers destination charges) on Ford factory orders, by the time your out the door with tax and lic, it works out to about the same as the MSRP off the Ford web site...must take Arizona delivery, any factory promotions at time of delivery may also be applied, NO MARKET ADJUSTMENT CRAP!!!!, it may not be a super mega deal but it's way better then a "on the Lot window sticker".

 

[NicPaus]

I always thought by law that the manufacturers had to make parts available for 10 years after a design change.

Pretty sure the warranty is 10 years on the smog stuff also. Have a friend with a f550 that it went out on. Lengthy battle with Ford but they are covering the 14k repair.

I sure hope they make all the parts for my 2015 Duramax. It only has 15k miles.

 

[Flatsix66]

Yeah. My buddy is still trying to buy a new f250. 20k markup still. I keep telling him to hold out. He is in Ontario CA. If anyone has dealer by there at msrp. No bs fees. He keeps trying to get me to go shopping with him. He always gets taken when buying.

Every day I see the parking lot at the Irvine train station filling with new F250s. I can't imagine the local dealer (Tuttle-Click?) would want to sit on the overflowing inventory and still command over MSRP.

 

[pronstar]

There's still some models that are commanding premiums, but that pool is shrinking fast as buyers balk.

Days supply for all carmakers is rising very fast. Some are gonna get caught holding the floorplanning bag, methinks.

 

[sintax]

Pretty sure the warranty is 10 years on the smog stuff also. Have a friend with a f550 that it went out on. Lengthy battle with Ford but they are covering the 14k repair.

I sure hope they make all the parts for my 2015 Duramax. It only has 15k miles.

Man that really is a scary thing, thats the big reason I sold my BMW 335d, the warranty was expiring and the SCR / DPF system was starting to shit the bed. BMW covered part of the repair at the tune of $3200, so I knew it was time.

I cant imagine spending 90-120k on a truck only to get 8 years down the road and have to make that call.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

There's still some models that are commanding premiums, but that pool is shrinking fast as buyers balk.

Days supply for all carmakers is rising very fast. Some are gonna get caught holding the floorplanning bag, methinks.

Yes! I’d be willing to help them out of their pickle.

 

[530RL]

Some data.

Pre-pandemic US dealer inventory in November of 2019 was about 3.55 million units on dealer lots.

By November of 21 it had dropped to 880,000 units.

In November of 22, inventory had risen to 1.62 million units, still less than half of pre-pandemic inventory levels.

 

[JBS]

It's not all about towing capacity. It's also about the longevity of the engine. We won't purchase another new diesel because of the CA-induced smog crap. The DEF in the Colorado is a PITA and has doubled in price in the past two years. Our friend has a 2016 Chevrolet Duramax, and the DEF pump went out. He took it to the dealer, and they said they no longer make the pump. It can't be replaced. Hence, my "self-destruct features" comment above. The assumption is that he will purchase a new truck, even though it's only 7 years old. This makes automotive and finance industries happy. It's like the new household appliances. They are designed to break within 4-5 years, forcing you to purchase new ones. Appliance companies and big box stores thank you. Our daughter has the original kitchen range in her house from 1977. It still works great. I told her she is going to be stuck with a brown range forever because that thing will never die. We live in an economy based on mass consumption. The only way to keep it going is to entice people to keep purchasing, either by social pressure or necessity when things break.


Anyway, bottom line is I'm not paying over MSRP for anything. I'm also not getting into a bidding war for a house. Y'all have a good time contributing to the craziness. I'm out.

I have a 2016 Yukon Denali XL that I am going to leave at our place in Texas as soon as I can buy a Truck without all the markup.

Your statement above made me think maybe this a bad idea? Are 2016 Gm parts going to be hard to get? I only have 87,000 miles and the suv has been minimal trouble. In looking on Google these pumps seem readily available. Cannot say they are OEM but if NAPA is selling them they are probably ok.

 

[pronstar]

Man that really is a scary thing, thats the big reason I sold my BMW 335d, the warranty was expiring and the SCR / DPF system was starting to shit the bed. BMW covered part of the repair at the tune of $3200, so I knew it was time.

I cant imagine spending 90-120k on a truck only to get 8 years down the road and have to make that call.

I knowingly bought a “special” 3 Series from a member a while back. It was a CA-only SULEV 3 Series.

The fuel pump is sealed in the tank, the entire rear subframe has be removed to get to it…so it was basically a disposable car because its $7k+ in labor plus a super expensive tank/pump unit.

Thankfully the tranny let go before the fuel pump did

 

[Chili Palmer]

Pretty sure the warranty is 10 years on the smog stuff also. Have a friend with a f550 that it went out on. Lengthy battle with Ford but they are covering the 14k repair.

I sure hope they make all the parts for my 2015 Duramax. It only has 15k miles.

Without the smog equipment the Duramax is a long lasting, very reliable engine, with smog equipment, not so much......so my friend tells me.

 

[Tooms22]

@RiverDave... I think there are some inmates in here complaining about how things are being priced when it's none of their business!

Ban Hammer!

 

[Blue Oval]

I have close friend from childhood who is a cad/gmc dealer. (100+ year family business) He echos that sentiment.

I was a guest on the trip to the dealer meeting in Vegas last year (read as I went to Vegas with them but not the meetings) and the overall morale of the industry was markedly different than previous years. I remember sitting at the roulette table with a dealer from New Jersey and it was eye-opening and jaw-dropping to hear the bullshit that they had been going through.

I didn’t go to the Vegas Meeting. Ford pushed us. I’m not a Vegas fan. Good friend/dealer called me from there. Ford introduced the new line of EV vehicles there. We were EV Certified, spent 60k for the tools. They announced we now owe them 500k to continue, if you want to be hook directly to Fords web site to sell them it would be 1.2M to sign up. I’ll turn my dealership into a Bar before I hand them that kinda money. Super glad I did not go to the meeting. All my dealer friends came home pissed off.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I didn’t go to the Vegas Meeting. Ford pushed us. I’m not a Vegas fan. Good friend/dealer called me from there. Ford introduced the new line of EV vehicles there. We were EV Certified, spent 60k for the tools. They announced we now owe them 500k to continue, if you want to be hook directly to Fords web site to sell them it would be 1.2M to sign up. I’ll turn my dealership into a Bar before I hand them that kinda money. Super glad I did not go to the meeting. All my dealer friends came home pissed off.

So this is just a ploy to force smaller dealers to “opt out” of Ford’s direct to consumer sales plans?

 

[pkbullet]

Every day I see the parking lot at the Irvine train station filling with new F250s. I can't imagine the local dealer (Tuttle-Click?) would want to sit on the overflowing inventory and still command over MSRP.

I guarantee he would take 500 extra today gladly. The shortage of super duty is extreme . Last call I was on was 10day national supply. Since it take a day or so to prep and get customer to take delivery it shows they are presold.

 

[Blue Oval]

So this is just a ploy to force smaller dealers to “opt out” of Ford’s direct to consumer sales plans?

I sold 23 Bronco’s the morning Ford opened up online ordering. 3 years ago! Still fighting to get them built for my customers. I’m fine with taking my own orders. Really have no desire to have Ford sell cars for me.

 

[havasujeeper]

I sitting and waiting for Lexuit to become more realistic with money in the bank, but sure as hell not going to pay a premium.

 

[pkbullet]

I didn’t go to the Vegas Meeting. Ford pushed us. I’m not a Vegas fan. Good friend/dealer called me from there. Ford introduced the new line of EV vehicles there. We were EV Certified, spent 60k for the tools. They announced we now owe them 500k to continue, if you want to be hook directly to Fords web site to sell them it would be 1.2M to sign up. I’ll turn my dealership into a Bar before I hand them that kinda money. Super glad I did not go to the meeting. All my dealer friends came home pissed off.

Just order my first four 240 kilowatt chargers at a 107k each. So glad to soon be an ex dealer.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Self destruct features... LOL...

I like leather also for how easy it is to keep clean. The modern "vinyl" upholstery is nearly as nice, but it is tough to get seat heaters in those. And I'm like Angie, I need those seat heaters. As such, I'm solidly in the used market.

LOF is right, we are our own worst enemy.

Idk about other manufacturers...but my cloth seats in my ram mega cab have heat...as does my steering wheel.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Idk about other manufacturers...but my cloth seats in my ram mega cab have heat...as does my steering wheel.

Same with my Ford cloth. I cant even sit in the seat with the heat on level 3. But you can't get cooled seats without leather.

 

[angiebaby]

I see very little reason to get a diesel today. $10k more to spend $1 more per gallon wipes the efficiency equation out. Then roll the dice on a $10k out of warranty repair.

Good for you. I'm glad we get choices so we can all purchase what we desire according to our personal needs

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Idk about other manufacturers...but my cloth seats in my ram mega cab have heat...as does my steering wheel.

Same with my Ford cloth. I cant even sit in the seat with the heat on level 3. But you can't get cooled seats without leather.

I've never seen those in the wild, but heard that they exist.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

I've never seen those in the wild, but heard that they exist.

Mine was around 15-20 less than a leather trimmed truck would have cost....and I did NOT want leather again, nor will I ever own a sunroof in a truck again. I still have a large display, the airbags, high output engine, fog lights, 360* camera system, pucks in bed, etc etc...all the other "options" I would have wanted.. just skipped the handful of things I didn't want. The dealers don't want to order them because they can't mark them up higher than

 

[530RL]

Used car price index released after market closed today.

Used Vehicle Value Index

Print Market Insights Overview Index Release DateThursday, Nov 7 Mid-Month Release DateTuesday, Nov 19 View Full Release Calendar Quarterly Conference Call The next quarterly Manheim Used Vehicle Value Index (MUVVI) conference call is scheduled for Wednesday, Jan 8 at 11am ET. Join Cox...

publish.manheim.com

Used vehicle prices rising at an unseasonably strong rate

Cox Automotive reports wholesale used vehicle prices increased 4.3% in February from January — marking the largest increase between the two months since 2009.

www.cnbc.com

 

[HNL2LHC]

The post above your says it all. People hate it but begrudgingly pay. This is fueled by post Covid YOLO.

I’m half ready to just go buy a Camaro myself, so I get it.

I did that last year. Now broke and looking to sell everything at a loss. J/K having the time of my life!!! The water Is great jump on in with the rest of us!!!! Buy that Camaro you deserve it!!!!!

 

[Angler]

I see no reason to buy a new or used truck. I'll have my 6.0 guy just rebuild mine for under 15k.

 

[rrrr]

Yeah they’ll have to be even deeper now.
Average cost of new car today: $47k
Same, but in 2018: $36k

The “affordability” is non/existent for average buyers, and it’s compounded by rising rates and tightening credit.

I read in the WSJ last week that auto loan delinquencies and repos are up about 30% over 2021 numbers.