Brakes For The Raptor - Go Stock Or Upgrade?

[Runs2rch]

Longer upper and lower control arms for more front wheel travel, and pricey shocks all around for starters…

I’m in a similar boat, building up my paid-for truck versus buying new.

Yup. Want vs need vs being responsible haha

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yup. Want vs need vs being responsible haha

I’m all in on a Raptor, they look great. But for something that is just going to go down a graded dirt road once in awhile at best, I’ll just throw a $3k set of King shocks on the “regular” truck and achieve the same or better ride than a Raptor 99.9% of the time.

 

[pronstar]

Yup. Want vs need vs being responsible haha

Yeah my wants of cutting my truck in half to make it a pre-runner vs need to retain cash for endless house upgrades while the boys are still young…

First world problems LOL

 

[Runs2rch]

I’m all in on a Raptor, they look great. But for something that is just going to go down a graded dirt road once in awhile at best, I’ll just throw a $3k set of King shocks on the “regular” truck and achieve the same or better ride than a Raptor 99.9% of the time.

Agree. That is how I did my wife's truck. Same power pretty much, better mileage, and higher tow capacity. Also doesn't sound like a wet fart.

I don't get Ford. They never use what they have in the parts bin. Raptor with a 3.5 and 5.0 option is all they needed to do for the regular masses.

 

[rivermobster]

I've always found it interesting how not one single time in my long life can I recall any service writer or mechanic advise me to perform any type of "Bedding In". Same goes for new car purchases, which often results in purchasing one that's been 'Test driven' by another prior to us receiving it.
Is it in any owner's manual ? I don't recall seeing it. Other than for our Wildcat XX, directions for performing it were included, probably first time I'd read that in a manual.

I've always done it, but certainly not for 200 to 300 miles as I've read some suggesting.

I Always advised my customers to do that.

If you don't (as a mechanic) you'll be facing a customer complaining about brake squeal real soon.

My favorite complaints were...

Working at Lexus: I have a BMW and a Lexus. My BMW never had a brake squeek!

Working at BMW: I have Lexus and a BMW. My Lexus never had a brake squeek!

Fun times.

 

[BigAl96]

I'm running the Power stop Z36 kit on my raptor and they've been great. I regularly pull my Nordic lightning and 28' enclosed car hauler with mine and have no complaints. If money was no object though I would probably go with the Alcon front and rear big brake kit.

 

[86403]

Yes, you're correct in that the Gen2 braking performance seems far superior to the Gen 1 trucks. I've had a '14, '17 & am in a '19 now. The '14 drove and rode like a truck and the Gen2's drive & ride like a car. The live valve shocks on the '19 rides like I had hoped/imagined the Gen 1's would before I ever drove or rode in one. IMO the Gen 1's were a huge disappointment from a suspension point of view for the cost of these trucks. I'm sure they performed superior in off-road conditions as they were designed for compared to other production vehicles, but they ride terrible on road from what you would expect of one, or at least mine did.

WWW:
Gen 1.5 Raptor 60-0 in 170ft
Gen 2 Raptor 60-0 in 130ft

A gen 1.5 Raptor checks all the boxes for me except for the braking. What do the RDP braking experts recommend if anything to improve it?

TIA

 

[Fabhouse]

Never owned, but long termed a 2014 Raptor.
Owned 2017 Raptor for 40000 miles.
Currently own 2019 Raptor, 10000 miles so far.
Gen 2 is superior in every way, except sound. If you can get past the V6 sound, it's a far better truck. I have driven the Gen 3, sound is better-more Nissan GTR, less Honda.
2017 vs 2019, live valve shocks are a bit better, less body roll, better in chop (short travel, high shaft speed).
Power wise, the 3.5 is a night and day improvement from the 6.2. Towing is better, acceleration is better, mileage-same. 15-16 hwy at 85, 13 fwy @ 80, 12.5 average over 10k miles.
Brakes are really good. Great modulation and consistency, specifically driving down from Big Bear on the 38, at a spirited pace. (sometimes towing)
Are the Raptor brakes different than a standard F-150? Calipers look pretty standard, and a 17" wheel fits around them...

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

WWW:
Gen 1.5 Raptor 60-0 in 170ft
Gen 2 Raptor 60-0 in 130ft

A gen 1.5 Raptor checks all the boxes for me except for the braking. What do the RDP braking experts recommend if anything to improve it?

TIA

Stickier tires. More aggressive brake pads.

 

[mash on it]

Stickier tires. More aggressive brake pads.

And larger rotors.
Physics ya know?

Dan'l

 

[lbhsbz]

And larger rotors.
Physics ya know?

Dan'l

Unless overheating is an issue, larger rotors won’t really accomplish a whole lot.

We don’t want to upset the stock bias too much unless we’ve made significant changes to the vehicle. With a BBK, typically when increasing the effective radius of the rotor, we reduce the piston sizing so that on paper…brake torque for a given hydraulic pressure is the same.

It’s just more money…a more aggressive pad is $130ish, a BBK is $3K or more, and probably won’t fit under the wheels. Also, the stock rotor is almost 14". That's plenty big for most things

 

[lbhsbz]

Never owned, but long termed a 2014 Raptor.
Owned 2017 Raptor for 40000 miles.
Currently own 2019 Raptor, 10000 miles so far.
Gen 2 is superior in every way, except sound. If you can get past the V6 sound, it's a far better truck. I have driven the Gen 3, sound is better-more Nissan GTR, less Honda.
2017 vs 2019, live valve shocks are a bit better, less body roll, better in chop (short travel, high shaft speed).
Power wise, the 3.5 is a night and day improvement from the 6.2. Towing is better, acceleration is better, mileage-same. 15-16 hwy at 85, 13 fwy @ 80, 12.5 average over 10k miles.
Brakes are really good. Great modulation and consistency, specifically driving down from Big Bear on the 38, at a spirited pace. (sometimes towing)
Are the Raptor brakes different than a standard F-150? Calipers look pretty standard, and a 17" wheel fits around them...

Raptor brakes are the same as the standard F150…the ABS / Traction control software might be different, but the parts are the same.

 

[lbhsbz]

WWW:
Gen 1.5 Raptor 60-0 in 170ft
Gen 2 Raptor 60-0 in 130ft

A gen 1.5 Raptor checks all the boxes for me except for the braking. What do the RDP braking experts recommend if anything to improve it?

TIA

TP1414 - Truck Performance Brake Pads, Front

Our most aggressive formula. Aggressive initial bite and high torque into elevated temp ranges, this is a great pad for lifted vehicles with added weight and larger than stock tires and applications that need more brute force stopping power. Fitment (front): Ford Expedition: 2010 - 2021...

autobrakesolutions.com

With all the F150 owners in here....I'm amazed I haven't sold 10 sets of these in the last few days.

I guess I need to put my money where my mouth is....First one to PM me gets a set sent to them on the house. If you feel the improvement is worth the $129, then pay for 'em....if not, keep them and do with them as you please.

 

[Runs2rch]

TP1414 - Truck Performance Brake Pads, Front

Our most aggressive formula. Aggressive initial bite and high torque into elevated temp ranges, this is a great pad for lifted vehicles with added weight and larger than stock tires and applications that need more brute force stopping power. Fitment (front): Ford Expedition: 2010 - 2021...

autobrakesolutions.com

With all the F150 owners in here....I'm amazed I haven't sold 10 sets of these in the last few days.

I guess I need to put my money where my mouth is....First one to PM me gets a set sent to them on the house. If you feel the improvement is worth the $129, then pay for 'em....if not, keep them and do with them as you please.

Not ready for brakes on ours yet, but when I am you will be my go to.

I like the fancy guarantee right there on the box! Haha

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Unless overheating is an issue, larger rotors won’t really accomplish a whole lot.

We don’t want to upset the stock bias too much unless we’ve made significant changes to the vehicle. With a BBK, typically when increasing the effective radius of the rotor, we reduce the piston sizing so that on paper…brake torque for a given hydraulic pressure is the same.

It’s just more money…a more aggressive pad is $130ish, a BBK is $3K or more, and probably won’t fit under the wheels. Also, the stock rotor is almost 14". That's plenty big for most things

Yep.. that’s what most people don’t realize.

 

[WhatExit?]

I’m all in on a Raptor, they look great. But for something that is just going to go down a graded dirt road once in awhile at best, I’ll just throw a $3k set of King shocks on the “regular” truck and achieve the same or better ride than a Raptor 99.9% of the time.

So you're saying that a Ford Raptor's ride can be duplicated or improved upon simply by "throwing a $3k set of King shocks" on an F150?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

So you're saying that a Ford Raptor's ride can be duplicated or improved upon simply by "throwing a $3k set of King shocks" on an F150?

In the mall parking lot.. yes

I guess you think there is some magical Foxy Ford fairy dust that you can’t attain that they sprinkle into and on the Raptor shocks?

You been in a half ton with Gucci suspension? They ride better than a Gen 2 Raptor on the road.

 

[WhatExit?]

In the mall parking lot.. yes

That's not what you posted

 

[Runs2rch]

So you're saying that a Ford Raptor's ride can be duplicated or improved upon simply by "throwing a $3k set of King shocks" on an F150?

Rear Deaver's also.

 

[WhatExit?]

Rear Deaver's also.

There's more to a Raptor's ride than King shocks and Deavers in the rear

 

[Runs2rch]

In the mall parking lot.. yes

I guess you think there is some magical Foxy Ford fairy dust that you can’t attain that they sprinkle into and on the Raptor shocks?

You been in a half ton with Gucci suspension? They ride better than a Gen 2 Raptor on the road.

Also in my opinion the 17/18 before the Live Valves rode better.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

That's not what you posted

That’s exactly what I posted Dan. Read it again.

 

[Runs2rch]

There's more to a Raptor's ride than King shocks and Deavers in the rear

Here we go haha. The Gladiator is the best mid size truck also right?!

 

[Runs2rch]

That’s exactly what I posted Dan. Read it again.

Damn it!

Now he's going to copy and paste a bunch of shit. Haha!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

There's more to a Raptor's ride than King shocks and Deavers in the rear

Since you are a vehicle dynamics engineer, do tell us what contributes to a vehicles ride more than the shocks and springs .

Especially in a Gen 1 and 2 Raptor that have the same basic suspension configuration and geometry front and rear to a “regular” truck.

 

[Runs2rch]

Since you are a vehicle dynamics engineer, do tell us what contributes to a vehicles ride more than the shocks and springs .

Especially in a Gen 1 and 2 Raptor that have the same basic suspension configuration and geometry front and rear to a “regular” truck.

Tires also. Don't forget the special 2 ply C rated Ford specific BFG's.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Tires also. Don't forget the special 2 ply C rated Ford specific BFG's.

How would I tow my Jet Ski with those?

 

[Runs2rch]

How would I tow my Jet Ski with those?

Wouldn't even consider it! Way too scary.

 

[pronstar]

Since you are a vehicle dynamics engineer, do tell us what contributes to a vehicles ride more than the shocks and springs .

Especially in a Gen 1 and 2 Raptor that have the same basic suspension configuration and geometry front and rear to a “regular” truck.

I think they also put longer upper/lower control arms for more travel?

 

[Runs2rch]

I think they also put longer upper/lower control arms for more travel?

Correct.

 

[WhatExit?]

Since you are a vehicle dynamics engineer, do tell us what contributes to a vehicles ride more than the shocks and springs .

Especially in a Gen 1 and 2 Raptor that have the same basic suspension configuration and geometry front and rear to a “regular” truck.

And you're off and running today...

 

[WhatExit?]

Correct.

Need longer shafts to go with the longer front control arms right?

 

[pronstar]

Good vid here:

 

[WhatExit?]

I’m all in on a Raptor, they look great. But for something that is just going to go down a graded dirt road once in awhile at best, I’ll just throw a $3k set of King shocks on the “regular” truck and achieve the same or better ride than a Raptor 99.9% of the time.

This is what you posted

 

[WhatExit?]

Since you are a vehicle dynamics engineer, do tell us what contributes to a vehicles ride more than the shocks and springs .

Especially in a Gen 1 and 2 Raptor that have the same basic suspension configuration and geometry front and rear to a “regular” truck.

Even you don't need to be a "vehicle dynamics engineer" to know the differences between an F150 and an F150 Raptor - why don't you tell us since you know everything?

 

[Runs2rch]

Need longer shafts to go with the longer front control arms right?

Standard cv's that are longer. Not stronger.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Former Gen 1 owner. Bought one set of brakes ever in 175k miles...then replaced them I think 3x under the duralast warranty .

 

[WhatExit?]

There's a whole list of different components - @LargeOrangeFont will enlighten us

 

[Waterjunky]

Raptor brakes are the same as the standard F150…the ABS / Traction control software might be different, but the parts are the same.

This is what I was asking about. Thanks LBHSBZ! Basically means leave the brakes alone even when I mess with the suspension.


Shocks, lift and tires are questions for another day. The usual fighters have already derailed this thread bad enough.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I think they also put longer upper/lower control arms for more travel?

Yes they do. But both trucks through Gen 2s are SLA up front with a strut and leafs a shocks in the back.

As you know, the longer travel in an of itself has very little to do with the ride on the street or mall parking lots… where most all Raptors live most if not all the time.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

There's a whole list of different components - @LargeOrangeFont will enlighten us

Enlightening tip of the day.. be hesitant taking suspension, braking, or business advice from Dan.

 

[WhatExit?]

Enlightening tip of the day.. be hesitant taking suspension, braking, or business advice from Dan.

And there's your usual passive aggressive response instead of continuing a conversation - it's what makes you so "popular" on RDP

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

And there's your usual passive aggressive response instead of continuing a conversation - it's what makes you so "popular" on RDP

I just took lessons from your wonderful examples yesterday Dan.

It’s time to let it go. Enjoy your day!

 

[WhatExit?]

I just took lessons from you wonderful examples yesterday Dan.

It’s time to let it go. Enjoy your day!

Again, this is your usual passive aggressive follow-up response - you insult someone and then respond with "kindness" by saying something like "it's time to let it go. Enjoy your day!"

 

[lbhsbz]

This is what I was asking about. Thanks LBHSBZ! Basically means leave the brakes alone even when I mess with the suspension.


Shocks, lift and tires are questions for another day. The usual fighters have already derailed this thread bad enough.

Maybe. There might be a different friction material used on the Raptor....I know the standard F150 and the Police pkg uses different friction. In the aftermarket, we order all the OEM samples for every new part number that comes up in OE cataloging. Then we open the boxes and ID them. We have an organization called the Friction Materials Standards Institute (FMSI) who assigns numbers to all the different backing plate shapes and friction puck shapes out there. Aftermarket manufacturers feed data to FMSI for them to catalog. If a sample shows up that doesn't already have an FMSI number in place, we'll send that sample, along with the OEM cataloging data to FMSI and they'll create a detailed drawing and catalog the part. The entire brake world operates using FMSI data.....that's why regardless of where you buy your pad for your F150....autozone, oreilly, me, whoever....for 2010-2020 everyones part number will have a "1414" in it somewhere. A few deviate from this, (mainly NAPA, because they use the friction puck numbers, not the backing plate numbers) or in cases of consolidations where there may be a newer version that works in place of the older version...some may switch to the newer number. Companies simply catalog the pads based on the shape/fitment, then make that available in whatever friction materials they have a available. No aftermarket materials will 100% match the OEM materials....and in cases where there may be 20 different submodels of the vehicle, each using it's own friction material in the same caliper with the same pad shape, the aftermarket will consolidate these into effectively one pad part number....offered in whatever versions/materials they have.

I avoid the budget and entry level pads....the rest of the internet can beat themselves up racing to the bottom on those. The difference in brake performance between the early and later Raptors very well might just be the friction material on the OEM pads....F150 brakes were otherwise the same from 2010-2020. Regardless, our TP pads are about the highest friction level material you're gonna find in a pad that operates properly at normal street temps and should be considered a performance upgrade regardless of what material was on the truck at the OE level. Our HD pads will be an OE equivalent.