Big Power Day Cruiser choice? TT or Blower

[AzGeo]

View attachment 620235 Some talk here of a blower motor being unruly at low speeds. I don't find it that way at all. I have a 548ci in my 21 Howard with a 10:71 , 2 dominators, and a fairly big roller cam, sure it surges a little at idle but I like it and with the turbo 400 it is no problem to handle around the dock using 1st gear. With a 48% v drive gear I can cruise at a fairly low rpm also, and when I want to it will hit 100+ mph at about 6200/6300 rpm. It has had some bottom work done and a 7.5 deg strut installed in a more forward location. None of these mods have caused any problems.

YEP, you know how it works, you've owned and built the boat (and others) yourself . The original question was asked by a person who does not have those kind of experiences, and my answer was directed at a person who did not specify "image" or "ambiance", just performance .

Had he said "I like blower surge", well then an EFI blower motor (any EFI controlled motor) wouldn't be what he wanted . Solid rollers, 360 lbs springs, valve adjustments, barrel valves, indexed carbs, are the NORM for many here, but some are willing to pay for more performance and less maintenance, while forgoing all the "finickiness" .

I also took NOISE as a major factor, since I didn't know if he boats in a controlled area .

Third, I must say that I still see "blower boat owners" PUMPING THE THROTTLE WHILE CRANKING THEIR COLD MOTORS ON THE RAMP .

He never mentioned COST, so knowing that an "EFI controlled turbo system" usually is at the upper end of prices, has the most docile low speed manners, is easy to start cold, makes great, smooth torque over a wide RPM range, takes minimal maintenance, and makes minimal noise, I stand by my previous comments .

In today's world of "factory supercharged, smog legal, showroom vehicles", VS the "old school" Chevelle with a 14-71 sticking thru the hood, there will always be room for "everyone's choices", just open your bank account .................

 

[Tahoe540]

YEP, you know how it works, you've owned and built the boat (and others) yourself . The original question was asked by a person who does not have those kind of experiences, and my answer was directed at a person who did not specify "image" or "ambiance", just performance .

Had he said "I like blower surge", well then an EFI blower motor (any EFI controlled motor) wouldn't be what he wanted . Solid rollers, 360 lbs springs, valve adjustments, barrel valves, indexed carbs, are the NORM for many here, but some are willing to pay for more performance and less maintenance, while forgoing all the "finickiness" .

I also took NOISE as a major factor, since I didn't know if he boats in a controlled area .

Third, I must say that I still see "blower boat owners" PUMPING THE THROTTLE WHILE CRANKING THEIR COLD MOTORS ON THE RAMP .

He never mentioned COST, so knowing that an "EFI controlled turbo system" usually is at the upper end of prices, has the most docile low speed manners, is easy to start cold, makes great, smooth torque over a wide RPM range, takes minimal maintenance, and makes minimal noise, I stand by my previous comments .

In today's world of "factory supercharged, smog legal, showroom vehicles", VS the "old school" Chevelle with a 14-71 sticking thru the hood, there will always be room for "everyone's choices", just open your bank account .................

I appreciate the responses and experiences. I was asking as I am comparing costs of the two and the deal on the whipple seems pretty good but is considerably more than say a used old gale banks setup. My next step is to contact boost power and see about a newer style turbo system with EFI. I come from drag racing background so who doesn't love blower surge!!!

 

[ArizonaKevin]

George I swear man you probably leave more boat knowledge in the toilet every morning than I will ever have. Thank you for sharing your experience

 

[sintax]

I appreciate the responses and experiences. I was asking as I am comparing costs of the two and the deal on the whipple seems pretty good but is considerably more than say a used old gale banks setup. My next step is to contact boost power and see about a newer style turbo system with EFI. I come from drag racing background so who doesn't love blower surge!!!

Those new EFI TT setups are no joke, last time I checked they were about 3-4x what you could pick up a used Banks setup

 

[SBMech]

Those new EFI TT setups are no joke, last time I checked they were about 3-4x what you could pick up a used Banks setup

They also run better, produce more power, and get far better economy while being 3x as reliable.

You get what you pay for.....

 

[sintax]

They also run better, produce more power, and get far better economy while being 3x as reliable.

You get what you pay for.....

I'm very confident that is the case, there is no question that EFI is light years ahead in all aspects. It just comes with a bit of a sticker shock.

I'm also interested in maybe doing one of those EFI whipple setups like Aaron did on his yellow Schiada, that is a low profile EFI blower. I'm pretty sure that boostpower did that one for him.

 

[sintax]

This is the setup i'm thinking of....

https://whipplesuperchargers.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=404

 

[SBMech]

This is the setup i'm thinking of....

https://whipplesuperchargers.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=404

10k seems like a cheap buy in to me for that amount of tech. Haha too bad the person writing for them has no clue..."the W200AX Whipple Charger that is 3.3 liters in displacement, the cast aluminum throttle body with 8 injector ports" what a dipshit haha. There is no way a belt driven supercharger can do this.. "the Whipple Charger can generate full boost at any rpm"...boost increases as RPM's increase...says to me that no one important is actually supervising advertising...or it's done in house by a moron.

 

[HighVoltage329]

Not sure I understand your comments. My experience is boost will spike up higher at low RPM when you nail it then settle down as engine RPM increases.

 

[Enen]

I know where a pair of brand new Brummett EFI Twin Turbo engines are sitting, waiting for a new owner.

 

[Melloyellovector]

I know where a pair of brand new Brummett EFI Twin Turbo engines are sitting, waiting for a new owner.

Can I get the easy payment plan on one of them

 

[sintax]

"the Whipple Charger can generate full boost at any rpm"...boost increases as RPM's increase...says to me that no one important is actually supervising advertising...or it's done in house by a moron.

Marketing wank is just that..... marketing wank.

All that being said, It seems like a very solid way to get a friendly setup without getting into turbo plumbing hell

 

[sintax]

Can I get the easy payment plan on one of them

#MeToo , I could do monthly installments

 

[spectras only]

The boat in the photo does not have cavitation plates, and so it was rigged with the prop "way back", to lift the tail and drive the nose in for a smooth ride . They also used oversized props (13", 14") and low gears to power the boat thru the water, instead of "gliding over the top" .


Moving the strut and the V-drive forward (aprox. 16") while leaving the motor back, the existing 10 degrees of shaft angle would definitely hold the nose up, well into the 80's . I also don't recall the Howard's having any significant "hook" that would slow them down under 100 .

I like these 24's (under 1000 hp) at; "8 to 8.5 degrees of shaft angle" (6" strut center line), prop 30" from transom (+-), motor and trans motor plate 16" (top of stringer) . Yes, this places the V-drive within a foot of the cabin bulkhead . The motor/trans combo should end up with the prop directly under the numbers #5 and #6 cylinders of the motor . Velvet's are shorter, but heavier, so it's the same to me . SK style 1 1/8" stainless or steel 12" rudder (single hull fin), TWO cables (under extension) for steering (or chain and cable), never used a steering gearbox on one .

Hi George, my friend called me back, he measured the prop is 12" from the transom. I think the prop I had was 13 X 15, he has a 14 X 16 now, don't know the rake. The hull was totally straight, no hook at all. My 20 Spectra was the same, despite people reporting a lot of hook on those. As you know the Ace Champions were under driven by 4%. Never got to flip it over before sold the boat to my friend. I could flip the Ace to overdrive but moving the strut is out of the question at this time. Only sold the boat because it had a very wet ride in the ocean, with spray coming over the low profile deck . I may end up bringing the boat up to my place in lake country, since my buddy will spend time here racing his cars too at Area 27.

Most of those "non-plate" rigged boats had bolt on bronze struts . I'd glass up the holes, gel for color, or at least Marine Tex the outside for water proofing . Fab up a nice stainless drop thru strut, and re-rig the boat .

By doing this, it will safely go as fast as you can afford ..............

 

[AzGeo]

This is the setup i'm thinking of....

https://whipplesuperchargers.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=404

That package is a proven 750 HP deal, but I thought you were talking BIG POWER .

A 540 with "non-CNC Dart heads", hydraulic roller, 8-71, 2 X 850's, and a clean flowing exhaust will easily make 1000 HP @ 7000 RPMs on pump gas . It can be adjusted (rich idle) to have "surge", or not . It's all "off the shelf parts", and it is just one of the ways to make POWER on a reasonable budget, for a V-DRIVE/T-400 CRUISER, but not a shifting I/O .

That EFI screwcharger kit is nice, but after you spend the $10K, you will need to spend another $19K +, to get a motor under it, and all for just 750 HP .

At 750 HP, you could build a 572/632 with an EFI intake and make an "NA" 750 HP easily . "NA" motors never have as strong of a torque curve, as a "turbo or blower motors", so I would first decide what kind of hull and drive system you want to use .

Then look at power levels, and their costs .

IF you are looking at only 750/850 HP, re-consider that used Banks (draw thru) set up, and place a 800/1000 CFM throttle body EFI on top of it . You can make some simple "spacers" for the manifolds to risers, or risers to turbo bases (waste gate mounts?) install an "O2 sensor" in one (or both), and enjoy EFI low speed manners, and great turbo torque . This kind of combo would not require 500" of motor, just a "nice clean" 454 + with good parts and assembly .

 

[sintax]

I didnt realize they did not support 1000+ HP, that is my error. I'll keep a close tab on this thread as i'll be there sooner than later.

 

[Enen]

Can I get the easy payment plan on one of them

If they were mine, I'd extend you credit..

 

[vdcruiser]

That package is a proven 750 HP deal, but I thought you were talking BIG POWER .

A 540 with "non-CNC Dart heads", hydraulic roller, 8-71, 2 X 850's, and a clean flowing exhaust will easily make 1000 HP @ 7000 RPMs on pump gas . It can be adjusted (rich idle) to have "surge", or not . It's all "off the shelf parts", and it is just one of the ways to make POWER on a reasonable budget, for a V-DRIVE/T-400 CRUISER, but not a shifting I/O .

That EFI screwcharger kit is nice, but after you spend the $10K, you will need to spend another $19K +, to get a motor under it, and all for just 750 HP .

At 750 HP, you could build a 572/632 with an EFI intake and make an "NA" 750 HP easily . "NA" motors never have as strong of a torque curve, as a "turbo or blower motors", so I would first decide what kind of hull and drive system you want to use .

Then look at power levels, and their costs .

IF you are looking at only 750/850 HP, re-consider that used Banks (draw thru) set up, and place a 800/1000 CFM throttle body EFI on top of it . You can make some simple "spacers" for the manifolds to risers, or risers to turbo bases (waste gate mounts?) install an "O2 sensor" in one (or both), and enjoy EFI low speed manners, and great turbo torque . This kind of combo would not require 500" of motor, just a "nice clean" 454 + with good parts and assembly .

This is what I was thinking George, The screw blower and EFI setup is great and has a lot of technology, but the cost is way more than the roots blower/ carb setup and the power with the roots is pretty damn good. And with a hydraulic roller the maintainence is minimal . Of course I was thinking V drive for reliability.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Is a big big EFI N/A motor an option?

What are these guys getting out of these big 600+ CI engines? Maybe good drivabiltiy without the need for all the extra bolt ons, plumbing and money?

Big inch chevy NA/injected - That'd be my pick for best bang for buck and boating vs wrenching -

My Boostpower 588 makes 725 HP and 800FT LB- on a manifold. Idles like a kitten. (a 725HP kitten)

" Something like that " ought put at least some hustle in a day cruiser.

You could probably do it on the cheap and on a carb and save some dough.

Once you get past the high 500 inches into the 6's - parts get expensive.

either way I want a ride.

UD

 

[Classic Daycruiser]

I am still conflicted as to what to do for my repower....

Turbo Diesel

 

[River Lynchmob]

Can I get the easy payment plan on one of them

They are selling them pretty cheap with only dyno time on them.

 

[River Lynchmob]

You need one of these...Brummett 540" EFI TT. On av makes 1400 ish HP and pump is 1200 ish HP. Or you could go for one of his new double throw down TT engines that's making close to 2000 HP on race fuel. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see a plumbing nightmare.

 

[Tahoe540]

Big inch chevy NA/injected - That'd be my pick for best bang for buck and boating vs wrenching -

My Boostpower 588 makes 725 HP and 800FT LB- on a manifold. Idles like a kitten. (a 725HP kitten)

" Something like that " ought put at least some hustle in a day cruiser.

You could probably do it on the cheap and on a carb and save some dough.

Once you get past the high 500 inches into the 6's - parts get expensive.

either way I want a ride.

UD

I am building a 555 NA BBC for my offshore boat now just to be a bulletproof low maintenance piece. I would agree a 700-800hp NA motor is no slouch but I have never built or had a boosted motor. We have only had our current boat for one year and I have the bug bad now so looking for a day cruiser hot rod boat. A v-drive is so much cheaper to go fast than an outdrive that can handle over 1000hp.

 

[sintax]

You need one of these...Brummett 540" EFI TT. On av makes 1400 ish HP and pump is 1200 ish HP. Or you could go for one of his new double throw down TT engines that's making close to 2000 HP on race fuel. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see a plumbing nightmare.

Man now thats sexy. I'd even lose the hatch for one of those.

I have some time before I need to make the decision,

 

[River Lynchmob]

Man now thats sexy. I'd even lose the hatch for one of those.

I have some time before I need to make the decision,

That's good...Brummett is a year out on builds right now.

 

[Hammer]

You need one of these...Brummett 540" EFI TT. On av makes 1400 ish HP and pump is 1200 ish HP. Or you could go for one of his new double throw down TT engines that's making close to 2000 HP on race fuel. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see a plumbing nightmare. View attachment 621146 View attachment 621148

If I had your money I’d buy two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[obnoxious001]

I was asking as I am comparing costs of the two and the deal on the whipple seems pretty good but is considerably more than say a used old gale banks setup.

The power level will be entirely different as well, the old Banks, PFM and Race Aero systems were designed around 454 cubic inches, so the turbochargers were optimized for that displacement. Even when guys started building 496's, the turbo exhaust housings needed to be changed for larger ones. You are comparing grapes to watermelons.

 

[Melloyellovector]

They are selling them pretty cheap with only dyno time on them.

What’s cheap? When I talked to Carson about one when Linder and Murray’s were there he was 100k or I could save some by using some used parts
I talked to Barry about snatching up that all aluminum motor he’s got. But AJ sounded like he was gonna shoot out his tampon if I got it.
If I picked up a brummett motor I might as well start another project to go with it
Might as well just wait for your swiffer (dust collector) goes up for sale

 

[Enen]

What’s cheap? When I talked to Carson about one when Linder and Murray’s were there he was 100k or I could save some by using some used parts
I talked to Barry about snatching up that all aluminum motor he’s got. But AJ sounded like he was gonna shoot out his tampon if I got it.
If I picked up a brummett motor I might as well start another project to go with it
Might as well just wait for your swiffer (dust collector) goes up for sale

These particular engines were going to be run in a big Apache. The owner decided to go with big blower engines. They are a DEAL for Brummett power with dyno time. Currently they are set up for #6 drives. You would have to make a few changes to run them in a V-Drive. 1500-2000 according to Carson to have them setup for a V-drive application.

This guy has two engines, one for your current boat, and one for a new project...

 

[Melloyellovector]

These particular engines were going to be run in a big Apache. The owner decided to go with big blower engines. They are a DEAL for Brummett power with dyno time. Currently they are set up for #6 drives. You would have to make a few changes to run them in a V-Drive. 1500-2000 according to Carson to have them setup for a V-drive application.

This guy has two engines, one for your current boat, and one for a new project...

Shit I guess I could put one in the vector and one in the 210 and change out to #6 on both. Vern offered me a “deal” if I ever need, lol

 

[River Lynchmob]

What’s cheap? When I talked to Carson about one when Linder and Murray’s were there he was 100k or I could save some by using some used parts
I talked to Barry about snatching up that all aluminum motor he’s got. But AJ sounded like he was gonna shoot out his tampon if I got it.
If I picked up a brummett motor I might as well start another project to go with it
Might as well just wait for your swiffer (dust collector) goes up for sale

I want to say in the $60s for each.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[vdcruiser]

Any decisions been made on this project yet, summer is coming. Nothing like a Hot Rod V drive cruiser.

 

[Tahoe540]

Actually I spoke to the wife about a second boat instead of just bringing it home like I normally would and she was very open to a smaller boat. So the search for a nice open bow hull that can take some HP has started. I would prefer a closed bow but I can compromise as we have small kids and friends with kids so the extra seating would be nice. She asked me if it will be fast and I told her probably. Went with a friend to pick this up on Sunday so I am motivated.

 

[wsuwrhr]

She looks awfully familiar. Cant quite place the boat.

Brian

Actually I spoke to the wife about a second boat instead of just bringing it home like I normally would and she was very open to a smaller boat. So the search for a nice open bow hull that can take some HP has started. I would prefer a closed bow but I can compromise as we have small kids and friends with kids so the extra seating would be nice. She asked me if it will be fast and I told her probably. Went with a friend to pick this up on Sunday so I am motivated. View attachment 622366

 

[Tahoe540]

my buddy bought it out of Fresno. The story the guy told us was it used to be owned by the guy who started life line vests. It came with two custom vests with really cool zip up bags. It is a 1977 DiMarco 5/8 runner bottom with original engine. He is pretty happy with his purchase for sure.

 

[sintax]

"She's a beaut Clark!"

 

[oldschool]

Actually I spoke to the wife about a second boat instead of just bringing it home like I normally would and she was very open to a smaller boat. So the search for a nice open bow hull that can take some HP has started. I would prefer a closed bow but I can compromise as we have small kids and friends with kids so the extra seating would be nice. She asked me if it will be fast and I told her probably. Went with a friend to pick this up on Sunday so I am motivated. View attachment 622366

Kids like the open bow and love the swim step. I like the turbos and v drive. Win/Win.

 

[Tahoe540]

So I was on Facebook today and Bad AZZ's Boats page showed some cool Banks turbo setup so I looked into it and Gale Banks was on posting some cool stuff. Got into a short conversation and he said "we’re doing a whole new system based on an updated version of our manifold design and everything else is new, including the turbos. This system will be injected." Very happy to hear about this so hopefully will hear when it will be available and all the details.

 

[sintax]

So I was on Facebook today and Bad AZZ's Boats page showed some cool Banks turbo setup so I looked into it and Gale Banks was on posting some cool stuff. Got into a short conversation and he said "we’re doing a whole new system based on an updated version of our manifold design and everything else is new, including the turbos. This system will be injected." Very happy to hear about this so hopefully will hear when it will be available and all the details.

I wouldn't even imagine this kinda stuff would be on their radar anymore. Super cool to see and hear that, I'd love to see what it ends up being once some specs are released.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Peeps do shit because they love it, or still know and don't want to get away where they came from. Even if it doesn't make sense sometimes.

I wouldn't even imagine this kinda stuff would be on their radar anymore. Super cool to see and hear that, I'd love to see what it ends up being once some specs are released.