Building water ski's

[Oz Dude]

Oh good, now he's gonna send me the blanks to sand

Oz

 

[whiteworks]

So after searching the web for an hour looking for information on waterski construction I found a link back to this thread. looks like were writing the book as we go on this one.

 

[Oz Dude]

I hope your penmanship is top notch then. Ok everyone, there WILL be a test at the end so pay attention

Oz

 

[Howardflat]

If you have everything do you have an Orbitor laying around?

Sorry no orbitor. have about 15 square back blanks and 2 race skis. prolly have the jigs for an orbitor.

 

[River Lynchmob]

Sorry no orbitor. have about 15 square back blanks and 2 race skis. prolly have the jigs for an orbitor.

nice maybe WW can make them work ;-)

 

[Retired Member]

There were some aspects of these skis construction that I would definitely like to incorporate in a play ski.

Like what? No one uses those skis any longer do to the "modern" construction techniques. The newer constrution techniques, multi layer laminations, help with ridgidity. The stiffer the ski, the easier, and more fun, it is to ski on.

 

[whiteworks]

Sorry no orbitor. have about 15 square back blanks and 2 race skis. prolly have the jigs for an orbitor.

Maybe we could colaberate on something?

nice maybe WW can make them work ;-)

I would love a shot at it

Like what? No one uses those skis any longer do to the "modern" construction techniques. The newer constrution techniques, multi layer laminations, help with ridgidity. The stiffer the ski, the easier, and more fun, it is to ski on.

I liked the 1/4" thick top layer (red part in pics) Seems like added insurance form breaking right in front of the binding. Also the Skeg was pinned all the way through from the sides, front of skeg and rear of skeg intead of just being screwed down from the top. All in all I think I am some what ready to start doing something in the shop. I am curios about spring back when the ski is released from the press. I know when doing stair rails that you put a little more bend than you nee because of sprinback. wondering if it will be the same with a ski. If so the press will need a little more bend than what the ski will end up with. I pretty much have the construction of the press figured out in my head and am ready to try something. If you can get me that HO you want I'll give it a go. Also anyone have a line on some single layer marine ply? I can cut my own material on the bansaw but for now I would like to streamline the process and get something under you to try out.

 

[Howardflat]

Maybe we could colaberate on something?

I would love a shot at it


I liked the 1/4" thick top layer (red part in pics) Seems like added insurance form breaking right in front of the binding. Also the Skeg was pinned all the way through from the sides, front of skeg and rear of skeg intead of just being screwed down from the top. All in all I think I am some what ready to start doing something in the shop. I am curios about spring back when the ski is released from the press. I know when doing stair rails that you put a little more bend than you nee because of sprinback. wondering if it will be the same with a ski. If so the press will need a little more bend than what the ski will end up with. I pretty much have the construction of the press figured out in my head and am ready to try something. If you can get me that HO you want I'll give it a go. Also anyone have a line on some single layer marine ply? I can cut my own material on the bansaw but for now I would like to streamline the process and get something under you to try out.

I have some wood here at the house that we used, ready to be thrown in the mold.

 

[hobo]

Dylan, I will make you stainless steel fins for nothin $$$:thumbsup:thumbsup

 

[whiteworks]

I have some wood here at the house that we used, ready to be thrown in the mold.

Lets make it happen:thumbsup

Dylan, I will make you stainless steel fins for nothin $$$:thumbsup:thumbsup

Sweet

 

[Oz Dude]

Alright, you've had a whole weekend and then some - what's the progress????????

Oz

 

[whiteworks]

Alright, you've had a whole weekend and then some - what's the progress????????

Oz

Homework, lots of homework. I went a toured a local skatboard manufacturing facility today. Deffinately learned some stuff about lamination processes. Most likely make a mold sometime soon and start doing some mock layups.

 

[Oz Dude]

Most likely make a mold sometime soon

Like what, August??? C'MON!!!!!!!!!!

Oz

 

[Crazyhippy]

Here are some pics of an Old Murdoch Race Ski. It's 78" long and until just now, i thought it was flat aside from the tip. Turns out it has a very mild rocker to it. When it's set flat, the tip and tail are about 3/16" up, while under the boots is "flat" on the table.

Looks like it was 3 layers the length of the ski, w/ an extra layer @ the boots. The extra layer starts 9" from the tail, and extends to 62" from the tail. The taper @ the back is over 7" and the "stinger" @ the front is 20" long.

The nose of the ski starts it's kick up @ 67". It is ~4.25" tall.

Just some more info, i know you aren't looking to make exact replicas, but i know this one works.

 

[Oz Dude]

Good Pics Crazyhippy and good info on the little subtleties on the ski.

Hey WW, I looked at my ski at home over the weekend - 7 layers, all of equal thickness, and all run the length of the ski... Just some more info for da project :thumbsup

Oz

 

[stevel]

hello i have made two water skis e mail me at [email protected] with your phone number and can tell you what i did it is not hard just takes time

 

[obnoxious001]

Here are some pics of an Old Murdoch Race Ski. It's 78" long and until just now, i thought it was flat aside from the tip. Turns out it has a very mild rocker to it. When it's set flat, the tip and tail are about 3/16" up, while under the boots is "flat" on the table.

Looks like it was 3 layers the length of the ski, w/ an extra layer @ the boots. The extra layer starts 9" from the tail, and extends to 62" from the tail. The taper @ the back is over 7" and the "stinger" @ the front is 20" long.

The nose of the ski starts it's kick up @ 67". It is ~4.25" tall.

Just some more info, i know you aren't looking to make exact replicas, but i know this one works.

When Dick Murdoch was making those skis, they were the state of the art. I think that not many people would race on them now days, perhaps good for kids starting out. Maha's and others start about 84" up to 88" or so.

At one time, I was going to try to shorten a Murdoch to 70" to be legal for "Pro Social" class, but the island in the center kept me from figuring a good way to do it, since the bindings would not have a full platform to mount on if they moved forward. Might be fun to build a 70" model that could be used for recreational skiing, and still allow you to try that raised island design if you designed it so the bindings could be properly located.

What do you think Dylan?

 

[skifaster]

Mike Bemis has used the island design for years. You may want to talk to him as he decided to stop using it and was glad he did. This was about two years ago that he told me he can't believe he didn't stop doing the island sooner. I believe it is a lot easier to do it without the island and now many racing ski's are much thicker that I don't think the island provides any benefit.

 

[lebel409]

I just saw this....bastards.

A lot of the old cypress gardens type skiis used phillipine mahogany.

I'd forget the marine grade plywood...just birch with the urea formaldehyde glue.

You've already found vacuum forming so forget the press.

I'd like to see some though given to the weight of the skier vs the thickness vs the length. It seems to me a heavier skier would want a thicker/or/stiffer ski for a reaction similar to a lighter skier.

Think through the bottom...hard maple rails...

Think through the center...more plys would be stiffer...spruce, philipine mahogony, ash...remember the old G&S skateboards? Wood and fiberglass laminated together...thin and tough

And then finish it with some excellent inlay, maple, walnut, paduak, bubinga...go nuts.

I think I'd recess the skeg plate and use a backing plate on top, but not a drop through fin.

Screws hold well in plywood...there are many and not really holding that much...a nice SS T nut would do the job though.

Sounds like a fun project...you'll need some new shaper blades for the bottoms

I have a nice taperflex...and a friend that had screw together ski handles...with a skank in the boat that wanted to use the pretty ski...

She kept letting go of the handles and the metal screw together ends put a bunch of nickel sized gashes in the skiis. I used epoxy to fill in the dings and then an exterior epoxy the refinish (recommended by taperflex).

So either epoxy or resin finish...

 

[whiteworks]

hello i have made two water skis e mail me at [email protected] with your phone number and can tell you what i did it is not hard just takes time

Go ahead and post up some of your findings, As far as I'm concerned getting a group consensus on all techniques will speed up the trial and error process.

When Dick Murdoch was making those skis, they were the state of the art. I think that not many people would race on them now days, perhaps good for kids starting out. Maha's and others start about 84" up to 88" or so.

At one time, I was going to try to shorten a Murdoch to 70" to be legal for "Pro Social" class, but the island in the center kept me from figuring a good way to do it, since the bindings would not have a full platform to mount on if they moved forward. Might be fun to build a 70" model that could be used for recreational skiing, and still allow you to try that raised island design if you designed it so the bindings could be properly located.

What do you think Dylan?

I think that what ever you guys want to try is cool, i am going to make the molds long so that i can lay up different length skis. i think that the rocker will be the biggy to experiment with once i master the construction techniques.

Mike Bemis has used the island design for years. You may want to talk to him as he decided to stop using it and was glad he did. This was about two years ago that he told me he can't believe he didn't stop doing the island sooner. I believe it is a lot easier to do it without the island and now many racing ski's are much thicker that I don't think the island provides any benefit.

Interesting, I have noticed that the newer race skis are pretty thick, I hope to have a few skis ready for you guys to mess around on by the puddingstone deal in September.

I just saw this....bastards.

A lot of the old cypress gardens type skiis used phillipine mahogany.

I'd forget the marine grade plywood...just birch with the urea formaldehyde glue.

You've already found vacuum forming so forget the press.

I'd like to see some though given to the weight of the skier vs the thickness vs the length. It seems to me a heavier skier would want a thicker/or/stiffer ski for a reaction similar to a lighter skier.

Think through the bottom...hard maple rails...

Think through the center...more plys would be stiffer...spruce, philipine mahogony, ash...remember the old G&S skateboards? Wood and fiberglass laminated together...thin and tough

And then finish it with some excellent inlay, maple, walnut, paduak, bubinga...go nuts.

I think I'd recess the skeg plate and use a backing plate on top, but not a drop through fin.

Screws hold well in plywood...there are many and not really holding that much...a nice SS T nut would do the job though.

Sounds like a fun project...you'll need some new shaper blades for the bottoms

I have a nice taperflex...and a friend that had screw together ski handles...with a skank in the boat that wanted to use the pretty ski...

She kept letting go of the handles and the metal screw together ends put a bunch of nickel sized gashes in the skiis. I used epoxy to fill in the dings and then an exterior epoxy the refinish (recommended by taperflex).

So either epoxy or resin finish...

I don't think the vacuum deal is gonna do the trick for water skis, It seems that the real strength and stiffness comes from high pressure lay up. I am working out some designs for making my own economical press. First and foremost is to make a safe, strong, stiff ski. Once I figure that out, next will be getting the rocker, length and shape figured out. At that point I will get all crazy n shit with the cosmetic aspects.

 

[Oz Dude]

Hey Dylan,

You're on the right path. Make some ugly ones first, perfect your technique, then make pretty ones later.

I would suggest you also figure out some sort of "flexo-gauge". What I mean by that is you need to figure out how much pressure is required to flex the ski say 1" when supported only at the front and back. From there you can start to figure out what different materials, number of layers, and overall thicknesses do to the structural rigidity of the ski, as well as the effect of longer skis verses shorter when made of the same material. To save making too many blanks to begin with, you could make em longer, do the tests, then progressibely cut them down in 3" increments and retest. This will then allow you to work out a rough chart so you can say "A 200lb skier will need a ski with X properties" and so on.

Just more for the mix :thumbsup

Oz

 

[obnoxious001]

Hey Dylan

Everyone is telling you what you should do,, why don't you make yourself the first one as a play ski for yourself, that you can keep forever as the first ski you made?

 

[whiteworks]

Hey Dylan

Everyone is telling you what you should do,, why don't you make yourself the first one as a play ski for yourself, that you can keep forever as the first ski you made?

Barry that is exactly what I am gonna do, I started on the mold the other day. I am gonna lay up a few and do different things to the bottom and play with the taper a bit and see what happens.

 

[Oz Dude]

I studied one of my mate's Maha's last night. It's a full on race ski.

The bottom is totally flat. There is only a slight taper from the nose to the tail and it is made up of 5 thick layers of Ash.

The bevel is at 45 degrees and is shaped on the bottom layer of timber ie the lamination to the next layer is where the bevel stops.

I didn't have a tape measure with me so I can't give you measurements. Can follow that up later with you once you've played around a bit anyway.

How's the jigs going??

Oz

 

[whiteworks]

I studied one of my mate's Maha's last night. It's a full on race ski.

The bottom is totally flat. There is only a slight taper from the nose to the tail and it is made up of 5 thick layers of Ash.

The bevel is at 45 degrees and is shaped on the bottom layer of timber ie the lamination to the next layer is where the bevel stops.

I didn't have a tape measure with me so I can't give you measurements. Can follow that up later with you once you've played around a bit anyway.

How's the jigs going??

Oz

The jig is coming along, I cut out most of the pieces and it is almost ready to assemble. I am thinking about using some malamine for the parts that will contact the ski, my thinking is it will make it easy to scrape the excess glue off.

 

[obnoxious001]

Barry that is exactly what I am gonna do, I started on the mold the other day. I am gonna lay up a few and do different things to the bottom and play with the taper a bit and see what happens.

I studied one of my mate's Maha's last night. It's a full on race ski.

The bottom is totally flat. There is only a slight taper from the nose to the tail and it is made up of 5 thick layers of Ash.

The bevel is at 45 degrees and is shaped on the bottom layer of timber ie the lamination to the next layer is where the bevel stops.

I didn't have a tape measure with me so I can't give you measurements. Can follow that up later with you once you've played around a bit anyway.

How's the jigs going??

Oz

Dylan

If you want to drop by and look at some of my skis,, or measure or whatever,, get in touch, I am right at the 57 and 210. I have Maha 360's and a 84" Maha race ski, old school that I updated myself when I was racing by adding the bevel on the bottom, and another on the top of the ski from the bindings to the rear. Originally it was squared up,, with a pattern pressed into the side to try to keep it from sucking in on the turns.

 

[stevel]

When i biult my skis i layed wax paper on the bottom of the jig to keep the jig and ski from geting glued together.

 

[Oz Dude]

The jig is coming along, I cut out most of the pieces and it is almost ready to assemble. I am thinking about using some malamine for the parts that will contact the ski, my thinking is it will make it easy to scrape the excess glue off.

*Bing* that would be the memory bell ringing. Yup, that's what we had on our jigs. See - keep reminding me of stuff. It's all in there somewhere

Remember to take photos, lots of photos... No point in doing all of this and not documenting it!

Oz

 

[whiteworks]

Got after it today, figured what better day than the 4th of July to make the mold for an American made ski. Everything went together smooth as silk. I decided that I am going to laminate the mold with Formica so I still have a little bit left to do. I am gonna lay up some Luan and make a template out of it for later. I went ahead and threw a bit of rocker in, just seemed like the right thing to do. I strapped the mold together to let the glue dry and keep everything in place. Looking forward to the next steps:thumbsup

 

[River Lynchmob]

Got after it today, figured what better day than the 4th of July to make the mold for an American made ski. Everything went together smooth as silk. I decided that I am going to laminate the mold with Formica so I still have a little bit left to do. I am gonna lay up some Luan and make a template out of it for later. I went ahead and threw a bit of rocker in, just seemed like the right thing to do. I strapped the mold together to let the glue dry and keep everything in place. Looking forward to the next steps:thumbsup

Looks good D but I think you may have just a hair too much rocker in that thing.

 

[whiteworks]

Looks good D but I think you may have just a hair too much rocker in that thing.

I am thinking it might spring back a little when released from the mold. For the most part there is a slight rocker, and then right under the back foot to the tail it comes up a bit. Who knows:headscratch:, but were gonna find out Gotta start somewhere and for now this mold will at least let me practice construction techniques.

 

[obnoxious001]

I am thinking it might spring back a little when released from the mold. For the most part there is a slight rocker, and then right under the back foot to the tail it comes up a bit. Who knows:headscratch:, but were gonna find out Gotta start somewhere and for now this mold will at least let me practice construction techniques.

Hmm,, I would try one out!

 

[Crazyhippy]

Looks like alot less rocker than a modern bouy chaser.

Good to see production moving forward:champagne:

 

[Oz Dude]

Hi Mate,

Wow, awesome progress!!

Hmmm, you really COULD read my drawings then

Can't wait to see how it comes out. No1 test needs a commemoration so you'd better get your best black marking pen and write "No1 Test" on a bit of paper and get someone to photograph you with it. It's not everyday that someone starts making skis you know!

Oz :thumbsup

 

[Crazyhippy]

So????

Or is all your time going into a wood deck 10' Schiada now:skull

 

[whiteworks]

So????

Or is all your time going into a wood deck 10' Schiada now:skull

I have been doing my honey do's around the house (quite an extensive list) anyways there will be some progress on the ski project in the next couple of weeks. As far a wood deck 10'er there has been talk but that is all for now.

 

[Oz Dude]

Arms Folded...Foot Tapping...

Progress????

Oz

 

[RyanPartridge]

I'm way stoked on this project.

 

[footndale]

Experimented with making some basic skis. Laminated ash worked well, but my tester had the ski hit by a boat and it broke. Tried some cheaper materials, hardwood plywood with top and bottom formica laminate. It worked, but the ski would sink. Now that ski season it closer to ending, it's time to experiment again. Unfortunately, I don't own a band saw to resaw wood for laminations.

I have cut the shape before I laminated. I would be interested on how people cut the shape after the lamination process. What does a jig look like that you can cut around the curve?

Taperflex or Dick Pope Jr skis are great templates for combo templates.


Dwight

 

[Oz Dude]

The skis my father used to make were all rectangular blanks and then shaped with a router using a jig made to fit over the blank and cut from underneath.

I think the jig was also adjustable to change the forebody shape on the ski to suit individual requirements.

I'm surprised you guys don't have suppliers of single lamination sheets.

Oz

 

[lebel409]

Dwight...where are you located? I have a bandsaw that needs some time put on it...

Ozdude...not much available thats 1/4' or 3/16"...mostly 1/32" veneers or pre made plywood.

Maybe I need to look harder...

 

[Oz Dude]

That kinda blows me away. I would've thought you guys would have an extensive range of stuff like that to choose from.

Hope you can find a decent supplier...

Oz

 

[whiteworks]

I found a bunch of 1/8" Bass wood sheets, but I dont think that would be strong enough. Looking like the band saw is gonna get some action. I am actually thinking about steaming the pieces and pre bending the material before lay up. I have to get in the shop and start messing around.

 

[Howardflat]

I have quite a bit of wood that we used to make skis at my house. When we cut skis after they were pressed we used a formica piece shaped as the ski to make a outline to ruff follow with a band saw, then we had a blank ski that they clamped in place and routered it from the bottom for the final cut. ( im pretty sure since it was when i was like 1 years old since my grandfather last made skis.) Im sure the concave on the bottom is going to give you some serious trouble. i have a big jig for that as well, got a good idea but dont know how to use it.

 

[steamin rice]

I had an Andy Clark ski made about 15 years ago and I believe it was made out of Poplar. Don't know if that helps you at all, but just thought I'd relay the info.

 

[Howardflat]

Well whats the latest!?

 

[RiverDave]

Yeah no shit Dylan.. What's going on with this?

RD

 

[Crazyhippy]

He's too busy Hawking 100 year old cash registers to deal w/ making skis.:champagne:

 

[whiteworks]

Nothing much, have not been in the mood its fuckin hot, When it cools down a bit I'll head down to the shop and start messing around. Unless I am getting paid you wont see me there. This was supposed to be an "enjoyable" hobby.

 

[whiteworks]

Im sure the concave on the bottom is going to give you some serious trouble. i have a big jig for that as well, got a good idea but dont know how to use it.

I sorta have the concave figured out, all the older skis I have looked at used a table saw. Some of the newer ones most likely a custom shaper knife was used. Shoot a pic of your Jig and I'm sure I can figure it out by looking at it.