Congratulation!!! Gary winner of 2009 Parker 300

[ColeTR2]

I just got off the Phone with Gary He is the over all winner of the 2009 Parker 300 in his 21RC Schiada. He dose do all his own work on this boat. He has been racing boats sense the early 60's. And is a great guy ... hope im having this much fun when I'm 70.

[video=youtube;19PsULYjXXQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19PsULYjXXQ[/video]

Congratulation!!! Gary and all Team 17 .

 

[Hallett]

That's great news Mike I was under the impression that he took second this is great
if anyone deserves to win he does. congratulations Gary you sure drove a hard race.
way to go buddy.:thumbsup

 

[wrighton]

Congrats Gary and team.

 

[ColeTR2]

I was under the impression that he took second this is great. If anyone deserves to win he does. congratulations

Nope #1 Over All ... Nordic had penalties ... I think did not score their laps correct. :thumbsup

 

[CampbellCarl]

I've heard the Nordic had total of four penalty laps. 2 for scoring errors and 2 for driver infractions ie they douched a patrol boat!

CC

 

[RiverDave]

I just got off the Phone with Gary He is the over all winner of the 2009 Parker 300 in his 21RC Schiada. He dose do all his own work on this boat. He has been racing boats sense the early 60's. And is a great guy ... hope im having this much fun when I'm 70.

YouTube - Parker 300 Boat Race 2009 Winner #17 Schiada

Congratulation!!! Gary and all Team 17 .

Mike are you sitting up on the deck shooting some of that video?



Congragulations to Gary and Team!! That is ONE HELL OF AN ACCOMPLISHMENT!! I'm stoked a Schiada took it down overall as well.

RD

 

[RyanPartridge]

Congrats to Gary and crew!

 

[Racey]

Congrats Gary!!!

 

[CampbellCarl]

Mike are you sitting up on the deck shooting some of that video?



Congragulations to Gary and Team!! That is ONE HELL OF AN ACCOMPLISHMENT!! I'm stoked a Schiada took it down overall as well.

RD

Oh, so now you're back on the Schiada band wagon huh RD? That didn't take very long! Seems that just last week you were sayin Avilla would take the checkered flag.

RD SUX

:moon:

 

[Marko]

Who cares about Schiada's , I'm just stoked a V-drive won and not an outboard!

 

[ColeTR2]

Mike are you sitting up on the deck shooting some of that video?

LOL!

 

[RiverDave]

Oh, so now you're back on the Schiada band wagon huh RD? That didn't take very long! Seems that just last week you were sayin Avilla would take the checkered flag.

RD SUX

:moon:

WarPath didn't run.. LOL. I'm always on the Schiada BandWagon Carl.. But there aren't too many 21 RC's that are going to run on the 140's, and cruise in the 110's.. LOL

I'm stoked a 21 RC took it down.

RD

 

[RiverDave]

LOL!

You got balls buddy..

RD

 

[ColeTR2]

I've been hanging out of airplanes making video's the last few weeks. So it didn't seen like that big of a deal... I told gary not to go over 30 mph. I always say to Gary... I have no kids and no dependents.. So drive this boat like you're the only one in it ....

 

[RiverDave]

I've been hanging out of airplanes making video's the last few weeks. So it didn't seen like that big of a deal... I told gary not to go over 30 mph. I always say to Gary... I have no kids and no dependents.. So drive this boat like you're the only one in it ....

The going fast thing doesn't bother me much.. LOL The sitting on the deck facing backwards at 30mph holding a camera..

Well I'm a little outta shape to be trying that balancing act. Good angle though! You definately get a shirt for risking life and limb for our entertainment.

You'd get 2 if you post that shit here 1st.

RD

 

[Mrdeadair]

Great video and congrats to Gary

 

[STV_Keith]

Who cares about Schiada's , I'm just stoked a V-drive won and not an outboard!

Stack enough rules and limitations on the outboards and the car motor boats can win. Now that the I/O's have a win, will they get more handicaps or will they just remove some of the OB handicaps or do nothing at all?

 

[Racey]

Who cares about Schiada's , I'm just stoked a V-drive won and not an outboard!

Amen brother :skull

 

[BadBlown572]

Stack enough rules and limitations on the outboards and the car motor boats can win. Now that the I/O's have a win, will they get more handicaps or will they just remove some of the OB handicaps or do nothing at all?

Did you ever hear what happened to Al Stoker? Didn't see him running at the end.

 

[CampbellCarl]

Did you ever hear what happened to Al Stoker? Didn't see him running at the end.

Probably had a bunch of rules stacked against him that wouldn't let him finish

 

[STV_Keith]

Al had fuel delivery issues in the corners, which is why the boat stopped at turn 4 several times. In the end, he broke a piston. If he didn't break, he would have had the overall and our class. John Lane would have been right behind him.

 

[schiada96]

who was driving the 660 boat?

 

[Racey]

Stack enough rules and limitations on the outboards and the car motor boats can win. Now that the I/O's have a win, will they get more handicaps or will they just remove some of the OB handicaps or do nothing at all?

Personally i think the race should have no handicaps and be a heads up race for the overall. 'Overall' means just that, the overall winner. Whoever does X amount of laps or distance first wins. within that they can run divisions for outboards, i/o's, v-drives, naturally aspirated vs forced induction, flat vs. v, however they wish. But overall needs to be left fair and square and just what the word means, Over All.

Look, they don't give stock Volkswagens a 15 hour head start in the Baja 1000 to make a level playing field between them and the trophy trucks, they don't run pro-stock vs funny cars in a bracket race, in formula 1 they don't give extra laps to teams that have smaller budgets. Why should they have to level the playing field between 19' 300hp outboards and 21' 1,200hp v-bottoms? there is no competition between the two, and there never will be.

That's just my opinion on the subject

 

[RiverDave]

Stack enough rules and limitations on the outboards and the car motor boats can win. Now that the I/O's have a win, will they get more handicaps or will they just remove some of the OB handicaps or do nothing at all?

Man Keith, I think you got that kinda backwards?

Personally I think Racey's right.. Let em run all even and have different classes. No 15 minute handicaps and all that shit..

Start 1/2 the field at the North end of the Course, and 1/2 the Field at the south end of the course (just so there's not a total cluster fuck going into turn one, and at the start.)

RD

 

[STV_Keith]

Why should they have to level the playing field between 19' 300hp outboards and 21' 1,200hp v-bottoms? there is no competition between the two, and there never will be.

The competition is which one will live to the end. I agree though, take away the low propshaft requirement, weight requirement, head cc requirement, 130 cu-in engine requirement, no power adder requirement, etc, etc, etc. Look at the rules, the only boats with a weight minimum were OB's. The only boats with a propshaft height restriction were OB's except Div VI.

Man Keith, I think you got that kinda backwards?

Personally I think Racey's right.. Let em run all even and have different classes. No 15 minute handicaps and all that shit..

Start 1/2 the field at the North end of the Course, and 1/2 the Field at the south end of the course (just so there's not a total cluster fuck going into turn one, and at the start.)

RD

Sounds good. Not sure I'd want to drive, but a properly setup Mod VP with current technology 2.5l F1 motor, normal propshaft heights and no weight minimums would probably run with that Nordic heads up.

 

[racerden]

who was driving the 660 boat?

Benjamin, Louis & Rey
________
Mary jane collective los angeles

 

[schiada96]

Benjamin, Louis & Rey

Thats my old boat, cool to see it racing

 

[CycloneRacing]

Congrats to Gary. That is a cool accomplishment to win the parker enduro. To bad for Randy Davis. He by far had the fastest boat on the race course and should have won the race.

I dissagree with the starting system of the Parker Enduro. I mean Randy Davis was going to catch everyone eventually. But why should a twin turbo cyclone jet boat get a 30 or 40 minute head start just because its a jet boat. He was leading the first part of the race. I jus thtink there should be a different format. As well as transponders on the bopats to count your laps instead of a team member up there doing it. Just my thoughts.

Gary's boat is beautiful though.

 

[STV_Keith]

RPM had their own person(s) counting, and your provided person is their backup. A transponder system would be nice, but they have said they don't work so well on water.

Before Mr. Davis' rig, all the other jet boats had been so off the pace that they needed the handicap to even be considered competitive. Perhaps they need to amend the rules that jets can be in Div 1, but anything with a "Z" drive or transmission should be pushed back to another class. If that boat didn't have the overdrive of the "Z" drive, I don't think it would have been as fast as they would then have to spin the motor up to get the speed - and it might not have lived.

 

[BadBlown572]

Personally, I think that they way that it should be run would be in groups based on MPH. Enter any boat you want based on the top speed it will run. Lock a GPS in a box, and if you go over the top speed you declared, you get penalized. Run blown I/O's with V-drives, Jets, and Outboards. Forget trying to level the playing field with rules. Let people run whatever they want and offset the start times to account for the differences.

I also think that it would be great because it would open up the field for a bunch of other boats. I would love to run my red boat in the enduro, but last year, I would have had to run in Division 5. I would have been running against twin engine O/B's, Blown V-drives, etc... Many of those boats will easily run over 100mph. There would be no way for me to be competitive running in that class. No reason to go out and race if there is no way to win.

 

[Racey]

Personally, I think that they way that it should be run would be in groups based on MPH. Enter any boat you want based on the top speed it will run. Lock a GPS in a box, and if you go over the top speed you declared, you get penalized. Run blown I/O's with V-drives, Jets, and Outboards. Forget trying to level the playing field with rules. Let people run whatever they want and offset the start times to account for the differences.

I also think that it would be great because it would open up the field for a bunch of other boats. I would love to run my red boat in the enduro, but last year, I would have had to run in Division 5. I would have been running against twin engine O/B's, Blown V-drives, etc... Many of those boats will easily run over 100mph. There would be no way for me to be competitive running in that class. No reason to go out and race if there is no way to win.

That's not a bad idea, have classes based on top speed, if you break out you get bumped into the next class, there are just so many configurations of boats in that race that you could have 100 classes and still someone would feel cheated, At least dividing by MPH would allow people to enter a fair deal no matter what kind of power and drive configuration they have. It would be more fun and competitive for the little guys that have no chance in taking the overall victory.

But the 'Overall' winner needs to be left completely free of handicaps, overall should be flat out the most badass fastest overall enduring boat on the water, period. Everyone runs for the same amount of time, or the same amount of distance, and then whoever completes the most laps (if your are running for time), or whoever completes x amount of laps the fastest (if you are running for distance).

 

[STV_Keith]

If it's grouped by speed, then it just comes down to who can finish right? I mean, it would be easy to take a 100mph boat, limit it to 80, run the 80mph class and just sit at 80mph for the whole course. Kinda takes the competition out of it, right? If everyone in the 80mph class runs 79.5 the whole time, who's the winner? The guy with the inside line?

 

[BadBlown572]

That's not a bad idea, have classes based on top speed, if you break out you get bumped into the next class, there are just so many configurations of boats in that race that you could have 100 classes and still someone would feel cheated, At least dividing by MPH would allow people to enter a fair deal no matter what kind of power and drive configuration they have. It would be more fun and competitive for the little guys that have no chance in taking the overall victory.

But the 'Overall' winner needs to be left completely free of handicaps, overall should be flat out the most badass fastest overall enduring boat on the water, period. Everyone runs for the same amount of time, or the same amount of distance, and then whoever completes the most laps (if your are running for time), or whoever completes x amount of laps the fastest (if you are running for distance).

So you do not agree with the timed starts for the overall winner? I do not know how you could set that up with handicaps for the speed classes. It would be nice if you could, but I just don't see how it is feasible. Maybe give an award for the fastest average speed. I would be all for that!


Personally, I also think that they should change it to where the race does not end as soon as the first boat crosses the line. Let each boat running finish. There have been a couple of times when the class winner (turned most laps in the class) was sitting on the trailer when the race was called as over, yet others in the class were out there still running. In my opinion, you should have to cross the finish line to be declared the winner. Once everyone finishes, take positions based off of the order in which they retired to the pits. Just because you hauled ass for the first 3 hours of the race doesn't mean that you should automatically get the trophy when others are out there still running. It is a marathon not a sprint.

 

[BadBlown572]

If it's grouped by speed, then it just comes down to who can finish right? I mean, it would be easy to take a 100mph boat, limit it to 80, run the 80mph class and just sit at 80mph for the whole course. Kinda takes the competition out of it, right? If everyone in the 80mph class runs 79.5 the whole time, who's the winner? The guy with the inside line?

I think in the most basic form you are correct, however, I think that there are so many different variables that there is no way that anyone would ever truly average 79.5 without going over 80mph. I think that you would be surprised in the variance of speeds within a class. Not only that, decelerating for the turns, speeding up, water conditions, etc... would also play a big part.

I also would be fine with a 100mph boat running in the 80mph class. If he goes over, penalize him a lap. A lot of people don't want to run the enduro because pushing your equipment to the breaking point gets very expensive. If they are confident that their boat will run 80mph all day long without breaking, let them run.

 

[STV_Keith]

I wasn't saying that you could average 79.5, but could run right at 80 for the full lap. Accelerating away from the corner would also be the benefit of the faster boat in a slower class. Back to speed sooner, averaging more time at speed.

Also, how would you know what lap or how many laps a boat was over speed if the GPS is in the boat? Max speed recall is a one shot deal.

Just seems like it takes all the competition out of the event. Now you're just racing your shadow and the GPS.

 

[BadBlown572]

I wasn't saying that you could average 79.5, but could run right at 80 for the full lap. Accelerating away from the corner would also be the benefit of the faster boat in a slower class. Back to speed sooner, averaging more time at speed.

Also, how would you know what lap or how many laps a boat was over speed if the GPS is in the boat? Max speed recall is a one shot deal.

Just seems like it takes all the competition out of the event. Now you're just racing your shadow and the GPS.

I have seen GPS plotters that will tell you exactly how fast you went over the course of a trip. I think that would be the best bet.

I know that no way of doing the setup will make everyone happy, but I know that for the past two years, I didn't run because there is no way that I could be competitive. I am not going to go out there, run the risk of blowing up equipment, and/or getting hurt if I can not win. If I race, I don't race for second. I think that this would be the best way to level the playing field for everyone and let people run whatever they want. Forget about building a race only boat, but you could run any boat with a motor. I think that the turnout would be much better and fair for all competitors.

In my opinion, if you want to go out and push the limits of a particular class, go to an SCSC event where they are running PS, SS, GN, Comp Jet, K's, SST's, etc... They used to have a Mod-VP class until everyone stopped showing up and racing it. That is the place to push the rules as far as possible. I just see the enduro's rules as being a hinderance versus a help. Either eliminate ALL rules and let people bring whatever they want, or handicap everyone based off of a common factor... speed. There is too much of a variance on performance factors to properly level the playing field.

 

[Flat Broke]

I think Danny is on the right track with this, and the beauty of it is that a GPS isn't even required. Equip each boat with an RFID and have a pickup point. A computer can then keep track of average lap speed without the use of a GPS. Considering the relatively small number of entries, and the slow (in terms of computing timeframes) accumulation of RFID entries, a moderately powerful database server should be able to handle this process.

I'll start by saying that I'm one of those guys that knows how stuff can be done, but not the nuts and bolts of doing every aspect of it. That being said each time an RFID passes the scanner, it enters a line in a database. The database is set with fields in that line that call for a comparrison between the time of the last entry with that RFID, and the current time. The computer then uses the GPS verified (static entry) coruse distance to derive the average lap speed. There is then a rule written that if the average lap speed > class speed, the lap isn't counted. This allows for instant penalties for running hot that are reflected in the current lap counts. The lap counts can be output in real time to bigscreens for easy status checks for spectators and competing teams alike.

Break the race up so that a boat signs up into a MPH bracket. The boat can be faster than that bracket and still average lap speeds inside the bracket due to deceleration for corners, trafic etc. A boat that runs 100 pegged in good water would probably have a tough time breaking out of a 90mph bracket, maybe even an 80mph one during race conditions. By using mph brackets, RPM can accurately space the starts so that in theory every boat still running should be in the hunt at the end without the issues of trying to account for twin turbo gearboxed jets etc.

Then as stated, all boats should run until they go the distance. In every year, I bet I can find an instance where a fast boat (for its respective class) put down a bunch of laps and then hit the trailer with a mechanical still managing to place better than another boat in the same class that was running at the end. By having all boats go until they withdraw or go the distance (regardless of if which division goes the distance first), the fastest overall time to go the distance can then be awarded the overall title, while still allowing the stagered starts for the slower boats to get laps in before things get hectic. If RPM has done their bracket work properly, the overall winner should be real close to the guy that finished the distance first on the running clock anyhow.

This system removes a huge manpower burden in lap counters, is cheap to run once developed, and can put out logs/reports that substantiate any claim made by the sanctioning body when questioned by competitors. I would think this is the type of thing a DBA off oDesk or a similar freelance website could put together in less than 40 hours not counting integration with the RFID hardware.

Chris

 

[RiverDave]

If it's grouped by speed, then it just comes down to who can finish right? I mean, it would be easy to take a 100mph boat, limit it to 80, run the 80mph class and just sit at 80mph for the whole course. Kinda takes the competition out of it, right? If everyone in the 80mph class runs 79.5 the whole time, who's the winner? The guy with the inside line?

I agree with that Keith..


On a side note, I think you guys are making somethin relatively simple and making it waaaayyyy complicated.

RD

 

[BadBlown572]

I agree with that Keith..


On a side note, I think you guys are making somethin relatively simple and making it waaaayyyy complicated.

RD

I really don't think so. Have you ever paid attention to their rules? Until you do, you really don't understand how skewed they are. Some of them are insane. Making my red boat run with Gary's 21 TT Schiada? 600h.p. vs. 1200'ish h.p. Who do you think is going to win that race?

Normally, they just lump features in together. For example, BB I/O's in one group, SB I/O's in another. Doesn't matter if it was a Bayliner or Stoker. They don't look at the overall picture. They look at what is the fastest boat that they can enter for this class and they base it off of that. If you can't run with the fastest boat allowed, you are not going to be competitive.

I actually think doing the classes based off of speed would be MUCH easier for the guys running the enduro. The rules would be "run whatever you want. Pick your class and if you break out, you are F'ed." Forget trying to determine how much lead an outboard will have to run, what size engine you should allow, what type of lower unit you can run, etc... As long as all "safety" points are met, let a blown GN boat run with a Wakker.

 

[Racey]

So you do not agree with the timed starts for the overall winner? I do not know how you could set that up with handicaps for the speed classes. It would be nice if you could, but I just don't see how it is feasible. Maybe give an award for the fastest average speed. I would be all for that!

It's not that complicated. Look at how they set the rules up for Baja. everyone runs the same distance, whoever gets the lowest elapsed time wins overall. within that there are also classes, (class 1 doesn't necessarily have to be the overall winner, someone in a lower class might beat the open class guys if they break, or have problems)

What I'm saying is you set the race up completely even for all entries with respect to the 'Overall' winner.

Simple, Two Options.
1. Every boat has to run X amount of miles (or laps)
-Overall winner is the boat that does this in the least amount of time

2. Every boat has to run for X amount of Hours
-Overall winner is the boat that completes the highest number of laps within the given time limit.


Within that you can have competitions for class wins as well, very simple. Just like off road, you are competing for two victories, your class victory, and the overall victory. Now we all know that not nearly every boat will be able to compete for the overall unless a lot of fast boats break... but it's still a very simple and straight forward system.

If it's grouped by speed, then it just comes down to who can finish right? I mean, it would be easy to take a 100mph boat, limit it to 80, run the 80mph class and just sit at 80mph for the whole course. Kinda takes the competition out of it, right? If everyone in the 80mph class runs 79.5 the whole time, who's the winner? The guy with the inside line?

If you want to take your 100mph boat and run it in the 50mph class that's your choice, normally everyone would want to run in the highest class they can compete in.

 

[BadBlown572]

It's not that complicated. Look at how they set the rules up for Baja. everyone runs the same distance, whoever gets the lowest elapsed time wins overall. within that there are also classes, (class 1 doesn't necessarily have to be the overall winner, someone in a lower class might beat the open class guys if they break, or have problems)

What I'm saying is you set the race up completely even for all entries with respect to the 'Overall' winner.

Simple, Two Options.
1. Every boat has to run X amount of miles (or laps)
-Overall winner is the boat that does this in the least amount of time

2. Every boat has to run for X amount of Hours
-Overall winner is the boat that completes the highest number of laps within the given time limit.


Within that you can have competitions for class wins as well, very simple. Just like off road, you are competing for two victories, your class victory, and the overall victory. Now we all know that not nearly every boat will be able to compete for the overall unless a lot of fast boats break... but it's still a very simple and straight forward system.

I see what you are saying and I think that would work.

 

[Flat Broke]

I agree with that Keith..


On a side note, I think you guys are making somethin relatively simple and making it waaaayyyy complicated.

RD

Dave,

I've gotta disagree. As the event stands right now with the manual lap counting staggered starts etc, its a PITA. You want super simple? RFID every boat, run a databases like I posted about earlier, set the timer for 9 hours and come back when the times up. There will be a printout with overall winner, class rankings, and average speeds. Alternatively you could make it so that the DB kept track of how many laps each RFID completed vs total time, then flag the boats off the course as they knock down their 300 laps.

The only user interaction occurs when someone uses a data entry page to enter the boats into the DB (similar to filling out a form on a web page), and someone pushing a button to run automated querries that generate results or other pre-determined information breakdowns. Complicated to setup initially, but once it works, the system can be setup quickly at any event. They already use this technology for marathon running, rowing and tons of other applications. It's by and large "set it and forget it". Asside from the marine industry's general apprehension with regard to any type of technology, it doesn't get any easier.

Chris

 

[Racey]

Dave,

I've gotta disagree. As the event stands right now with the manual lap counting staggered starts etc, its a PITA. You want super simple? RFID every boat, run a databases like I posted about earlier, set the timer for 9 hours and come back when the times up. There will be a printout with overall winner, class rankings, and average speeds. Alternatively you could make it so that the DB kept track of how many laps each RFID completed vs total time, then flag the boats off the course as they knock down their 300 laps.

The only user interaction occurs when someone uses a data entry page to enter the boats into the DB (similar to filling out a form on a web page), and someone pushing a button to run automated querries that generate results or other pre-determined information breakdowns. Complicated to setup initially, but once it works, the system can be setup quickly at any event. They already use this technology for marathon running, rowing and tons of other applications. It's by and large "set it and forget it". Asside from the marine industry's general apprehension with regard to any type of technology, it doesn't get any easier.

Chris

I helped a friend that was a promoter setting up indoor motocross events (MiniMoto SX, and EnduroCross) here in vegas, and we used the transponder system with ankle bracelets on the riders and an antenna buried just barely under the surface of the track, occasionally we would get a missed lap and have to rely back on the manual lap counts by the officials... I don't know too much about RFID stuff, but what i've come across they are only good for a certain distance from the antenna (like within a few or several feet) unless there is some other type of technology that can monitor a floating course that is a few to several hundred feet wide, it would probably have to be overhead, like suspended from a crane over the river... it may not be possible to use transponders in a boat race there.....

But like i said all i know about them is what i've personally seen from the dirt bike races where the riders transponders were never more than 24" from the antenna.