Community College

[78Southwind]

So I am just wondering if anyone has kids (or yourself) will be attending Community College this coming semester? I read last year that New York was tuition free (2 and 4 years schools) and it looks like California is now tuition free for the first year for new students (2 year schools only).

Edit: Added the Bill https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB19

AB 19, Santiago. Community colleges: California College Promise.
Existing law establishes the California Community Colleges, under the administration of the Board of Governors of the California Community Colleges, as one of the segments of public postsecondary education in this state. Existing law authorizes the establishment of community college districts under the administration of community college governing boards, and authorizes these districts to provide instruction at community college campuses throughout the state. Existing law requires community college district governing boards to charge students an enrollment fee of $46 per unit per semester. Existing law requires the board of governors to waive this fee for students meeting prescribed requirements.
This bill would establish the California College Promise, to be administered by the Chancellor of the California Community Colleges, which shall distribute funding, upon appropriation by the Legislature, to each community college meeting prescribed requirements to be used to, among other things, accomplish specified policy goals and waive fees for one academic year for first-time students who are enrolled in 12 or more semester units or the equivalent at the college and complete and submit either a Free Application for Federal Student Aid or a California Dream Act application.

 

[DLow]

Yep. I start biochemistry in 2 weeks. Can’t wait, blah! Community college is very “cheap” compared to what I was paying at a university.

 

[78Southwind]

Yep. I start biochemistry in 2 weeks. Can’t wait, blah! Community college is very “cheap” compared to what I was paying at a university.

So is your tuition free? I read you have to carry 12 units per semester.

 

[DLow]

Nope. I live in AZ, so I guess I shouldn’t be one to talk.

 

[sirbob]

I paid for one of my kids to take a full schedule and it was about 1500 all in for a semester in Ca

 

[78Southwind]

Nope. I live in AZ, so I guess I shouldn’t be one to talk.

I am pretty sure CA was free in the 70's and damn near free when I first started Community College in the late 80's. I think I was paying $3 a unit.

 

[Andy B.]

No such thing as TUITION FREE middle class tax dollars that's why your taxes are so high! Sorry to vent but sick and tired of paying for other people, Socialism works as long as you tax the shit out of working peeps rant over.................

 

[78Southwind]

I paid for one of my kids to take a full schedule and it was about 1500 all in for a semester in Ca

Was the tuition free and was it their first year at Community College?

 

[Mandelon]

I don't know if it is true.... yet.

It will lead to overcrowding and crazy drop out rates.

They need to make it refundable.... IF you pass with a 2.0.

 

[78Southwind]

No such thing as TUITION FREE middle class tax dollars that's why your taxes are so high! Sorry to vent but sick and tired of paying for other people, Socialism works as long as you tax the shit out of working peeps rant over.................

I hear ya, I don't have any kids and pay higher than the nornal (1.25%) property tax rate. I also pay property tax in AZ. So I feel your pain.

 

[78Southwind]

I don't know if it is true.... yet.

It will lead to overcrowding and crazy drop out rates.

They need to make it refundable.... IF you pass with a 2.0.

I think it would be a better investment for the tax payer if the tuition was free for the last year of school instead of the first year of school. But I like the idea that a kid can go do a trade type program like Welding in a year and go find a good job.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB19

 

[Hallett Dave]

No such thing as TUITION FREE middle class tax dollars that's why your taxes are so high! Sorry to vent but sick and tired of paying for other people, Socialism works as long as you tax the shit out of working peeps rant over.................

Hell yes socialism is great until the state and federal governments have taxed and taxed and runs out the peoples money.
Socialism has never worked and never will. When are people going to wake the fuck up.
HD

 

[78Southwind]

Hell yes socialism is great until the state and federal governments have taxed and taxed and runs out the peoples money.
Socialism has never worked and never will. When are people going to wake the fuck up.
HD

As you know Dave, I agree with you. But this is never going to end at least when it comes to education. This is one reason education is so expensive and another is because of the access to federally guaranteed loans. I bought my first home when I was 19 and I have been paying for someone else's education or their kid's education through my property taxes ever since. The funny thing is that I didn't even take full advantage of the Cal State College / University system. Both my Bachelor and Masters degrees were earned at private schools. lol I am curious how this will affect the education system. Will education costs go up? Will trade type program/classes be utilized more?

 

[sirbob]

Was the tuition free and was it their first year at Community College?

No that's just what it cost - did 2 years about the same each time.

Possibly there is some program we didn't apply for?

 

[RogerThat99]

Was the tuition free and was it their first year at Community College?

My Daughter attended last year, and is starting her 3rd semester next week. No semesters have been free (but she started last year). I haven't heard about free tuition if it is your first year.

 

[78Southwind]

My Daughter attended last year, and is starting her 3rd semester next week. No semesters have been free (but she started last year). I haven't heard about free tuition if it is your first year.

I linked the Bill to the first post, it was approved by JB in Oct 2017.

 

[Ballyhoo]

No such thing as TUITION FREE middle class tax dollars that's why your taxes are so high! Sorry to vent but sick and tired of paying for other people, Socialism works as long as you tax the shit out of working peeps rant over.................

Thankk you! Nothing in life is free. Ask a socialist how they plan on paying for all their free tution and medical care.

Carefully read that above paragrahs sbout AB 19. Schools will have to meet certain requirements and it will include DACA kids or kids that fall under the DREAMERS act. In California at least it doesn’t sound like its for eeryone.

 

[Singleton]

....complete and submit either a Free Application for Federal Student Aid or a California Dream Act application.

The last sentence has it. You have to file the FAFSA and be eligible (student or parents have under 35k income annually) or be under the Ca dream act.
Normal red blooded US citizen who have parents working who earn over 35k annual don’t qualify!

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Out here the CC is funded through property taxes, similar to other parts of the country. Kids can apply for a "scholarship" which is essentially a work/study program. Keep up a B average and put in your work hours and there is no out-of-pocket tuition. You can also pay as you go or apply for federal grants and scholarships. It is my intention that my kids will take full advantage of the program, especially considering the amount of property taxes I pay.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Trade schools should be free not cc. Want to fix the stupid in this country put a wrench in a millennials hand.

 

[nameisbond]

I think free college is ridiculous...…. But I hate socialism! When I was in school. Starting in 1977. We had a book called passport to education. You earned money for good grades via a stamp in your passport. It was by good grades. By the time a straight A student finished high school, a two year college was free for them. Most of our two year colleges, you can transfer to a four year program from them. My cousin was from a "poor" family. He was a honor roll student. Earned his law degree for free. Besides earning money towards college for good grades. If you work for the government for two years, we forgive student loans. Cousin has been with our version of the IRS as a lawyer since 1991. I can see "free" if its earned via being a good student.

I believe even welfare should involve some kind of work. I was in Eastern Washington State recently. I stopped at a state highway rest area. The garbage cans overflowing with garbage, including the ones inside the bathroom. They should bus welfare bums and make them clean these places up!

 

[78Southwind]

Trade schools should be free not cc. Want to fix the stupid in this country put a wrench in a millennials hand.

Most community colleges have trade programs. I know Los Angeles Trade Tech Community College has around 90 different occupational programs. I hope more millennials take advantage of these programs and stay out of debt. I don't have any kids but it seems like my generation has brainwashed their kids into thinking that a basket weaving degree is better than a good blue-collar career.

 

[78Southwind]

The last sentence has it. You have to file the FAFSA and be eligible (student or parents have under 35k income annually) or be under the Ca dream act.
Normal red blooded US citizen who have parents working who earn over 35k annual don’t qualify!

I a not sure where you are coming up with that information. This is what is says on the FAFSA application: The Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) is the first step in the financial aid process. Complete the form online. You use it to apply for Federal student financial aid, such as grants, loans, and work-study. In addition, most states and schools use information from the FAFSA to award non-federal aid.

 

[78Southwind]

I think free college is ridiculous...…. But I hate socialism! When I was in school. Starting in 1977. We had a book called passport to education. You earned money for good grades via a stamp in your passport. It was by good grades. By the time a straight A student finished high school, a two year college was free for them. Most of our two year colleges, you can transfer to a four year program from them. My cousin was from a "poor" family. He was a honor roll student. Earned his law degree for free. Besides earning money towards college for good grades. If you work for the government for two years, we forgive student loans. Cousin has been with our version of the IRS as a lawyer since 1991. I can see "free" if its earned via being a good student.

I believe even welfare should involve some kind of work. I was in Eastern Washington State recently. I stopped at a state highway rest area. The garbage cans overflowing with garbage, including the ones inside the bathroom. They should bus welfare bums and make them clean these places up!

I think all free education is ridiculous (some don't respect it when it is free/subsidized). I know I was one of the ones that didn't take it seriously when I was in High School. I am glad that I got a second chance with community college where I did take it seriously. When I went to community college there would be literally 30+ students enrolled in the class and sometimes up to 20 students trying to add the class. Then the last week of school we would have 10 to 15 students left in the class. When I transfered to USC I never had a class where a student dropped (you couldn't afford to drop since you or your parents paid the entire cost of your education not the tax payers). I don't know if this is true everywhere but my friend who has high school level kids says the kids today are just pushed through the system.

However. we live in a society where almost 40% of California's general budget goes to providing education. So let's make the best of it. Let's realize that just like "owning a home" compared to renting a home, having a degree is not for everyone and it is ok. There's nothing wrong with having a blue-collar job. We should respect those that work hard no matter what they do.

I never really put much thought into before (I just figured those that dropped out of class were just lost, lazy or loosers) until I met an older Swiss man when I was fishing one day. We had light-harded conversation and found out that we both graduated from USC. We started talking about education and he told me how the current Swiss education system works (only about 20% of the population has degrees). I thought it was pretty interesting, at an early age say 15 or 16 they start to find out where the kids excel and they start the kids on a career path. Let that be University, a Technical School or even an Apprenticeship with a business. What is cool about it, is that you could start with an Apprenticeship and still end up at a University so you weren't stuck in a one dimensional path. You could literally start in an Apprenticeship program as a Cook in a hotel and continue to grow that path with a degree in Hospitality, ending up as a Hotel Manager.

 

[Singleton]

I a not sure where you are coming up with that information. This is what is says on the FAFSA application: The Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) is the first step in the financial aid process. Complete the form online. You use it to apply for Federal student financial aid, such as grants, loans, and work-study. In addition, most states and schools use information from the FAFSA to award non-federal aid.

Let me clarify. Yes FAFSA is free, but if you or your parents make more then 35k, you only get loans. To get CC paid for via your first question, you have to be eligible for grants to equal the costs.

 

[C-2]

Three years ago I returned to CC full-time and since I was self employed, I dropped my income to nearly nothing. We relied on wifeys income at about $55k with a family size if 3. I qualified for the Governors Waiver which paid for the tuition fees and there was also a little left over for books.

The next year I made more income and they reduced the award, I think our income was about $70k.

By the start of that academic year, I unexpectedly began interviewing with several state agencies. And since accumulating enough college credits to become ellibible for hire was my goal, I focused on getting hired and dropped all my classes.

In the meantime, they had sent me additional financial aid; which I paid back.

They also consider the value of assets you own beyond your SFR; their value can disqualify you.

FAFSA is a portal to different programs. Based on my last income track and in speaking with financial aid at school, I was on track for the majority of tuition being paid when I transferred to the CalState system.

After I get settled in, I most likely will return to school again, at age 55+- lol.

 

[TCHB]

I

No such thing as TUITION FREE middle class tax dollars that's why your taxes are so high! Sorry to vent but sick and tired of paying for other people, Socialism works as long as you tax the shit out of working peeps rant over.................

I am tired to paying for all the young people in public schools. Not really!!! I have no problem paying for education even though my kids went to private school. They did go to UCLA and Long Beach State.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Trade schools should be free not cc. Want to fix the stupid in this country put a wrench in a millennials hand.

I agree. So many kids out of high school have been so indoctrinated by the baby boomers and gen X'ers that they absolutely NEED a degree to be successful that there are now so many college graduates working a retail or food service job (overhead a guy working the register at McDonald's the other day saying he has a 4 year college degree) and yet we have a huge shortage of tradesman that can make very good money and be quiet accomplished. But, its not a technology based career so these idiots avoid it and will rather work a dead end job with huge school loan debt just so they can have a piece of paper that says they are "smart".

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[TPC]

We have one kid in JC here in Cali. It's about $1.100 a semester for a full 12 unit schedule.
Some kids get it free with low income parents.

What hasn't changed is their cars will be crunched in the College parking lot. It's a tradition, it's going to happen.

Maynard attends USC free because wife is a RN at the Hospital. Wifie has a nurse assistant that has 2 kids that went through USC and are now in the Pharmacy school,, all free too.
DO that free tuition math for that assistant that makes $16 an hour.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I agree. So many kids out of high school have been so indoctrinated by the baby boomers and gen X'ers that they absolutely NEED a degree to be successful that there are now so many college graduates working a retail or food service job (overhead a guy working the register at McDonald's the other day saying he has a 4 year college degree) and yet we have a huge shortage of tradesman that can make very good money and be quiet accomplished. But, its not a technology based career so these idiots avoid it and will rather work a dead end job with huge school loan debt just so they can have a piece of paper that says they are "smart".

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Gen Xer here and I don't have anything more than trade school. Served me well, I'm second in charge of a 40 million dollar utilty system.

College isn't the answer for everyone.

 

[TPC]

Learned my trades in the Marines. Lot of lead in the air.

 

[TCHB]

Gen Xer here and I don't have anything more than trade school. Served me well, I'm second in charge of a 40 million dollar utilty system.

College isn't the answer for everyone.

If you want to be in charge of a large utility power plant you will need a college diploma. If you want to up the ladder from there that piece of paper is required.

 

[Halvecto]

I'm a fan of the Community College route. For many kids, not knowing what, where or who they are makes going directly to the University a very expensive lesson and often sets them further back. Nobody cares where you start. I see the JC process as a way for kids to realize school is a commitment. Unlike High School, you have to want to be there and succeed to actually make it through. In CA, the cost benefit of going two years through JC and then basically going to any school you want to (assuming the right classes and grades are accomplished) is a slam dunk. It's an incredible value for the ones that use it to their advantage. Saw a recent study showing the final result of kids graduating from UC had little to no variance from those that transferred from JC vs. those that began as freshman. My view is that the JC reveals the mindset. If college is seen as one big social experiment, it will eat them up.

Universities today advertise their pools, workout facility and alumni gatherings more than their academic rigor and training to help kids become productive adults able to "earn" a better result in their career.

Many successful people I know started at JC, transferred to a 4-year, finished in four or five total and hit their career running.

Now, as for how that gets paid for......... Very, very few things that are "free" are ever seen as valuable by the beneficiary of that give away.

 

[Singleton]

I told my oldest and now my Sr in high school the following things occur the Aug after high school graduation. Your choice, but know something will occur.
1 - if you know what you want to study, go to a 4 year university. You have 4 years plus all the summer school you need on me and mom as long as you pull a 3.5 gpa. If you graduate in 4, I will purchase you a car (under 20k).
2 - if you have no clue, go to community college and figure it out. You can live at home, but rent is 500 a month, so get a job. Rent money will be refunded to you if you get accepted to a 4 year university to continue your studies after 2 years. Same rule, mom and dad pays if you pull a 3.5gpa and car after graduation.
3 - go learn a trade (construction, plumber, electrician, etc). You can live at home for 2 years while learning (rent 500 a month). Once certified that $$ will be used to purchase you a truck for work, but a car will be provided as you learn.
4 - join the military
5 - find your belongings in the driveway, house re-keyed and you are on your own.

Oldest selected option 1, studied Ecology & Evolutionary Biology at CU Boulder. Graduated in 4. He was on the hook for 3 semesters of tuition, but we gave him 1 get out of jail free (had a 3.25 freshman year while in marching band) so we ended up paying off 6 semesters of loans, he paid 2. Works full time manufacturing and installing replacement windows in Denver, while he works another 20 hours a week at the Denver Aquarium. He hopes to go to grad school in 2 years and is also working on his teaching credentials this fall. Kid is busy, but heading in the right direction.

Sr in HS, is heading towards option 2. Has no idea what he wants to study and picked schools based on climate. When asked “what do you want to study”, he has no clue. He has 3 months to figure something out. Time will tell.

 

[Halvecto]

I told my oldest and now my Sr in high school the following things occur the Aug after high school graduation. Your choice, but know something will occur.
1 - if you know what you want to study, go to a 4 year university. You have 4 years plus all the summer school you need on me and mom as long as you pull a 3.5 gpa. If you graduate in 4, I will purchase you a car (under 20k).
2 - if you have no clue, go to community college and figure it out. You can live at home, but rent is 500 a month, so get a job. Rent money will be refunded to you if you get accepted to a 4 year university to continue your studies after 2 years. Same rule, mom and dad pays if you pull a 3.5gpa and car after graduation.
3 - go learn a trade (construction, plumber, electrician, etc). You can live at home for 2 years while learning (rent 500 a month). Once certified that $$ will be used to purchase you a truck for work, but a car will be provided as you learn.
4 - join the military
5 - find your belongings in the driveway, house re-keyed and you are on your own.

Oldest selected option 1, studied Ecology & Evolutionary Biology at CU Boulder. Graduated in 4. He was on the hook for 3 semesters of tuition, but we gave him 1 get out of jail free (had a 3.25 freshman year while in marching band) so we ended up paying off 6 semesters of loans, he paid 2. Works full time manufacturing and installing replacement windows in Denver, while he works another 20 hours a week at the Denver Aquarium. He hopes to go to grad school in 2 years and is also working on his teaching credentials this fall. Kid is busy, but heading in the right direction.

Sr in HS, is heading towards option 2. Has no idea what he wants to study and picked schools based on climate. When asked “what do you want to study”, he has no clue. He has 3 months to figure something out. Time will tell.

Like it.

Only difference, I don't incentivize them to avoid JC with the rent. I also believe having them take small Fed Loans; gives them skin in the game. If they bomb, it's debt with no result for them to learn from. If not, I'll pay them off. If I'm paying for University, then JC is just a different mode. The money savings alone with that route is valuable. Going to JC is not punishment for now knowing what they want to do or if they didn't kick in gear with grades in HS, it is opportunity to focus and getting a running start at University. If they blow that, well......

I am on kid #4 finishing HS. Currently one in Grad school, one in University and one at JC.

Wish I "knew then, what I know now".

 

[shueman]

My kid did 2yrs of CC for his gen ed requirements out of the way then 2yrs UCLA to get his degree ... saved us some $$$ !

 

[Singleton]

Like it.

Only difference, I don't incentivize them to avoid JC with the rent. I also believe having them take small Fed Loans; gives them skin in the game. If they bomb, it's debt with no result for them to learn from. If not, I'll pay them off. If I'm paying for University, then JC is just a different mode. The money savings alone with that route is valuable. Going to JC is not punishment for now knowing what they want to do or if they didn't kick in gear with grades in HS, it is opportunity to focus and getting a running start at University. If they blow that, well......

I am on kid #4 finishing HS. Currently one in Grad school, one in University and one at JC.

Wish I "knew then, what I know now".

Shit forgot that. I will pay rent for an apartment close to CC campus and provide $$ food, that is equal to what a dorm (plus meal program) would cost at SDSU. Part of our plan is to make the kid live on their own and start to experience life outside mom place. The 500 is my way of saying you can live at home and pay rent or we will provide for an apartment by campus.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Gen Xer here and I don't have anything more than trade school. Served me well, I'm second in charge of a 40 million dollar utilty system.

College isn't the answer for everyone.

So,am I. I have some college credit, probably enough cumulative to have an associates degree but the credits are too spread around i believe. I make a pretty good living and have a lot,of upward mobility in my trade if working for the right company,based on my job experience. The smaller private sector in the trades that paper means even less.

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[Halvecto]

Shit forgot that. I will pay rent for an apartment close to CC campus and provide $$ food, that is equal to what a dorm (plus meal program) would cost at SDSU. Part of our plan is to make the kid live on their own and start to experience life outside mom place. The 500 is my way of saying you can live at home and pay rent or we will provide for an apartment by campus.

My .02: The fact that your laying out a clear line is valuable. Wish I would have been more "structured" on this earlier. You can make adjustments, but when things get out of sorts, your lane markers will help. Kids need structure and clarity. They may not like it, but it gives them support, whether they realize it or not.

Sticking to your position actually helps them in the long run. Parenting in these days of immediate feedback and response loop of social media and tech pushes us to points of discomfort.

We all have stories of "when I was a kid" or the tough love of friends or our own family that we'd like to shower our kids with. Truth is, most of our kids do desperately need help in becoming adults. The current culture sure doesn't require it.

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[78Southwind]

Let me clarify. Yes FAFSA is free, but if you or your parents make more then 35k, you only get loans. To get CC paid for via your first question, you have to be eligible for grants to equal the costs.

I think you have confused the new program (California College Promise) with Pell and Cal Grants. To be honest with you I don't know if the new program is even being funded yet. That's why I was asking in this thread. Here is what an article that I read had to say about the program.

The new law, AB19, allows for community colleges to cover tuition for all students, regardless of income. Its impact is uncertain, though — each community college will decide whether to use the money they receive under the law for that purpose.
https://edsource.org/2018/getting-free-college-tuition-in-california-a-quick-guide/599039

 

[78Southwind]

So a couple months ago, I was reading this article and was in shock after reading it. I knew that student loan debt was huge at around 1.4 trillion but this shit is insane. After 20-25 years you don't have to pay your student loan any more (it's forgiven) and the taxpayers are on the hook.

Mike Meru Has $1 Million in Student Loans. How Did That Happen?
Escalating tuition and easy credit have yielded a class of student-loan borrowers with spectacular debt they may never pay back

DRAPER, Utah—Mike Meru, a 37-year-old orthodontist, made a big investment in his education. As of Thursday, he owed $1,060,945.42 in student loans.

Mr. Meru pays only $1,589.97 a month—not enough to cover the interest, so his debt from seven years at the University of Southern California grows by $130 a day. In two decades, his loan balance will be $2 million.

He and his wife, Melissa, have become numb to the burden, focused instead on raising their two daughters. “If you thought about it every single day,” Mrs. Meru said, “you’d have a mental breakdown.”

Due to escalating tuition and easy credit, the U.S. has 101 people who owe at least $1 million in federal student loans, according to the Education Department. Five years ago, 14 people owed that much.

More could join that group. While the typical student borrower owes $17,000, the number of those who owe at least $100,000 has risen to around 2.5 million, nearly 6% of the borrowing pool, Education Department data show.


For graduate-school students especially, there is little incentive for universities to help put the brakes on big borrowing. The government essentially allows grad students to borrow any amount to cover tuition and living costs, with few guardrails on how the final sum will be repaid.

More than a third of borrowers from one of the government’s main graduate school lending programs have enrolled in some form of federal loan-forgiveness plan.

“These are choices. We’re not coercing,” said Avishai Sadan, dean of USC’s Herman Ostrow School of Dentistry, where Mr. Meru went to school and one of the most expensive in the U.S. “You know exactly what you’re getting into.”

Even the best planners might not have anticipated the sharp increases in tuition and student-loan interest rates from 2005 to 2012, Mr. Meru’s tenure as a student. While the Federal Reserve was reducing interest rates to near zero to combat the recession, rates for grad students were as high as 8.5%.

Dental school is the costliest higher-education program in the U.S. Private nonprofit schools during the 2015-2016 school year charged an average of $71,820 a year, the Urban Institute found. The USC program now costs $91,000 a year, and $137,000 when living expenses are included.

For Mr. Meru, tuition at USC first went up during his second year. Interest rates followed. Halfway through dental school, he said, he started to worry about the soaring cost of his education.

“I’m sitting here saying, ‘Holy crap! Should I really be doing this?’ ” Mr. Meru recalled. “ ‘Should I drop out?’ ”

Mrs. Meru, 35, said she and her husband decided it was too late to turn back. If he quit or transferred to a cheaper school, he still owed for the loans he had already taken.

Mr. Meru’s financial records—provided to The Wall Street Journal—show he borrowed $601,506, a debt that swelled to more than $1 million by fees and interest.

The USC education helped Mr. Meru earn $225,000 last year working for a corporate practice in Draper, Utah, 20 minutes from Salt Lake City. That compares with a $158,000 median income for dentists, according to the Labor Department.

Mr. Meru became so frustrated with the high interest rates that he helped start a national dental-student movement to lobby Congress to lower rates on grad students. The effort went nowhere.

Some dental school educators fear that the eye-popping costs to enter the profession could dissuade good prospects from even trying.

“I don’t think you’ll find any dental school dean in the country who will not tell you they’re concerned about the cost,” said Dr. Sadan, of USC. “But what’s the action?”

Debt free
Mr. Meru, a lean 6-foot-7, was the eldest of three boys raised in Newbury Park, Calif., an affluent suburb west of Los Angeles. His father, who didn’t finish college, owns a small construction business. His mother, a college graduate, worked mostly as a secretary.

Mr. Meru found his calling while still a teenager. He was insecure over his crooked teeth and an irregular jaw line, he said: “I was embarrassed to talk to girls. Orthodontics changed my life.”

After high school, Mr. Meru, who is Mormon, spent two years on a mission in Brazil, then returned to the U.S. to complete his undergraduate degree at Brigham Young University in Utah. He paid his college tuition with money from his parents and by waiting tables at the Old Spaghetti Factory near the school’s Provo campus.

Helping pay for college was “the agreement we made all our boys,” his mother, Karen Meru, said. Graduate school wasn’t part of the deal. “We couldn’t afford it,” she said. “We’re middle class.”

Mr. Meru met and married his wife while at Brigham Young, and he graduated debt-free in 2005. He picked the USC dental school for its prestige and because he wanted to live closer to his parents.

Mr. Meru said the dental school’s financial-aid director, Sergio Estavillo, estimated that the basic four-year program would require $400,000 to $450,000 in student debt, including interest. Mr. Estavillo said he didn’t recall the conversation but had no reason to doubt its accuracy.

Mr. Meru and his wife concluded dental school was a good investment, given the salary he expected to earn.

“We’re like, ‘Well, we can make this work,’” Mrs. Meru said. “There are certain things that are OK to go into debt for: a house, an education, a car.”

The newlyweds packed up for California. Mrs. Meru got a job at USC as an administrative assistant, which provided a tuition discount.

The couple’s calculations were partly based on low interest rates the federal government set for students at the time. In the 2004-2005 school year, the rate for college and graduate students was 2.77%.

The following school year, Mr. Meru’s first at USC, rates jumped to 4.75% for his loans. Those turned out to be the cheapest of the 50 loans he needed to finance his education. Unlike consumer loans for cars or homes, college students typically take out multiple loans each year—often at different interest rates, depending on what is available.

USC charged tuition of $56,757 in Mr. Meru’s first year, American Dental Association records show. To save on expenses, the couple lived with his parents. He drove a Buick inherited from his wife’s grandmother for the hour-plus trip between Newbury Park and USC, located south of downtown Los Angeles. After his first year, and with his wife’s tuition discount, he owed $43,976.

By Mr. Meru’s second year, the interest rate on new student loans jumped to 6.8%, and USC raised its tuition by 6%. By the end of that school year, he had taken out a total of $115,000 in loans, which also covered a summer semester. Interest rates were roughly triple what he had planned for.

A law passed by Congress in 2001, which took effect in 2006, severed the link that tethered student-loan interest rates to Treasury rates. Lawmakers were under pressure to lower costs for undergraduates, in the form of grants and lower loan rates. They didn’t provide similar relief for grad students.

During Mr. Meru’s third year of dental school, USC raised its tuition another 6%, and he had accumulated about $230,000 in loans, not counting interest.

Dr. Sadan, the dean, said the USC dental school raised tuition to cover the cost of delivering a top education. “You cannot decide you’re just not raising tuition,” he said. “Everything that drives the operation, from salary raises to any other additional costs, have to come, for the most part, from tuition.”

Mr. Estavillo, the financial-aid director, emailed Mr. Meru a flier from a dental association in 2007 that warned of large debt balances. It encouraged students to cut back on rent and lattes.

Great Lakes Higher Education Corp., which serviced Mr. Meru’s loans, sent him an email warning how quickly interest builds while in school. “If you can afford interest payments,” the email said, “it’s a good idea to make them.”

Giving grace
Most of Mr. Meru’s debt came from Grad Plus, a program created by Congress in 2005. It removed loan limits and allowed grad students to borrow for any expense, including rent and other living costs. The law, signed by President George W. Bush, was intended to ease student reliance on private banks, which had more strict repayment plans.

After living with his parents for 15 months, Mr. Meru and his wife moved to a one-bedroom apartment in Los Angeles with a monthly rent of $1,550. When Mrs. Meru became pregnant in 2010, the couple paid $1,800 for a two-bedroom.

One luxury was buying a used Mercedes-Benz, which carried a monthly payment of $390. Beyond that, Mr. Meru said, the couple restrained their spending. For fun, they went camping.

Mr. Meru said he spent 40 hours a week at school. He reserved evenings for studying and helping care for his young family, which left no time for a job.

By the spring of 2009, the end of his fourth year, Mr. Meru’s loans had reached about $340,000, still in line with the original estimates from the financial-aid director. That would change as he chased his dream.

After graduating from dental school that spring, Mr. Meru began orthodontics. Unlike doctors, who usually are paid to perform residencies at hospitals, dental specialists often perform their residency at universities that charge tuition.

For the next three years, Mr. Meru continued his studies at USC, and continued to borrow for tuition. Of his growing debt, he said, “I just wouldn’t look. The only thing looking did was create stress.”

After finishing the orthodontics residency in 2012, Mr. Meru used a government option known as forbearance, which allows borrowers to postpone payments. Mr. Meru said he earned little his first year out of school and needed all of it to support his family. Interest continued to accrue, expanding his debt through the magic of compounding.

The couple bought a home in Draper in 2012, using a $400,000 mortgage that Mrs. Meru took out in her name. She used an inheritance from her grandmother for the down payment. Her mother cosigned the loan.

Mr. Meru then entered into a government-sponsored repayment plan based on income. He agreed to monthly payments at 10% of his discretionary income, defined as adjusted gross income minus 150% of the poverty level. Any balance remaining after 25 years is forgiven, effectively covered by taxpayers. The forgiven amount is then taxed as ordinary income.

Without the government help, Mr. Meru’s monthly payment would be $10,541.91, according to an email from his loan servicer. His current monthly income, after taxes, is roughly $13,333.

Since refinancing his debt with the federal government in 2015, lowering the rate to 7.25%, Mr. Meru’s balance has grown by $148,948. It will keep growing through the 25-year life of the repayment plan until it reaches $2 million. That sum will be forgiven and, at current tax rates, could cost Mr. Meru more than $700,000 in income tax payments.

By then, Mr. Meru will have paid $1.6 million. That would be about the same as repaying his $600,000 in student loans at a rate of 4% over 25 years, said Jason Delisle, a student-loan expert with the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank. The biggest factor in Mr. Meru’s runaway debt, he said, was a high principal combined with long periods when Mr. Meru made no payments.

The government repayment plan affords the Meru family a comfortable life. Their home is on a mountain with panoramic views of the snow-capped peaks surrounding Salt Lake City. They take vacations, including a recent trip to Havana. He drives a used Tesla.

On a recent spring day he commuted to the suburb of Clinton, working out of one of his company’s five offices. In a room with views of the mountains and the strip mall parking lot, he saw a procession of teenage patients. For lunch, he went to the Panda Express next door.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-meru-has-1-million-in-student-loans-how-did-that-happen-1527252975

Here's another article on the subject: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-26/there-are-101-americans-over-1-million-student-loans

 

[C-2]

I think you have confused the new program (California College Promise) with Pell and Cal Grants. To be honest with you I don't know if the new program is even being funded yet. That's why I was asking in this thread. Here is what an article that I read had to say about the program.

The new law, AB19, allows for community colleges to cover tuition for all students, regardless of income. Its impact is uncertain, though — each community college will decide whether to use the money they receive under the law for that purpose.
https://edsource.org/2018/getting-free-college-tuition-in-california-a-quick-guide/599039

Correct. What used to be known as the Board of Governors Grant is now the CPP. You fill out FAFSA and specific Cali aid is determined from the FAFSA, thus the reason I referred to FAFSA as a "portal."

I too think CC is great and it's not just a 2-year deal any longer. You are encouraged to take as many CalState general ed classes as possible before transferring. For the HS kids, many CalState/Cal U general ed courses are satisfied at their HS via AP courses.

Returning to CC after 30-years was a total mindfuck, lol. In 1985 attending CC was a remedial process, whereas today it's a serious education track.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

If you want to be in charge of a large utility power plant you will need a college diploma. If you want to up the ladder from there that piece of paper is required.

With all due respect, no it isn't. I don't work for a large IOU, in smaller Munis and Co-Ops time in the field is more important than the sheepskin on the wall.

 

[TCHB]

I lot of parents should guide their children into areas that will pay off. Electrical engineer, doctor, nurse, cpa, finance, medical fields, and even

With all due respect, no it isn't. I don't work for a large IOU, in smaller Munis and Co-Ops time in the field is more important than the sheepskin on the wall.

I am glad you are doing well without your sheep skin. My advice to you if you have many years to work is go out and get your sheepskin. It will open more doors than you think.

 

[oldschool]

My kid did 2yrs of CC for his gen ed requirements out of the way then 2yrs UCLA to get his degree ... saved us some $$$ !

My oldest daughter is on the same path. She did 2 years of JC and starts at UCLA this fall.

 

[bowtiejunkie]

My kids are still in elementary school and I don't know anyone entering junior college for first time. I don't see anywhere that says AB 19 has been funded. I did see this on Modesto Junior College website:

AB 19 California College Promise

There has been misinformation disseminated about this bill. Please read for a current accurate update.

AB19 was approved by the governor on October 13, 2017, but has not been funded. Unless and until it is actually funded by the California Dept of Finance it won’t be implemented. You may read the full text of the bill here

If funded and implemented, AB19 would first take effect Fall 2018 for the 2018-2019 academic school year.

However, even if the bill IS funded, there is not a mandate that the college must use these funds to provide fee waivers to all first time full time students; the bill allows for each college to determine how to use the funds. A college may choose to use the funds in other ways that directly support our students while meeting the intent of the legislation. How our college will ultimately decide to utilize the funds, should they be approved, is an administrative decision that will be made 1) once the bill is actually funded and 2) once we are provided additional guidance from our State Chancellor’s Office. As yet there is no guidance and probably won’t be until the bill is actually funded.

Our best advice for our currently attending students is to be sure to file a 2018-2019 FAFSA application (www.fafsa.gov) or the CADAA if you have not done so already, because you may qualify for a fee waiver for the current school year, in addition to other sources of financial aid. If your FAFSA or CADAA indicates you have sufficient unmet financial need and you are a California resident or you are undocumented with AB540 residency status, you will automatically be provided a fee waiver under the existing fee waiver program!

It doesn't appear that it is 100% set in stone that the all first year full-time students will have tuition waived. I guess it remains to be seen what actually happens.

 

[78Southwind]

Correct. What used to be known as the Board of Governors Grant is now the CPP. You fill out FAFSA and specific Cali aid is determined from the FAFSA, thus the reason I referred to FAFSA as a "portal."

I too think CC is great and it's not just a 2-year deal any longer. You are encouraged to take as many CalState general ed classes as possible before transferring. For the HS kids, many CalState/Cal U general ed courses are satisfied at their HS via AP courses.

Returning to CC after 30-years was a total mindfuck, lol. In 1985 attending CC was a remedial process, whereas today it's a serious education track.

Ok that makes sense. It looks like the Board of Governors Grant is now the “California College Promise Grant” which is a part of the “California College Promise”. Changing it from a need based program to non-need based program. But there looks like the Community College has the freedom to implement their own program with the money.

This is some of the data from the Community College that is in my local District. I didn't post all of it but it looks like they are against it and want to implement something different.

What is the profile of students who would have their fees paid by College Promise grants?
Data Set
Students living within the Mt. SAC District
Students enrolled for Fall 2017 in 12 or more units
Students who are NOT eligible/receiving BOG Waivers
Students who are NOT receiving Pell Grants
Students who are NOT on probation
These “College Promise” students are compared to all credit students enrolled in Fall 2017.
NOTE: 68% of Mt. SAC students receive BOG Waivers

Comparison of All Credit Students to College Promise Students
7% gain for males and 7% decrease for females
Age 19 or less increases from 28% of all credit students to 42% of Promise students
Asians increase from 19% to 33% and Latinos/as drop from 63% to 48%
Those with income >$50 K up from 21% to 45%
Increase in students living in Walnut and Diamond Bar

Summary of Comparison of College Promise to All Credit Students
Compared to all credit students, the College Promise students represent:
A higher percentage of males
A younger population
A higher percentage of Asians and lower percentage of Latinos/as
A higher income
More living in Walnut & Diamond Bar.
NOTE: These are not Mt. SAC students who are most challenged to complete college.



https://www.ccleague.org/sites/defa...he_california_college_promise_ab_19_-_ppt.pdf

 

[Ouderkirk]

So I am just wondering if anyone has kids (or yourself) will be attending Community College this coming semester? I read last year that New York was tuition free (2 and 4 years schools) and it looks like California is now tuition free for the first year for new students (2 year schools only).

Edit: Added the Bill https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB19

AB 19, Santiago. Community colleges: California College Promise.
Existing law establishes the California Community Colleges, under the administration of the Board of Governors of the California Community Colleges, as one of the segments of public postsecondary education in this state. Existing law authorizes the establishment of community college districts under the administration of community college governing boards, and authorizes these districts to provide instruction at community college campuses throughout the state. Existing law requires community college district governing boards to charge students an enrollment fee of $46 per unit per semester. Existing law requires the board of governors to waive this fee for students meeting prescribed requirements.
This bill would establish the California College Promise, to be administered by the Chancellor of the California Community Colleges, which shall distribute funding, upon appropriation by the Legislature, to each community college meeting prescribed requirements to be used to, among other things, accomplish specified policy goals and waive fees for one academic year for first-time students who are enrolled in 12 or more semester units or the equivalent at the college and complete and submit either a Free Application for Federal Student Aid or a California Dream Act application.

NY is not free. After they graduate, students who received the scholarship must live and work in New York for the same number of years they received funding. If they leave the state, their scholarship will be converted into a no-interest loan.

 

[78Southwind]

Well it looks like my local college Mt. SAC implemented the program.

Enroll NOW for Summer 2019
The Mt. SAC Promise+Plus program is a combination of services to help first-time students access the life-changing benefits of a college education, whether to get career training, earn a degree or transfer credits to a university.

Apply now for Summer enrollment and sign up for the STEP Into College program.


Free Promise+Plus Benefits
for first-time college students

• • FREE $250 Book Grant
  • FREE $100 Food Card
  • FREE Laptop Loan
  • FREE from Mandatory Fees
  • FREE Bus Pass 24/7 on Foothill Transit lines
  • FREE Mountie Gear and School Supplies

 

[78Southwind]

Looks like Cerritos College pushed it out to 2 years free.