Better half ton

[Snprhed]

I have a 2005 escalade (truck). For the purposes of this discussion, I'd like to focus on the suspension. I have a lowering kit in the truck (Just to remove the rake angle) and there is a functioning airbag leveler.

My issue is the boat pushes the truck around more than I'd like. The boat weight is 4600lbs, and towing capacity is 7300lbs. I was thinking maybe the stock springs are a little soft to accomplish the "Cadillac ride".

am I thinking right here?

 

[pronstar]

Tow ratings are as equipped from the factory.

Describe the lowering kit and its components, and wheels/tires.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Motor Boater]

I had a Tahoe that got thrown around when semi trucks would pass on the freeway. It had tall tires with very little sidewalk strength. I went to a 20” wheel and smaller stiffer tire and the problem went away. If your in stock tires and wheels I bet that’s your problem.

 

[4Waters]

The EXT is actually an SUV not a P/U it does not have leaf springs in the rear it has coil springs so it won't tow/feel the same as a regular 1/2 ton. It capable of the load but won't feel the same.

 

[Snprhed]

Ok so it has 20" rims and this lowering kit http://mcgaughys.com/products/deluxe-kit-33047

 

[Snprhed]

The EXT is actually an SUV not a P/U it does not have leaf springs in the rear it has coil springs so it won't tow/feel the same as a regular 1/2 ton. It capable of the load but won't feel the same.

Ok so what can I do to make it "feel" better

 

[rvrrun]

I'm no good with the later stuff, but does that vehicle have rear sway bar? And, if it's rear coil there must be something locating the rear? If not, add a panhard.

The only other thought I have is swapping the stock bushings for something less compliant.

 

[4Waters]

Ok so what can I do to make it "feel" better

I'm not sure that you can hopefully someone here will have an answer. My boat weighs 4500lbs and I have towed it behind my wife's Expedition and it feels completely different than behind my truck.

 

[Snprhed]

I'm no good with the later stuff, but does that vehicle have rear sway bar? And, if it's rear coil there must be something locating the rear? If not, add a panhard.

The only other thought I have is swapping the stock bushings for something less compliant.

Whats a panhard?

 

[pronstar]

Whats a panhard?

It laterally locates the rear axle to prevent side-to-side movement.

Without it, there’s nothing substantial to prevent unwanted lateral movement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[4Waters]

Whats a panhard?

It's a bar that locates/keeps the rear end centered in the chassis, leaf springs would normally do this but since your p/u has coil springs in the rear you need a panhard bar. It's in there it's not something that you need to add, but it's something you might be able to upgrade.

 

[rvrrun]

Whats a panhard?

A lateral rod locating the rear end to center with one end mounted to the rear and the other to the frame. They are common on coil sprung cars. I would assume yours is some sort of four link with triangulated upper arms to locate the rear. Maybe that's not enough to keep it in place while towing which is why I brought up a panhard.

 

[Uncle Dave]

I had a Tahoe that got thrown around when semi trucks would pass on the freeway. It had tall tires with very little sidewalk strength. I went to a 20” wheel and smaller stiffer tire and the problem went away. If your in stock tires and wheels I bet that’s your problem.

Yup - the stock tires arent helping as they are tuned for ride - not tow control.

A vehicles ride has a great deal to do with the flexibility of the sidewall it acts as a secondary suspension - an in the OP's case contributing to the wallowing around he's feeling under load.

Stiffen up the assembly with something like a smaller harder 10 ply tire and towing control improves, but the ride stiffens up.

You can't have this one both ways.

The lowering kit adds a layer of unknown into the mix.


UD

 

[Snprhed]

Can someone suggest a good quality (panhard) kit, a quick search pulls up the generic carparts.com and similar

 

[rvrrun]

Yup - the stock tires arent helping as they are tuned for ride - not tow control.

A vehicles ride has a great deal to do with the flexibility of the sidewall it acts as a secondary suspension - an in the OP's case contributing to the wallowing around he's feeling under load.

Stiffen up the assembly with something like a smaller harder 10 ply tire and towing control improves, but the ride stiffens up.

You can't have this one both ways.

The lowering kit adds a layer of unknown into the mix.


UD

The op said he's got 20's on it. The lowering kit is springs in the rear and drop spindles in front, that's just going to lower the CG and help.

 

[johnnyC]

if you have coil springs you have a panhard bar or you couldn't go down the road with out the rear axel going sideways out of the car, rebush the panhard bar with polyurethane bushings, and check your air pressure, run the max rated pressure in the tires, with 20's the sidewall should be relatively short so that shouldn't be the problem. with taller narrow tires sidewall flex can be a problem, sometimes air pressure is all it takes!

 

[rvrrun]

Can someone suggest a good quality (panhard) kit, a quick search pulls up the generic carparts.com and similar

Kit for what?

 

[rvrrun]

if you have coil springs you have a panhard bar or you couldn't go down the road with out the rear axel going sideways out of the car

That's not true.

 

[Uncle Dave]

The op said he's got 20's on it. The lowering kit is springs in the rear and drop spindles in front, that's just going to lower the CG and help.

It isn't so much the tire diameter but the plies and amount of sidewall flex in them.

Ive seen drop kits change geometry and make things worse, and ones that made things better so I couldn't say, but introduce it as an unknown.

 

[johnnyC]

That's not true.

go around a corner with out one on a coil spring vehicle and see how well it works out for you , bet your wheel wells won't like it

 

[rvrrun]

go around a corner with out one on a coil spring vehicle and see how well it works out for you , bet your wheel wells won't like it

You've never seen a G or A body GM vehicle?

 

[pronstar]

It isn't so much the tire diameter but the plies and amount of sidewall flex in them.

Ive seen drop kits change geometry and make things worse, and ones that made things better so I couldn't say, but introduce it as an unknown.

Exactly.
22’s and rubber band sidewalls aren’t great for towing.

17’s with Load Range E tires and thick sidewalls are great for towing.

I bet it’s a combination of aftermarket springs (tuned for comfort not capacity) and tires that’s the issue. Potentially also worn shocks.

Question for OP:
Has it ever towed great with this setup?
Or has it always been this way?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[rvrrun]

It isn't so much the tire diameter but the plies and amount of sidewall flex in them.

Ive seen drop kits change geometry and make things worse, and ones that made things better so I couldn't say, but introduce it as an unknown.

I wouldn't think sidewall flex on a 20 would be a problem. The front geometry is stock and the rear has 2" of droop via the spring. I'd be looking for the problem elsewhere.

 

[TBI]

Better half ton

That's how my wife refers to me....

 

[Uncle Dave]

I wouldn't think sidewall flex on a 20 would be a problem. The front geometry is stock and the rear has 2" of droop via the spring. I'd be looking for the problem elsewhere.

Its only a part of the equation - but its a part.

There is a reason dedicated tow vehicles come with lots pf plies and very stiff sidewalls -tow and load capacity and control

Downside is they don't have that "cadillac ride".

UD

 

[4Waters]

You've never seen a G or A body GM vehicle?

They have triangulated 4 link like the fox body mustang so they didn't need a panhard bar.

 

[KENDOG689]

A Watts link will keep the rear end centered at all times compared to a panhard bar.

 

[rvrrun]

They have triangulated 4 link like the fox body mustang so they didn't need a panhard bar.

Exactly!

...I forgot about fox's

 

[rvrrun]

A Watts link will keep the rear end centered at all times compared to a panhard bar.

Try to fit a watts in anything late model. It's bad enough on earlier cars.

 

[SoCalDave]

We had an 06 Escalade and it towed our 210 (3,600lb +baggage)to the river and back just fine. Never had and issues with it pushing the SUV around. Suspension was stock but I did replace the stock shocks and that alone seemed to make a difference in ride/towing control. Also had 07 22'' wheels fitted.
The stock air leveling suspension utilizes the shocks for load leveling.
Maybe your tongue weight is not enough.
If the trailer is dual axle maybe consider adding a third axle like the Shiada guys do.

 

[SoCalDave]

Scratch that third axle recommendation as it wouldn't make it off the trailer.

 

[rvrrun]

I just googled it and looked at pics. All I could find was an '07, but that had parallel four link and panhard which kills my ideas except for worn bushings to broken parts.

Tongue weight is a good thought as well as existing issue or did it just start recently.

 

[SoCalDave]

To little tongue weight ad it will want to lift the rear end of the truck/SUV at times.

 

[KENDOG689]

Try to fit a watts in anything late model. It's bad enough on earlier cars.

Got it but you can really mount them high or low to clear.

 

[Snprhed]

I just googled it and looked at pics. All I could find was an '07, but that had parallel four link and panhard which kills my ideas except for worn bushings to broken parts.

Tongue weight is a good thought as well as existing issue or did it just start recently.

For this boat it's never been a great puller. I did go from a tandem trailer for this boat to a triple axle extreme trailer and didn't notice a whole lot of change. It pulls my 22 foot stingray on a tandem trailer like a champ. That is why I figured it was a weight thing

 

[Bigbore500r]

You've never seen a G or A body GM vehicle?

Those are 4 link equipped vehicles. Not the same, no panhard rod

 

[Snprhed]

That's how my wife refers to me....

That right there is funny

 

[Snprhed]

So right now, we are looking at a panhard bushing upgrade, and possibly new tires with a higher ply sidewall.

 

[Bigbore500r]

For this boat it's never been a great puller. I did go from a tandem trailer for this boat to a triple axle extreme trailer and didn't notice a whole lot of change. It pulls my 22 foot stingray on a tandem trailer like a champ. That is why I figured it was a weight thing

Is it the EXT escalade (long wheelbase, suburban based or the shorter tahoe based escalade? The short wheelbase plays into this alot, i used to pull my 22' day cruiser around behind my 04 tahoe and my 01 silverado 1500 extended cab short bed. The truck handled it no problem, no sway. The tahoe would get thrown all over the place.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

So right now, we are looking at a panhard bushing upgrade, and possibly new tires with a higher ply sidewall.

You need bigger sway bars, front and rear. The panhard bushings are not going to do much of anything unless they are worn out now.

An adjustable panhard rod with poly bushings is about $125

Sway bars wont change the ride at all, and will stiffen up the swaying of the vehicle you are experiencing. That and different tires will help. I would do the sway bars first.

$350 for both front and rear.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bel-9910/overview/year/2005/make/cadillac/model/escalade-ext

 

[rvrrun]

Those are 4 link equipped vehicles. Not the same, no panhard rod

Exactly my point.

 

[Snprhed]

Is it the EXT escalade (long wheelbase, suburban based or the shorter tahoe based escalade? The short wheelbase plays into this alot, i used to pull my 22' day cruiser around behind my 04 tahoe and my 01 silverado 1500 extended cab short bed. The truck handled it no problem, no sway. The tahoe would get thrown all over the place.

Ext, the truck version like a 1500 avalanche

 

[4Waters]

Those are 4 link equipped vehicles. Not the same, no panhard rod

Exactly my point.

There are 2 types of 4 link triangulated and parallel, triangulated is generally used on factory cars G body, A body, fox body etc.... and do not require a panhard bar. Parallel are typically used on drag cars like prostock, promod etc.... and do require a panhard bar.

 

[Snprhed]

Isn't there a hitch system that is supposed to help with that as well

 

[ChevelleSB406]

Watt's links are cool. My buddy has one on his impala wagon, but center connector mounted vertically, most commonly seen that way I think. The gif is cool too though.

 

[Snprhed]

Watt's links are cool. My buddy has one on his impala wagon, but center connector mounted vertically, most commonly seen that way I think. The gif is cool too though.
View attachment 644648

thats pretty snazzy

Chevelle clearly brought his A game. Nobody else included gifs.

 

[bk2drvr]

OP, did you delete the Magnaride Shocks when you lowered it? And in doing so remove the rear air bag shocks for a gas replacement?

 

[Ricks raft]

We had an 06 Escalade and it towed our 210 (3,600lb +baggage)to the river and back just fine. Never had and issues with it pushing the SUV around. Suspension was stock but I did replace the stock shocks and that alone seemed to make a difference in ride/towing control. Also had 07 22'' wheels fitted.
The stock air leveling suspension utilizes the shocks for load leveling.
Maybe your tongue weight is not enough.
If the trailer is dual axle maybe consider adding a third axle like the Shiada guys do.

I had 07 escalade ext. towed a hallett 255 mcob. Towed pretty well, not like my 04 2500hd, but not scary. Loaded with 6 people food, supplies, etc for a week on houseboat all the way to Powell you had to pay attention to avoid panic situations but a 255 is a LOT heavier than 210.
For the op I believe stock mine had xl rated tires, so maybe move up to LT tires with stiffer side walls, Some stiffer bushings, and maybe bigger sway bars.

 

[Snprhed]

OP, did you delete the Magnaride Shocks when you lowered it? And in doing so remove the rear air bag shocks for a gas replacement?

no, still using them

 

[Runs2rch]

no, still using them

How many miles on them? They do crap out. For my customers I run Z71 springs and 4600 or 5100 Bilsteins depending on the setup.