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Bluewater Lagoon

USClb41

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So this is where I grew up going, we had a riverfront place just south of the Headgate Dam in Bluewater Lagoon, I am 51 for reference. We understood the level fluctuations and knew the river and limitations for I/O's, keep in mind we were running an 18' Southwind jet boat (which I wish I still had goddamnit). When my parents retired to Havasu we transitioned to a 21' Shockwave Skier, then a 25' Tremor for Havasu but I am now thinking of going back down to a 21' jet for the strip and lower river. My question is what is the quality of boating south of the strip? Parker south of Headgate, Big River, Blythe, Yuma? Thanks!
 

81Sprint

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Big River is one of my favorite stretches of river, just have to be mindful of water levels for sure. Blythe is also fun, 10 sandbar is always a good meeting spot and tons of lower river peeps to hang out with. Sandbars get more frequent as you head towards Yuma, my wife grew up going to Walters Camp and loved hanging out on the sandbars.

My Daytona on the 10 sandbar in Blythe-
1713981146452.png
 
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rivermobster

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Quality of boating?

We used to run out of Lost Lakes back in the day, and it was pretty much heaven down there.

Did you want to water ski, on glass, without an observer? Go for it. You could run for miles and not see another soul.

To me it was jet ski heaven. No idiots to worry about.

They used to have drag races Every weekend back in the day at LL. Not sure if they do that anymore?

It's quiet and peaceful. I doubt you'll see any wake tractors, it's far too shallow for those things for the most part.

It's nice. 👍🏼
 

GPR721

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I've had a trailer down in Blythe for the last 15 years between Hidden Beaches and The Cove. Lots of cool laid back people down there and plenty of places to run where its not crowded at all. A few of the hangout place are Jungle Beach, just south of Hidden Beaches, the sand bar north of the 10 bridge and Goose Flats about 7 miles south of the bridge back in a cove. If you head south past McIntyre towards Walters Camp there usually aren't a lot of boats down that way.

The last couple of years there have been a small amount of wake board boats, but usually that is in only a few areas due to the water depth. I haven't been up to the area past the diversion dam in years, but I think it is pretty much the same.
 

cofooter

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My sister has a place in Bluewater lagoon. There are times you have to wait for the water to come up and sometimes it doesn't come up, especially in fall/winter. Having said that, we'd often go down and spend the weekend with them (especially big weekends) when we were in Parker because it was so chill. Its a cool stretch of river without a lot of big boats, though there are more and more wakeboard boats then there were several years ago. My BIL has a jet and pontoon, and i've had my ski boat down there way south of big river before with no problems if you're with someone that knows the river.
 

warpt71

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Ill add that you will likely have the best boating experience in a 21 jet south of Parker. You could still cruise the strip in that same boat but it will be far less enjoyable IMO. I have a place at LL and everything that @rivermobster said is true. Not sure if the saturday night races will be active this year but there are some really fast boats in that park.
 

BoatCop

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I know this thread is about the River, itself, and not the Blue Water Lagoon Sub-division. But if you are considering buying in BWL, these are some things you need to know.

First and foremost, the Master Lease is set to expire in 2031. The Master Lease originally went to a developer, while the Tribes just sat back and collected the money from the developer. Several years ago, CRIT acquired the lease, along with that of Big River, and while the Master Lease(s) are still shown to be between the lessee (tenant) and lessor (developer), the lessor is now actually the Tribe, which is also the land owner.

CRIT is playing their cards close to the chest as to how they are going to handle renegotiation of the leases. There are a number of scenarios:

1. Cancel all leases across the board, and evict everyone in the subdivision. Those with trailers/manufactured homes, would have to either remove them or abandon them. Those with stick-built homes, garages, any "fixed to the ground" improvements would lose them, as anything built to the ground on leased land, becomes the property of the lessor (land owner).

2. Offer renegotiation to all property owners. In most cases, the leases apply to the land only. The tenants own the homes themselves, and only lease the lot. (see previous paragraph on stick and brick homes).

3. Screen all properties and prioritize lease negotiation to existing "modern" Mobile/Manufactured Homes, and negotiate with current tenants on the outdated, out of code, tin-can ramshackle, trailers to require that they be removed and/or updated to current codes. Those who choose not to negotiate can probably just walk away, but may still be required to remove "their" owned trailers. I suppose they could just be abandoned, but I'm sure the tribes would find a way to go after them for removal/disposal costs.

4. Buying out all owners trailers/Manufactured homes etc. turning it into leases for lot and homes and maintaining ownership of everything. This one is probably a no-go, as then CRIT would have to handle all residence maintenance, repairs, insurance, etc.

5. A fifth possibility is piggy-backing on scenario #1, merging lots, further zoning the property to different "levels", such as allowing a portion of the park to be site built, riverfront, maybe luxury homes. Other parts for Manufactured homes, maybe some multi-family duplexes/apartments/low income.

6. Cancel all leases, kick everyone out, give them a week to remove all personal property, and seizing all the homes. They are sovereign. You can't sue them. And you will have zip, nada, no recourse whatsoever. Just ask the Lower River, West Bank property "owners".

One thing to remember is that the $60 - $350 lot leases will be a thing of the past. I would look for riverfront lots to go for up to $1,500-$2,000 or more. Other desirable lots $750 - $1,000. Run of the mill lots, $500 - $750. These are all just my WAGs, and I have NO inside info on what they will charge or what they intend to do. The economy is still in question, so there's no telling what those costs could rise to, by the time 2031 rolls around.

The other thing to remember is to re-read #6. When dealing with an Indian Lease on Reservation land, ALWAYS make sure that the language of the lease has a blurb in it, something to the effect of:

"The Colorado River Indian Tribes agree to waive Sovereign Immunity in any dispute, regarding any subject contained in this lease agreement and/or subsequent amendment(s)."

Remember to consult an attorney, well versed in Indian and other applicable Federal Laws, to review any documents/agreements in ANY business matters with the Tribe. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING until it has been reviewed by said attorney.

Bottom line: Over the next few years, you will see the asking and sale prices of homes in Blue Water Lagoon, and other soon to expire Indian Leases, fall drastically. People are going to try and recoup SOMETHING before the leases expire, and some unsuspecting people are going to jump on them, only to possibly get screwed when the lease actually expires. Until/unless there is some kind of advance notice on what a new lease will entail, I, personally, would refrain from purchasing ANYTHING that falls under the current lease, unless you can afford to lose it all in 2031. Also note that Real Estate Title Agencies (which does handle MH transfers on Indian land) are now requiring valid Title, through AZ MVD, for all mobile home ownership transfers. It wasn't required when I bought my place down there in 2012, but DID need it when I sold it in 2020. So if anyone reading this with a place down there and planning to sell, don't wait for the last minute to find out you have to obtain a Title on something that probably was NEVER titled, or has changed hands multiple times without the "official" State Title being updated.

It's OK to gamble, but in this case, you'll get better odds putting your boat title on the table, at the place up over the Dam.
 
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cofooter

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I know this thread is about the River, itself, and not the Blue Water Lagoon Sub-division. But if you are considering buying in BWL, these are some things you need to know.

First and foremost, the Master Lease is set to expire in 2031. The Master Lease originally went to a developer, while the Tribes just sat back and collected the money from the developer. Several years ago, CRIT acquired the lease, along with that of Big River, and while the Master Lease(s) are still shown to be between the lessee (tenant) and lessor (developer), the lessor is now actually the Tribe, which is also the land owner.

CRIT is playing their cards close to the chest as to how they are going to handle renegotiation of the leases. There are a number of scenarios:

1. Cancel all leases across the board, and evict everyone in the subdivision. Those with trailers/manufactured homes, would have to either remove them or abandon them. Those with stick-built homes, garages, any "fixed to the ground" improvements would lose them, as anything built to the ground on leased land, becomes the property of the lessor (land owner).

2. Offer renegotiation to all property owners. In most cases, the leases apply to the land only. The tenants own the homes themselves, and only lease the lot. (see previous paragraph on stick and brick homes).

3. Screen all properties and prioritize lease negotiation to existing "modern" Mobile/Manufactured Homes, and negotiate with current tenants on the outdated, out of code, tin-can ramshackle, trailers to require that they be removed and/or updated to current codes. Those who choose not to negotiate can probably just walk away, but may still be required to remove "their" owned trailers. I suppose they could just be abandoned, but I'm sure the tribes would find a way to go after them for removal/disposal costs.

4. Buying out all owners trailers/Manufactured homes etc. turning it into leases for lot and homes and maintaining ownership of everything. This one is probably a no-go, as then CRIT would have to handle all residence maintenance, repairs, insurance, etc.

5. A fifth possibility is piggy-backing on scenario #1, merging lots, further zoning the property to different "levels", such as allowing a portion of the park to be site built, riverfront, maybe luxury homes. Other parts for Manufactured homes, maybe some multi-family duplexes/apartments/low income.

6. Cancel all leases, kick everyone out, give them a week to remove all personal property, and seizing all the homes. They are sovereign. You can't sue them. And you will have zip, nada, no recourse whatsoever. Just ask the Lower River, West Bank property "owners".

One thing to remember is that the $60 - $350 lot leases will be a thing of the past. I would look for riverfront lots to go for up to $1,500-$2,000 or more. Other desirable lots $750 - $1,000. Run of the mill lots, $500 - $750. These are all just my WAGs, and I have NO inside info on what they will charge or what they intend to do. The economy is still in question, so there's no telling what those costs could rise to, by the time 2031 rolls around.

The other thing to remember is to re-read #6. When dealing with an Indian Lease on Reservation land, ALWAYS make sure that the language of the lease has a blurb in it, something to the effect of:

"The Colorado River Indian Tribes agree to waive Sovereign Immunity in any dispute, regarding any subject contained in this lease agreement and/or subsequent amendment(s)."

Remember to consult an attorney, well versed in Indian and other applicable Federal Laws, to review any documents/agreements in ANY business matters with the Tribe. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING until it has been reviewed by said attorney.

Bottom line: Over the next few years, you will see the asking and sale prices of homes in Blue Water Lagoon, and other soon to expire Indian Leases, fall drastically. People are going to try and recoup SOMETHING before the leases expire, and some unsuspecting people are going to jump on them, only to possibly get screwed when the lease actually expires. Until/unless there is some kind of advance notice on what a new lease will entail, I, personally, would refrain from purchasing ANYTHING that falls under the current lease, unless you can afford to lose it all in 2031. Also note that Real Estate Title Agencies (which does handle MH transfers on Indian land) are now requiring valid Title, through AZ MVD, for all mobile home ownership transfers. It wasn't required when I bought my place down there in 2012, but DID need it when I sold it in 2020. So if anyone reading this with a place down there and planning to sell, don't wait for the last minute to find out you have to obtain a Title on something that probably was NEVER titled, or has changed hands multiple times without the "official" State Title being updated.

It's OK to gamble, but in this case, you'll get better odds putting your boat title on the table, at the place up over the Dam.
Even with CRIT it is hard to imagine a scenario other than #2. They'll have their hands full filling the vacancies of people who bail because their lease went up, but the rest will be willing to pay a market price lease and continue generating revenue for CRIT........
 

BoatCop

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Even with CRIT it is hard to imagine a scenario other than #2. They'll have their hands full filling the vacancies of people who bail because their lease went up, but the rest will be willing to pay a market price lease and continue generating revenue for CRIT........
I would say #3 is more likely. There's usually a house fire down there every other month or so. And unless there's a mortgage on the trailer, insurance isn't required. (AFAIK) They've been looking for a way to get the fire traps, pre-1974, aluminum wired, dilapidated junk trailers out of there. This would be the time to do so. They have a new manager, and they're actually starting to spend some money down there. New gate, roads, water/sewer/electrical improvements, etc. so it will probably be kept as a residential subdivision. But what form, can be anyone's guess.
 

rivrrts429

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I have been in Big River since 1989. It’s a true boaters haven and is nothing like the Parker Strip or Lake Havasu. It’s rare you see anyone doing stupid shit whether it’s a wakeboard boat or jet ski. It’s what the river was 40+ years ago.

With that said I bought a new place on the Parker Strip and I’m making a change after all these years. Some of my closest friends are still in Big River. It’s absolutely beautiful and Big River is home to some of the fastest boats on the water. Never a dull moment of seeing amazing hardware.

The only downside is the crocodiles & the occasional banjo players along the bank lol
 

BoatCop

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I have been in Big River since 1989. It’s a true boaters haven and is nothing like the Parker Strip or Lake Havasu. It’s rare you see anyone doing stupid shit whether it’s a wakeboard boat or jet ski. It’s what the river was 40+ years ago.

With that said I bought a new place on the Parker Strip and I’m making a change after all these years. Some of my closest friends are still in Big River. It’s absolutely beautiful and Big River is home to some of the fastest boats on the water. Never a dull moment of seeing amazing hardware.

The only downside is the crocodiles & the occasional banjo players along the bank lol

Don't LOL too hard. There was an alligator farm down in the valley, on the Res in the 1930s and '40s. It got washed out in a flood and not all the "residents" were accounted for. The Palo Verde Dam was built '56-'58, so they mostly would have been washed down further south, but YOU NEVER KNOW!
 
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BingerFang

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Don't LOL too hard. There was an alligator farm down in the valley, on the Res in the 1930s and '40s. It got washed out in a flood and not all the "residents" were accounted for. The Palo Verde Dam was built '56-'58, so they mostly would have been washed down further south, but YOU NEVER KNOW!

I’ve seen two alligators below the dam in Big River. They are very aggressive and I wouldn’t recommend anyone go near the water. Yore safe on the Parker strip and havasu!
 

rivrrts429

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I’ve seen two alligators below the dam in Big River. They are very aggressive and I wouldn’t recommend anyone go near the water. Yore safe on the Parker strip and havasu!


I was going to tag you and wzuber to chime in with the alligator sightings lol
 

76 Hondo

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I’ve been on the lower River since 1975, first Water Wheel and now Lost Lake since ‘91. CRIT doesn’t seem to care if they loose income and a big percentage of people have left LL since CRIT took it over.
They have not maintained the park or provided any services, no gas, propane the store has been closed and empty for 2 1/2 years. We have learned to adjust bring our gas and ice when we run out we run to town. The residents at LL have stepped up and watered and mowed the grass( yes we have grass and trees).
 

rivrrts429

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I’ve been on the lower River since 1975, first Water Wheel and now Lost Lake since ‘91. CRIT doesn’t seem to care if they loose income and a big percentage of people have left LL since CRIT took it over.
They have not maintained the park or provided any services, no gas, propane the store has been closed and empty for 2 1/2 years. We have learned to adjust bring our gas and ice when we run out we run to town. The residents at LL have stepped up and watered and mowed the grass( yes we have grass and trees).



That’s a bummer to hear. I have so many good memories at LL with friends who had places there. They sold about the time CRIT took over. It’s a great park with great people.
 

warpt71

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I’ve been on the lower River since 1975, first Water Wheel and now Lost Lake since ‘91. CRIT doesn’t seem to care if they loose income and a big percentage of people have left LL since CRIT took it over.
They have not maintained the park or provided any services, no gas, propane the store has been closed and empty for 2 1/2 years. We have learned to adjust bring our gas and ice when we run out we run to town. The residents at LL have stepped up and watered and mowed the grass( yes we have grass and trees).

I have an ice maker 😁
 

JFMFG

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Quality of boating?

We used to run out of Lost Lakes back in the day, and it was pretty much heaven down there.

Did you want to water ski, on glass, without an observer? Go for it. You could run for miles and not see another soul.

To me it was jet ski heaven. No idiots to worry about.

They used to have drag races Every weekend back in the day at LL. Not sure if they do that anymore?

It's quiet and peaceful. I doubt you'll see any wake tractors, it's far too shallow for those things for the most part.

It's nice. 👍🏼
In middle school prob 20 years ago now. Every big weekend come 5pm people literally trailering drag boats to the side ramp to dump them in and drag up that stretch before sand bar. Such a badass place.
 

JFMFG

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Quality of boating?

We used to run out of Lost Lakes back in the day, and it was pretty much heaven down there.

Did you want to water ski, on glass, without an observer? Go for it. You could run for miles and not see another soul.

To me it was jet ski heaven. No idiots to worry about.

They used to have drag races Every weekend back in the day at LL. Not sure if they do that anymore?

It's quiet and peaceful. I doubt you'll see any wake tractors, it's far too shallow for those things for the most part.

It's nice. 👍🏼
In middle school prob 20 years ago now. Every big weekend come 5pm people literally trailering drag boats to the side ramp to dump them in and drag up that stretch before sand bar.
I have an ice maker 😁
growing up knew a guy named Dan in LL had a nice yellow Malibu. I believe he owns trim Lok now. Big money right there.
 

EarpRider

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I know this thread is about the River, itself, and not the Blue Water Lagoon Sub-division. But if you are considering buying in BWL, these are some things you need to know.

First and foremost, the Master Lease is set to expire in 2031. The Master Lease originally went to a developer, while the Tribes just sat back and collected the money from the developer. Several years ago, CRIT acquired the lease, along with that of Big River, and while the Master Lease(s) are still shown to be between the lessee (tenant) and lessor (developer), the lessor is now actually the Tribe, which is also the land owner.

CRIT is playing their cards close to the chest as to how they are going to handle renegotiation of the leases. There are a number of scenarios:

1. Cancel all leases across the board, and evict everyone in the subdivision. Those with trailers/manufactured homes, would have to either remove them or abandon them. Those with stick-built homes, garages, any "fixed to the ground" improvements would lose them, as anything built to the ground on leased land, becomes the property of the lessor (land owner).

2. Offer renegotiation to all property owners. In most cases, the leases apply to the land only. The tenants own the homes themselves, and only lease the lot. (see previous paragraph on stick and brick homes).

3. Screen all properties and prioritize lease negotiation to existing "modern" Mobile/Manufactured Homes, and negotiate with current tenants on the outdated, out of code, tin-can ramshackle, trailers to require that they be removed and/or updated to current codes. Those who choose not to negotiate can probably just walk away, but may still be required to remove "their" owned trailers. I suppose they could just be abandoned, but I'm sure the tribes would find a way to go after them for removal/disposal costs.

4. Buying out all owners trailers/Manufactured homes etc. turning it into leases for lot and homes and maintaining ownership of everything. This one is probably a no-go, as then CRIT would have to handle all residence maintenance, repairs, insurance, etc.

5. A fifth possibility is piggy-backing on scenario #1, merging lots, further zoning the property to different "levels", such as allowing a portion of the park to be site built, riverfront, maybe luxury homes. Other parts for Manufactured homes, maybe some multi-family duplexes/apartments/low income.

6. Cancel all leases, kick everyone out, give them a week to remove all personal property, and seizing all the homes. They are sovereign. You can't sue them. And you will have zip, nada, no recourse whatsoever. Just ask the Lower River, West Bank property "owners".

One thing to remember is that the $60 - $350 lot leases will be a thing of the past. I would look for riverfront lots to go for up to $1,500-$2,000 or more. Other desirable lots $750 - $1,000. Run of the mill lots, $500 - $750. These are all just my WAGs, and I have NO inside info on what they will charge or what they intend to do. The economy is still in question, so there's no telling what those costs could rise to, by the time 2031 rolls around.

The other thing to remember is to re-read #6. When dealing with an Indian Lease on Reservation land, ALWAYS make sure that the language of the lease has a blurb in it, something to the effect of:

"The Colorado River Indian Tribes agree to waive Sovereign Immunity in any dispute, regarding any subject contained in this lease agreement and/or subsequent amendment(s)."

Remember to consult an attorney, well versed in Indian and other applicable Federal Laws, to review any documents/agreements in ANY business matters with the Tribe. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING until it has been reviewed by said attorney.

Bottom line: Over the next few years, you will see the asking and sale prices of homes in Blue Water Lagoon, and other soon to expire Indian Leases, fall drastically. People are going to try and recoup SOMETHING before the leases expire, and some unsuspecting people are going to jump on them, only to possibly get screwed when the lease actually expires. Until/unless there is some kind of advance notice on what a new lease will entail, I, personally, would refrain from purchasing ANYTHING that falls under the current lease, unless you can afford to lose it all in 2031. Also note that Real Estate Title Agencies (which does handle MH transfers on Indian land) are now requiring valid Title, through AZ MVD, for all mobile home ownership transfers. It wasn't required when I bought my place down there in 2012, but DID need it when I sold it in 2020. So if anyone reading this with a place down there and planning to sell, don't wait for the last minute to find out you have to obtain a Title on something that probably was NEVER titled, or has changed hands multiple times without the "official" State Title being updated.

It's OK to gamble, but in this case, you'll get better odds putting your boat title on the table, at the place up over the Dam.
When was the last time CRIT raised the lease in Blue Water, just curious.
 

cofooter

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Never, as far as I know. 2031 will be the first time. The lease rates were determined based on when/where the property was when it was first occupied and grandfathered in. Some people actually pay $0, some pay up to a few hundred. My sister pays $118. Thats why its going to be a shock to a lot of residents when they raise rates to market prices in 2031.
 

warpt71

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growing up knew a guy named Dan in LL had a nice yellow Malibu. I believe he owns trim Lok now. Big money right there.

I think I know the Dan that you are speaking of, I cant for the life of me remember his last name lol! He had a bigger garage on C row. He was out of the park shortly after I bought down there
 

JFMFG

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I think I know the Dan that you are speaking of, I cant for the life of me remember his last name lol! He had a bigger garage on C row. He was out of the park shortly after I bought down there
Whitener I believe
 

warpt71

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Ding ding ding!!!!! Yep, same Dan lol and still one of the nicer houses in that area of the park
 

Sharp Shooter

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I love Big River! The water levels keep the barges away and it's still fairly secluded comparatively speaking. Has anybody seen Dave Costello? He had a waterfront trailer at Big River Rv Park 30 years ago. These are all old pics from the 90's.

Dave.jpg


Big riv.jpg


Alcorntrip.jpg


aa1.jpg
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AlandGreg.jpg
bigrivboats.jpg
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SBM.jpg


BRSurf.jpg
GinaPat.jpg
John Suzanne Jennet Big River 1993a.jpg
 

timstoy

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I love Big River! The water levels keep the barges away and it's still fairly secluded comparatively speaking. Has anybody seen Dave Costello? He had a waterfront trailer at Big River Rv Park 30 years ago. These are all old pics from the 90's.

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Pat Eason for President! He gets around!
 

Sharp Shooter

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Pat Eason for President! He gets around!

One morning I caught him standing by an ez up holding his Coors light and I said to him; “ Up late drinking and here you are already back on the gas at 6:00am? Doesn’t your head hurt?” He holds up his can with a smile and says “Chrome aspirin!” 😂😂
 
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timstoy

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One morning I caught him standing by an ez up holding his Coors light and I said to him; “ Up late drinking and here you are already back on the gas at 6:00am? Doesn’t your head hurt?” He holds up his can with a smile and says “Chrome asperin!” 😂😂
Classic Eason! We were testing at Irvine lake when they had the Wednesday afternoon testing and we had a few cold ones and Eason said his oil light was on. We checked the oil and no oil was showing on the dipstick. We grabbed a couple quarts of 60 weight in the motor and still nothing showed on the dipstick. I think we put five or six quarts in to get full. We told Pat that he now had a race truck! I haven’t seen Pat in awhile hope he’s doing well.
 

BoatCop

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When was the last time CRIT raised the lease in Blue Water, just curious.

Never. They are still operating off of the original leases, set in the '60s. When the master lease was set back then, the individual leases, from the tenants to the developer, were all long-term, and assumable by subsequent buyers. Some of the newer areas/lots have higher leases, as they were leased out and developed after the master lease was set. That's why some lots have low lease payments in the $30-$65 range, while others can be as high as $375 or more. There were offers, over the years, for owners to pre-pay the entire lease to raise capitol for park improvements. My place down there had a zero lease. A previous owner pre-paid a few decades ago, when they were raising money to re-pave the park.
 

OCMerrill

All in...
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I have been in Big River since 1989. It’s a true boaters haven and is nothing like the Parker Strip or Lake Havasu. It’s rare you see anyone doing stupid shit whether it’s a wakeboard boat or jet ski. It’s what the river was 40+ years ago.

With that said I bought a new place on the Parker Strip and I’m making a change after all these years. Some of my closest friends are still in Big River. It’s absolutely beautiful and Big River is home to some of the fastest boats on the water. Never a dull moment of seeing amazing hardware.

The only downside is the crocodiles & the occasional banjo players along the bank lol
So your saying Big River is closely related to the movie "Deliverance?" 🤯


😁
 

Sharp Shooter

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View attachment 1365470
Dam to Dam Mike?
Never saw anybody run through water like he did with a runnerbottom.
One of life’s mysteries that he never crashed that boat.

Yep that's Mike Hickman RIP. He gave me a ride that weekend and when we got done he said, ok your turn and we switched seats. Unfortunately right at that moment the shaft log seal went south so we had to head back to the trailer.

He wanted to know if I felt the boat could be competitive in SuperStock? It did turn pretty well, but not like a B boat. :)
 
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