Bad Start To The Weekend

[Tommy Gun Images]

It's pretty simple for me ...

If you come up behind a jet ski assume they are idiots and slow down - as much as needed to be sure they don't do something stupid in front of you.

Then after you make eye contact - slowly and carefully pass with care.

Then mash the throttle and leave them safely behind in your wake[emoji1360]

Then mother fuck them to everybody onboard the rest of the run to pirates [emoji12]

Spot on. Good post...

 

[milkmoney]

It's pretty simple for me ...

If you come up behind a jet ski assume they are idiots and slow down - as much as needed to be sure they don't do something stupid in front of you.

Then after you make eye contact - slowly and carefully pass with care.

Then mash the throttle and leave them safely behind in your wake[emoji1360]

Then mother fuck them to everybody onboard the rest of the run to pirates [emoji12]

I will approach every vessel with caution , pwc, boat, canoe and kayak , I am not sure why ur an idiot when ur on a pwc and not any other kind of vessel , I know there are a lot of responsible boat owners that ride all kinds of PWC's ,

So apparently by your post I have only been an idiot multiple times in my life.

Yes I agree with the under age and the rental and the uneducated pwc riders are dangerous , although so are the boaters that for that bill too. I have had the pwc rides do the cut me off stuff also. [emoji202]

 

[DRYHEAT]

License and training..... Anything is better than nothing. Nothing is what we currently have

All the training and licensing in the world isn't going to prevent people from doing stupid things.

Licensing just creates another bureaucracy for our government to charge us lots of money because we are all so unsafe.
I think most would agree it hasn't worked for shit on the public highways.

Sometimes I think these rental agencies should all be banned, but that's not fair it takes away somebody's livelihood, and who knows I might want to rent a boat on a lake somewhere.

Accidents are going to happen, unfortunately it is what it is.

 

[Stainless]

I took the 8 hr boating safety course put on by AZGFD to get an insurance discount. I have to tell you I learned a lot about navigation rules and a lot of other stuff. At the end of the day the knowledge gained was far more beneficial than the insurance discount. I would be a proponent of a mandatory boating safety course. I realize this disrupts the rental boat industry but they probably need it the most.

 

[DRYHEAT]

I took the 8 hr boating safety course put on by AZGFD to get an insurance discount. I have to tell you I learned a lot about navigation rules and a lot of other stuff. At the end of the day the knowledge gained was far more beneficial than the insurance discount. I would be a proponent of a mandatory boating safety course. I realize this disrupts the rental boat industry but they probably need it the most.

I don't discount gaining knowledge, I took classes 35 years ago, for insurance discount purposes.
My point was aimed at licensing and the fact that everybody at one time or another does something stupid including myself.
I am all for people taking educational classes when they enter into a new activity/sport, unfortunately most people who come out and rent a JetSki for a day or a pontoon, are not going to invest in educating themselves.

 

[guest hs]

I stay as far away as possible from any jet skis 3 years ago I had one following me I had to stop and fix a strap on my Bimini top and he planted the ski on my back engine hatch put several holes in my boat and sent a passenger of mine to the trauma center via helicopter!

 

[DRYHEAT]

I do the same, I've had to come off plane more times than I can count to avoid an erratically moving Jet ski

 

[RVR2SNO]

If it was a V bottom and not a cat, wonder if the outcome would be different.

Please explain. I've only been in V's and have never rode in a cat.

I presume too sharp of turn and a sponson digs in and gets buried.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Please explain. I've only been in V's and have never rode in a cat.

I presume too sharp of turn and a sponson digs in and gets buried.

Exactly. Same thing happened a couple labor days weekends ago with the Orange F32. Driver came up on shallow water and turned too sharp burying the sponson. Same area too as a matter of fact.

 

[GRADS]

Speed Limits and Life Vests.

 

[riverroyal]

All the training and licensing in the world isn't going to prevent people from doing stupid things.

Licensing just creates another bureaucracy for our government to charge us lots of money because we are all so unsafe.
I think most would agree it hasn't worked for shit on the public highways.

Sometimes I think these rental agencies should all be banned, but that's not fair it takes away somebody's livelihood, and who knows I might want to rent a boat on a lake somewhere.

Accidents are going to happen, unfortunately it is what it is.

It always goes back to government.

I'm not going to type a bunch of crap, I already did in a different thread regarding jet skies and training etc. I've logged more hours on pwc's than everyone on this website combined. I've taught pwc classes, I've trained racers and I've worked hand in hand with life guards and harbor patrols. Im also a former state, national and world champion. A license will help, that's all. It's better than nothing. Basic education works, I've lived it
If this was really a rental ski and the company did not fully instruct the renter then screw their livelihood. A mom and dad just lost a child. Do you think those parents give a fuck about bureaucracy this morning?

It has worked on highways, simply because we have never seen it without! Imagine how that would be? Here's you car, your fine go drive. Here's you 600pd 60mph watercraft, have fun you'll be fine .

On a side note, everyone have a safe holiday tomorrow.

 

[nowski]

I took the 8 hr boating safety course put on by AZGFD to get an insurance discount. I have to tell you I learned a lot about navigation rules and a lot of other stuff. At the end of the day the knowledge gained was far more beneficial than the insurance discount. I would be a proponent of a mandatory boating safety course. I realize this disrupts the rental boat industry but they probably need it the most.

I took the same course a couple of years ago and at the end of the day (I thought I new it all) I actually learned something. One thing I learned is that "Every Operator is Responsible for Avoiding a Collision". So if you the boater takes evasive action to avoid an accident (not to put your crew at risk) and the jet skier does nothing all I can do at that point is to pray for the jet skier...

 

[DRYHEAT]

It always goes back to government.

I'm not going to type a bunch of crap, I already did in a different thread regarding jet skies and training etc. I've logged more hours on pwc's than everyone on this website combined. I've taught pwc classes, I've trained racers and I've worked hand in hand with life guards and harbor patrols. Im also a former state, national and world champion. A license will help, that's all. It's better than nothing. Basic education works, I've lived it
If this was really a rental ski and the company did not fully instruct the renter then screw their livelihood. A mom and dad just lost a child. Do you think those parents give a fuck about bureaucracy this morning?

It has worked on highways, simply because we have never seen it without! Imagine how that would be? Here's you car, your fine go drive. Here's you 600pd 60mph watercraft, have fun you'll be fine .

On a side note, everyone have a safe holiday tomorrow.

That's fine, we will agree to disagree. Have a nice weekend.

 

[riverroyal]

That's fine, we will agree to disagree. Have a nice weekend.

That wasn't directed at you by the way. Just sayin...
I hate pwc's now. Because there is a right and wrong way to operate them. They are still treated like toys after decades.
I stay clear of them, I can also spot a good operator as I approach. Unfortunately most are horrible. Most also don't own the particular craft they are on. So zero experience or basic knowledge, just because you turn left doesn't mean your going left all the time. Give it gas has to turn is the biggest issue.

Accidents will happen no matter what, I agree on that 100%.

RR

 

[SRice]

I will approach every vessel with caution , pwc, boat, canoe and kayak , I am not sure why ur an idiot when ur on a pwc and not any other kind of vessel , I know there are a lot of responsible boat owners that ride all kinds of PWC's ,

So apparently by your post I have only been an idiot multiple times in my life.

Yes I agree with the under age and the rental and the uneducated pwc riders are dangerous , although so are the boaters that for that bill too. I have had the pwc rides do the cut me off stuff also. [emoji202]

Many of you are starting to use GoPro on your boats. If you provide me with video of any vessel including PWCs and kayaks violating the nav rules and creating an unsafe condition, I will pursue it if I can identify the vessel. The lack of hull numbers on kayaks makes those difficult, but some of the big groups may be tracked down through the three companies renting them locally. IMO the state should consider registering paddlecraft as well as motorboats- some states do and it generates a little money but it also seems fair to treat all boats the same and the identification issue is important to me. I also favor mandatory boater education for all (again personal opinion not agency policy) and have dismissed certain tickets for people who took the online class. One poster commented that mandating these will not end all stupid behavior on the river, and I agree. But complete elimination of hazards is rarely the goal of public safety laws for that very reason. The goal is a REDUCTION in unsafe behavior much like in medicine where a doctor would be thrilled to get a new drug which cures cancer in only half the patients. Final sure to be controversial topic- many of us have seen accidents in this area at the mouth of the river. FWS obviously got an earful over the no wake zone they proposed along the Arizona shoreline here and I have privately suggested redrawing that no wake to EXCLUDE the center channel most of us use to enter the river. Here is a thought that goes in the exact opposite direction. What about two no wake lanes to enter and exit the river? Outbound traffic exclusively uses the Havasu Marine Association's dredged no wake while inbound traffic exclusively uses a new no wake zone contouring around the island and into center channel (the yellow/green route identified in a post several days ago). There is a lot of unsafe crossing which occurs here, not to mention the antics of PWCs and others around motorboats constrained to a relatively narrow channel. Would a 200 yard no wake save lives and be worth a few minute delay in reaching PC? I know you guys hate the Feds doing anything so perhaps an initiative like this would be more palatable if (like the dredged channel and the I40 no wake zones) it came from you, the Havasu Marine Association, or Arizona Game and Fish. Try not to freak out on me guys- I'm just thinking aloud about problems you identified in this post. I'm offering the same sort of personal ideas you guys kick around and not trying to roll out any FWS agenda. Let the ball busting begin.

 

[MSum661]

Many of you are starting to use GoPro on your boats. If you provide me with video of any vessel including PWCs and kayaks violating the nav rules and creating an unsafe condition, I will pursue it if I can identify the vessel.

IMO. I think that would be great!
And also make the PWC rental services and private owners carry at least $500,000.00 in Liability insurance so if they are at fault for any boat related accident causing damages or injuries the innocent party could be reimbursed for any losses caused by the PWC user.

 

[milkmoney]

Many of you are starting to use GoPro on your boats. If you provide me with video of any vessel including PWCs and kayaks violating the nav rules and creating an unsafe condition, I will pursue it if I can identify the vessel. The lack of hull numbers on kayaks makes those difficult, but some of the big groups may be tracked down through the three companies renting them locally. IMO the state should consider registering paddlecraft as well as motorboats- some states do and it generates a little money but it also seems fair to treat all boats the same and the identification issue is important to me. I also favor mandatory boater education for all (again personal opinion not agency policy) and have dismissed certain tickets for people who took the online class. One poster commented that mandating these will not end all stupid behavior on the river, and I agree. But complete elimination of hazards is rarely the goal of public safety laws for that very reason. The goal is a REDUCTION in unsafe behavior much like in medicine where a doctor would be thrilled to get a new drug which cures cancer in only half the patients. Final sure to be controversial topic- many of us have seen accidents in this area at the mouth of the river. FWS obviously got an earful over the no wake zone they proposed along the Arizona shoreline here and I have privately suggested redrawing that no wake to EXCLUDE the center channel most of us use to enter the river. Here is a thought that goes in the exact opposite direction. What about two no wake lanes to enter and exit the river? Outbound traffic exclusively uses the Havasu Marine Association's dredged no wake while inbound traffic exclusively uses a new no wake zone contouring around the island and into center channel (the yellow/green route identified in a post several days ago). There is a lot of unsafe crossing which occurs here, not to mention the antics of PWCs and others around motorboats constrained to a relatively narrow channel. Would a 200 yard no wake save lives and be worth a few minute delay in reaching PC? I know you guys hate the Feds doing anything so perhaps an initiative like this would be more palatable if (like the dredged channel and the I40 no wake zones) it came from you, the Havasu Marine Association, or Arizona Game and Fish. Try not to freak out on me guys- I'm just thinking aloud about problems you identified in this post. I'm offering the same sort of personal ideas you guys kick around and not trying to roll out any FWS agenda. Let the ball busting begin.

I am not sure why you quoted me. My comments were not intended to be towards you or any agency , they were jus random to the comments by OP, I have bailed out of my comments in the other thread regarding your position and your opinion and who you are.

With that said could you please not quote me ,
Thanks. Good day .......[emoji202]

 

[cicchetti_24]

Many of you are starting to use GoPro on your boats. If you provide me with video of any vessel including PWCs and kayaks violating the nav rules and creating an unsafe condition, I will pursue it if I can identify the vessel. The lack of hull numbers on kayaks makes those difficult, but some of the big groups may be tracked down through the three companies renting them locally. IMO the state should consider registering paddlecraft as well as motorboats- some states do and it generates a little money but it also seems fair to treat all boats the same and the identification issue is important to me. I also favor mandatory boater education for all (again personal opinion not agency policy) and have dismissed certain tickets for people who took the online class. One poster commented that mandating these will not end all stupid behavior on the river, and I agree. But complete elimination of hazards is rarely the goal of public safety laws for that very reason. The goal is a REDUCTION in unsafe behavior much like in medicine where a doctor would be thrilled to get a new drug which cures cancer in only half the patients. Final sure to be controversial topic- many of us have seen accidents in this area at the mouth of the river. FWS obviously got an earful over the no wake zone they proposed along the Arizona shoreline here and I have privately suggested redrawing that no wake to EXCLUDE the center channel most of us use to enter the river. Here is a thought that goes in the exact opposite direction. What about two no wake lanes to enter and exit the river? Outbound traffic exclusively uses the Havasu Marine Association's dredged no wake while inbound traffic exclusively uses a new no wake zone contouring around the island and into center channel (the yellow/green route identified in a post several days ago). There is a lot of unsafe crossing which occurs here, not to mention the antics of PWCs and others around motorboats constrained to a relatively narrow channel. Would a 200 yard no wake save lives and be worth a few minute delay in reaching PC? I know you guys hate the Feds doing anything so perhaps an initiative like this would be more palatable if (like the dredged channel and the I40 no wake zones) it came from you, the Havasu Marine Association, or Arizona Game and Fish. Try not to freak out on me guys- I'm just thinking aloud about problems you identified in this post. I'm offering the same sort of personal ideas you guys kick around and not trying to roll out any FWS agenda. Let the ball busting begin.

That's a discussion you're asking for advice from boaters. That wasn't done before I think you'll get a lot of good ideas from boaters if you reach out in this way. I think a lot of people were angry with the way your agency went about doing this before.

If you worked with the boaters maybe everyone can come together to make boating safer, and not feel like the gov is over reaching yet again.

I don't have any suggestions right now but just wanted to point on the difference in your delivery versus what was done before.

Have a great Sunday

 

[was thatguy]

We take 6 rented PWC with inexperienced drivers and head them downriver from the dam...we take 6 drunken operators on their personally owned PWC headed upriver from a point 3 miles south.

We put a drunk in a 28' eliminator headed south 1 minute after the last ski takes off, we put a rookie in a Shiada....you get the picture.

There is no solution other than stay off the water on holidays.

 

[Outdrive1]

Nice post SRice. [emoji106]

Personally I don't think we need another no wake zone. This was probably a freak accident and slow rollover that took a combination of things going wrong all at the same time to make that boat roll. Including the pwc drivers inability to look over their shoulder before making a turn. IMO that seems to be their biggest downfall is that they don't realize traffic is coming from behind. Someone should make an instructional 5 minute video and require all rental places to show it to the renters. Show them what happens when they turn and and another vessel runs them over. Show them how to travel counter clockwise around a lake, explain the concept of a jet boat not turning when it's not under power, maybe show them what different bouys mean and what a no wake zone is, etc etc. how much time would it save the officers in Thompsons Bay if they weren't chasing the idiots down who leave the channel on plane all day?

Idk. Just an idea.

 

[Singleton]

Many of you are starting to use GoPro on your boats. If you provide me with video of any vessel including PWCs and kayaks violating the nav rules and creating an unsafe condition, I will pursue it if I can identify the vessel. The lack of hull numbers on kayaks makes those difficult, but some of the big groups may be tracked down through the three companies renting them locally. IMO the state should consider registering paddlecraft as well as motorboats- some states do and it generates a little money but it also seems fair to treat all boats the same and the identification issue is important to me. I also favor mandatory boater education for all (again personal opinion not agency policy) and have dismissed certain tickets for people who took the online class. One poster commented that mandating these will not end all stupid behavior on the river, and I agree. But complete elimination of hazards is rarely the goal of public safety laws for that very reason. The goal is a REDUCTION in unsafe behavior much like in medicine where a doctor would be thrilled to get a new drug which cures cancer in only half the patients. Final sure to be controversial topic- many of us have seen accidents in this area at the mouth of the river. FWS obviously got an earful over the no wake zone they proposed along the Arizona shoreline here and I have privately suggested redrawing that no wake to EXCLUDE the center channel most of us use to enter the river. Here is a thought that goes in the exact opposite direction. What about two no wake lanes to enter and exit the river? Outbound traffic exclusively uses the Havasu Marine Association's dredged no wake while inbound traffic exclusively uses a new no wake zone contouring around the island and into center channel (the yellow/green route identified in a post several days ago). There is a lot of unsafe crossing which occurs here, not to mention the antics of PWCs and others around motorboats constrained to a relatively narrow channel. Would a 200 yard no wake save lives and be worth a few minute delay in reaching PC? I know you guys hate the Feds doing anything so perhaps an initiative like this would be more palatable if (like the dredged channel and the I40 no wake zones) it came from you, the Havasu Marine Association, or Arizona Game and Fish. Try not to freak out on me guys- I'm just thinking aloud about problems you identified in this post. I'm offering the same sort of personal ideas you guys kick around and not trying to roll out any FWS agenda. Let the ball busting begin.

While you have some very valid points (I agree education is key and think an education class for insurance, boat purchase or rental is needed) please leave the river entrance out of the discussion.
While we have seen multiple accidents in this area they are all caused by an operator not following laws/rules already in place. Education is key, but I don't think licenses are necessary. I know a few insurance companies are thinking about requiring annual education to maintain the discount t you get and I would be OK with that.
I have used the CA no wake zone once and got rolled by multiple boats going 5-15mph throwing huge wakes. After that one trip my wife said never again!

 

[Patyacht]

Many of you are starting to use GoPro on your boats. If you provide me with video of any vessel including PWCs and kayaks violating the nav rules and creating an unsafe condition, I will pursue it if I can identify the vessel. The lack of hull numbers on kayaks makes those difficult, but some of the big groups may be tracked down through the three companies renting them locally. IMO the state should consider registering paddlecraft as well as motorboats- some states do and it generates a little money but it also seems fair to treat all boats the same and the identification issue is important to me. I also favor mandatory boater education for all (again personal opinion not agency policy) and have dismissed certain tickets for people who took the online class. One poster commented that mandating these will not end all stupid behavior on the river, and I agree. But complete elimination of hazards is rarely the goal of public safety laws for that very reason. The goal is a REDUCTION in unsafe behavior much like in medicine where a doctor would be thrilled to get a new drug which cures cancer in only half the patients. Final sure to be controversial topic- many of us have seen accidents in this area at the mouth of the river. FWS obviously got an earful over the no wake zone they proposed along the Arizona shoreline here and I have privately suggested redrawing that no wake to EXCLUDE the center channel most of us use to enter the river. Here is a thought that goes in the exact opposite direction. What about two no wake lanes to enter and exit the river? Outbound traffic exclusively uses the Havasu Marine Association's dredged no wake while inbound traffic exclusively uses a new no wake zone contouring around the island and into center channel (the yellow/green route identified in a post several days ago). There is a lot of unsafe crossing which occurs here, not to mention the antics of PWCs and others around motorboats constrained to a relatively narrow channel. Would a 200 yard no wake save lives and be worth a few minute delay in reaching PC? I know you guys hate the Feds doing anything so perhaps an initiative like this would be more palatable if (like the dredged channel and the I40 no wake zones) it came from you, the Havasu Marine Association, or Arizona Game and Fish. Try not to freak out on me guys- I'm just thinking aloud about problems you identified in this post. I'm offering the same sort of personal ideas you guys kick around and not trying to roll out any FWS agenda. Let the ball busting begin.

WOW..... Classic "Government knows best attitude" along with a heavy dose of typical Government must regulate common sense. I ain't buying a bit of it. I say Bull Shit! Where's your take on the livelihood of PC, Topock66 and of Havasu in your perfect way to regulate the area?

 

[DRYHEAT]

May be the man hours spent Manning BUI checkpoints on the river would be better spent educating/citing unsafe operators in areas like Devils elbow, Blankenship band, or the mouth of the river, but I'm sure government statistics show it's better to harass innocent boaters minding their own business.[emoji1]

 

[Outdrive1]

WOW..... Classic "Government knows best attitude" along with a heavy dose of typical Government must regulate common sense. I ain't buying a bit of it. I say Bull Shit! Where's your take on the livelihood of PC, Topock66 and of Havasu in your perfect way to regulate the area?

Pat I really don't think he came across with that attitude at all. He mentioned he'd rather have boaters take some education in lieu of a fine and proposed a 200 yard no wake zone in a high traffic congested area. While I personally don't want another no wake zone, you can see the pattern that the no wake zones follow. Usually a couple of bad accidents in a area is followed by no wake buoys.

 

[riverroyal]

Retire at 47 from SoCal and move to Havasu and teach pwc safety. Gotta be better than living here!
I'm leaving home in a few hours for the lake, my boating starts Tuesday

 

[cicchetti_24]

WOW..... Classic "Government knows best attitude" along with a heavy dose of typical Government must regulate common sense. I ain't buying a bit of it. I say Bull Shit! Where's your take on the livelihood of PC, Topock66 and of Havasu in your perfect way to regulate the area?

I agree with OD1 I don't think he came off like that at all in anyway. I felt his approach was asking for input and giving some suggestions. I've been hard on the guy and his post was a good a post in asking for suggestions and boaters take on things. OD1 is right you can see a pattern when they put up no wake zones.

I'm all for an open discussion and getting our input and using our ideas instead of back dooring an agenda.

It would make me feel like I had a hand in helping out the safety of boating something we all enjoy.

What gets me is when they back door shit and it looks shady.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

Holiday weekend boating is survival of the fittest. My dad never went on holidays and nor do I. Social Media just allows us to see what the idiots did in lieu of our absence.

You guys spend $100k or so on a boat and take it into an element reminiscent of a motor scooter in Bangkok. You sit in a line 3 hours long to boat in crappy water with a bunch of Bayliners that were just purchased by guys that shouldn't even be driving their Prius'. However, keep doing it!

I love a good Tuesday through Thursday on Parker where I have no lines, get whatever slip I want, cheap rooms, smooth clean water, and can pull up to Roadrunner for a cocktail and have no problem parking or getting a cocktail quickly.

 

[Ziggy]

I agree 150% with OD1 with requiring a short (under 15 minute) instructional video for all pwc and boat renters .
Bet there aren't any segways you can rent w/o instructions first.
.
As Royal has pointed out, most of us are quite aware of a pwc drivers capability just watching them few seconds and we should adjust accordingly well ahead of a problem situation.
I can tell you I give as wide a berth to them as I see fit......
.

 

[Ziggy]

Saw a buch of blinky red/blue lights last night on the parker strip on Ca side by the rock pile. 8:30ish or so.
Didnt look good with a bunch of land based and water based emergency vehicles and people[emoji20] [emoji20]
.
Anyone got any info on that one?

 

[SRice]

Milkman, you and others were discussing unsafe operating by PWCs which was the starting point for my post. It was convenient to hit reply to post- nothing more.

 

[SRice]

Nice post SRice. [emoji106]

Personally I don't think we need another no wake zone. This was probably a freak accident and slow rollover that took a combination of things going wrong all at the same time to make that boat roll. Including the pwc drivers inability to look over their shoulder before making a turn. IMO that seems to be their biggest downfall is that they don't realize traffic is coming from behind. Someone should make an instructional 5 minute video and require all rental places to show it to the renters. Show them what happens when they turn and and another vessel runs them over. Show them how to travel counter clockwise around a lake, explain the concept of a jet boat not turning when it's not under power, maybe show them what different bouys mean and what a no wake zone is, etc etc. how much time would it save the officers in Thompsons Bay if they weren't chasing the idiots down who leave the channel on plane all day?

Idk. Just an idea.

I think all of that is really smart, though it probably needs more than five minutes. Tim Baumgarten in AZGFD might be a good person to reach out to with a suggestion like that. I could easily see them putting together a video like that and strongly encouraging rentals to use it, even if Legislature did not mandate. Personally, I'd guess a rental company would also like to be able to say "We gave them the State's educational video so that gives us some protection from liability." And might adopt happily.

 

[cicchetti_24]

Saw a buch of blinky red/blue lights last night on the parker strip on Ca side by the rock pile. 8:30ish or so.
Didnt look good with a bunch of land based and water based emergency vehicles and people[emoji20] [emoji20]
.
Anyone got any info on that one?

I believe there is a thread with a video of it, if it's the same one

 

[Ziggy]

I believe there is a thread with a video of it, if it's the same one

Just found it...sad. Hope the girl will be ok.

 

[cicchetti_24]

Just found it...sad. Hope the girl will be ok.

Yea that's terrible

 

[wallnutz]

Many of you are starting to use GoPro on your boats. If you provide me with video of any vessel including PWCs and kayaks violating the nav rules and creating an unsafe condition, I will pursue it if I can identify the vessel. The lack of hull numbers on kayaks makes those difficult, but some of the big groups may be tracked down through the three companies renting them locally. IMO the state should consider registering paddlecraft as well as motorboats- some states do and it generates a little money but it also seems fair to treat all boats the same and the identification issue is important to me. I also favor mandatory boater education for all (again personal opinion not agency policy) and have dismissed certain tickets for people who took the online class. One poster commented that mandating these will not end all stupid behavior on the river, and I agree. But complete elimination of hazards is rarely the goal of public safety laws for that very reason. The goal is a REDUCTION in unsafe behavior much like in medicine where a doctor would be thrilled to get a new drug which cures cancer in only half the patients. Final sure to be controversial topic- many of us have seen accidents in this area at the mouth of the river. FWS obviously got an earful over the no wake zone they proposed along the Arizona shoreline here and I have privately suggested redrawing that no wake to EXCLUDE the center channel most of us use to enter the river. Here is a thought that goes in the exact opposite direction. What about two no wake lanes to enter and exit the river? Outbound traffic exclusively uses the Havasu Marine Association's dredged no wake while inbound traffic exclusively uses a new no wake zone contouring around the island and into center channel (the yellow/green route identified in a post several days ago). There is a lot of unsafe crossing which occurs here, not to mention the antics of PWCs and others around motorboats constrained to a relatively narrow channel. Would a 200 yard no wake save lives and be worth a few minute delay in reaching PC? I know you guys hate the Feds doing anything so perhaps an initiative like this would be more palatable if (like the dredged channel and the I40 no wake zones) it came from you, the Havasu Marine Association, or Arizona Game and Fish. Try not to freak out on me guys- I'm just thinking aloud about problems you identified in this post. I'm offering the same sort of personal ideas you guys kick around and not trying to roll out any FWS agenda. Let the ball busting begin.

So did I just read that if I send you a video that shows somebody driving recklessly, you would pursue them? How does that work if it's not your agency's vidoe? I know with a little creative video, l can make it look like someone is driving illegally. Really think that is an overstep of our rights. But might be a good way to get some ass holes off the water.:eek

 

[milkmoney]

Milkman, you and others were discussing unsafe operating by PWCs which was the starting point for my post. It was convenient to hit reply to post- nothing more.

Ok. My post was about all types of unsafe water craft and not jus PWC's and why is only idiots driving pwc when there are idiots driving anything anymore.

The world is full of idiots on and off the water.

Carry on. I will jus stay out as stated in other thread. [emoji106][emoji202]

 

[AzGeo]

operators of other watercraft also do all kinds of stupid and unwittingly dangerous maneuvers .

State or federal 'operator's licenses' are a great way to punish those who are already responsible boaters, yet still allow 'part timers and renters' to get away with the minimal amount of knowledge .

Usually a 10 minute 'talk' about rental boat/ski operation and lake rules, is all they ever get . Often renters are the ones who need THE MOST instruction and knowledge, since they boat sporadically, rather than continuously .

A simple method of 'raising our boat operator standards' would be to work with boat insurance companies, having a two tiered pricing system . One price level for those who do not have a current 'boating safety class' certificate, on file . The other 'level' would require a new certificate every two years . Like auto insurance, this could be a 'sliding scale' that would reduce prices with each two years of current certificate, and no claims . These classes should be offered 'on line', so everyone, no matter what their work schedule can participate .

For the 'mom and pop' that rent a boat every year at the lake, they could take the 'on line class' for boat renters, each year just before their vacation, and have the current knowledge for their lake .

In this way those who have taken the courses, have no excuse of 'I didn't know', and should not be a hazard to navigation for themselves or anyone else .

This would leave the LEOs to patrol and site those who 'don't give a damn', and boat in that kind of manner .

I fear that many boaters are just becoming 'lazy or complacent' and don't realize the differences between boating and driving a car . Boats don't have airbags, anti-lock brakes, nor even seat belts, so what should I know about the differences in going 70 MPH in my car or boat in traffic ?

Even without a safety course you should know that 'there are no lines on the water for lanes, and everyone goes in all directions as they please' .

As far as 'mandatory vests and speed limits', I suggest you keep those 'ideas' in California, along with your homeless filled sanctuary cities, and your licensed uninsured illegals ............

 

[2Driver]

LOL right now up by the dam there are 4 boats flying the orange ski flags and no one even in the water let alone skiing

 

[milkmoney]

LOL right now up by the dam there are 4 boats flying the orange ski flags and no one even in the water let alone skiing

Again. Idiots everywhere no matter what they are driving.[emoji202]

 

[SOCALCRICKETT]

With the mouth of the gorge there seems to be common denominators. To this day we (as a community) are aware of a couple accidents involving shallow water and rapid evasive manuvers. My question is this, before to shut down the area or propose no wake restrictions, why don't we outline the shallow areas with the black and white markers like the Arizona side has done. That way when the guy with his machine on plane and at speed can have a better idea of the deep areas without having to make a rapid maneuver at last minute. Personally if I'm at speed and see a marker I give myself plenty of room between the marker and "open water." Boats don't handle like cars and require much more time to react.

 

[SOCALCRICKETT]

Not to mention the maintenence cost of a floating marker is minimal at worst

 

[shueman]

Not to mention the maintenence cost of a floating marker is minimal at worst

Not according to Boat Cop ...

 

[SOCALCRICKETT]

I thought that was if it was lighted

 

[HEY YOU]

Not according to Boat Cop ...

Shue can you tell if that is a Daytona or not in the picture's, I'm more concerned about the people and the boat then all this other B.S.

 

[Ballyhoo]

So did I just read that if I send you a video that shows somebody driving recklessly, you would pursue them? How does that work if it's not your agency's vidoe? I know with a little creative video, l can make it look like someone is driving illegally. Really think that is an overstep of our rights. But might be a good way to get some ass holes off the water.:eek

People give police video/ surveillance video all day long. The videos have usually captured some type of suspicious or criminal activity. The police then will take a look and possibly start an investigation. The video would eventually need to be authenticated. None of these types of videos trample any of our rights.

 

[Advantage 1]

I took the 8 hr boating safety course put on by AZGFD to get an insurance discount. I have to tell you I learned a lot about navigation rules and a lot of other stuff. At the end of the day the knowledge gained was far more beneficial than the insurance discount. I would be a proponent of a mandatory boating safety course. I realize this disrupts the rental boat industry but they probably need it the most.

x2

I took the course on-line last December. Since the boat is registered to both me and wife, wife needs to take the course for the discount to apply... but like you said, getting the education outweighs the few $$ saved with my insurance.

 

[Stainless]

x2

I took the course on-line last December. Since the boat is registered to both me and wife, wife needs to take the course for the discount to apply... but like you said, getting the education outweighs the few $$ saved with my insurance.

I haven't boated in the last couple years in my own boat and will gladly take it again if I start doing so. This is probably the most important thing I got out of the course.

 

[Advantage 1]

I haven't boated in the last couple years in my own boat and will gladly take it again if I start doing so. This is probably the most important thing I got out of the course.

Yup. Watched and re-watched those videos. The overtake / stand on vessel chapter was great! But I will admit, I did not pay too much attention on how to approach locks

 

[SRice]

So did I just read that if I send you a video that shows somebody driving recklessly, you would pursue them? How does that work if it's not your agency's vidoe? I know with a little creative video, l can make it look like someone is driving illegally. Really think that is an overstep of our rights. But might be a good way to get some ass holes off the water.:eek

Every case is going to be unique and have its own facts, but I have successfully used photos from other people to make cases in the past. Generally I would need the hull number and clear video evidence of the violation or possibly a sworn statement from you in lieu of video. If you also have a clear photo of the operator, that would obviously be very helpful. I also need to know exactly where it occurred to confirm it is in my jurisdiction (basically the river with a little on the lake and a little above I40). If there is a violation and a suspect, I would call and interview them and let them know I have photos documenting the violation. If they admit to it, then I probably have a very strong case. If not, I'd have to carefully weigh and try to substantiate what you provided. If it went to court, you might need to be willing to testify depending on what other evidence exists. If down the road you decided you were not willing to testify, the likely outcome is a dismissal of the original citation, but generally speaking few of cases actually go to court- most folks look at the evidence against them and they accept the government's plea offer. Sometimes there simply is not enough to go forward, but if I get reports of violations from the public I make an even greater effort to make the case than if I originated it myself. My work email is [email protected] if you'd like to discuss further. Thanks.

 

[Advantage 1]

I think all of that is really smart, though it probably needs more than five minutes. Tim Baumgarten in AZGFD might be a good person to reach out to with a suggestion like that. I could easily see them putting together a video like that and strongly encouraging rentals to use it, even if Legislature did not mandate. Personally, I'd guess a rental company would also like to be able to say "We gave them the State's educational video so that gives us some protection from liability." And might adopt happily.

I have left several messages and emails for both Tim Baumgarten & David Rigo... several months ago. Never received a call or an email from either of them. A La Paz County Sheriff gave me their info. I would love to get the latest and greatest AZ boating statistics and reports. To me, anyway, the reports are informative. They used to be published, but the last one I could dig up was from 2011.

If you know these guys or have a better way to retrieve from AZGFD, I am all ears.

Thanks,

Joe