Big River?

[Gramps]

I know nothing about Big River area and my son is thinking about getting a house there? Pros? Cons??

 

[Swain]

Rocky, Some cool houses, just need to learn the river.

 

[HB2Havasu]

Con - It's on CRIT Land so good luck when they tell you to move out of their house!

 

[rivrrts429]

Alligators and rednecks that hunt boaters from the shoreline. Best to stay away

 

[rivermobster]

I know nothing about Big River area and my son is thinking about getting a house there? Pros? Cons??

He's about 98 years too late.

Richard knows a bit about it. Maybe he will send you a PM.

 

[wishiknew]

Con - It's on CRIT Land so good luck when they tell you to move out of there house!

CRIT land = BIG PROBLEM

 

[rivrrts429]

In all seriousness you’re at the mercy of CRIT and the 99 year lease which is due for renewal in a few years. It’s the best part of the entire Colorado river system but CRIT will always be the elephant in the room.

Covid was an eye opener as CRIT was patrolling the AZ side of their land while spying on homeowners on the CA side if they were hanging out on the beaches and in the water. It was bizarre.

My guess is that if they don’t renew the lease it’ll be so hung up in the federal court system for so long that we’ll be all dead before it’s settled. I’m betting that the lease(s) are renewed. It’s still a risk and largely why banks won’t loan much, if anything, on these properties.

I’ve been in Big River since 1989 and have had minimal issues with CRIT.

 

[2Driver]

He's about 98 years too late.

Richard knows a bit about it. Maybe he will send you a PM.

When we bought the river house in 2013, I went down to Big River to look at a Hallett that was for sale at some famous drag racers home - forget his name.

He was super cool and had an outstanding place on the water, huge shop for his cars, and private ramp. He told me he only had a number of years left before it got turned back to CRIT because the lease was over and they weren’t renewing at the time.

 

[rivermobster]

When we bought the river house in 2013, I went down to Big River to look at a Hallett that was for sale at some famous drag racers home - forget his name.

He was super cool and had an outstanding place on the water, huge shop for his cars, and private ramp. He told me he only had a number of years left before it got turned back to CRIT because the lease was over and they weren’t renewing at the time.

BR is quite the cluster fuck. I did a bunch of homework and Rich helped with it.

I'm not Even gonna try and explain it.

 

[Yldboyz]

Cons: when I piss in the water up river; your swimming in it...

 

[rivermobster]

Cons: when I piss in the water up river; your swimming in it...

As are you genius...

Enjoy that channel!

 

[GETBOATS]

Left a lower unit there in 1980, went down river, Didn't know the river and boated early, 15" of water at best. ouch!!

 

[lbhsbz]

Big River is closed.

I love it but I wouldn't own anything on indian land that didn't have wheels on it so I could tow it off when they decide to get stupid with the lease.

 

[Smupser]

I always liked big river. Close to Parker if you need to run into town and get anything. And you can always drive down to lost lake/ hidden Valley. Good stretch a River.

but after seeing what the tribe did to all the communities during Covid, I would be very hesitant on buying anything on CRIT land.

 

[wzuber]

LOL..........Jesus the mis-information here is rich........along with the chicken little.
I own a water front house there currently and will be selling it soon. The Indians have been really pretty cool to me in my dealing with them. (building permits, lease info. etc) I have always treated them with respect and they me, even Ambrose the notoriously difficult building inspector. We actually got along pretty well and he had some pretty cool stories to tell of his time in the Navy along with his fathers time as a Interpreter (?) He's was highly regarded for his ability to interpret the Japanese fleet's war codes as I recall. (pearl harbor)
The lease ends in Feb. 2029. First ours with the tribes, then the following day the tribes with the feds. Currently my lease is $360.00/ year. Two months of space rent at Rio Del Sol RV park equated that in 2009 when we bought. (note: the peeps at RDS like (RR427 here) were great and we missed them often. The owner and mgmt? not so much.) The general expectation amongst other full time resident property owners there currently is the feds will renew a primary lease with the tribes and they again with us. The terms will likely change as well as anyone would expect. The tribes have awaken and are taking more responsibility for their lives, assets etc. It's a new generation of leadership. The lease rates will go up. In some locations the tribes have already done so where people have faulted on their agreements etc. Yes, during covid they were a little crazy and some tribal LEO guys went too far with their powers of enforcement of their restrictions. Some people like to taunt and/or disrespect them and they react strongly to that as a general rule. Kinda like taunting a cop on a traffic violation only they don't give a shit about public perception. You fuck w/ them, they fuck back. haha
I was there during covid working on my house with a couple people. I even dared to swim..haha Initially I wanted to flip them off or something but then thought better of it and they never bothered me at all. My neighbor Bob had people VRBO renting his place on weekends, weeks etc. and he had no issues. Hell, I had people yelling at me in HAVAZOO on the highway telling me to go home during that time too. Crazy was in back then thanks to the MSM propaganda and gov't. bullshit. Covid ravaged the tribes heavily. Generally speaking, they are rather unhealty people, typically obese, live very densly (multi-family per household) etc., covid thrived on these conditions and they were scared shitless because they bought into the hype and propaganda and lost lots of tribal/family memebers. Things are back to normal for the most part now when I'm there. People are on the water again business as usual. The newer generation of tribal people are generally cool when dealing with them as I've experienced to date. The older ones still seem to harbor some resentments or are just rather un-happy people in general and can be difficult at times but again, just respect them and they are generally helpful and respectful back. I ask nicely and they generally reply in kind. Try to tell them how it's going to be or that they're fuk'd, stupid, assholes etc. and well, you'll have a fight on your hands as you might expect from just about anyone.
The reason I'm selling this property and my primary cali home is I'm moving to Utah for a couple years then onto the next horizon if we decide we want to be somewhere else. Big River is a great part of the river to recreate. Learn the water levels and the river channels and you will be golden. The river bottom stays put being a rocky shoal type bottom as opposed to the shifting sand bars further down like Blyth and beyond. One upside to the lease condition is cheap water front property. If my house was deeded property I would have never been able to afford it.

 

[81Sprint]

love Big River, always had fun at Catfish Cantina and Dumas Walkers after a day out on the water. Don't think I would buy a place though for the same CRIT reasons others have stated.

 

[wzuber]

Left a lower unit there in 1980, went down river, Didn't know the river and boated early, 15" of water at best. ouch!!

yes it will bite you if you don't know to pay attention. A quick look at the head gate water flow charts for the day/week will help prevent ooopsies such as that. People run everything down there regularly, wake boats, v-drives, I/O's you name it. Just have to be aware and you will be fine.

 

[BoatCop]

Never buy/lease anything on Indian land, unless you have an "IN" to their court system. That means you are an enrolled member of a Federally recognized Indian Tribe. You have zero recourse, as those further down River discovered. In Federal Court, all they have to do is claim "Sovereign Immunity" and the case is dismissed. If you aren't Native, you have no standing in Tribal Court.

That said, we bought a place in Blue Water Lagoon for wife's Mom, but it was in wife's name only, as she is enrolled Citizen of the Cherokee Nation and could sue in Tribal and/or Federal Court if they screwed us. We were able to sell it, after MIL passed away. The master lease expires in 2029 (+/-), the same time as Big River. A little history is needed here.

Back in the '60s a Developer/Investor leased Big River and Blue Water land to develop housing sites, both vacation and permanent residences. Those leases expire in 2029. The people who "bought" property leased the individual lots from the developer(s). I remember sitting home from school, sick, watching daytime TV and seeing the commercials on channel 13 for them. The master leases were sold a few times, until some time in the '90s, CRIT decided that THEY could do a better job managing the land. And CRIT cancelled the master lease(s), which the developers had no recourse. However CRIT was nice enough to honor the individual leases with the residents, at least for now. Lease payments (Blue Water, I'm not sure what Big River was going for) varied from as low as $25-$50 and up to $250-$300. My place down there had a zero lease payment, as a prior "owner" paid the lease ahead in full, when they offered a one-time deal so they could re-pave the park. I know of one river-front place in Blue Water, currently for sale @ $500k, that has a $50 lease.

BUT!

When the master lease expires in 6 years, EVERY lot will be re-negotiated. By "re-negotiated" I mean that CRIT will tell you what your new lease will be and you will agree to it or GTFO. My guess is that the lease payments will increase to $500 - $1,500+ a month. I also anticipate that CRIT will force the removal of the older junky tin-sided mobile homes, or just cancel those leases and move them out themselves and just lease the lots, with the new lessees putting in modern manufactured homes. There's also the possibility that they could close the whole thing down to upgrade the water, sewer, electrics, cable, and other infrastructure. There's a water line break about once a month down there, and several fires a year, due to ancient, corroding lines and no maintenance.

Another issue is that anything that is built (sticks and bricks) on leased land, is the property of the land OWNER (ie CRIT). So while some mobile homes could be pulled out, when the leases expire, anything site built would have to stay. An example would be our former place there. (below) It's a nice double wide, but there is a garage built in front of it. It would take a butt-load of money to remove the double wide, without tearing down the garage (which I'm sure CRIT wouldn't allow.) If the MH had to be removed, it would have to be craned out, or the place next door leveled and drug out that way (unlikely). Plus, CRIT could just say GTFO and keep the mobile. The MH "owner" would have zero recourse and lose everything they've put into the property. If that happened, I'm sure that there will be a streak of unexplained fires.

So to sum it up, don't buy/lease anything on Indian land unless you want to lose it all.

 

[BoatCop]

The lease ends in Feb. 2029. First ours with the tribes, then the following day the tribes with the feds.

The Tribes DO NOT lease from the Federal Government. The land is CRIT Reservation, lock, stock and barrel. Now, there might be some areas off the Reservation, that is Federal, possibly easements for roads, utilities, but the main area of Big River is 100% CRIT Res.

 

[rivrrts429]

When we bought the river house in 2013, I went down to Big River to look at a Hallett that was for sale at some famous drag racers home - forget his name.

He was super cool and had an outstanding place on the water, huge shop for his cars, and private ramp. He told me he only had a number of years left before it got turned back to CRIT because the lease was over and they weren’t renewing at the time.

It was probably Al?

 

[Smupser]

@BoatCop nailed it.

side note. Wasn’t the developer back in the 60’s called valley of the sun or some?

 

[wzuber]

The Tribes DO NOT lease from the Federal Government. The land is CRIT Reservation, lock, stock and barrel. Now, there might be some areas off the Reservation, that is Federal, possibly easements for roads, utilities, but the main area of Big River is 100% CRIT Res.

View attachment 1228944

Well, i guess my lease docs r wrong then. Sorry to have offeded u.

 

[2Driver]

It was probably Al?

I don’t know maybe if I knew his last name. He was in the vintage with Muldowney and Prudhomme

 

[rivermobster]

And this is how you define "cluster fuck"

New Big River school put on hold

IN THE PHOTO: Needles Unified School District Superintendent Dave Renquest (left) and Parker Dam Elementary School Principal Lisa Cain flank architectural drawings of the new Big River Elementary School at

www.parkerpioneer.net

"Land for the school had to be secured from the Bureau of Land Management. Access was land held by the Colorado River Indian Tribes. Utilities were also extended to the site. The state was to provide funding."

BTW, the school is actually open now. Only took one silly decade to figure it out!

 

[Taboma]

Well, i guess my lease docs r wrong then. Sorry to have offeded u.

Not sure where you're at in Big River, but using the San Bernardino County GIS parcel maps, I see there's an area on the south developed end of Rio Vista Dr. that show both Government and Reservation. Any further south there more Government and a few more lots north and it's just Indian Reservation.
Could be other islands of this as well, just took a cursory peek. I recall a young lady I was dating in the late 60's, her sister and brother and law bought a place in there. I recall seeing the brochures on the table and we had some brief discussion. In those days I wasn't even remotely familiar with the river.

 

[warpt71]

My opinion for what its worth; The Indians will renew leases because they make them money. I would say that leases/rents will increase to fair market value. This is business and they wont walk away from easy money. The other option is to not renew and not have that income. And if you think they will just level land and bring in new mobiles Id say think twice. Why would they invest when they can just renew and keep collecting? I own a mobile in a CRIT park. Ive never been threatened to leave or actually forced out or even locked out! Yes my launch ramp was closed but a chain and a truck could have opened it. There are plenty of issues with my old park, lack of maintenance is the biggest issue, that and a private lease holder that did the absolute cheapest repairs at the end of his lease. As others have said above, its a killer stretch of river to enjoy from Palo Verde Dam to Headgate Rock Dam, that alone keeps me going back

 

[Smupser]

I get with a lot of you guys are seeing as far as you have great experiences with the tribe. The problem is is that most you have had those leases for years and have a relatively decent rate. But to address the OP’s concerns, you can’t deny that the lease will be up in six years. And with that being said, the lease rates will adjust. So if you were to invest a few hundred thousand dollars into a place there and then six years, the land lease goes to an astronomical rate you’re SOL. And as boat cop said you have no rights in a tribal court, so it is a big risk and gamble. It’s much easier for the guys who are there right now to say “sure come on down, but a place” because their loss wouldn’t be as great as somebody who was coming in at this current time.

 

[Smupser]

My opinion for what it’s worth; The Indians will renew leases because they make them money. I would say that leases/rents will increase to fair market value. This is business and they wont walk away from easy money. The other option is to not renew and not have that income. And if you think they will just level land and bring in new mobiles Id say think twice. Why would they invest when they can just renew and keep collecting? I own a mobile in a CRIT park. Ive never been threatened to leave or actually forced out or even locked out! Yes my launch ramp was closed but a chain and a truck could have opened it. There are plenty of issues with my old park, lack of maintenance is the biggest issue, that and a private lease holder that did the absolute cheapest repairs at the end of his lease. As others have said above, its a killer stretch of river to enjoy from Palo Verde Dam to Headgate Rock Dam, that alone keeps me going back

I can guarantee you the money that the tribe collects from land leases is minuscule compared to what they get from federal government assistance, agriculture, and the casino. It’s never been about money with them. It’s about power.

 

[Gramps]

Thanks for all of the info... the Zillow ad on the house mentions nothing about CRIT land. We will check it out

 

[Gramps]

the place he is looking at is the one with the pool

 

[UltraLucky]

@BoatCop nailed it.

side note. Wasn’t the developer back in the 60’s called valley of the sun or some?

Pen Phillip Lands

 

[Bobby V]

Thanks for all of the info... the Zillow ad on the house mentions nothing about CRIT land. We will check it out

475K

150515 Del Rey Dr, Big River, CA 92242 | Zillow

150515 Del Rey Dr, Big River CA, is a Single Family home that contains 1700 sq ft and was built in 2003.It contains 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms.This home last sold for $455,000 in June 2023. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $488,900, which has increased by $4,687 in the last 30 days.The...

www.zillow.com

 

[bowtiejunkie]

A purchase this close to current lease end would be a cash purchase I would think. Then, you have to determine if the risk is worth it regarding what could happen in 2029 at lease end.

Big River has been the playground of my dad’s family going back to early 70’s. Some co-worker at SCE turned my dad onto the place and the rest is history. My dad bought a lot in the early 1970s off Alamo. He bought a stick house near the fire station in 2004(?). Grandma and Grandpa ran/were partners in the restaurant at the park for several years. It was a great place to visit as a kid in the 1980’s. Everything was a buzz back then. The cast of characters was quite amusing. I’m hoping my Dad lives to age 79 so he finds out what happens with the lease.

Con = lease on Crit land. Most everything requires a drive to Parker.

Pro = the boating is awesome.

 

[El Rojo]

Right here in the fine print…

 

[EarpRider]

475K

150515 Del Rey Dr, Big River, CA 92242 | Zillow

150515 Del Rey Dr, Big River CA, is a Single Family home that contains 1700 sq ft and was built in 2003.It contains 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms.This home last sold for $455,000 in June 2023. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $488,900, which has increased by $4,687 in the last 30 days.The...

www.zillow.com

Lease land! Same thing, it's all CRIT.

 

[rivermobster]

I get with a lot of you guys are seeing as far as you have great experiences with the tribe. The problem is is that most you have had those leases for years and have a relatively decent rate. But to address the OP’s concerns, you can’t deny that the lease will be up in six years. And with that being said, the lease rates will adjust. So if you were to invest a few hundred thousand dollars into a place there and then six years, the land lease goes to an astronomical rate you’re SOL. And as boat cop said you have no rights in a tribal court, so it is a big risk and gamble. It’s much easier for the guys who are there right now to say “sure come on down, but a place” because their loss wouldn’t be as great as somebody who was coming in at this current time.

 

[RVR SWPR]

If your son can handle today the purchase of that beautiful home on the river,the land lease negotiation in 6 years most likely not a problem. Expendable income is awesome and usually well earned. Looks like Apple did not fall far from the tree. Enjoy.

 

[Taboma]

Do they allow golf carts and or SxS on the streets ? Any easily accessible offroading you can drive to from your house ?

 

[River Runnin]

475K

150515 Del Rey Dr, Big River, CA 92242 | Zillow

150515 Del Rey Dr, Big River CA, is a Single Family home that contains 1700 sq ft and was built in 2003.It contains 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms.This home last sold for $455,000 in June 2023. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $488,900, which has increased by $4,687 in the last 30 days.The...

www.zillow.com

Crit chief be eyeballing this after the BIG RIVER Kick!

 

[Wheeler]

Well, i guess my lease docs r wrong then. Sorry to have offeded u.

Do yo pay property taxes to San Bernardino?

 

[BoatCop]

Do they allow golf carts and or SxS on the streets ? Any easily accessible offroading you can drive to from your house ?

Whatever California law is.

California doesn't recognize CRIT (or any Indian) Police authority. CRIT isn't allowed to provide Law Enforcement services, nor enforce their (criminal) laws in the State. The only thing they can enforce is hunting/fishing laws. CHP and San Bernardino Sheriff do the rest.

Crit chief be eyeballing this after the BIG RIVER Kick!

See above. Indians don't live in Big River because they are treated like everyone else. They don't go to CRIT jail or Court. They go to Needles with the tweakers.

 

[wzuber]

Do yo pay property taxes to San Bernardino?

Yes.

 

[wzuber]

Whatever California law is.

California doesn't recognize CRIT (or any Indian) Police authority. CRIT isn't allowed to provide Law Enforcement services, nor enforce their (criminal) laws in the State. The only thing they can enforce is hunting/fishing laws. CHP and San Bernardino Sheriff do the rest.



See above. Indians don't live in Big River because they are treated like everyone else. They don't go to CRIT jail or Court. They go to Needles with the tweakers.

Oddly enough they don't seem to even take advantage of the recreation the river provides. Rarely ever see them near or on the water.

 

[Boatymcboatface]

Big river is closed!

 

[BingerFang]

Havasu is much better bang for your buck. Plus, Big River boating is absolutely terrible.

 

[white tortilla]

Do yo pay property taxes to San Bernardino?

Yes

 

[white tortilla]

Been going here since I was born. House was paid for cash by my father 30 years ago. For a dime. We use it 12 months a year. When the time comes we hope the negotiations are reasonable, if not, it was still a cheap cost for 30 years of drama free river life where I have made the best memories of my life.

 

[EarpRider]

Havasu is much better bang for your buck. Plus, Big River boating is absolutely terrible.

Totally different experience, really hard to even compare the two.

 

[FlyByWire]

Whatever California law is.

California doesn't recognize CRIT (or any Indian) Police authority. CRIT isn't allowed to provide Law Enforcement services, nor enforce their (criminal) laws in the State. The only thing they can enforce is hunting/fishing laws. CHP and San Bernardino Sheriff do the rest.



See above. Indians don't live in Big River because they are treated like everyone else. They don't go to CRIT jail or Court. They go to Needles with the tweakers.

MMMHMMMMMM

 

[warpt71]

I can guarantee you the money that the tribe collects from land leases is minuscule compared to what they get from federal government assistance, agriculture, and the casino. It’s never been about money with them. It’s about power.

500 spaces @ $430-500 a month = $215-250000 a month. Almost 3 mill a year and about all they have to do is collect. I'm not saying it's a ton of money compared to other avenues but it's not hard money to earn. And that's just one park. There's got to be a dozen or more parks before you even get to the town and individual leases.